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A
Last reply · posted in Over the Air Television By RabbitEars.Info
I'm trying to gather some information now in preparation for the shutoff of analog stations in February. As background, last year some incompetent tree trimmers managed to destroy our TV antenna, as well as a portion of our roof. Since we had to have the antenna replaced anyway we decided to kick in some bucks and erect a taller tower and get the best deep-fringe antenna that the installer offered (can't remember the model number offhand but I think it is a deep-fringe Winegard model). All of our local stations except one are about 30 to 70 miles away and pretty much in the same direction. The exception is about 20 miles away and puts in a fairly strong signal (so much so that we get clear reception even though the transmitter is at a side angle to the antenna!). This spring we added a Winegard HDP-269 booster, which was the most we dared add given that one relatively close station, plus a low-power repeater that is only a few miles away. The booster did improve reception on all channels.

Two of the weakest stations, which we have been unable to get totally reliably despite our best efforts, are the NBC and CBS affiliates on channels 8 (digital 7) and 3 (digital 2, but will be moving to digital 8 after February. This last one is significant, as you will see). On both of those we can just about count on losing the digital signal for a few seconds a few times during a half hour program. Often when it happens you can hear a plane passing overhead.

There is another CBS affiliate that (according to TVFool) will actually be putting a stronger digital signal into our area after the February transition, when it moves to its current analog channel which is 9. But it is in almost the opposite direction from the other channels (think of it this way, the others are at about the 5 o'clock position from us, this one's at 1 o'clock). I'm wondering if I could put up a separate antenna for that one channel and combine it with the signals from the other channels, without it costing an arm and a leg. Were it not for the fact that the OTHER CBS affiliate is moving to Channel 8, this would be easy - use a single channel Channel Master Join-Tenna to insert the single channel. But there is this note about those:

Note: There is significant attenuation on either side of the channel the JoinTenna is tuned for. We do not recommend using a JoinTenna if you have a channel immediately adjacent.
​
I even wondered if there is a way to feed the second antenna into something that would convert one channel to another (in other words, convert Channel 9 down to something like channel 6 before feeding it into the system). If you did that BEFORE inserting it onto the feed from the other antenna, it would eliminate all the other potential issues (such as multipath, etc.). But the only piece of equipment I could find that would do that (Pico Macom's DSP806) has such prohibitive cost that you'd have to be a cable operator to afford it, or at least a lot better off than I am.

I should mention that we are feeding two buildings (about 300 feet apart) and at least four TV's from this one tower, so using a separate feed and a switch at each TV is a non-starter for me - I'd do without CBS before I'd resort to that. But I'm wondering if anyone might know of a way to do this that I'm overlooking. For example, something like a Join-Tenna that has a sharper notch, so it doesn't degrade adjacent channels, or maybe a consumer-grade version of the Pico Macom unit (and if none exists, there is something that could be very useful if someone could come up with a consumer-grade unit in the $100 range-all it needs to do is convert one channel from an antenna to another without degrading signal quality, and allow that channel to be inserted into an existing feed. So it would need two inputs, one for the antenna and one or the "feed", be that another antenna or a cable feed or whatever, and then a combined output).

With all the posts I read in various forums about the problem of combining signals from multiple antennas without introducing multipath, or having one antenna cancel out the other, I'm really surprised there isn't a better selection of consumer-grade equipment to handle this. And then there are the folks who want to insert one "local" channel (be it an over-the-air channel or something from an in-home application such as a security camera) into a cable feed into their home, and I am just really surprised that Channel Master or Winegard or some similar company hasn't seen any need to create a unit that meets that need. If you don't need the reliability of a cable headend then I would THINK it should be possible to create such a unit that would sell for $100 or less. You can buy consumer grade Free-To-Air satellite receivers for $150 or less these days, and I have to think that the circuitry in those is far more complicated than the circuitry needed to upshift or downshift one TV channel in frequency. In fact, I'd bet the circuitry in a $50-$60 DTV converter box is more complicated than what would be required for this application. Any thoughts?

One other question: Assuming the other issues can be resolved, anyone know of a relatively inexpensive source for single channel antennas (preferably one cut for channel 9)?
21 Replies · 10288 views
dlsnyder
The cable box that I used did not detect the analog signal then convert it to another channel. It actually passed the RF through, downconverting whatever was on the input channel to the output channel. This should work for passing an ATSC channel through just as well as what I used it for back in the day. Combine that with the channel inserter that he had planned on using in the original post and that may do the trick.

Another thing that I used for awhile back in my cable days was a block converter that I bought from Radio Shack that took all of the VHF-high cable channels and converted them to UHF to use with a standard non-cable ready TV. There may be a way to use something like that in this situation as well.
A
The ideal thing...

The most ideal way of doing it would be to receive the ATSC, extract the raw data stream, then take that data stream and re-modulate it onto a different ATSC channel. Note I did not say DECODE the data stream, although if any error correction could be applied at this point to reconstitute a damaged data stream (insofar as possible), that would be great.

