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Last reply Sep 6, 2008 · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

TIVO Decision with DISH delayed

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A federal judge in Texas on Thursday delayed ruling until as late as November on whether EchoStar Corp owes TiVo Inc more damages for infringing on its "Time Warp" digital video recorder, or DVR, technology.

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Investors, who expected the ruling on Thursday, sent TiVo's shares down 16.5 percent, or $1.44, to $7.31.

U.S. District Judge David Folsom said he would try to rule by October 1 but failing that, would have to delay a finding until after the end of that month, according to attorneys who attended the hearing.

The damages stem from a 2006 jury finding that EchoStar illegally used the TiVo-invented feature, which allows users to scan through a television program while it is recording.

TiVo lawyers argued in U.S. district court in Marshall, Texas that it is owed $220 million in royalties and lost profits for the 18 months that the verdict was stayed to allow EchoStar to appeal. EchoStar has admitted to owing $16 million in additional damages.

An appeals court ordered the trial judge to determine whether and what amount of additional damages are owed TiVo.

TiVo also argued on Thursday for sanctions against EchoStar for allegedly failing to turn off the DVRs, as required in the injunction. EchoStar, instead, continued collecting subscription fees for the infringing DVRs and replaced the infringing software with a "work-around" that does not use TiVo's patented technology, TiVo lawyers said.

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jacmyoung

Sep 6, 2008

Now let me get into a few Tivo investors comments a little, keep in mind they have taken things out of context, and only cited conversations which they found appeared to go Tivo's way, but if you read on you will agree it was in fact the opposite.

One of the things Tivo investors cited was when the DISH's lawyer told the judge the "colorable difference" finding would be a shame, meaning the DISH lawyer thought the judge should find DISH no longer infringing on Tivo's patent.

That was of course stupid for the DISH's lawyer to say that, and the judge laughed at that rightfully.

In a contempt proceeding, the judge is not allowed to determine if the design around is infringing on the Tivo patent or not, rather if the design around is more than colorably different compared to the old DISH design.

By questioning what the judge can or cannot do, it not only showed DISH lawyer's lack of judgment as far as what the standard is, but also disrespect for the judge.

To which later the judge tried to teach DISH lawyer a civics lesson, by asking him, did you think I could still find DISH in contempt? To which the DISH lawyer thought about it for some time and finally answered, yes you could still find DISH in contempt. But if so please stay the sanctions while we appealed. The judge said not likely if there was a contempt, but sure you could appeal.

The Tivo investors seized on that Q/A to believe it meant to say DISH will be in contempt, but it is not true.

What the judge was doing was to tell the DISH lawyer, you need to respect my power, in my court room, not to question my decision, whatever that may be in the future, rather calling any one decision "a shame."

Of course the judge can find DISH in contempt, if he decides that the design around is only colorable. The judge was also telling the DISH lawyer, if you wanted to challenge my decision do so in the future, during your appeal, but not in my court room.

The good thing was the DISH lawyer in the end gave the correct answer, he said yes your honor it was possible you could still find DISH in contempt, if the design around was only colorable.

That answer at least showed the lawyer finally understood what he could or could not tell the judge how the judge might make his decision. A good saving grace for him, even though it took him a minute to come up with that correct answer.

So in conclusion, the judge has shown his clear understanding of the rules and precedures, and what he must do and what he may not do, in a contempt proceeding. I am confident that he will rule DISH not in contempt because the DISH design around is substantial, and more than colorably different compared to the old design.

The only problem is giving DISH lawyer's misstep, I am not too sure if he himself still has the confidence, because he showed arrogance and over-confidence, to me it was actually a sign of lack of confidence.

Again my disclaimer, the above is based on the very limited court transcript, once the full version becomes avaiable, I will try to do another analysis, it is entirely possible some of my interpretations may not be accurate.

I was going to wait but since those TiVo investors and their market analysts have been busy again interpreting the judge's facial expressions, I thought to put my two cents in as well.

vampz26

Sep 6, 2008

You know, one needs to ask themselves something here...and in very simple terms at least...

At what point does the helpless victim, they poor guy crying that they on acting in self-defense, actually turn around and all of a sudden become the aggressor..aka...the 'Bully"....

I mean, what really happened here? Did someone on E*'s executive board insult the mother or wife of someone on the Tivo executive board? It almost seems way to personal...as if the goal is not just restitiution but to cripple and maim...

I don't know...but with the sudden delays and flip-flopping going on, I could only venture to guess that the governing bodies involved here must be thinking the same thing...

jacmyoung

Sep 6, 2008

vampz26 said:
You know, one needs to ask themselves something here...and in very simple terms at least...

