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N
Last reply · posted in The HD DVD / Blu-ray WAR ZONE!
All I did was post the truth and I seem to have been banned without even an email reason why. Go figure.

This is the post

Your using the wrong data for your ratio.
"Right data wrong data doesn't matter, we all know their track record(horrible) when it comes to reporting accurate numbers. We can go all the way back to the week Transformers was released and BD had nothing but a BOGO that week and still won hmmm? How about the week Open Season (throw in)was #2 ranked in all BD sales hmmm? Counting all the $0.00 purchases hmmm?"

Amazon considering that the previous post called that thread 'Pathetic'. But I get banned. I simply stated the truth about the reliability of his source for numbers. Then gave examples to prove. It wasn't a personal attack.
52 Replies · 11709 views
JoeSp
Wow, you guys sure do know how to dress up a dance -- and still we are fussing about false sales numbers and overstated numbers by both sides over what? And Vurbano, come on, the mods stated time and time again that the posting needed to go into the WZ. Should the mods start spelling out every decision for everyone? If the poster does not know what is going on why not just send an e-mail to the mod for a clarification -- why press the issue in the open forum?

The WZ was kept open so that the BD Forum would not get muddied up with unhappy HD-DVD campers trying to skew BD. I just don't see where the problem is.
vurbano
Wow, you guys sure do know how to dress up a dance -- and still we are fussing about false sales numbers and overstated numbers by both sides over what? And Vurbano, come on, the mods stated time and time again that the posting needed to go into the WZ. Should the mods start spelling out every decision for everyone? If the poster does not know what is going on why not just send an e-mail to the mod for a clarification -- why press the issue in the open forum?

The WZ was kept open so that the BD Forum would not get muddied up with unhappy HD-DVD campers trying to skew BD. I just don't see where the problem is.
First get over it. The mod apologized for the mix up. You are coming in late and simply trolling. Second they are not unhappy HD-DVD campers, they are consumers pointing out problems.
gadgtfreek
Second they are not unhappy HD-DVD campers, they are consumers pointing out problems.

This is comedy central material :haha
vurbano
This is comedy central material :haha
And this is what the BD brain washing machine can do. You guys will never stop the war until you act older than a 19 year old.
JoeSp
And this is what the BD brain washing machine can do. You guys will never stop the war until you act older than a 19 year old.

Uh, Vurbano -- you got a mirror there boy? Maybe you should look into it?:rolleyes:
navychop
:up:up:up
JoeSp
Diogen, I would like to shoot a few holes in your cost theory -- if you will allow --

First, Sony not only owns movie studios (that is more then one for those that are counting) but they also own multiple gaming studios (once again, more then one for those that are counting). Sony leveraged the cost of the PS3 against their movie and gaming studios. So a big movie or game ends up being put on BD and the PS3 gets Sony a nice cut to help leverage the loss on PS3 sales during its first two years out. So much so that now they are making money on PS3 sales.

Toshiba on the other hand did not have any thing to leverage their HD-DVD players with. They readily admited as early as Thanksgiving of '06 that they might have to drop prices to maintain their sales lead against BD when the PS3 was introduced. At that point they started losing money on every HD-DVD player sold and had no movie studio to help offset the loss. Hence when Toshiba finally pulled the plug they announced a $900 million dollar loss.

If Toshiba had not of pushed the prices to back door levels and kept the prices at a level where a profit -- even a small one-- could be made I believe other CE manufacturers would of jumped ship (many were looking hard, Samsung, LG and others). Toshiba would not of moved as many players as fast as they did but there would of been more players on the HD-DVD side and they would still be in the game and making money. In addtion, I keep reading (mainly from you Diogen and Vurbano), that the cost of pressing HD-DVD and formating was alot less then BD. It that was the case then Toshiba should of chose to lose money on the movies (which they would not of if the cost to produce was really that low) and they would have easily displaced BD in disc sales.

