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ken2400
Last reply · posted in Over the Air Television By RabbitEars.Info
I have a number of 18" dishs setting around and was wondering if it was worth trying to convert one or more into a UHF HD antenna?

Should I look for a 30+" instead?
Should I just use a large corner UHF antenna?

Also I have a large UHF/VHF antenna. What would cutting off the VHF do for the signal?

Thanks
25 Replies · 33450 views
navychop
What a shame Channel Master has dropped all their larger antennas. I can't even buy another like what's on my roof.

I'm tempted to buy a used 4251 for our RV.
harshness
What a shame Channel Master has dropped all their larger antennas. I can't even buy another like what's on my roof.
Channel Master still shows the Advantage line on their website.

Deep Fringe Advantage Digital HDTV Outdoor TV Antenna-Channel Master CM 3020 (CM3020)
navychop
More BS?

I was referring to physical size.
harshness
I was referring to physical size.
You speak as if greater wind drag, huge turning circle and high rotational mass are desirable in a TV antenna.

If the specifications (other than size and weight) aren't more favorable, what's the point? The Crossfire was 18" longer, presented almost 50% more wind load, weighed more than twice as much yet had comparable numbers for VHF gain and inferior numbers for UHF gain versus the Advantage 100.
(((Garyd)))
Looks like what I have
D
I took an old C-band parabolic and repurposed it for terrestrial TV. Doesn't that sound like fun?

So, the first thing you have to realize is that the 10' C-band antennas are pretty solid, heavy and with a fair degree of wind resistance. As the reflecting surface is typically expanded metal with 2 mm perforations, this thing is going to present quite a wind load. Even after removing all the C-band electronics and unnecessary aiming motor, the parabolic and its mounting structure is probably 150 lbs...so this is not going up on a mast.

Photos can't seem to be posted here, sorry.

What it does get mounted on is 3" galvanized steel, and for obvious reasons that pipe needs to be at least 5' out of the ground. In my case, I went for 7 feet out of the ground...but that means 5' in the ground, surrounded by at least 300 lbs of concrete. Unless you have a really big augur, it's hard to do much more than that. Luckily, the ground drops off significantly from where the pole is, so it's effectively maybe 12' AGL.

Once the dish is mounted, configuring the antenna element is pretty straightforward. I live in an area with almost no signals in any direction, so I don't need a reflector behind the antenna element: it's just a matter of making the element (bow-tie) the right size and in the focus of the dish.

According to theory, the bow-tie is of infinite size...and I'd like to get down to to channel 7 so the wavelength is almost 2 meters. But the focus of the dish is probably less than a meter across, so there's not going to be any advantage to an bow-tie even that big. My first pass is with bow-tie wires 16" long. (I will experiment with solid bow tie and other variations in a week or so.) Through experimentation and measurement, I find the best distance for the bow-tie element and we're off to the races.

My main signal challenges are about 100 miles away, and my baseline for comparison metrics is a pair of yagis, with the bottom one about 12' AGL actual...but due to drop off of ground level effectively 17' AGL. According to the models, I shouldn't be getting much of anything...but with the stacked yagis and a nice preamp most of the time I get about 75 virtual channels (from about 20 transmitters). The new dish with a preamp gets nearly all the channels the same way, and the first pass of spectrum analysis (using the Nuts about Nets USB-based system on a PC) shows nearly identical signal strength. The dish is more directional than the Yagis (no surprise) but not as super-directional as I was worried about.

So now: how do I make the bow-tie outperform the Yagis? They are signficantly farther off the ground, which gives them a big gain advantage (I'm guessing 6 dB)...but the "collecting surface" of the dish should give the bow-tie even more than that.

The answers come in the next post...
D
So with COVID-19 I've had time on my hands at home and did a bunch of comparative measurements so that I could avoid doing all the chores my wife wants. Used Nuts About Nets spectrum analyzer to compare--the only variation in the configuration was the final antenna.

Note that this would have to be called deep-fringe conditions--the nearest real station is 75 miles away and some of the stuff I'm shooting for is 125 miles away. Due to atmospherics, signal strength varies significantly during the day, so I always did my measurements within the same hour and comparable weather conditions.

Baseline antenna was using thin copper "whiskers". They are long because (1) I'm trying to get some VHF channels and (2) from what I read, making them longer doesn't significantly hurt the UHF.

Modified the whiskers to make them solid triangular pieces. Within the variability of the signal/atmospheric effects, no measurable difference.

Put a reflector screen behind the active elements. No appreciable difference.

Modified the whiskers and made "stacked" dipoles. Maybe 1 dB difference.

Took a Channel Master 4228 HD antenna and used that as the active antenna (facing in toward the dish). Depending on its location in the dish focal plane and the frequency, got up to 5 dB of gain. The 4228 HD can be modded to improve its gain by another 3 dB (there are a couple of sites that describe how to do this)--I didn't make those mods, but I'll believe the claims.