At what point does the helpless victim, they poor guy crying that they on acting in self-defense, actually turn around and all of a sudden become the aggressor..aka...the 'Bully"....

I mean, what really happened here? Did someone on E*'s executive board insult the mother or wife of someone on the Tivo executive board? It almost seems way to personal...as if the goal is not just restitiution but to cripple and maim...

I don't know...but with the sudden delays and flip-flopping going on, I could only venture to guess that the governing bodies involved here must be thinking the same thing...

But think about it, if the new DISH design around stands, it can put TiVo out of business in the worst case, of course it is very personal

mike123abc

Sep 6, 2008

vampz26 said:
You know, one needs to ask themselves something here...and in very simple terms at least...

At what point does the helpless victim, they poor guy crying that they on acting in self-defense, actually turn around and all of a sudden become the aggressor..aka...the 'Bully"....

I mean, what really happened here? Did someone on E*'s executive board insult the mother or wife of someone on the Tivo executive board? It almost seems way to personal...as if the goal is not just restitiution but to cripple and maim...

I don't know...but with the sudden delays and flip-flopping going on, I could only venture to guess that the governing bodies involved here must be thinking the same thing...

Well there are hundreds of millions and perhaps billions at stake (future patent revenues). TiVo realises that Dish will probably get away with the software changes, so they want to be sure they get every penny. Then they will have to decide if they are going to have to fight the new software if the judge rules against them.

TiVo wants Dish to have no choice but to license the patent on their terms. They want $X/month from every Dish DVR subscriber. Dish would probably license the patent for a flat one time charge if it was offered that way, just to avoid all the hassel and possible bad outcomes. If TiVo wins this I bet we quickly see a deal where Dish licenses the patent at the $X/month TiVo wants, and if Dish wins, I still think there will be a license agreement, but it will be called a cross license agreement where they agree not to sue each other, work together, etc. Dish will probably pay some money (besides the previous amount of infringement) for the cross licensing.

jacmyoung

Sep 6, 2008

mike123abc said:
Well there are hundreds of millions and perhaps billions at stake (future patent revenues). TiVo realises that Dish will probably get away with the software changes, so they want to be sure they get every penny. Then they will have to decide if they are going to have to fight the new software if the judge rules against them.

TiVo wants Dish to have no choice but to license the patent on their terms. They want $X/month from every Dish DVR subscriber. Dish would probably license the patent for a flat one time charge if it was offered that way, just to avoid all the hassel and possible bad outcomes. If TiVo wins this I bet we quickly see a deal where Dish licenses the patent at the $X/month TiVo wants, and if Dish wins, I still think there will be a license agreement, but it will be called a cross license agreement where they agree not to sue each other, work together, etc. Dish will probably pay some money (besides the previous amount of infringement) for the cross licensing.

When you said if TiVo wins, I hope you meant if DISH fails on appeal. Even if the judge rules DISH in contempt, DISH can appeal, and the appeals court will almost certain to overturn the contempt ruling based on my reading of all prior cases similar to this one when the contempt rulings were overturned.

The question of course will be whether Charlie is as "stubborn" as he said he is to go all the way.

But if DISH wins, I agree a likely cross licensing agreement will be reached, but only if Charlie gets to keep a good portion of the money in the escrow. Otherwise there is no benefit to have an agreement since DISH can continue to sell their DVRs without threat. It will be very difficult for TiVo to sue DISH again to try to rule that the DISH new software still infringe.

Based on the new software evidence, DISH has removed all the elements that were considered to have infringed on the TiVo's patent, and usually when that happens, it is virtually a done deal.

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Scott Greczkowski

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge

Last reply 20 minutes ago · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Song Name Game Part 3!

Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne

Get it?

An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....

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long_time_Dish

Today at 12:33 AM

Cattle Call - Eddy Arnold

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hwkn

Today at 2:36 AM

CALL Of The Wild-Chris Ledoux

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ClarkGable

Today at 6:00 AM

Wild Thing - The Troggs

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dishstaller

Today at 8:23 AM

Crazy Little Thing Called Love - Queen

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sdfntx

20 minutes ago

Love Every Little Thing About You - Gallery

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dishstaller

Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter

Last reply 32 minutes ago · posted in The Chit Chat Club

You can't even trust the cost per ounce info in grocery stores anymore

I'm surprised Walmart hasn't banned this guy from all of their stores. He has been on their CASE the past few months.