The next most ideal way would be to do a strict RF frequency upconversion or downconversion, so that the ATSC data stream remains as received off the antenna.

But no, I really would not want to convert the signal to analog and then feed an analog signal downstream - that kind of defeats the whole purpose. And yes, I am trying to do it without spending tons of money on commercial grade equipment. This is not a situation where I'm able to charge anyone or make any money on the service (think family members living on adjacent property!).
T
If you wanted a UHF-VHF converter try this one:

XUV : Single Channel UHF to VHF Converter

It's designed for analog, but DTV should make it through.
A
The OP is going to have a digital 8 from one direction and a digital 9 from another, and the 9 will be stronger? This may prove to be easy. It could be that a simple dipole will receive both. I receive a digital 42 from one direction and a digital 43 from 160 degrees away, so I took the backscreen off a Channel Master 4-bay bowtie and then put a 42-43 bandpass filter on the output and I integrate that signal pair into a master antenna system that serves a 100+ unit, ten story condominium.

If those are the only two VHF highband (7-13) channels, then one can filter them for combining with the lowband (3?) and UHF by "filtering" them using the high side of a Hi-lo combiner (HLSJ) and the low, or VHF, side of a UVSJ. Those are three dollar parts.

You can probably accomplish the same thing using a channel 8 Jointenna. The adjacent channel filtering of a VHF highband Jointennas results in a relatively gentle slope, probaly less than ten dB, across the adjacent channel. That much slope would kill NTSC analog picture quality but will not kill a healthy digiital signal. But if they are the only two VHF high channels, the HLSJ, UVSJ filtering is best. VHF Jointennas are not tunable, whereas UHF Jointennas are tunable.

As far as using the XUV heterodyne converters are concerned, you will not believe how much out of band noise they generate. I mean, it is incredible. I set up one to convert a UHF signal to channel 3 and another to channel 6 (I can field tune them with my spectrum analyzer), and the channel 6 converter's output put a ton of visible interference on an analog 2 house channel. I had to put a bandpass filter with about 50dB of depth on that output to salvage the availability of channel 2.

Also, the XUV inputs can only be tuned to UHF channels. How strong does TV fool say the post transition digital channels 8 and 9 will be?
R
I dont think some people understood my previous responces correctly. The old Channel Master instruction setup pages show theory. The antennas pointed direction do not need to be the same. The postings are just technical examples of what can be done with 300 ohm wire compared to an expensive multi 75 ohm antenna coax combiner system.
Scott Greczkowski
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne


Get it?


An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....
68668 Replies · 2680766 views
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ClarkGable
Long Train Runnin' - The Doobie Brothers
dishstaller
Midnight Train to Georgia - Gladys Knight & The Pips
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harshness
After Midnight - Eric Clapton
Bobby
Gotta Give A Little Love (Ten Years After) - Timmy Thomas
gms49ers
Hear Me Calling - Ten Years After
TheRatPatrol
Last reply · posted in TV Shows
Anyone else watch this show? Any guesses as to what was in the box Gibbs gave to Abby that was on her desk? It look liked it was glowing.

I also heard that someone was leaving the show at the end of this season. Any guesses as to who thats going to be?
2136 Replies · 215310 views
Jimbo

Howard ...
You don't like Tony, or Tony as the Director (he's only been there for 30 seconds now) or you don't like NCIS ?
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Howard Simmons
Howard ...
You don't like Tony, or Tony as the Director (he's only been there for 30 seconds now) or you don't like NCIS ?
Tony as the director.🙄
Jimbo
Tony as the director.🙄
Would you rather have LaRoche ???
Howard Simmons
Would you rather have LaRoche ???
No. Bring in someone new.🤔 Tony is not serious enough for me. Parker is too close to the team and Tim is too young to take over IMO.
Jimbo
No. Bring in someone new.🤔 Tony is not serious enough for me. Parker is too close to the team and Tim is too young to take over IMO.
I don't think Tim and Tony are that far apart in Age ...

Remember what Tony said to Tim when they first got back together ...
Tony said: I am the New Tony, Tim .... (something to that effect)

Tony has changed, he's been running his Security Business ... I'm sure he has grown up.

Give it time ... your judging the New Tony from the old Tony.

It sounds like Tim won't be around the Team much longer either.
KAB
KAB
I wonder it they will show the teased meeting (in Origins) with Tony and Gibbs.
Jimbo
I wonder it they will show the teased meeting (in Origins) with Tony and Gibbs.
I'm curious how they are going to implement Tony into Origins (If they do) ...
Tony was introduced to Gibbs and the team, on NCIS, which makes it the Mothership side of things, he worked in Baltimore prior to NCIS, NO mention when they met that anyone had known one another ...
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Jimbo
I wonder it they will show the teased meeting (in Origins) with Tony and Gibbs.
Teased Meeting ?
dfergie
I didn't recognize him till I saw this... (William Katt)

View: https://youtu.be/n9S3F87A588?si=tU_YQX6h3vDmrGEf

Good episode.
dishstaller
Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
This should hit a lot of folks with a dose of reality. I can only imagine how much more common this will get as AI progresses.