Bottom line is that nobody made money on HD-DVD and if nobody is making money -- who is going to sell the product? Retailers were not really making money because HD-DVD was taking up valuable frontage with low returns. This whole deal was done in for Toshiba by simple economics. They consistantly made the wrong choice time and time again -- while the BDA just stayed the course. You guys keep yelling about profit taking? In case you are not in business -- that is why someone goes into business -- to make a profit -- and as much profit as possible.

Maybe by Xmas of '09 BD players will be under the $200 range and movies will be down to a respectable $24.99 in the stores (already there in Walmart -- most titles are already at $24.99 with only new release at $29.99). Even with that there will be naysayers about the format -- which is okay. I am really enjoying my BD movies and I am sure there are many more consumers like me who are enjoying theirs. Sorry there are those of you who don't feel that way but that is okay too.:)
D
First, Sony not only owns movie studios (that is more then one for those that are counting) but they also own multiple gaming studios (once again, more then one for those that are counting). Sony leveraged the cost of the PS3 against their movie and gaming studios. So a big movie or game ends up being put on BD and the PS3 gets Sony a nice cut to help leverage the loss on PS3 sales during its first two years out. So much so that now they are making money on PS3 sales.
Geez...
Why do you assume your readers are complete dumb asses, Joe?
The bolded conclusion does not follow out of your statements above.
You know it. I know it. WTF? How long can this stupidity go on?
Hence when Toshiba finally pulled the plug they announced a $900 million dollar loss.
And? Did I question this?
If Toshiba had not of pushed the prices to back door levels and kept the prices at a level where a profit -- even a small one-- could be made I believe other CE manufacturers would of jumped ship (many were looking hard, Samsung, LG and others).
Again... WTF? How do you know?
It that was the case then Toshiba should of chose to lose money on the movies (which they would not of if the cost to produce was really that low) and they would have easily displaced BD in disc sales.
Instead of recommending Vurbano to look in the mirror, do it yourself. Toshiba is not a studio...

I had enough of you for a week...

Diogen.
JamesJ
I am going to close this thread as it has run WAY off topic and now has gotten into personal attacks...the Ops point was mad and everything was worked out.
Bruce
Supporting Founder Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in Internet Television (IPTV) Discussion Forum
For the naysayers who did not think this service would make it, just added another 4.9M subscribers and that was after the removal of 1.2M Russia subscribers.

This is even better, Paramount+ revenue grew 120% and Subscription revenue grew 74% year-over-year ( 2nd quarter 2021/ 2nd quarter 2022) to $830M, principally reflecting paid subscriber growth on Paramount+.

Now compare that to Peacock with only 13 million paid, 13 million free.

664 Replies · 61545 views
Bruce
Just noticed, CBS shows on Paramount+ are now same day premieres vs next day, which is how they used to be.

Also in 4K/HDR/DV.

I wonder how providers feel about this, they pay an expensive per sub fee for CBS, who is giving another positive reason to drop Paid Live TV and subscribe to P+.
Jimbo
Just noticed, CBS shows on Paramount+ are now same day premieres vs next day, which is how they used to be.

Also in 4K/HDR/DV.

I wonder how providers feel about this, they pay an expensive per sub fee for CBS, who is giving another positive reason to drop Paid Live TV and subscribe to P+.
So, this means that those of us with Commercial Free subs, won't be Commercial Free, unless we wait till after the show is over ?
Which would make same day, not that big of a deal. :confused:
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b4pjoe
So, this means that those of us with Commercial Free subs, won't be Commercial Free, unless we wait till after the show is over ?
Which would make same day, not that big of a deal. :confused:
Paramount+ has always had the CBS shows on the CBS local channel and yes with commercials. What they are doing now is releasing the OnDemand versions of the show which I believe they don't release until after the shows air on the west coast. And they will be commercial free if you subscribe to the ad free version of Paramount+.
Jimbo
Paramount+ has always had the CBS shows on the CBS local channel and yes with commercials. What they are doing now is releasing the OnDemand versions of the show which I believe they don't release until after the shows air on the west coast. And they will be commercial free if you subscribe to the ad free version of Paramount+.
So, the New season won't be on the same day commercial free ???

