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Skyhi

Pub Member / Supporter

Last reply Jun 8, 2008 · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

There seems to be some confusion regarding the recent court filings...

I've been glancing at the 100's of posts regarding the Voom and Tivo lawsuits. Some (not all) of the comments on these threads indicate a severe lack of understanding about what a(n) (ammended) complaint is. I will try to explain....

A legal complaint is simply a list of facts that a plaintiff hopes to prove at trial. NOTHING MORE. The facts are mere allegations that are meaningless until proved with evidence. As somebody who has read literally 1000s of complaints, I can assure you that many of the "facts" stated within them are pure BS.

VOOMs complaint against E*, for example, looks extremely damning for E*. However, this is how all complaints appear.....they are intentionally drafted that way. Until VOOM can offer concrete evidence to back the "facts" stated in their complaint, the "facts" are utterly meaningless and should not be given credence.

For a better understanding of the facts in any given case, it is helpful to read the various motions and affidavits filed by BOTH sides. Hoping to gain any knowledge other than the "nature of the dispute" by reading a complaint is a complete exercise in futility.

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riffjim4069

Jun 7, 2008

Skyhi said:
For a better understanding of the facts in any given case, it is helpful to read the various motions and affidavits filed by BOTH sides. Hoping to gain any knowledge other than the "nature of the dispute" by reading a complaint is a complete exercise in futility.

I fully agree! However, EchoStar's Counter Claim (or any other documents in reply to VOOM's motion for that matter) are not on file, or at least publically accessible. Also, it is fair for people to consider the credibility of the accused. In this particular case, EchoStar has a history of questionable behavior...especially when dealing with programmers. For example: if you were to accuse The Pope of murder, you would have a difficult time convinding anyone your alogation had merit due to the well-established moral conduct of the pontif. However, if you were to accuse Scott Peterson of murdering any formal love interest...well, people are going to more apt to believe you based on Mr. Peterson's murderous past.

Dish Network may have very well been within their legal rights to terminate the agreement, but their past business dealing would suggest otherwise. Finally, although E* may have been well within their rights to terminate the affiliation agreeement, there is no question this company did not treat their customer fairly in the VOOM matter, and I am convinced they did not act in good-faith in trying to resolve the matter with VOOM based on the facts and their past history.

Anyway, I have asked that someone post E*'s reply to VOOM's Complaint & Summons, but so far nothing...and this is a E* friendly website Perhaps you can help?

http://www.satelliteguys.us/1392182-post143.html

Scott Greczkowski

Jun 8, 2008

riffjim4069 said:
Anyway, I have asked that someone post E*'s reply to VOOM's Complaint & Summons, but so far nothing...and this is a E* friendly website Perhaps you can help?

It appears Dish has not replied as of yet, normally it takes a week or so for the lawyers to reply to those type of thing, and here has Dish has 100 points to address.

I am sure that once Dish replies that it will be made available on the courts website.

I am looking forward to seeing their response.

Peter Parker

Jun 8, 2008

Scott Greczkowski said:
It appears Dish has not replied as of yet, normally it takes a week or so for the lawyers to reply to those type of thing, and here has Dish has 100 points to address.

I am sure that once Dish replies that it will be made available on the courts website.

I am looking forward to seeing their response.

He is referring (I believe) to an echostar response to the ORIGINAL complaint. He thinks it odd that the judge lwithout one or that if there is one it is not accessible in the same manner as the original complaint.

I don't agree with Jim on much of anything in all thsi but it would be interesting to read the Echostar response.

But I also agree with the point of thsi thread----which is that neither filing is likely to tell us the whole story.

Skyhi

Jun 8, 2008

Scott Greczkowski said:
It appears Dish has not replied as of yet, normally it takes a week or so for the lawyers to reply to those type of thing, and here has Dish has 100 points to address.

I am sure that once Dish replies that it will be made available on the courts website.

I am looking forward to seeing their response.