I read several stories on this and most are clear as mud. They say a lot of the stolen bitcoin has been "locked out" and that everyone will be made financially whole. I guess time will tell if either of these statements are actually true.

1 Replies · 13 views
harshness
They say a lot of the stolen bitcoin has been "locked out" and that everyone will be made financially whole.
The "Secure Asset Fund" had about $1 billion in reserves... in Bitcoin.

The fund started in 2018, so it may take a while to make investors whole, much less replenish the fund.
dishstaller
Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
It states the average amount they are under water is OVER $7,000. :eek

Personally, I tend to be the type that drives a vehicle for a lot of years....do my own oil changes and other fluid changes. Just replaced the spark plugs and a couple coils. Youtube is great for things like this.

2 Replies · 75 views
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Juan
I guess America can't afford 10 year autoloans
harshness
I guess America can't afford 10 year autoloans
I'm pretty sure the most you can get is seven.

What America can't afford is the payments on $80,000+ pickups and SUVs and $40,000+ crossovers.
Neutron
Supporting Founder
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
Patrick Stewart died yesterday, October 28th at the age of 86. We lost yet another great actor. :(

10 Replies · 135 views
M
R.I.P.
mc6809e
Rest In Peace
sdfntx
R.I.P., Jean-Luc.
meStevo
Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in TV Shows
Starting a thread klang !

After an amazing first 2 seasons and an 8 episode 3rd season still coming this year, season 4 has now been greenlit.

Keri Russell Wow GIF by NETFLIX
12 Replies · 1042 views
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K
Finished season 3 last night. Still one of my favorite shows.

Anyone else wonder if there might be something else going on with Callum? Seems to me he has too much access to Russian intelligence.
meStevo
One episode into season 4 that dropped today...

Jon Stewart Popcorn GIF
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meStevo
Renewed for season 5.
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K
Finished 4 last night. Great stuff.

They do like to end each season with a Bang!
KAB
KAB
Finished 4 last night. Great stuff.

They do like to end each season with a Bang!
Great ending, but it ran in circles most of the season.
M
Last reply · posted in DISH Network Support Forum
Over the past few weeks, I have had problems connecting to streaming services (Netflix, HBO et al). When I go to the TV's native Channels, I have no problem. The Dish internet troubleshooter shows I have a good internet connection. I'm wondering whether it's an issue with my internet provider or a problem with the Dish software on the Hopper Plus. Anyone else seeing this?
5 Replies · 240 views
Almighty1
Over the past few weeks, I have had problems connecting to streaming services (Netflix, HBO et al). When I go to the TV's native Channels, I have no problem. The Dish internet troubleshooter shows I have a good internet connection. I'm wondering whether it's an issue with my internet provider or a problem with the Dish software on the Hopper Plus. Anyone else seeing this?
I have a DISH Hopper 3 (Software H713) with Hopper Plus (Software P15403). I have not tried streaming services but I primarily watch TVB Jadeworld international package which is only available by streaming and when I have an issue, I usually have to go to a non-streaming satellite channel first before the streaming channels will work again. What software versions do you have and what is the error message if any are showing on your screen? or is that Dish downloading logo just stuck and never finishes?
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M
I have a DISH Hopper 3 (Software H713) with Hopper Plus (Software P15403). I have not tried streaming services but I primarily watch TVB Jadeworld international package which is only available by streaming and when I have an issue, I usually have to go to a non-streaming satellite channel first before the streaming channels will work again. What software versions do you have and what is the error message if any are showing on your screen? or is that Dish downloading logo just stuck and never finishes?
I'm on H713 on the Hopper and P15403 on the Hopper Plus. It shows internet connection issues and doesn't finish loading the various services. I see the "loading circle going around. Sometimes I get a message saying that the service is having trouble loading my content and to check the internet connection.
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Almighty1
I'm on H713 on the Hopper and P15403 on the Hopper Plus. It shows internet connection issues and doesn't finish loading the various services. I see the "loading circle going around. Sometimes I get a message saying that the service is having trouble loading my content and to check the internet connection.
Did it ever work correctly before? Hard to say what the problem is. Usually for streaming, it will show the Dish logo with lines sweeping down to show downloading, never seen the circle issue. Did you try a manual reboot, red button reset, power cord unplug/replug to see if it makes a difference.
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S
Did it ever work correctly before? Hard to say what the problem is. Usually for streaming, it will show the Dish logo with lines sweeping down to show downloading, never seen the circle issue. Did you try a manual reboot, red button reset, power cord unplug/replug to see if it makes a difference.
Might be worth just to ditch the hopper plus. No issues here on h713
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S
Over the past few weeks, I have had problems connecting to streaming services (Netflix, HBO et al). When I go to the TV's native Channels, I have no problem. The Dish internet troubleshooter shows I have a good internet connection. I'm wondering whether it's an issue with my internet provider or a problem with the Dish software on the Hopper Plus. Anyone else seeing this?
Buy a roku and dump the hopper plus you'll be better off. If you have a smart tv you don't need either one. No hopper plus here and no issues!!!