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EricBskiVT

Last reply Jun 13, 2008 · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

Analyst: Dish could lose billions

Not to start a panic, but surprised this Swanni story hasn't posted here yet:
Analyst: TiVo Could Cost Dish Network Billions
The official says the DVR patent lawsuit could be a crippler.
By Swanni
Washington, D.C. (June 4, 2008) -- Dish Network might lose billions of dollars over its DVR patent dispute with TiVo -- and lose subscribers as well.

That's the conclusion of a new report from Wall Street analyst Craig Moffett, as reported by Multichannel News.

TiVo sued Dish Network in 2004 for DVR patent infringement and a Texas jury in April 2006 found in TiVo's favor. (The lawsuit affects both SD and HD DVRs.)

The verdict has since been tied up in appeals court, but TiVo claims that Dish Network now owes it approximately $100 million in damages. Additionally, TiVo says Dish must disable all current HD and SD DVRs because of the patent infringement.

Dish filed suit last week in a Delaware court seeking to prove that its new DVR software does not infringe TiVo's patents. But the Texas court has scheduled a September 4 hearing on TiVo's call for a contempt citation against the satcaster.

"If Dish loses a current round of contempt litigation related to their alleged 'work around,' then the costs to Dish of disabling DVRs, settling with TiVo, or—worst of all—potentially engaging in a bidding war for the right to continue offering DVRs at all, could be in a worst case scenario in the billions… far higher than currently contemplated," Moffett wrote in a research report issued yesterday, according to Multichannel News.

Moffett said investors have speculated that Dish will eventually concede and pay TiVo $1 per month, per subscriber as a DVR licensing fee.

But the analyst says a contempt order could ruin even that possibility.

"Even the option of settling the case for just $1 per month per subscriber may well have passed," Moffett wrote.

The analyst added that Dish will likely lose roughly $1.6 billion if it's ordered to disable its DVRs -- and possibly thousands of subscribers upset with losing their favorite recording devices.

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navychop

Jun 4, 2008

Let us get real. No court is going to order Dish out of business. And that is the almost inevitable result of ordering all DVRs turned off. Any judge that did so would see a stay issued almost overnight. Might even get to the Supreme Court, but I doubt that very much. I also doubt that the feds would stand by and let it happen.

The press, especially certain parts of it, have a vested interest in stirring up excitement. Warranted or not. Sure, it could happen. And we could also be hit by a comet tomorrow.

costanzas_wallet

Jun 4, 2008

I lol at the thought of Dish just buying Tivo rather than paying the fines.
Thats gangster.

DishSubLA

Jun 5, 2008

costanzas_wallet said:
I lol at the thought of Dish just buying Tivo rather than paying the fines.
Thats gangster.

Then as the new owner of Tivo, Ergan can go after all his competitors using Tivo's patents. Crazier things have happened in business. Even ol' Rupert Murdoch bought a company that brought a suit against one of Murdoch's companies just to avoid the whole problem. It is not just the award of damages--not a fine--that is at stake. It is Dish forever having to pay Tivo a royalty. The last thing he needs now is an increase in the DVR fee even if his is by far the lowest of virtually any other provider.

Spize

Jun 12, 2008

navychop said:
Let us get real. No court is going to order Dish out of business. And that is the almost inevitable result of ordering all DVRs turned off. Any judge that did so would see a stay issued almost overnight. Might even get to the Supreme Court, but I doubt that very much. I also doubt that the feds would stand by and let it happen.

The press, especially certain parts of it, have a vested interest in stirring up excitement. Warranted or not. Sure, it could happen. And we could also be hit by a comet tomorrow.

You could not be more wrong. If a court finds that Dish is continuing to violate Tivo's patents they absolutely can and will order the DVR shutdown(if they find Dish guilty), regardless of if it kills Dish.

That is the point of patent law, if I steal your concept and build a business with it the court wouldn't be the one killing my business, my violation did.

No judge will say, yes Dish cost Tivo a lot of money, but since they made so much money doing it I won't stop them... no, If Tivo is the victim they will do what is right by the patent holder regardless of the patent violator's business.

navychop

Jun 12, 2008

Spize said:
You could not be more wrong. If a court finds that Dish is continuing to violate Tivo's patents they absolutely can and will order the DVR shutdown(if they find Dish guilty), regardless of if it kills Dish.