Looks like the On Demand will Still be the Next Day ...

If you have the Top tier, you could get the LIVE Network feed same as any Cable or OTA would.
===============================================================================

Key facts

  • Premiere date: Tuesday, Oct. 6, 2026
  • Release schedule: Weekly on Tuesdays
  • Network: CBS
  • Streaming: Paramount+*
  • Series created by: Donald P. Bellisario and Don McGill
*New episodes of NCIS stream live on Paramount+ as they air on CBS for subscribers of the Paramount+ Premium plan. Episodes stream on demand on Paramount+ on the day after they air on CBS for all subscribers.
b4pjoe
So, the New season won't be on the same day commercial free ???

Looks like the On Demand will Still be the Next Day ...

If you have the Top tier, you could get the LIVE Network feed same as any Cable or OTA would.
===============================================================================

Key facts

  • Premiere date: Tuesday, Oct. 6, 2026
  • Release schedule: Weekly on Tuesdays
  • Network: CBS
  • Streaming: Paramount+*
  • Series created by: Donald P. Bellisario and Don McGill
*New episodes of NCIS stream live on Paramount+ as they air on CBS for subscribers of the Paramount+ Premium plan. Episodes stream on demand on Paramount+ on the day after they air on CBS for all subscribers.
Watching it on the CBS local on Paramount+ is the exact same as watching it on your CBS local on your current cable/satellite/mvpd/vMVPD service. The OnDemand versions of it can be released on the same day that it airs but usually it is after the show airs on the west coast so if you have a show at 7:00 pm in your time zone and it airs 3 hours later on the west coast at 10:00 pm your time then they could release it at 11:00 pm your time if it was a one hour show. I really have not checked to see what time I can see the ad free OnDemand shows on Paramount+. I know today that last nights FBI and CIA show did not pop into the Up Next row on my Apple TV until this afternoon. I guess it may have been in Paramount+ since last night but I never checked it.
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Jimbo
Watching it on the CBS local on Paramount+ is the exact same as watching it on your CBS local on your current cable/satellite/mvpd/vMVPD service. The OnDemand versions of it can be released on the same day that it airs but usually it is after the show airs on the west coast so if you have a show at 7:00 pm in your time zone and it airs 3 hours later on the west coast at 10:00 pm your time then they could release it at 11:00 pm your time if it was a one hour show. I really have not checked to see what time I can see the ad free OnDemand shows on Paramount+. I know today that last nights FBI and CIA show did not pop into the Up Next row on my Apple TV until this afternoon. I guess it may have been in Paramount+ since last night but I never checked it.
I think I read 3am est the next day, somewhere.
jamieh1
Last reply · posted in DIRECTV Programming Forum
The new curated multiview is now live.
While on many of the sports channels and non sports channels there is a multi view option button. It will pull up a side bar with many different multi view options.
4 Replies · 182 views
K
It's now expanded to a Build Your Own Multiview, currently available to streaming customers with Geminis and Roku, and coming soon to Android TV, Fire TV, Vizio, LG, Apple TV and Tizen.
b4pjoe
It's now expanded to a Build Your Own Multiview, currently available to streaming customers with Geminis and Roku, and coming soon to Android TV, Fire TV, Vizio, LG, Apple TV and Tizen.
But not on the only device they ship out right now which is the Gemini Air.
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TheRatPatrol
It's now expanded to a Build Your Own Multiview, currently available to streaming customers with Geminis and Roku, and coming soon to Android TV, Fire TV, Vizio, LG, Apple TV and Tizen.
How soon will it be available on Apple TV? Thanks
I WANT MORE
But not on the only device they ship out right now which is the Gemini Air.
It's on my Air's.
"MysteryMan"
Pub Member / Supporter Cutting Edge
Last reply · posted in Computers and Gadgets
I created this thread on the original Edgecutter Cutting Edge Forums site. It's simply a place for those to review the latest software available for those using Windows 10 and Windows 11. To date it has received 112,559 views. I have been asked by staff to continue this thread here.
522 Replies · 47232 views
EarDemon
If it wasn't for what I want, I wouldn't need any of this.