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/f3zr37ekgKM?feature=share

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Jimbo

32 minutes ago

dishstaller said:
I'm surprised Walmart hasn't banned this guy from all of their stores. He has been on their CASE the past few months.

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/f3zr37ekgKM?feature=share

Walmart isn't the only one ...

Peter Parker

Supporting Founder Lifetime Supporter

Last reply 32 minutes ago · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

DISH Hopper 3 Software Version 713 Is Out

No idea what improvements might be involved.

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naptime

Sunday at 1:05 AM

I'm getting fabulous picture on Ch. 148 4k, but zero audio with H713. This is with a recorded show (Notre Dame game). Anyone else have this? Audio is fine on every other channel.

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jsmit86

Monday at 9:57 AM

naptime said:
I'm getting fabulous picture on Ch. 148 4k, but zero audio with H713. This is with a recorded show (Notre Dame game). Anyone else have this? Audio is fine on every other channel.

It's a known issue.
For a temporary fix, go into the menu, Audio, and turn Dolby Audio "OFF". You will have PCM stereo audio.

I was able to give the tech ops team some data logs so they could diagnose the problem, and they rolled me back to H708 temporarily. It fixed that issue.

They let me know that they understand what caused the issue, and it will be fixed within a few weeks in a new update.

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Almighty1

Monday at 4:07 PM

jsmit86 said:
It's a known issue.
For a temporary fix, go into the menu, Audio, and turn Dolby Audio "OFF". You will have PCM stereo audio.

I was able to give the tech ops team some data logs so they could diagnose the problem, and they rolled me back to H708 temporarily. It fixed that issue.

They let me know that they understand what caused the issue, and it will be fixed within a few weeks in a new update.

I guess they will be busy when lots of people start asking for rollbacks to H708 now that you mention that downgrades of software does exist because it will likely fix the OTA Single Tuner and the IR Remote problems in H710-H713.

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dishstaller

Monday at 10:34 PM

Almighty1 said:
it will likely fix the OTA Single Tuner

Oh....you were serious

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Almighty1

Yesterday at 10:09 PM

So after some heavy research, it looks like the issue I mentioned with the DISH 50.0/52.0/54.x remotes where on the 50.0/52.0 remotes, the dedicated TV Power button or on the 54.x remotes where it is using the TV button on the side followed by Power works correctly on a Hopper 3 which runs Linux but not on a Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus, Joey 4 and Wireless Joey 4 which are Android TV (ATV) has to do with the Android TV software itself. In all instances, the remotes had always sent out a dual RF and Infrared signal when the TV Power signal is sent from the remote. The Hopper 3 without the Plus would ignore the incoming RF power packet signal which is identified as a TV-specific toggle event, and does not trigger a system-wide standby state. The Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus, Joey 4 and Wireless Joey 4 as Android TV devices initially worked the same way as well up to sometime in 2025 as there was the legacy pass-through mode in the original software versions used since the Hopper Plus/Joey 4/Wireless Joey 4 launch, the receiver's underlying software essentially ignored the secondary RF payload that the 50.0/52.0/54.x remotes blasted out whenever the TV Power signal was sent. The Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus, Joey 4 and Wireless Joey 4 recognized it was a TV-specific command and discarded the RF packet, letting the standalone IR signal do its job on the tv.

When the software for the Hopper Plus, Joey 4 and Wireless Joey 4 were updated in 2025 and newer versions of the software for those Android TV (ATV) devices, it overhauled how the receiver handles remote commands to tighter integrate the Android TV environment which resulted in the software starting to treat any RF power toggle payload as a global command. As the newer software verion(s) no longer filters out the concurrent RF blast from the 50.0/52.0/54.0 remotes, the moment one sends a TV Power signal from the remote, the Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus, Joey 4 and Wireless Joey 4 catches that unintended RF payloadand interpets it as a command to drop the system into standby.

The fix is really simple since the Android TV (ATV) software for the Hopper Plus, Joey 4 and Wireless Joey 4 just needs to be programmed to drop or ignore the specific RF power packets associated with the TV Power signal sequence.

The problem could also be at the remotes firmware as the remote's firmware has an engineering defect. When you try to turn off the TV, the remote's internal code mistakenly triggers its RF transmitter alongside its IR transmitter. It should only be firing the IR light blast. Because it forces a simultaneous broadcast, the remote's firmware is the original source of the problem.

The Hopper Plus, Joey 4 and Wireless Joey firmware has a filtering defect. Good software design dictating peripheral inputs should include "error handling"—rules that tell the system what to do with messy or unintended commands.
• The legacy Hopper 3 firmware has proper error handling; it sees the remote's rogue RF packet and safely ignores it.
• The Android TV firmware in the Hopper Plu, Joey 4 and Wireless lacks this filtering logic. It blindly accepts the rogue RF packet and misinterprets it as a legitimate signal to force the entire system into standby.

