Social Feed

SandraC

Last reply Feb 17, 2009 · posted in The Sports Section

Here is a real approach to attacking steroid use in baseball

So many well-meaing posters here and other places come on with grand announcements that baseball should ban players who test positive, remove records of those who test positive, etc., etc. They make it sound like all it takes is an announcement by Bug Selig, and it is done.

When Selig feels like he has to say something and announces he'll look into suspending A-Rod, even he knows how ridiculous that sounds. He says the possibility is unlikely IN THE SAME ANNOUNCEMENT. But at least he's saying what he feels should happen.

Anything and everything regarding steroids and testing has to be collecively bargained with the union. That's how it works. In the 90's, if the league brought up steroids during contract talks, the union packed their bags and left the room. The MLBPA was dragged into any kind of steroid testing kicking and screaming, and apparently Gene Orza was tipping off players, telling them when their test would be back in the early 00's, in the hope that not enough players would test positive, and testing of any kind would go away.

So now in 2009, as past transgressions are coming to light one by one (and there are at least 103 more transgressions to come to light, if not thousands), the MLBPA still has no interest in further testing or stricter penalties. None. As constituted now, the union will never bargain that into an agreement. Ever. So everyone can stop with baseball needs to this or baseball needs to do that. They can't do it. Not by themselves, anyway.

But there is hope. Assuming in theory there are more players are NOT using PED's than those who are, it can be argued the union is not acting in the best interest of it's union members. Protecting those who cheat hurts their union members who don't cheat, or worse, encourages them to cheat.

I would like to think the players who don't cheat are pretty sick and tired of watching those who do cheat achieve more fame and fortune, and for a longer period of time, than they would have if they hadn't cheated. Roy Oswalt pretty much came out and said that this week, specifically saying A-Rod going 3 for 5 against him in his lifetime may have cost him money. It's a stretch, but it's a valid point.

But the real point is that there are hundreds of A-Rod's, people who are achieving more than they would if they didn't cheat. Let's for the sake of argument say Oswalt is telling the truth and he's never cheated. It's impossible to believe anything anymore, and nobody would even be surprised if the least likely players of all are one day revealed to be cheaters. I don't care what they look like, everyone is a suspect in my eyes. After Rafael Palmeiro waved his finger at congress then tested positive, I don't believe anyone anymore.

But let's say Oswalt doesn't cheat. Instead of coming out and saying A-Rod should be treated this way or that way, he should go to HIS UNION and demand they do more to find out who is cheating and who isn't. Tell his union they should allow the best testing possible, whether that's Olympics-style testing, or whatever is the best testing available right now. And if you can't test for HGH right now, even with a blood test, allow the blood to be stored any impartial way the union wants, so that if and when a test is developed, the blood can be tested at that point.

Stop with the bluster, Roy, and start dong something to effect real change. And bring all of your non-cheating union members with you. Maybe you've done this behind closed doors already, I don't know. If you did, that's not working. The union is as steadfast as ever in it's defiance to more testing and the lifetime bans we talk about.

So go public with your opinions. Tell everyone you want more testing. What do you care? You won't test positive. And recruit all of your 'clean' baseball playing brethren with you. Make your voices known. Tell everyone you want the game cleaned up.

If Orza and Fehr don't go along with you, lobby for a change at the top of the union. Get someone in who is truly working for all of the players, not just the dirty ones. It's been done in sports before, a number of times. These guys aren't kings for life, they have to be voted in again and again. Stop voting them in.

Stop complaining, Roy (and all the other clean players), and do what's right.

Sandra

56 Replies · 5215 views

Load Replies (56) Reply Legacy View

salsadancer7

Feb 13, 2009

A few things.

FIRST, has there EVER been a comprehensive test proving once and for all, that PEDs actually make players better? Reason I ask that is because Marvin Miller brought that up in a conversation with local sports show host Dan LeBatard. Made me think, the ONLY thing that they have done has been compare the numbers...that is it. NOTHING scientific...NOTHING with doctors. Didn't you once say to me, 'you can manipulate numbers to say anything'? Well, the same can be said, under your logic about comparing numbers when it was used and not used.