In federal court, a defendant has 28 days (i believe - - - not sure about new york state) to respond to a complaint.

E*'s response, however, will be utterly meaningless - - - you will not learn any information. A typical answer to a complaint looks like this:

1. Defendant admits it is a corporation with its principle place of business in Colorado.

2. Defendant denies allegations made in paragraph 2 of the complaint.

3. Defendant denies allegations made in paragraph 3 of the complaint.

.....and so one. In an answer, a defendant merely admits or denies the allegations in the complaint....paragraph by paragraph. They will give no reasons for their denials. In addition, the answer will contain a laundry list of affirmitive defenses that may or may not be valid, but they will be stated because many of them are permanetly waived if they are not brought up in the answer.

E* may make a counterclaim against VOOM when it files its answer. The counterclaim, however, is nothing more than another complaint meaning that it is full of facts that the counter-claimant *hopes to prove* at trial.

The real information is contained in affidavits, motions, and testimony. In federal court, this is all publicly accessible at the courthouse or online (however I believe there is a charge of $.05/page if it is retrieved online)

Skyhi

Jun 8, 2008

riffjim4069 said:
I fully agree! However, EchoStar's Counter Claim (or any other documents in reply to VOOM's motion for that matter) are not on file, or at least publically accessible. Also, it is fair for people to consider the credibility of the accused. In this particular case, EchoStar has a history of questionable behavior...especially when dealing with programmers. For example: if you were to accuse The Pope of murder, you would have a difficult time convinding anyone your alogation had merit due to the well-established moral conduct of the pontif. However, if you were to accuse Scott Peterson of murdering any formal love interest...well, people are going to more apt to believe you based on Mr. Peterson's murderous past.

Dish Network may have very well been within their legal rights to terminate the agreement, but their past business dealing would suggest otherwise. Finally, although E* may have been well within their rights to terminate the affiliation agreeement, there is no question this company did not treat their customer fairly in the VOOM matter, and I am convinced they did not act in good-faith in trying to resolve the matter with VOOM based on the facts and their past history.

Anyway, I have asked that someone post E*'s reply to VOOM's Complaint & Summons, but so far nothing...and this is a E* friendly website Perhaps you can help?

http://www.satelliteguys.us/1392182-post143.html

It's fine if people want to express an opinion on the E*/Voom case based on E*s past behavior. My only point is that some people are very misguided if they're forming an opinion on the case based on the allegations made in the complaint.

As I said in the previous post, E*'s answer to the complaint will only have a long numbered list stating "Dfd admits/denies to allegations in paragraph..."

Peter Parker

Jun 8, 2008

Again all he wants to see is how Echostar responded to the first filing. they obviously did because the ruling we see refers to the echostar arguments. I my or may not agree with jim on how he interprets it but I too would love to see the full record of what occurred to get us to the initial ruling on the temporary injunction.

I don't think thst Jim was referring to arespomse to the amended complaint. Tah too would be interesting but I think that we all agree that it likely has nt been filed yt.

Skyhi

Jun 8, 2008

Geronimo said:
Again all he wants to see is how Echostar responded to the first filing. they obviously did because the ruling we see refers to the echostar arguments. I my or may not agree with jim on how he interprets it but I too would love to see the full record of what occurred to get us to the initial ruling on the temporary injunction.

I don't think thst Jim was referring to arespomse to the amended complaint. Tah too would be interesting but I think that we all agree that it likely has nt been filed yt.

Ok, I understand. I'm not sure why E*'s answer and counterclaim arn't posted electronically on the docket yet....very weird. Until its posted, the only way to read it would be to physically look at the case file in the courthouse.

Like I said before, though, this document is nothing more than E*'s view of the dispute when looked at under rose colored glasses.

The documents to wait for to get a true feeling of the case will be Vooms motion for summary judgment, E*'s MSJ (and/or reply to Vooms MSJ), and most importantly, the judges ruling on the MSJ's (hopefully he/she will give a written opinion). While MSJ's are optional filings, I'd expect both sides to file one within the next 12 months assuming the case isn;t settled out of court.