Nope. The remedy must be reasonable. Forcing the dissolution of a large business like that is way outsize to the offense. Simply not going to happen. "Wishing" otherwise is just that, "wishing." Don't let your dislike of Dish cloud your judgement.

philhu

Jun 12, 2008

navychop said:
Nope. The remedy must be reasonable. Forcing the dissolution of a large business like that is way outsize to the offense. Simply not going to happen. "Wishing" otherwise is just that, "wishing." Don't let your dislike of Dish cloud your judgement.

No, what is reasonable is making Dish stop all DVR activities, period, like they shut down the distant locals on Dish, even though it caused alot of people to go to DirecTV.

The court won't order them closed, just crippled, with no DVR.

Cantonsurroundsound

Jun 12, 2008

I hope dish looses and is forced to pay a fortune! Charlie has shown his true colors by dropping VOOM HD and he record of being in so many lawsuits seems to match their behavior. What comes around goes around; I hope they loose their shirts to TIVO! Their treatment of VOOM HD had made me plan on scheduling Directv instead and I can not see why you want to defend a company that treats its partners and customers like crap!

jacmyoung

Jun 13, 2008

philhu said:
No, what is reasonable is making Dish stop all DVR activities, period, like they shut down the distant locals on Dish, even though it caused alot of people to go to DirecTV.

The court won't order them closed, just crippled, with no DVR.

First off the shut down of the distants did not cause a lot of people to leave DISH and go to DirecTV.

Secondly, DISH will not turn off the DVRs, because they have the new DVR software, the law clearly states what DISH is doing now is acceptable, Tivo will have to start a new suit to find the new software still infringe, if it indeed still infringes.

Slamminc11

Jun 13, 2008

Cantonsurroundsound said:
I hope dish looses and is forced to pay a fortune! Charlie has shown his true colors by dropping VOOM HD and he record of being in so many lawsuits seems to match their behavior. What comes around goes around; I hope they loose their shirts to TIVO! Their treatment of VOOM HD had made me plan on scheduling Directv instead and I can not see why you want to defend a company that treats its partners and customers like crap!

Your drivel is getting old.

We all get it. you hate dish, so get direct (where you also won't see voom btw) and go away already.

Curtis0620

Jun 13, 2008

jacmyoung said:
First off the shut down of the distants did not cause a lot of people to leave DISH and go to DirecTV.

Secondly, DISH will not turn off the DVRs, because they have the new DVR software, the law clearly states what DISH is doing now is acceptable, Tivo will have to start a new suit to find the new software still infringe, if it indeed still infringes.

Wrong, DISH must prove their software no longer infringes, not TiVo.

Hall

Jun 13, 2008

Curtis0620 said:
Wrong, DISH must prove their software no longer infringes, not TiVo.

Is patent law different ? I thought "innocent until proven guilty" was the rule, i.e. Dish doesn't have to do anything... TiVo has to prove that Dish is guilty; Dish doesn't have to prove their innocence.

RVD420

Jun 13, 2008

DishSubLA said:
Even ol' Rupert Murdoch bought a company that brought a suit against one of Murdoch's companies just to avoid the whole problem.

That was Rupe buying Canal+ after Canal+ sued NDS (owned by Rupe) for breaking the smartcard security on the Canal+ access cards.

riffjim4069

Jun 13, 2008

hall said:
Is patent law different ? I thought "innocent until proven guilty" was the rule, i.e. Dish doesn't have to do anything... TiVo has to prove that Dish is guilty; Dish doesn't have to prove their innocence.

The court order was for Dish Network to turn off DVR functionallity...merely stating they changed a few lines of code and saying the DVRs no longer infringe TiVo's patents is in violation of the plain text lauguage contained in the order. E* has already been proven guilty, so the burdon is on them to prove they and their DVRs are not in contempt.

navychop

Jun 13, 2008

Slamminc11 said:
Your drivel is getting old. We all get it. you hate dish, so get direct (where you also won't see voom btw) and go away already.

:up:up:up

Curtis0620

Jun 13, 2008

hall said:
Is patent law different ? I thought "innocent until proven guilty" was the rule, i.e. Dish doesn't have to do anything... TiVo has to prove that Dish is guilty; Dish doesn't have to prove their innocence.

They have been proven guilty, thus the injunction.

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Scott Greczkowski

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge

Last reply 9 minutes ago · posted in SiriusXM Satellite Radio

SiriusXM announces 25 Holiday Channels for 2026

Some of the channels start next week.