Do I need a collection of handheld radios, scanners and speed enforcement countermeasures? Nope, but I want them. Very little, if any of the software used to interface with these devices is available on Linux.
WhiteBeard
If it wasn't for what I want, I wouldn't need any of this.

Do I need a collection of handheld radios, scanners and speed enforcement countermeasures? Nope, but I want them. Very little, if any of the software used to interface with these devices is available on Linux.
To each there own but I've found that Windows can't do much more than Linux can. Can't have everything. ☹️
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EarDemon
To each there own but I've found that Windows can't do much more than Linux can. Can't have everything. ☹️
For niche use cases, yes I agree. Kali for ethical hacking and security testing, and running a Cacti server for network monitoring are the two things I have experience in. Plus thousands and thousands of other things, but for every day use I just can't see it. The owner of the GMRS repeater that I pay to access is changing the Tx DPL tones tomorrow, while Chirp is available on Linux, the software to program my MXT500 is not.

I run Fedora and Ubuntu in VMWare, honestly I don't care much for the UI of either of them and I don't feel like spending days/weeks to customize the UI to make it look Windows-like when I could just use Windows. The cartoonish dock at the bottom of the screen reminds me of Apple products.
harshness
I don't care much for the UI of either of them and I don't feel like spending days/weeks to customize the UI to make it look Windows-like when I could just use Windows.
What is so fantabulous about the Windows UI? By many accounts, it has been going downhill since Windows 7.

There are Linux desktops that offer Windows or Mac UIs, yet you don't hear much chatter about them outside of questions about when the creators might get sued.
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EarDemon
What is so fantabulous about the Windows UI?
Because it's what I prefer. I know I've said this a few times, I use Open Shell to give me the cascading start menu a la WIN 95 and NT4.0. The only reason I went from Windows Vista to 7 back in the day was because of Classic Shell. I cannot stand anything other than the OG start menu from 30+ years ago. I'm using ExplorerPatcher to give me Windows 10 UI elements of the taskbar and right click context menus.

If you could take a look at how I set up Windows 95, you'd find many similarities to how I use 11.
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EarDemon
I could probably use that as a starting point, but I don't like the full size icons. If you have to click on each folder that's also a no-go for me, it has to be cascading.

I used to have Peppermint Linux in a VM, that was about as close as I could get to recreating a Windows NT4.0 style of menu structure, but I could never get it to scale properly in VMWare on a 4K display and eventually gave up.

Whatever the boot up time it's fine with me. The longest part of my bootup is the HP SureStart BIOS integrity check. Once that is done, it's only a few more seconds. I haven't done this reg tweak yet since the reformat, but I switched the bootup animation to the Windows 10 style spinning circle of dots, and it's two and a half rotations. I can live with that.
harshness
Because it's what I prefer.
I hope you don't believe that makes it wonderful (especially when you're using workarounds for Microsoft's malfeasance).

I use LibreOffice as opposed to Microsoft office (even in Windows) because it's UI is like the Office of old, so I'm putting my money where my mouth is (in a manner of speaking). The ribbon was one of the worst ideas to come out Redmond.
HipKat
I could probably use that as a starting point, but I don't like the full size icons. If you have to click on each folder that's also a no-go for me, it has to be cascading.

I used to have Peppermint Linux in a VM, that was about as close as I could get to recreating a Windows NT4.0 style of menu structure, but I could never get it to scale properly in VMWare on a 4K display and eventually gave up.