If the remote didn't have a firmware bug, it wouldn't send the phantom RF signal. If the Android TV (ATV) device being the Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus, Joey 4 and Wireless Joey 4 didn't have a firmware bug, it would cleanly ignore the signal just like the Hopper 3 does.

brittanygarden and Rick Durham

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rvvaquero

Today at 8:08 AM

That's a lot of information to ingest. However, I don't have the Hopper Plus and my 54 remote is doing crazy things to the Hopper 3. Several times each evening when I press the skip forward button several times to advance through a commercial, it switches the receiver either onto live TV or into suspension. Other buttons will also cause this randomly, I haven't established any patterns I can describe. I use "recall" to go back to my recorded program in progress.

Needless to say, something in the newer Hopper 3 softwares has caused the remote functioning to ......................malfunction. Evidently, it applies to third party remotes as well as DISH's own remotes.

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GRB1959

Today at 8:12 AM

rvvaquero said:
That's a lot of information to ingest. However, I don't have the Hopper Plus and my 54 remote is doing crazy things to the Hopper 3. Several times each evening when I press the skip forward button several times to advance through a commercial, it switches the receiver either onto live TV or into suspension. Other buttons will also cause this randomly, I haven't established any patterns I can describe. I use "recall" to go back to my recorded program in progress.

Needless to say, something in the newer Hopper 3 softwares has caused the remote functioning to ......................malfunction. Evidently, it applies to third party remotes as well as DISH's own remotes.

This is exactly the same issue I was having as I had the Hopper 3 and 54 remote without the Hopper Plus and the symptoms were virtually identical to yours.

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ERSanders

32 minutes ago

We have had a corolary problem in this and the prior s/w. Using several different 40.0 remotes (yeah, we're old), when one pauses a live or recorded show it becomes a crap shoot whether it will step foreward the 30" as requested, jump to the end, or restart the episode. Tried the famous 60" reboot to no avail and have decided to live with it vs. a receiver swap risk.

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Bruce

Supporting Founder Lifetime Supporter

Last reply 33 minutes ago · posted in Internet Television (IPTV) Discussion Forum

How things have changed

I was reading this article

Cable TV ‘cord-cutters’ became the majority in 2022

The steady decline of cable and broadcast television, and the rise of streaming services, reached a sort of inflection point over the past year. Last summer, for the first time, streaming ser…

thehill.com

That said this-
Last summer, for the first time, streaming services like Netflix and Amazon Prime claimed the largest share of the television viewing audience, surpassing both cable and broadcast TV. Streaming captured 34.8 percent of July viewers, according to Nielsen data, compared to 34.4 percent for cable and 21.6 percent for broadcast.

And then, sometime in the second half of 2022, cord-cutters became the majority. The share of cable and satellite television subscribers dipped to 48 percent, according to a report from Samba TV, a television technology company.

Now I do not consider those with YTTV and the likes, Cord Cutters, but they still do not have Traditional Cable/Satellite delivered Live TV, so I decided to do the math.

There are, now, 129 Million Households in the United States.

In 2015, there were 100 Million Cable/Sat Subscribers , no streaming Live TV Service.

Today, there are 66 Million Live TV subscribers, including Cable, Satellite and Streaming.

Roughly, Streaming Live TV has 14 Million subs including all of them.

So that means, Cable/Satellite now has, roughly, 51 Million Households

So in just 8 years, lost 49% of their subscribers and by the end of this year, expected sub count to be, roughly, 45 million households.

That means a total loss of 55% since 2015 at the end of 2023.

But out of 129 Million households, 45 million will mean only 35% will get Cable/Satellite Delivered Live TV by the end of 2023.

Imagine what 2024 will be like.

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ncted

Sep 11, 2026

I for one find it disappointing that streaming has only managed a 49% market share thus far. Given how long ago Netflix streaming came out, I would have expected streaming to own way more than half of the eyeballs by now.

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Bruce

Sep 11, 2026

ncted said:
I for one find it disappointing that streaming has only managed a 49% market share thus far. Given how long ago Netflix streaming came out, I would have expected streaming to own way more than half of the eyeballs by now.

As more older folks pass away and leave Traditional Providers, the percentage for streaming will increase over time.

My son is 36, daughter 31, my fiancée's daughter is 30, her future husband is 31, none of them have ever had Traditional TV ( not even a service like YTTV) in their homes, just the streaming services.