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meStevo

Lifetime Supporter

Last reply 21 minutes ago · posted in The Sports Section

NFL 2026-2027 Season

Schedule drops tomorrow. Mandatory mini camps in June. Hall of Fame game August 6th.

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meStevo

Friday at 12:05 PM

Jalen Hurts out indefinitely as they treat and monitor a superficial blood clot in his leg.

View: https://x.com/RapSheet/status/2111074303185989663?s=20

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meStevo

Yesterday at 3:59 PM

Browns lead the AFC North

Seth Meyers What GIF by Late Night with Seth Meyers

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meStevo

Today at 11:40 AM

Hurts done for the season now

View: https://x.com/RapSheet/status/2112185275862417814

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Foxbat

Today at 6:19 PM

I guess even the patience of us laid-back Hoosiers has its limits:

Colts relieve general manager Chris Ballard of his duties

Colts Owner & CEO Carlie Irsay-Gordon released a statement Monday announcing the news.

www.colts.com

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rvvaquero

21 minutes ago

Foxbat said:
I guess even the patience of us laid-back Hoosiers has its limits:

Colts relieve general manager Chris Ballard of his duties

Colts Owner & CEO Carlie Irsay-Gordon released a statement Monday announcing the news.

www.colts.com

Be nice to see a Cowboy headline like that.

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dfergie

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU!

Last reply 45 minutes ago · posted in TV Shows

Stargate SG-1 Discussion

Stargate SG-1 cancelled, Atlantis renewed

Monday - August 21, 2006 | by Darren Sumner

The future of Stargate is in question today, as SCI FI Channel has cancelled the long-running Stargate SG-1, Multichannel News reported today and a GateWorld source has confirmed. The news regrettably follows the airing of the show's milestone two-hundredth episode on Friday.

Stargate Atlantis, meanwhile, has been renewed for a fourth season, with the network hoping to see that the spin-off series can stand alone, according to a source.
Source Gateworld

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reubenray

Today at 1:30 PM

I have gotten back into watching SG-1 and I have recorded most of the episodes to binge watch. What episodes are about the Antarctic or was this a movie? Also where could I watch the SG-1 movies?

osu1991

Today at 2:00 PM

Watch Stargate SG-1 for Free Online | Pluto TV

Stargate SG-1 picks up where the blockbuster film left off as the SG-1 team sets out to explore the mysteries of the Stargate and the worlds beyond it in the pulse-pounding series which became a worldwide phenomenon and a science fiction classic. Stream Stargate SG-1 for free on Pluto TV.

pluto.tv

long_time_Dish

Today at 3:47 PM

reubenray said:
I have gotten back into watching SG-1 and I have recorded most of the episodes to binge watch. What episodes are about the Antarctic or was this a movie? Also where could I watch the SG-1 movies?

Well, there are a couple involving the Antarctic. "Solitudes", S1 E17 (one of my favorites), Then, "Lost City', S7 E21 and E22. Then, in the SGA pilot, "Rising", S1 E1 and E2, it starts out in the Antarctic for about the first 20 minutes or so.

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reubenray

Today at 3:54 PM

long_time_Dish said:
Well, there are a couple involving the Antarctic. "Solitudes", S1 E17 (one of my favorites), Then, "Lost City', S7 E21 and E22. Then, in the SGA pilot, "Rising", S1 E1 and E2, it starts out in the Antarctic for about the first 20 minutes or so.

Which one has O'Neil being Ancients? I am at the end of Season 8 now.

long_time_Dish

45 minutes ago

reubenray said:
Which one has O'Neil being Ancients? I am at the end of Season 8 now.

If I understand your question, O'Neill had the Ancient's knowledge in the "Lost City" two-part episode. That was when Anubis attacked Earth and there was a big battle over Antarctica.