Whatever the boot up time it's fine with me. The longest part of my bootup is the HP SureStart BIOS integrity check. Once that is done, it's only a few more seconds. I haven't done this reg tweak yet since the reformat, but I switched the bootup animation to the Windows 10 style spinning circle of dots, and it's two and a half rotations. I can live with that.
I used to pin the C: drive to the Win Taskbar and it would open in cascading style
Former member 209992
Last reply · posted in SatelliteGuys Support Center
For some reason, the satelliteguys.us site is loading a lot slower than usual on both Chrome on my Asus laptop and Safari on my iPhone.
I'm also seeing longer appearances of the blue bar at the top and the "3 blue bars" loading symbol.
Is anyone else also having the same problem? Thanks in advance.
528 Replies · 17961 views
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Scott Greczkowski
Remember folks... just like DNS... its always Foxbat. :D
Foxbat
Remember folks... just like DNS... its always Foxbat. :D
WTF… …What the Foxbat!😱
S
zipping right along here
S
WTF… …What the Foxbat!😱
wow what a kick in the balls!!! the wife blames you when things don't work now scott's blaming you :biggrin
Foxbat
wow what a kick in the balls!!! the wife blames you when things don't work now scott's blaming you :biggrin
I know. Here's what Scott has in store for me if I get out of line:
IMG_1990.webp
IMG_1989.webp
S
I know. Here's what Scott has in store for me if I get out of line:
OMG to freaking funny :biggrin
cpdretired
Supporting Founder
Last reply · posted in DISH Network Support Forum
Several Dish offers showed up today in my account. Once you choose one the rest are removed. Offers were Showtime, Starz, AMC and others.
33 Replies · 1594 views
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B
Just checked my account and it shows mgm+ at 8.00 per month, but that has red line drawn thru it and shows 0.00 per month. But it doesn't say how long this lasts,...... 1 month, 3 months, forever. I called customer service to get an answer, and they said nothing like that exists. Should I add the offer or not? Already paying them too much, but want to take advantage of something free.
ewindowman
Lots of offers on the hopper account app . On the website there are only a few.
Almighty1
Lots of offers on the hopper account app . On the website there are only a few.
Never had time to use the Hopper 3 account app yet. I also have a Hopper Plus so it's not the same as the Hopper 3 standalone. Will try it when I have more time, need to beat the taxes extension filing deadline first as I am still working on entering the data into the tax software.
Almighty1
This is what I see when it comes to offers on My Account on the Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus and dish.com:

AMC+ 50% off for 3 months (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)
AMC+ Free for 3 months (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus and dish.com)
AMC+ 1 month free (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)

Cine y Entretenimie 50% off for 3 months

DOGTV 1 month free (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)

DISH Movie Pack 50% off for 6 months (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus and dish.com)

DOGTV 50% off for 6 months (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)
DOGTV 1 month free (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)

Gallery First Month Free (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)

Heartland Pack 50% off for 6 months (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus and dish.com)

Mexico y Mas 50% off for 3 months (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)

MGM+ $0.00/Month not saying how long (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)

Multi-Sport Pack 50% off for 6 months (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)

Netflix Standard with Ads, $7.99/month credit toward Netflix Standard with Ads ($.99) month with 24 month DISH commitment
(Only on My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)

Outdoor Pack 50% off for 6 months (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)

Paramount+ with SHOWTIME 50% off for three months (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus and dish.com)
Paramount+ with SHOWTIME 2 months free (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)

Playboy TV 50% off for 6 months (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)

Republica Dominicana 50% off for 3 months (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)

STARZ 50% off for 3 months (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)
STARZ $1.99/month for 2 months (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus and dish.com)

Sudamerica y Mas 50% off for 3 months (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)

UP Faith & Family 1 month free (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)
S
Just checked my account and it shows mgm+ at 8.00 per month, but that has red line drawn thru it and shows 0.00 per month. But it doesn't say how long this lasts,...... 1 month, 3 months, forever. I called customer service to get an answer, and they said nothing like that exists. Should I add the offer or not? Already paying them too much, but want to take advantage of something free.
look again mine says free for 1 month
Almighty1
look again mine says free for 1 month
Not for me, mines has no mention of how long aka the offer period and the Terms and conditions the $0.00 is good for. All I see is one can lose $5.00 if you decide to remove it before day 31 after you add it to the account.