SiriusXM Delivers the Soundtrack to the Holidays with Its Festive Lineup of 25 Handcrafted Seasonal Music Channels

Lineup features channels produced and presented by celebrated personalities and iconic brands, including Jimmy Fallon, Hallmark,…...

investor.siriusxm.com

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Reactions: comfortably_numb

comfortably_numb

41 minutes ago

My favorite is probably Holiday Pops.

TRG

36 minutes ago

It's not even Halloween yet.

Scott Greczkowski

9 minutes ago

I like the Jimmy Fallon channel. This will be its third year. I like that it's all fresh each year. Also fun when he pops on live from time to time.

dishstaller

Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter

Last reply 16 minutes ago · posted in The Chit Chat Club

At least 64 dead in Spanish passenger train collision

Terrible tragedy. You would think that they would have safe guards in place that would prevent something like this from happening. I guess if you are going to ride in a passenger train it might be best to get a car near the rear.

At Least 64 Dead After Two High-Speed Trains Collide In Spain | ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

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Jimbo

16 minutes ago

dishstaller said:
Terrible tragedy. You would think that they would have safe guards in place that would prevent something like this from happening. I guess if you are going to ride in a passenger train it might be best to get a car near the rear.

At Least 64 Dead After Two High-Speed Trains Collide In Spain | ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

They will have to look at the switching sections to determine WHY 2 trains were on the same track ... at the same time.

Scott Greczkowski

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge

Last reply 20 minutes ago · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Song Name Game Part 3!

Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne

Get it?

An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....

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gms49ers

Today at 9:28 AM

Show Don't Tell - Rush

harshness

Today at 9:54 AM

Show and Tell - Al Wilson

sdfntx

Today at 10:24 AM

On with the Show - The Rolling Stones

gms49ers

59 minutes ago

The Show Must Go On - Pink Floyd

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Bobby

20 minutes ago

If Love Must Go - Dobie Gray

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osu1991

Pub Member / Supporter

Last reply Today at 10:09 AM · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Susan Saint James, Emmy-Winning Star of 'Kate & Allie' and 'McMillan & Wife,' Dies at 80

Susan Saint James, Emmy-Winning Star of ‘Kate & Allie’ and ‘McMillan & Wife,’ Dies at 80

Susan Saint James, the Emmy-winning actress who starred in "Kate & Allie," died Monday after being diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. She was 80.

variety.com

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Bobby

Yesterday at 5:01 PM

Rest in peace.

sdfntx

Yesterday at 7:39 PM

Sorry to hear this. R.I.P.

FTA4PA

Yesterday at 8:53 PM

R.I.P.

dishstaller

Today at 10:09 AM

My Mom was a huge McMillan & Wife fan.

RIP

TRG

Pub Member / Supporter

Last reply Today at 10:07 AM · posted in Local Radio Discussion

House Passes AM Radio For Every Vehicle Act

House Passes AM Radio For Every Vehicle Act

(Washington, DC) - The U.S. House has passed the AM Radio for Every Vehicle Act, marking a major step forward for broadcasters and listeners who have pushed to keep AM radio available in new cars and

wabcradio.com

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dishdude

Sep 18, 2026

It's probably been 2 decades since I've listened to an AM radio station. Very rarely listen to FM any more.

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dishstaller

Yesterday at 10:41 AM

dishdude said:
Very rarely listen to FM any more

That goes for a lot of people. I've been advertising on radio for more than a decade now and am very familiar with this subject. While it is still a valuable tool, it has far less impact than it did just a few years ago. The best reaction I get is from a local Country music station....they play a mix of older and newer music and have a very big footprint.

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Jimbo

Yesterday at 11:03 AM

dishstaller said:
That goes for a lot of people. I've been advertising on radio for more than a decade now and am very familiar with this subject. While it is still a valuable tool, it has far less impact than it did just a few years ago. The best reaction I get is from a local Country music station....they play a mix of older and newer music and have a very big footprint.

Do you do any Ad's on Satellite ?

If Not, why not, because it's not Local ?

dishstaller

Yesterday at 12:29 PM

Jimbo said:
Do you do any Ad's on Satellite ?

If Not, why not, because it's not Local ?