But---the advantage of the parabolic--collecting a huge amount of signal--is fighting the disadvantage of "no altitude". And the measurements showed that in my case, it's a losing battle.

I took the Channel Master and raised it about 15 feed higher than the parabolic--and got more signal at every channel from its naked 8-bay bowtie at that altitude. Sigh.

Then I did a comparison of the Channel Master versus a pair of stacked broadband Yagis (AntennaCraft) and got surprising news: at almost every frequency, the Yagis beat the Channel Master. Obviously in VHF (actual channels 7, 8, and 11) there was no contest...but even in high UHF the Yagis were providing more signal, or were within a dB or two of the Channel Master.

So in this deep-fringe reception area, the lessons are pretty clear (even if somewhat counter-intuitive):
  1. Altitude trumps everything else (duh)
  2. If you need VHF channels, a Yagi or two is in your future
  3. The 10-foot parabolic didn't give that much of a gain advantage at TV frequencies (this was a surprise to me)
  4. Modifying the active elements of the antenna didn't make as much of a difference as I'd expect.
  5. I'm glad I ordered the Channel Master via Amazon, as they allowed me to return it

Although this has turned out to be a wild-goose chase (I'm back with the Yagis I started with), hopefully my experience will persuade some of you to not go down this path unless you have a really strong tower to put your 10-foot, 150 pound parabolic on.
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Scott Greczkowski
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne


Get it?


An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....
68624 Replies · 2678530 views
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dishstaller
Owner Of a Lonely Heart - Yes
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long_time_Dish
Lonely Street - Kansas
dishstaller
Lonely is the Night - Billy Squier
long_time_Dish
Lonely People - America
H
PEOPLE Are Strange-The Doors
JSheridan
Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in DISH Network Support Forum
I know HipKat said that they were working on conversions but we got the official news yesterday right from Dish that starting next month all DMA's will be on the western arc, and all customers will be assigned to that. That's gonna mean a lot of customers around here aren't gonna get Dish unless there are exceptions. Too many mountains and trees.
171 Replies · 4765 views
MikeD-C05
I don't know why DISH doesn't just start a streaming version of DISH and then if you can't see the western arc you go with streaming versions and then they could keep customers if they had good internet speeds. I mean Sling TV could be changed to Streaming DISH TV if they wanted since both companies are under Echostar. Then you would still be able to use your ota antenna with Air TV devices like I do with Air TV Anywhere with 4 ota tuners.
Scott Greczkowski
I don't know why DISH doesn't just start a streaming version of DISH
I have the same wish.
S
Even if you are broadcasting old SD-only shows, I would think advertisers would still want their commercials to look good.
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Jimbo
Even if you are broadcasting old SD-only shows, I would think advertisers would still want their commercials to look good.
Advertisers on SD channels are probably Far and Few, very hard to find, they have very few viewers to watch them.
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Mister B
Advertisers on SD channels are probably Far and Few, very hard to find, they have very few viewers to watch them.
I watch mostly SD channels (H&I, Start and ION, etc.). There are plenty of advertisers, this time of the year it is mostly Medicare Advantage plans, auto extended warranties and the occasional walk-in-tub. They know who is watching.
S
I watch mostly SD channels (H&I, Start and ION, etc.). There are plenty of advertisers, this time of the year it is mostly Medicare Advantage plans, auto extended warranties and the occasional walk-in-tub. They know who is watching.
can't forget the little blue m&m's
charlesrshell
can't forget the little blue m&m's
That's what my wife calls my Viagra!!
B
I have the same wish.
Why?
A lot of people do not have fast internet.
That is why they use satellite
NYDutch
Why?
A lot of people do not have fast internet.
That is why they use satellite
DISH will happily sell them a Starlink system and service.
T
Why didn't Charlie end up launching starlink
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Foxbat
Why didn't Charlie end up launching starlink
Because he didn't have a fleet of reusable rockets. Starlink works because SpaceX is able to launch hundreds (thousands?) of their Starlink satellites for what a single geostationary Internet satellite costs to build and launch on a disposable launcher.
T
But how is it reusable if it's disposable
S
That's what my wife calls my Viagra!!
My gf is 29 years younger than me :shh
dishstaller
Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
RIP dude. Always liked his music. He was 83


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH5Arbm47IQ
1 Replies · 22 views
dishstaller
Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter
· posted in The Chit Chat Club
This video was put up shortly after I was able to take my family out to Yosemite in 2011. No AI.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6-2fVsFV8E
0 Replies · 13 views
dishstaller
Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
Love this guy's channel. Looks like Walmart has thrown in the towel when it comes to conventional car batteries.