1792131071109.webp
  • Wow
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S
Not for me, mines has no mention of how long aka the offer period and the Terms and conditions the $0.00 is good for. All I see is one can lose $5.00 if you decide to remove it before day 31 after you add it to the account.

View attachment 194817
wonder why it says that
Scott Greczkowski
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne


Get it?


An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....
68496 Replies · 2670694 views
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sdfntx
White Noise - Jessie Baylin
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dishstaller
White Rabbit - Jefferson Airplane
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long_time_Dish
White Sun - The Doobie Brothers
H
White Room-Cream
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ClarkGable
White Wedding - Billy Idol
jannah
Last reply · posted in DISH Network Support Forum
Help, I'm a little confjused on the activation process.
I purchased the Joey 4 from Solid Signal and shipping box has Call 866 726-4282 to Avtivate new Receiver. That number is Solid Signals number.
I googled and that search said call Dish to activate. I assume that is correct unless this requires a 2 step process.
Please let me know.
Thanks
6 Replies · 214 views
jannah
All good called Dish and new Joey 4 is activated and working.
Old Joey 2 deactivated and no need to return. 🙂
S
All good called Dish and new Joey 4 is activated and working.
Old Joey 2 deactivated and no need to return. 🙂
i bought mine straight from dish as it was only $ 100.00 bucks!!! had the protection plan they came out removed and deactivated the 4k joey and activated and installed the joey 4.
zcrayfish
Solid signal has provided the wrong number on their website to activate Dish boxes for years now.
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Nominal
I don't know if things are different with Dish but when I first rejoined DirecTV a few years ago Solid Signal was able to create my account and activate the equipment I got from them on a self-install without a truck roll.
S
Solid signal has provided the wrong number on their website to activate Dish boxes for years now.
1-800-333-3474. billing or tech support should be able to do it!!!
S
Help, I'm a little confjused on the activation process.
I purchased the Joey 4 from Solid Signal and shipping box has Call 866 726-4282 to Avtivate new Receiver. That number is Solid Signals number.
I googled and that search said call Dish to activate. I assume that is correct unless this requires a 2 step process.
Please let me know.
Thanks
just call dish and iggy the number from solid signal!!
Foxbat
Supporting Founder Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in Internet Television (IPTV) Discussion Forum
Apple has finally released their Apple TV 4K with built-in Siri and a microphone so it can respond to your queries even if you don't have the remote. It also increases in price, to $299. I had been planning on updating my current Apple TV 4K streamers, but that's $600 for the two of them, and that's a pass at this point.

At $299, it had better come with 256 GB of Storage, Gigabit (or better) Ethernet, the latest HDMI tech and standards, and one year of free Apple One. But it probably won't…
14 Replies · 198 views
Ronnie-
Meh. The 4Ks I have will do everything that these do that I need them to do.


Which that's most tech these days for anything released the last four to five years.


It's honestly a testament to how good the previous gen Apple TVs were and are.
navychop
It's honestly a testament to how good the previous gen Apple TVs were and are.

Don't tell them that. They'll adopt planned obsolescence.
Foxbat
The only thing I can see that is compelling is the AV1 decoding done in the A19's hardware instead of the current ATV4K's processor.
navychop
Outside of gaming, would Joe Sixpack notice any difference?
KAB
KAB
Outside of gaming, would Joe Sixpack notice any difference?
Not a bit. IMO, Apple's are slow to boot up. Time is about the same with 1st gen and 3rd. Roku runs rings around them in that department. I only reason I stuck, is the Apple infrastructure, which has it's definite advantages. But $300 is a deal breaker. Later, Apple!
S
Don't tell them that. They'll adopt planned obsolescence.
they all do that anyways.. ever notice your cell phone slows down when you come up for an upgrade.. :what. apple's been making money off of software and not hardware for a while