No, just regular FM stations. One is the country station I mentioned and the other is a Talk Radio station which used to get fantastic results but honestly, since the death of Rush Limbaugh, talk radio just doesn't do as well. There were two guys who had an early morning show which was hugely popular here in the southeast but one of them retired a couple years ago and the show just doesn't garner the same numbers as it used to.

slow_poke_pete

Yesterday at 5:35 PM

Haven't listened AM or FM in years

harshness

Today at 10:07 AM

Jimbo said:
If Not, why not, because it's not Local ?

You knew the answer before you asked it.

I can't recall having encountered a local ad on Sirius, and I don't imagine it is any different on XM.

Reactions: dishstaller

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Gary Toma

Staff member Pub Member / Supporter Cutting Edge

Last reply Today at 8:31 AM · posted in DIRECTV Technical Resources Forum

DIRECTV Transponder Map ~ Data 10/21/2026

The TPN Map Excel Presents all DIRECTV Channels:

National (50-States or wide/NAT+PR beams)
Local (Local-Into-Local or narrow/Spot beams)

Additional tabs provide:

OTA the (Over-The-Air) Database
VOD (Video On_Demand) Records
Offline Records
Engr Records
Net Decoder a graphic presentation of all satellites and transponders

Domestic Satellites
@99W...... D11, D14
@101W.... D16
@103W.... D12, D15
@110W.... D5
@119W.... D8

Understanding the TPN Map

Making Sense of the TPN Map Display Conventions

DIRECTV_TPN_Map_261021.xlsx 1,876 KB

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dtv757

Monday at 7:33 AM

For those dazn nba channels are they sat only or sat & streaming

KyL416

Monday at 1:50 PM

Both, and they just made it official with a multiyear deal that also includes TV Everywhere authentication for the DAZN app, and commercial distribution.

DIRECTV, the premier provider of digital television entertainment in the United States, and DAZN, the world's leading sports entertainment platform, today announced a new multi-year distribution agreement for local telecasts of Cleveland Cavaliers, Indiana Pacers, Memphis Grizzlies, Minnesota Timberwolves, and San Antonio Spurs games for DIRECTV streaming, satellite, and U-verse customers in each team's respective NBA-designated home territories.

These DAZN telecasts will be available to DIRECTV customers who subscribe to the Choice or higher packages and to U-verse TV customers who subscribe to the U200 or higher package. Each of DAZN's team services provides live pregame, postgame, and in-game coverage for the respective team.

In the coming weeks, customers who receive access to these teams via DIRECTV will also be able to login to the DAZN platform at no additional cost using their DIRECTV login credentials.

This agreement also provides distribution rights to each of the five NBA teams to all of DIRECTV FOR BUSINESS' thousands of sports bars, restaurants, fitness clubs, and other commercial venues located within each team's respective region.

Reactions: dtv757 and Mr Tony

doctor J

Today at 7:25 AM

DirecTV Satellite Transponder Updates for Oct 28 2026

Comparison of Transponder Data for Oct 28 2026 vs Oct 21 2026:

No changes in system tables for any transponder tuning parameters.

Changes to the use of defined transponders:

1 Transponder cleared of all Streams::
Net 15 TID 12 Beam NAT is a National Transponder on D12@103ca, TPN 13

2 Previously unused Transponders with current APG records::
Net 0 TID 28 Beam NAT + PR is a National Transponder on D16@101, TPN 29
Net 10 TID 126 Beam NAT is a National Transponder on D11@99cb, TPN 3

Stream (PID) counts:

LIVE Streams	National		Spot Beams
	Count	Change	Count	Change
4K	4
HD	264		1449
SD mpeg4	144	-1	194
SD mpeg2	434	1
RB
Audio	89
Push	26
Slate	19		1

TEST Streams	National		Spot Beams
	Count	Change	Count	Change
4K
HD			1
SD mpeg4
SD mpeg2
RB
Engr Work	38

The PID count Excel workbook provides much more count detail.

Newly updated tables of Streams on each transponder are available in the DataDigesters TPN Grids

More details of changes in individual channels will follow in the Weekly Analysis
and Gary Toma's Domestic TPN Map Excel files
A few remaps
Weekly Analysis soon
Enjoy
DataDigesters

doctor J

Today at 7:26 AM

Weekly Analysis for 10/28/2026:

Weekly_Analysis_261028.xlsx 16 KB

KyL416

Today at 8:31 AM

ElectionHQ mixes testing with BBC News, CNBC, CNN, FBN, FNC, MSNOW, NewsMax and NewsNation

Some more reshuffles

Updating the TMSIDs for KSBI and KQCW to use the cable feeds with Thunder games instead of the OTA feeds

An additional commercial PPV channel is now on 9530

View all replies (2168)

Booredatwork.com

Today at 8:12 AM · posted in BooredAtWork.COM

Amazon Echo Show 16: Now this is it!