I bought a new AGM battery from Walmart about a year ago, it is already needing replacing. I thought about just buying a regular battery but from what I've read, that might not be a smart move. Might check my Forscan program and see if I can change the battery type from AGM.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awe7kY5nvdU
18 Replies · 199 views
harshness
When you need a battery, you need a battery.

If you can wait, new technologies are on the not-too-distant horizon.

You're probably doing something wrong if you're only getting a year out of an AGM battery. Heat and infrequent charging both significantly reduce lifetime.
dishstaller
You're probably doing something wrong if you're only getting a year out of an AGM battery. Heat and infrequent charging both significantly reduce lifetime.
Huh? How can I be doing something wrong.....I took out the original battery, that was 6 yrs old and put in a new one.....kinda hard to screw that up. I figure it was just a bad battery....it happens.


The biggest takeaway I got from this video was the Walmart batteries only had something like 85% of battery life left even though they were brand NEW. The ones from O'Reilly all tested 100% of life left.
Jimbo
Huh? How can I be doing something wrong.....I took out the original battery, that was 6 yrs old and put in a new one.....kinda hard to screw that up. I figure it was just a bad battery....it happens.


The biggest takeaway I got from this video was the Walmart batteries only had something like 85% of battery life left even though they were brand NEW. The ones from O'Reilly all tested 100% of life left.
And the Walmart ones mostly had very little warranty.

My last AGM (using now) I got from O Rielly's, its the Super Start ... I got the Platnium, they had several to choose from.
T
He sounds like he's trying to sell me a pocket hose.

I just had to replace a car battery this week and thought I'd look into LiFePo4. Amazon has plenty of them, but all have top posts and only one 'also' has side connections (Group 75).Then I read that they're really lousy in the cold. So, an AGM, but again, almost nothing with side terminals instead of top. In researching that, I read that most mfrs in recent years have dropped side terminals and gone back to the old top posts, which is surprising to me since those are more corrosion-prone, cause the battery to need more space and are generally more hazardous. Finally I just threw up my hands and bought a regular lead-acid at Sam's Club. They had a Group 75 "Duracell" with side terminals only. It was virtually the only such battery with side posts on their shelves
arlo
Had a Die Hard in my folks cellar for over 6 years. Pulled it out, slapped it on a charger for a day. Put it in my 'Cuda and drove it around for a week of my vacation. Next year, the same. But my dad kept it topped off for me.It was a mid 80's battery in early 1990.

Flooded acid batteries like a float voltage of around 13.5-13.8 voltage.
AGM needs a float of 14.2 volts. So if you slap an AGM in where a flooded was. It never gets a full charge.
"Why do they die so fast?" Question answered. There are folks who sell voltage regulators for alternators that are designed to boost float voltage for AGM batteries.
The other way around? Flooded will gas-off a little at 14.2 volts. But seems to tolerate it pretty good.

Lithium car/bike/atv batteries. After 3 batteries in my Harley. The OEM flooded and two AGM's (before the 14.2 volt float requirement to let them live was learned). I bought a lithium for it. 4 year, no gripe warranty after having it tested by an approved store.
The thing started like Thor himself sent a bolt from the sky. Except......try to start it around freezing? Nope. Needed a heating pad.
And I usually like to park it around events in the evening with the parking light on. Looks cool like that.
We could traipse around for a few hours no worries. Hop on, fire it up, and go putt around.
Lithium? A Dakota Lithium at least. The BMS shuts it right down if it discharges below <something>.
Come back. Parking lights off. Won't start. And you know the rest. But it lasted 6 years. A lot better than 'new every two'. And the fact that powersports batteries are warranted for six, maybe nine months. Ludicrous.

I called Noco. Asked all of the right questions. Great warranty. Save some bucks ordering directly, faster service that the wally world alternative.
They addressed (or claimed over the phone) that the shut down was addressed. Sure. The BMS keeps it form being damaged. But if it is shut down because it does become low. Shut down any load (key on, parking or headlights left on) for 10-15 minutes and you get a second try to start your rig. Not a bad thing if it really works. Right?!

Exide, Interstate? Be very afraid. They ain't what they used to be. In Florida my '70 Cutlass had an Interstate (early 90') that lasted 6 years until it dropped its plates at an intersection and boiled over. In Florida, mind you. The last Interstate.....done in 2. Guys down there would suck out the acid and put water in shortly before the warranty ran out. Make it to the auto parts, get them tested. And get a new one pro rated. No more pro rating.
You can't beat an Odyssey. Napa, AC Deco (the better ones). Yup.
The mom and pop Car Quest only sells Die Hard. For a reason, the old man says. So they convinced that a Die HArd Platinum was the hot ticket for me. l will see. Stand by!