I assume it is the same for the vast majority of under 40 year olds.

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dishdude

Sep 12, 2026

I like the updates, please keep them coming Bruce

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MikeD-C05

Sep 12, 2026

My 26 year old son doesn't want to use traditional sat or cable now and only uses streaming apps and he is not on them as much as we were with satellite, using it for back ground noise while we do other things around the house. He doesn't even care about antenna ota TV either. Mind you he had a satellite receiver in his room since he was born and didn't want one after he got to be a teenager. So I took it out. I mainly used it to load up kid shows on the Dvr , so he would be entertained while I was doing stuff around the house when he was a baby and toddler. So Gen Z will not care one bit about live TV services going the way of the Dodo bird.

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Bruce

Sep 16, 2026

Some interesting information was in this article-

50M subs might be the 'floor' for US pay-TV

Fifty million-plus subs could serve as the 'floor' for US pay-TV by 2030, reckons MoffettNathanson.

www.lightreading.com

This first-

The total pay-TV sector (traditional service providers and virtual MVPDs) shed 885,000 subscribers in Q2 2026

So with the loss of 2.03 Million in the first quarter, already at 2.915 Million gone this year, two quarters left to report.

#2-

The segment ended Q2 with 61.51 million subs comprising 27.5 million cable video subs, 21.42 million vMVPD customers, 9.56 million satellite TV customers, and 3.01 million telco TV subs.

There are approximately 133.97 million households in the United States, according to recent YCharts US Households Data from mid-2026.

That means more than 72 Million households do not have a paid live TV service, about 54% of the total.

What is worse, 7 years ago, paid live TV had over 80% of the population subscribing ( about 100 Million), almost all were Cable/Satellite customers.

Today, only about 37 Million subscribe to Cable/Satellite, less than 28% of our population.

#3-

At one time, Satellite TV (Dish and DirecTV), had about 34 Million subscribers added together, now, 9.56 Million.

That is over a 70% loss for those who subscribe to Satellite TV.

For Cable TV, not as bad, since they have broadband to help against the losses ( bundles), but as more options appear ( 5G, fiber, starlink, etc), I expect a big increase in those leaving cable.

Also expect YTTV to really start gaining even more subscribers, for those who still wish to have a live TV service, based on price point and it is a really great service.

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Bruce

33 minutes ago

Looks like Optimum Communications ( formerly CableVision) is collapsing, due to it's high debt, lenders/creditors are taking over-

The End of Another Major Cable TV Provider? Struggling With Over $21 Billion in Debt As It Has Lost Over Half of All of Its TV Customers As Creditors Are About to Take Over | Cord Cutters News

Optimum Communications is approaching a debt restructuring agreement that would transfer control of the U.S. broadband and cable provider to a group of its primary lenders, according to people familiar with the discussions. The proposed transaction would also resolve ongoing litigation between...

cordcuttersnews.com

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meStevo

Lifetime Supporter

Last reply 45 minutes ago · posted in The Chit Chat Club

AI thread

A continuation of a thread from the pub, just general discussion of AI.

Brief 60 minute clip about next gem autonomous fighters - not remote controlled, but rather collaborating with controllers and aircraft in the theater.

View: https://youtu.be/DRm0mbp_n1k

We've literally got a movie already about this

View: https://youtu.be/a2PW7a9ViDc

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meStevo

Oct 9, 2026

Agreed, it mostly regurgitates known solutions. That's the point. Nobody needs an innovative fix for a driver error or a creative way to format a report. Let it handle the solved problems so people can spend their time on the ones that aren't.

harshness

Oct 9, 2026

meStevo said:
Agreed, it mostly regurgitates known solutions. That's the point.

That's the point at which innovation ends, and there's no longer any point to software engineering other than swatting bugs that result from misapplication.

meStevo

Oct 9, 2026

harshness said:
That's the point at which innovation ends, and there's no longer any point to software engineering other than swatting bugs that result from misapplication.

Addressed by what you didn't quote. This cycle is as old as computing: compilers, libraries, frameworks each automated the tedious part, and the human work moved up a level. Innovation didn't end; it shifted. And people still make new compilers, libraries or frameworks.

Nobody's forced to hand anything off. Anyone who wants to keep doing it by hand still can, and people who couldn't do it at all now can.

harshness

Oct 9, 2026

meStevo said:
... and people who couldn't do it at all now can.

Misapplication isn't something that the casual coder can identify. They can only discover, the hard way, that it doesn't work at some point.

meStevo

Oct 9, 2026

harshness said:
Misapplication isn't something that the casual coder can identify. They can only discover, the hard way, that it doesn't work at some point.