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Scott Greczkowski

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge

Last reply 52 minutes ago · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Song Name Game Part 3!

Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne

Get it?

An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....

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dishstaller

Today at 10:20 AM

Blinded By The Light - Manfred Mann's Earth Band

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Bobby

Today at 11:52 AM

I Saw The Light - Todd Rundgren

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long_time_Dish

Today at 3:29 PM

Little Bit Of Light - Strange Weather

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EatMyVolts

Today at 4:16 PM

A Little Bit of Soap -- The Jarmels

long_time_Dish

52 minutes ago

Give A Little Bit - Supertramp

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TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Today at 7:22 PM · posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Defender on Linux: Microsoft’s Big Security Move #shorts

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/wVdnjWsw2Uk

Direct YouTube Link - Defender on Linux: Microsoft's Big Security Move #shorts
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed

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Ramy

Supporting Founder

Last reply Today at 6:22 PM · posted in The Sports Section

2026-27 NCAA College Football

Really excited for this season with Kentucky having a new coach and some really exciting recruits. Probably won't last long, but here's hoping this season is great.

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Foxbat

Yesterday at 6:34 PM

Best fan sign I saw during the ND-BYU game: "Bear ate your Lucky Charms!" (Bear being the Cougars' QB). I was going to suggest, "Have you or your team been involved in a Carr crash?"

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osu1991

Today at 10:03 AM

View: https://youtu.be/mUq0cZaflyc?si=odZ2TTCweQXCWNBR

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Mike0616

Today at 11:08 AM

osu1991 said:
View: https://youtu.be/mUq0cZaflyc?si=odZ2TTCweQXCWNBR

They get cruel sometimes, very very cruel.

. Hated to see my dawgs go down but I still say being ranked #1 is a hex on you!

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Jimbo

Today at 2:11 PM

Mike0616 said:
They get cruel sometimes, very very cruel.. Hated to see my dawgs go down but I still say being ranked #1 is a hex on you!

Yup, I agree, I'd rather be 2 or 3 till the last few weeks.

osu1991

Today at 6:22 PM

View: https://youtu.be/F6KonG-9Gz0?is=NqOTlbotkS--p4aj

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Peter Parker

Supporting Founder Lifetime Supporter

Last reply Today at 5:53 PM · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

DISH Hopper 3 Software Version 713 Is Out

No idea what improvements might be involved.

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bookworm370

Saturday at 3:17 PM

Has anyone noticed an FF stutter with 713? I used to be able to hit FF a few times and skip smoothly. After 713 (maybe 712), when I skip forward, there is a definite stutter for as many times as I have pressed FF.

Can anyone check on this and report back? Recorded programs and then press skip forward a few times to see if it's smooth? Normally, it just jumps to the right place after the skips.

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naptime

Yesterday at 1:05 AM

I'm getting fabulous picture on Ch. 148 4k, but zero audio with H713. This is with a recorded show (Notre Dame game). Anyone else have this? Audio is fine on every other channel.

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reubenray

Yesterday at 6:14 AM

bookworm370 said:
Has anyone noticed an FF stutter with 713? I used to be able to hit FF a few times and skip smoothly. After 713 (maybe 712), when I skip forward, there is a definite stutter for as many times as I have pressed FF.

Can anyone check on this and report back? Recorded programs and then press skip forward a few times to see if it's smooth? Normally, it just jumps to the right place after the skips.

My wife mentioned that her remote is acting strange this morning. She hit FF and it went to 15x FF.

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dishstaller

Yesterday at 1:01 PM

reubenray said:
My wife mentioned that her remote is acting strange this morning.