You can't cut Mr. Project Farm down. He does great tests of all sorts of things. Not sponsored and pressured to slap a little sugar on his comparisons and reviews. Compared to the Brits and Aussies with their constant overzealous and same sounding (Dave from EEVblog) rant. I like P-Farm a lot. Of course I like AvE (Boltr) too.
Reminds me to beware when wearing shorts around the garage vice.


Opinions may vary.
harshness
And the Walmart ones mostly had very little warranty.
The days of the 84-month warranty appear long gone, regardless of brand or where you acquired it. Warranties tend to be shorter, with much greater dependence on quick prorating.

The big problem for lead-acid batteries (whether flooded or AGM) is that the US no longer produces lead (the last smelter closed in 2013) and must import it.

Recycling covers a good chunk of the need (~70%), but it isn't free.
EarDemon
I've always got regular OEM Ford Motorcraft batteries from the dealership and have never really had an issue. On my old Lincoln Aviator (the SUV from the early 00s, not the CUV of today), I had some phantom drain and went though a few batteries, but that was an anomaly and with the standard warranty I got free replacements. Taking the Aviator out of the picture, I've bought two batteries in my 24 years of driving. One battery replacement in my Mountaineer, one in my Navigator. But I probably would have had another one had I kept it around longer. Didn't have the Bronco long enough, and so far still on the factory battery for my Expedition.

I run more than the average bear. Dash cam, two radar detectors (yes, I'm aware that can be problematic when using simultaneously), laser jammers and a police scanner. I'm in Buffalo, 90 degree summers and 0 degree winters. Once in a while in the dead of winter I'll get an alert from the Ford app saying remote features have been disabled to conserve battery, but it starts right up.
dishstaller
I run more than the average bear. Dash cam, two radar detectors (yes, I'm aware that can be problematic when using simultaneously), laser jammers and a police scanner.
warrior.webp
Ramy
Supporting Founder
Last reply · posted in The Sports Section
Really excited for this season with Kentucky having a new coach and some really exciting recruits. Probably won't last long, but here's hoping this season is great.
168 Replies · 2395 views
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Jimbo
AI Overview


College Football Playoff bracket, schedule, scores, rankings ...

The 2025–26 College Football Playoff concluded with the Indiana Hoosiers winning the national championship by defeating the Miami Hurricanes 27–21. [1, 2, 3]

Playoff Results Summary
The 12-team playoff bracket featured the following key results across each round: [1]
    • First Round: Alabama defeated Oklahoma (34–24), Miami (Fla.) beat Texas A&M (10–3), Ole Miss topped Tulane (41–10), and Oregon defeated James Madison (51–34) at higher-seeded campus sites.
    • Quarterfinals: Miami (Fla.) upset Ohio State (24–14), Oregon shut out Texas Tech (23–0), top-ranked Indiana rolled past Alabama (38–3), and Ole Miss edged Georgia (39–34) across the New Year's Six bowls.
    • Semifinals: Miami (Fla.) advanced past Ole Miss (31–27) in the Peach Bowl, while Indiana dominant-defeated Oregon (56–22) in the Fiesta Bowl.
    • National Championship: Indiana secured the title with a 27–21 victory over Miami (Fla.) at Hard Rock Stadium. [1, 2, 3, 4]
Unfortunately, there was not rankings listed in this summary
AZ.
AZ.
And no teams deserve a bye! Injuries are the largest part of the game that you cant practice for them. Any team can suffer the worst injury at any position on any play. No favorites.
Jimbo
And no teams deserve a bye! Injuries are the largest part of the game that you cant practice for them. Any team can suffer the worst injury at any position on any play. No favorites.
I think they are actually discussing the Top 8 get a Bye this time, if they go to 24.
Then again, I heard something about Play in games for the 16-24 teams ...

Nothing is official yet, so lots of moving parts ...

Can't wait, lets do 24, 3 years later they will want 32 :sick
Y
And no teams deserve a bye! Injuries are the largest part of the game that you cant practice for them. Any team can suffer the worst injury at any position on any play. No favorites.
While the bye can help the top four teams and those the Cartels would like to protect in the playoff, I think the bye is also about making the Cartel championships mean something. One problem with a playoff is it does diminish the conference title a bit.
Jimbo
While the bye can help the top four teams and those the Cartels would like to protect in the playoff, I think the bye is also about making the Cartel championships mean something. One problem with a playoff is it does diminish the conference title a bit.
Once the 24 gets here, there won't be anymore Conference Championships .... or so they say.

Oh what the hell, we really don't need Conferences anymore either ...:coco:(
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dishstaller
Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter
· posted in The Chit Chat Club
0 Replies · 30 views
osu1991
Pub Member / Supporter
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
4 Replies · 69 views
Bobby
Rest in peace. Together again with Spock, Doc, Uhura, and Scotty...
long_time_Dish
Rest in peace, Checkov, and Bester too...
FTA4PA
Rest In Peace 😢
Foxbat
Rest in Peace…