Time for another AWESOME video from BoredAtWork!

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/wVSqE_URJIo

Direct YouTube Link - Amazon Echo Show 16: Now this is it!
Booredatwork.com Website
Booredatwork on Facebook

0 Replies · 14 views

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TFLEV

Today at 7:02 AM · posted in TFLEV

Can You ACTUALLY Use the Mazda CX-90 PHEV As an Electric Commuter? | Baseline Challenge

Time for another AWESOME video from TFL Electric Vehicles!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-HYgO5Lpa8

Direct YouTube Link - Can You ACTUALLY Use the Mazda CX-90 PHEV As an Electric Commuter? | Baseline Challenge

0 Replies · 17 views

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TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Today at 3:02 AM · posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Apple's All-New iPad mini

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtLJGwEtyT0

Direct YouTube Link - Apple's All-New iPad mini
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed

0 Replies · 22 views

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JSheridan

Lifetime Supporter

Last reply Today at 1:01 AM · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

All DMA's now Western Arc

I know HipKat said that they were working on conversions but we got the official news yesterday right from Dish that starting next month all DMA's will be on the western arc, and all customers will be assigned to that. That's gonna mean a lot of customers around here aren't gonna get Dish unless there are exceptions. Too many mountains and trees.

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Strega

Friday at 10:01 PM

Even if you are broadcasting old SD-only shows, I would think advertisers would still want their commercials to look good.

Reactions: charlesrshell

Jimbo

Friday at 11:17 PM

Strega said:
Even if you are broadcasting old SD-only shows, I would think advertisers would still want their commercials to look good.

Advertisers on SD channels are probably Far and Few, very hard to find, they have very few viewers to watch them.

Reactions: charlesrshell

Mister B

Saturday at 7:35 AM

Jimbo said:
Advertisers on SD channels are probably Far and Few, very hard to find, they have very few viewers to watch them.

I watch mostly SD channels (H&I, Start and ION, etc.). There are plenty of advertisers, this time of the year it is mostly Medicare Advantage plans, auto extended warranties and the occasional walk-in-tub. They know who is watching.

Reactions: gasman882001, Almighty1, savarese04 and 1 other person

slow_poke_pete

Monday at 10:40 AM

Mister B said:
I watch mostly SD channels (H&I, Start and ION, etc.). There are plenty of advertisers, this time of the year it is mostly Medicare Advantage plans, auto extended warranties and the occasional walk-in-tub. They know who is watching.

can't forget the little blue m&m's

Reactions: Almighty1, charlesrshell and telstar_1

charlesrshell

Monday at 11:23 AM

slow_poke_pete said:
can't forget the little blue m&m's

That's what my wife calls my Viagra!!

Reactions: Almighty1, slow_poke_pete, MikeD-C05 and 2 others

telstar_1

Monday at 8:12 PM

Why didn't Charlie end up launching starlink

Reactions: charlesrshell

slow_poke_pete

Yesterday at 2:09 AM

charlesrshell said:
That's what my wife calls my Viagra!!

My gf is 29 years younger than me :shh

Reactions: MikeD-C05, charlesrshell and HipKat

Almighty1

Yesterday at 4:04 PM

telstar_1 said:
Why didn't Charlie end up launching starlink

He does not have the resources aka $$$ compared to Elon Musk as in reality, Elon can eat Charlie for lunch or even mop the floor with Charlie if he wanted to.

Reactions: charlesrshell

slow_poke_pete

Yesterday at 4:58 PM

ment to 20 yrs dam phone

Reactions: charlesrshell

BradleyD

Yesterday at 11:57 PM

Dish should use both satellite and internet like they do now for all channels. Use either or or both.... like now but subscribers could choose something like internet only, or sat only, or both.

Reactions: charlesrshell

slow_poke_pete

Today at 1:01 AM

BradleyD said:
Dish should use both satellite and internet like they do now for all channels. Use either or or both.... like now but subscribers could choose something like internet only, or sat only, or both.

They have sling tv wich sucks ass it needs a major upgrade

Reactions: charlesrshell

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Analyst: Dish could lose billions

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