Had a customer call recently saying their remote was really acting up, some buttons no longer functioned. Told them to reboot the Hopper....problem fixed.
Wife bought me a t-shirt that has "have you tried turning it off and on again?"

https://www.amazon.com/Have-Tried-Turning-Again-T-Shirt/dp/B07G1ZV9W9/ref=sr_1_11?crid=3NNRAEED195WV&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.86TxUTPcw48CRYlDcLntwpMxbPDBfjiLu4wMZGX3VN6ajG_cFCuoDBJT7pS9CW2mjThKlke5Z6dlXH8bJKkQF4s892wGVU1ca_00S0BQz6F15V30_4szIdWeycvw3_zoVtsULQASM8bGcgvsKms930xApC43y_-YBVN0Q8Xsf_csSqXcmhWpresARdXHfx2VazllrXI8asduvrbnk9S3CGnzjqnVTkjzFSpSQLdQKA6Dx_7UfbQIBBJsqAmQwwtDGqM0YKVIkjV4ARgVJvJ69vLPhxV0m8pkJQd_2w_QX_A.-jSy9OqrqWdxPBsgZGia1hHMbvDAKxxhRn9kK1EBdCc&dib_tag=se&keywords=have%2Byou%2Btried%2Bturning%2Bit%2Boff%2Band%2Bon%2Bagain&nsdOptOutParam=true&qid=1792342839&sprefix=have%2Byou%2Btried%2B%2Caps%2C265&sr=8-11&customId=B0752XJYNL&customizationToken=MC_Assembly_1%23B0752XJYNL&th=1&psc=1

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Foxbat

Yesterday at 7:14 PM

dishstaller said:
Wife bought me a t-shirt that has "have you tried turning it off and on again?"

Here's the one I need:

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dishstaller

Yesterday at 10:15 PM

Foxbat said:
Here's the one I need:

View attachment 194877

Just ordered one....that's great.

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jsmit86

Today at 9:57 AM

naptime said:
I'm getting fabulous picture on Ch. 148 4k, but zero audio with H713. This is with a recorded show (Notre Dame game). Anyone else have this? Audio is fine on every other channel.

It's a known issue.
For a temporary fix, go into the menu, Audio, and turn Dolby Audio "OFF". You will have PCM stereo audio.

I was able to give the tech ops team some data logs so they could diagnose the problem, and they rolled me back to H708 temporarily. It fixed that issue.

They let me know that they understand what caused the issue, and it will be fixed within a few weeks in a new update.

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long_time_Dish

Today at 3:57 PM

jsmit86 said:
They let me know that they understand what caused the issue, and it will be fixed within a few weeks in a new update.

Oh, you mean "soon"? :biggrin

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Almighty1

Today at 4:07 PM

jsmit86 said:
It's a known issue.
For a temporary fix, go into the menu, Audio, and turn Dolby Audio "OFF". You will have PCM stereo audio.

I was able to give the tech ops team some data logs so they could diagnose the problem, and they rolled me back to H708 temporarily. It fixed that issue.

They let me know that they understand what caused the issue, and it will be fixed within a few weeks in a new update.

I guess they will be busy when lots of people start asking for rollbacks to H708 now that you mention that downgrades of software does exist because it will likely fix the OTA Single Tuner and the IR Remote problems in H710-H713.

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navychop

Today at 5:53 PM

Almighty1 said:
it will likely fix the OTA Single Tuner

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TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Today at 5:12 PM · posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

RTX Spark: NVIDIA's AI PC Powerhouse Details! #shorts

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/PSGt6dUXdnI

Direct YouTube Link - RTX Spark: NVIDIA's AI PC Powerhouse Details! #shorts
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed

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SuperDish_Fan23

Last reply Today at 5:05 PM · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

Its crazy how the ViP922 is so rare for no reason.

Why are ViP922s So rare? like its crazy how ebay has none, i checked everywhere, also, i got a ViP222k now, which is actually activated!

7 Replies · 212 views

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HipKat

Today at 8:55 AM

I think they were more of a transitional receiver bridging the VIPs to the Hopper. They were a PITA to install and were buggy. Personally, I thought at the time that they were the best receiver out there. The versatility of the VIP's with the new Hopper GUI and, by far, the coolest-looking front plate and lighting.