You're not wrong, but that's part of learning. Whether from others or our own mistakes, we've all learned that lesson one way or another.

harshness

Oct 9, 2026

meStevo said:
Whether from others or our own mistakes, we've all learned that lesson one way or another.

I'm not sure that the school of hard knocks is the quickest or surest education to find your way.

There are many examples in the headlines of people getting burned multiple times and not wavering in their pursuit of stupidity.

meStevo

Oct 9, 2026

harshness said:
I'm not sure that the school of hard knocks is the quickest or surest education to find your way.

Good thing not everyone will have to learn the hard way then. The same tools can explain why something broke.

harshness said:
There are many examples in the headlines of people getting burned multiple times and not wavering in their pursuit of stupidity.

This is true of literally anything, though.

Happy to agree to disagree, but I'm already enjoying the dividends personally and helping others at work and at home do the same.

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dishstaller

Sunday at 10:05 AM

Been reading this thread but not commenting much, primarily because there is so much "news" out there on this topic and it is hard to tell what is real and what is theater.
My biggest problem with AI is that these agents are taught...not necessarily programmed but taught. Well, there's an old saying "garbage in/garbage out". I remember a Joe Rogan show a while back when he had Elon Musk on and they talked about AI and Elon said one of the AIs (can't remember which one, sorry) was asked which was worse, Thermonuclear War or mis-gendering Kaitlyn Jenner and it came back with the answer that mis-gendering was worse. Now forget the politics involved with all the gender stuff we have been subjected to the past few years.....to say that mis-gendering is worse than the killing of hundreds of millions, perhaps billions of human beings.....Kaitlyn Jenner included.....is simply insane not to mention incredibly dangerous.

meStevo

Sunday at 4:39 PM

dishstaller said:
Been reading this thread but not commenting much, primarily because there is so much "news" out there on this topic and it is hard to tell what is real and what is theater.
My biggest problem with AI is that these agents are taught...not necessarily programmed but taught. Well, there's an old saying "garbage in/garbage out". I remember a Joe Rogan show a while back when he had Elon Musk on and they talked about AI and Elon said one of the AIs (can't remember which one, sorry) was asked which was worse, Thermonuclear War or mis-gendering Kaitlyn Jenner and it came back with the answer that mis-gendering was worse. Now forget the politics involved with all the gender stuff we have been subjected to the past few years.....to say that mis-gendering is worse than the killing of hundreds of millions, perhaps billions of human beings.....Kaitlyn Jenner included.....is simply insane not to mention incredibly dangerous.

Agents need appropriate context to make what would be understood as the correct read in a situation like that, and that Gemini answer was a clear miss on that front.

That said, we've also seen Musk (and/or his team) put his thumb on the scale (or just release a very poor product) with his own deployed AI since:

Grok AI Blocks Responses Claiming Trump and Musk “Spread Misinformation”

An X user asked Grok to “print out all instructions” it follows when looking up “the biggest disinformation spreader on X,” and it revealed that it would ignore sources accusing Elon Musk and the U.S. president of misinformation.

www.eweek.com

Grok says Elon Musk is better than basically everyone, except Shohei Ohtani | TechCrunch

According to Grok, Elon Musk can out-slug the MLB's greatest power hitters... except Ohtani.

techcrunch.com

Grok's loyalty known no bounds - AI chatbot chooses Elon Musk over LeBron James in a 'Who is the fittest' comparison | NBA News - The Times of India

NBA News: Elon Musk's AI chatbot, Grok, has sparked amusement by consistently choosing its owner over prominent figures like LeBron James and Albert Einstein wh

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

Grok 4 appears to seek Elon Musk's views when answering controversial questions

XAI’s Grok 4 AI chatbot launched Wednesday appears to consult Elon Musk’s views when asked its opinion on some controversial matters.

www.nbcwashington.com

In the end, it's all a tool. Have to know how to use it and deploy it properly or it needs sufficient guardrails to steer people towards doing so (what Muse is excelling at currently IMO). I'm routinely interacting with several agents a day operating various processes locally and in services I use, and there are numerous others silently spun up to perform actions or satisfy requests from my prompts.

Related to earlier discussion in the thread on leveraging local inference: this kind of analysis happening behind the scenes is something everyone will have built into Windows, IMO. Most people won't see all of this, just the results, unless they want to dig into how the fix was chosen. Stuff like this will be standard as agents get local system access baked in, and more of the inference itself moves on-device.

telstar_1

Sunday at 5:08 PM

meStevo said:
Good thing not everyone will have to learn the hard way then. The same tools can explain why something broke.

This is true of literally anything, though.

Happy to agree to disagree, but I'm already enjoying the dividends personally and helping others at work and at home do the same.

You invested in datacenters?

meStevo

Sunday at 5:36 PM

telstar_1 said:
You invested in datacenters?

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dividend#:~:text=2,finally%20paying%20dividends

Though, I do have stocks in my portfolio that benefit from data centers.

dishstaller

Today at 12:21 AM

Too stinking funny...how to fry the mind of AI robo calls

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk3jCuITwcE

dishstaller

45 minutes ago

In this clip, Matt Walsh discusses how AI is making a lot of sites useless

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hi-WOwZDFTI

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iJustine

53 minutes ago · posted in iJustine

Apple’s iPhone Duo Cases

Time for another AWESOME video from iJustine!

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/HM1qkXisqEc

Direct YouTube Link - Apple's iPhone Duo Cases
The official iJustine Website's Website
Buy her book!

0 Replies · 5 views

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JohnGalt1234

Last reply Today at 8:48 AM · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

H3 EHD lists upcoming airings instead of recordings on EHD and often won't recognize EHD is connected after reboot

This started a couple months ago. I have 2 H3s on one network, both with 2 EHD identical 3 TB seperately powered so all recordings are accessible by all 4k & J4s (8 of them).

On one H3 (not the main one that controls the MOCA network), after it reboots, it doesn't recognize it has two EHDs plugged into it. Rebooting the EHD by their power source doesn't fix it. Resetting the network doesn't. Software h3 reset doesn't fix it. Rebooting MOCA h3 doesn't fix it but so far, after 3+ cold boots (unplug pwr to H3 with unrecognized EHDs), it finally it figures out they are plugged into it. BUT.... Then when you open a program it only partially shows series and episodes, but instead of showing recordings, it only shows upcoming airings. HELP!!!!

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navychop

Saturday at 3:40 PM

It'll only see two EHDs at a time.

Reactions: Bobby and charlesrshell

Almighty1

Saturday at 7:18 PM

JohnGalt1234 - So you basically have 2 Hopper 3's. The CasinoH3 is the one that is Hopper 3 only while Master Bedroom is a Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus setup.
Master Bedroom uses Android TV (ATV) software so the DISH part is actually a app and will behave differently as you can probably tell the Guide's are different on the Master Bedroom which will resemble the same guide used on other ATV devices such as the Joey 4 and Wireless Joey 4. If I am correct, the CasinoH3 is the one with the problem since you did say the one dated 09/05/2026 is the naughty one while 08/15/2026 named Master Bedroom is the nice one. Usually I would expect the CasinoH3 to be the one without the problem because it's Hopper 3 only and Master Bedroom would be the one with problems because it has the Hopper Plus involved. That is why they behave differently because CasinoH3 is running the native Hopper 3 software while Master Bedroom is running the Android TV software and also it runs a app called DISH known as package com.dish.atv.launcher, the version for mines is P15403 2026100917 so it's probably the same version as the Hopper Plus software version with the date of October 9, 2026, not sure what the 17 means except maybe revision 17?

This explains it better than I can. Sorry, had to take all the ads out.

Reactions: charlesrshell

JohnGalt1234

Saturday at 9:02 PM

Almighty1 said:
JohnGalt1234 - So you basically have 2 Hopper 3's. The CasinoH3 is the one that is Hopper 3 only while Master Bedroom is a Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus setup.
Master Bedroom uses Android TV (ATV) software so the DISH part is actually a app and will behave differently as you can probably tell the Guide's are different on the Master Bedroom which will resemble the same guide used on other ATV devices such as the Joey 4 and Wireless Joey 4. If I am correct, the CasinoH3 is the one with the problem since you did say the one dated 09/05/2026 is the naughty one while 08/15/2026 named Master Bedroom is the nice one. Usually I would expect the CasinoH3 to be the one without the problem because it's Hopper 3 only and Master Bedroom would be the one with problems because it has the Hopper Plus involved. That is why they behave differently because CasinoH3 is running the native Hopper 3 software while Master Bedroom is running the Android TV software and also it runs a app called DISH known as package com.dish.atv.launcher, the version for mines is P15403 2026100917 so it's probably the same version as the Hopper Plus software version with the date of October 9, 2026, not sure what the 17 means except maybe revision 17?

This explains it better than I can. Sorry, had to take all the ads out.

View attachment 194857

As I understand it, the android is just the display signal from the hopper+. I can disconnect the H+ and plug the hdmi directly into the master hopper3.