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AZ.

Today at 9:02 AM

Well if it is because of reliability that wouldnt shock me.I went through 5 or 6 of them in little over 2 years. I loved the Sling when it worked! Saved lots of money having it in the day. That was probably 15 or 16 years ago?

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telstar_1

Today at 1:22 PM

HipKat said:
I think they were more of a transitional receiver bridging the VIPs to the Hopper. They were a PITA to install and were buggy. Personally, I thought at the time that they were the best receiver out there. The versatility of the VIP's with the new Hopper GUI and, by far, the coolest-looking front plate and lighting.

I don't recall that they came out just before hopper, but rather that they came out even before 722. Or could be thinking of 921.

As to the title pf the post, "rare" does not necessarily mean valuable or desirable.

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Nominal

Today at 4:30 PM

telstar_1 said:
I don't recall that they came out just before hopper, but rather that they came out even before 722. Or could be thinking of 921.

As to the title pf the post, "rare" does not necessarily mean valuable or desirable.

You are thinking of the 921. The 922 was the first DVR with Sling functionality built in (that was eventually disabled along with the Sling Adapter for the 722s and the 1st Hopper because they relied on now-defunct Adobe Flash technology). With the bugginess described by others and the removal of its marquee feature (Sling) the 922 faded into obscurity once the Hopper 2 with built in Sling was released and they finally made the concept into a fully functional product.

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dishdude

Today at 5:05 PM

I had one, the front panel lighting was cool, the menus were fresh and a lot more modern looking than the ViPs. However, it was very buggy and the Sling functionality just didn't work well - I think it was due to internet speeds at the time. I think I had to pay $40 for the Sling app on my phone iirc.

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TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Today at 4:12 PM · posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

"You Can See Everything" Is 1 of the Century’s Best #shorts

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/A_V4A_ne8wE

Direct YouTube Link - "You Can See Everything" Is 1 of the Century's Best #shorts
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed

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dfergie

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU!

Last reply Today at 4:01 PM · posted in What's Cooking?

What's For Lunch?

We have a Breakfast and Dinner thread so...

Continuing from the Breakfast thread, found Cornbread mix so ...
Yellow Cornbread Mix
2 Hatch Green Chiles -diced
1 Egg
2/3 cup of milk
add to greased pan
Bake for 400f 20-25 minutes(From instructions)
now to put together and try... this to go with pinto beans...

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TRG

Oct 10, 2026

Two Chicago style hot dogs and a Fanta orange soda.

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Mr Tony

Oct 12, 2026

Little mini pepperoni pizza, green beans, apples and chocolate milk.

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dfergie

Oct 12, 2026

TRG said:
Fanta orange soda.

Sitting in fridge cooling off, bought 1 along with 2 Mexican Cokes at La Tienda... (I keep a few cokes stashed as well as in fridge and camper fridge)

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Mr Tony

Today at 2:17 PM

Garlic cheese bread
Green beans
Apples
Chocolate Milk
Some weird noodles.

(They have salad and a couple other fruits if wanted)

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TRG

Today at 3:41 PM

Club sandwich and corn chowder. Iced tea.

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dfergie

Today at 4:01 PM

Chili dog bowl, water… (homemade chili)

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There seems to be some confusion regarding the recent court filings...

NFL 2026-2027 Season

Colts relieve general manager Chris Ballard of his duties

Colts relieve general manager Chris Ballard of his duties

Stargate SG-1 Discussion

Watch Stargate SG-1 for Free Online | Pluto TV

Song Name Game Part 3!

Defender on Linux: Microsoft’s Big Security Move #shorts

2026-27 NCAA College Football

DISH Hopper 3 Software Version 713 Is Out

RTX Spark: NVIDIA's AI PC Powerhouse Details! #shorts

Its crazy how the ViP922 is so rare for no reason.

"You Can See Everything" Is 1 of the Century’s Best #shorts

What's For Lunch?