Reactions: charlesrshell

Almighty1

Sunday at 12:02 AM

JohnGalt1234 said:
As I understand it, the android is just the display signal from the hopper+. I can disconnect the H+ and plug the hdmi directly into the master hopper3.

It is not just a display signal as explained above. When you have the Hopper+ connected, it uses Android TV for pretty much everything except for the satellite signal which is why it uses the DISH app for the standard Hopper 3 functions. But that should not matter because in your case, CasinoH3 is the Hopper 3 with the EHD which is what you call the naughty one based on the dates you mentioned and Master Bedroom which has the Hopper Plus connected to the Hopper 3 that does not have the problem. So one way to test the theory is disconnect the Hopper Plus from that Hopper 3 and then use the EHD's connected to CasinoH3 currently to see if the same issue exists. That way you will know if the problem is there without a Hopper Plus connected or if CasinoH3 is just a bad hopper to begin with.

Normally when you disconnect the Hopper Plus, it will be 30 minutes or more before you can use the Hopper 3 again.

What you want to do is:
hold the POWER button in, not the red reset button, for about 45 seconds or so while disconnecting the power to the Plus and moving the HDMI cable and it will reboot to the normal Hopper only immediately.

Reactions: charlesrshell

bookworm370

Sunday at 1:41 PM

navychop said:
It'll only see two EHDs at a time.

Yes, I have only two online at a time.
One comes online, the other one consistently will not come online

Reactions: charlesrshell

bookworm370

Sunday at 1:49 PM

bookworm370 said:
Yes, I have only two online at a time.
One comes online; the other consistently won't. Also, when I connect the EHD, the USB Detected status light on the EHD itself changes from Red to Green. But the Hopper (713) does not start the EHD read process. The light changes to indicate that the EHD has detected a valid USB cable, but the Hopper does not recognize it.

JohnGalt1234

Today at 8:48 AM

Almighty1 said:
It is not just a display signal as explained above. When you have the Hopper+ connected, it uses Android TV for pretty much everything except for the satellite signal which is why it uses the DISH app for the standard Hopper 3 functions. But that should not matter because in your case, CasinoH3 is the Hopper 3 with the EHD which is what you call the naughty one based on the dates you mentioned and Master Bedroom which has the Hopper Plus connected to the Hopper 3 that does not have the problem. So one way to test the theory is disconnect the Hopper Plus from that Hopper 3 and then use the EHD's connected to CasinoH3 currently to see if the same issue exists. That way you will know if the problem is there without a Hopper Plus connected or if CasinoH3 is just a bad hopper to begin with.

Normally when you disconnect the Hopper Plus, it will be 30 minutes or more before you can use the Hopper 3 again.

What you want to do is:
hold the POWER button in, not the red reset button, for about 45 seconds or so while disconnecting the power to the Plus and moving the HDMI cable and it will reboot to the normal Hopper only immediately.

Yeah, I read through that and understand that now. It rebooted itself last night and upgraded to H713, and lost the EHDs again. As usual, power cycling the EHDs, did nothing, software H3 reboot didn't either, but it only took one cold boot to get them to come back.

Did you ever answer how to trigger that external hard drive test? Had the guys over Saturday to watch college football and BS (mostly BS) and in my rec room (casino H3) I have two TVs one from Casino H3, and the other either duplicates the H3 (if we only want to watch one game) or a separate Joey4 if we want to watch 2 games. In the last Quarter of the Rutgers at Maryland game, Casino H3 decided it wanted to do that EHD test, which it said could take up to 100 mins. I set up the game on tablet with dish anywhere for two guys most interested in that game because I wanted to see what the test said when it was completed. I missed it but the EHDs were working fine and I put the game back on that TV (took about 15 mins for the test).

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dishstaller

Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter

Today at 8:34 AM · posted in The Chit Chat Club

From a time when people could still laugh

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/jBF0myQWJaE?feature=share

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Marques Brownlee

Today at 8:22 AM · posted in Marques Brownlee

iPhone Duo Review: First Generation Fun!

Time for another AWESOME video from Marques Brownlee!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESABTN4VtrA

Direct YouTube Link - iPhone Duo Review: First Generation Fun!
The official MKBHD Website!
The MKBHD Store

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iJustine

Today at 8:22 AM · posted in iJustine

iPhone Duo Unboxing!

Time for another AWESOME video from iJustine!

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Fy1G8zjCEPc

Direct YouTube Link - iPhone Duo Unboxing!
The official iJustine Website's Website
Buy her book!

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