Here is what I think should be done. 1st and foremost, DO NOT RELEASE the names of the other 100 players UNLESS the UNION VOTES to do AND IF the player/s are still playing, they got total immunity from any punishment. WHY? Because they were supposed to be sealed documents, MLB offices AGREED TO THIS. The LAST THING baseball needs, is this over their heads ALL season, ESPECIALLY if there are players still playing in the list of 100 players that tested positive.

SECONDLY, the players union will vote for ANY testing IF they get something in return. WE ALL know it takes negociating. Right now, the way MLB has it set up for testing....it HAS to stay. WHY? Do you think the players will ever trust the owners again after all this leaking? NOW is not the time to negociate...gotta wait till things cool off and PRIVATELY wheel and deal. Once things cool down, the players will negociate....truth be told, I do not blame them...they were told the names would never get out.

And FINALLY....

1st offense, 1/3 of the season suspension WITHOUT PAY.
2nd offense, the WHOLE SEASON and proof of being clean AT LEAST 8 months.
3 offense, indefinate suspension, MUST be clean for at least 18 months....and the team has the option to completely terminate the contract.

cosmo_kramer

Feb 13, 2009

salsadancer7 said:
FIRST, has there EVER been a comprehensive test proving once and for all, that PEDs actually make players better? Reason I ask that is because Marvin Miller brought that up in a conversation with local sports show host Dan LeBatard. Made me think, the ONLY thing that they have done has been compare the numbers...that is it. NOTHING scientific...NOTHING with doctors. Didn't you once say to me, 'you can manipulate numbers to say anything'? Well, the same can be said, under your logic about comparing numbers when it was used and not used.

I know I've asked this in at least one of the many PED threads here, and I've never seen a response from yourself or anyone who believes that PEDs don't make players better (the PE stands for Performance Enhancing, BTW), so I'll ask it again:

Why would players use these PEDs, knowing the risks and future health side-effects, if they didn't make them better in some way??

SamCdbs

Feb 14, 2009

- The idea that steroids don't work is crazy. Of course steroids work. It enabled a marginal ballplayer like Bonds to hit hundreds of home runs he never would have hit honestly.

- Unions always protect the bottom feeders. If you work in a factory and some guy is a screw up or a goof off, YOU have to work harder to make up for him. So you would think the unions would be the first to get rid of those guys. But no. They protect the bottom feeders. Its what unions do. In this case, honest players are put in the situation where they must RISK THEIR LIVES taking drugs that cause all sorts of problems now and in later life. Not to mention violate the law. Now, should not the majority of players DEMAND a STRICTER testing program than the owners (who can cash in on the home run fest and not really care that nobody is alive to play in the old timers' game in 2020) would want. But, no. Unions protect the bottom feeders. Its what unions do.

- But what we are all forgeting in the "court of public opinon". Selig can certainly act unilaterally. The union can either accept it, go on strike about it, or sue, in which case Selig can lock them out. Multi-millionaire on strike for the right to take illegal drugs and cheat? They would be lucky if they are not physically attacked.

AntAltMike

Feb 14, 2009

SamCdbs said:
-... a marginal ballplayer like Bonds ....

By the end of the 1998 season, before Bond's training regimen had "gone to his head", he had 400+ homers, 400+ stolen bases, three MVP awards and eight Gold Gloves. In other words, if he had been run over by a train during that off-season, then five years later, he would have been a first ballot Hall-of-Famer.

It is within the realm of possibility that Bonds had taken human growth hormones, or amphetimines, or unicorn horn powder or something before 1998. I think that he did whatever he did after the 1998 season because he knew he was the best ballplayer in baseball, but America had become enamored with two lesser hitters who were taking steroids.

salsadancer7

Feb 15, 2009

cosmo_kramer said:
I know I've asked this in at least one of the many PED threads here, and I've never seen a response from yourself or anyone who believes that PEDs don't make players better (the PE stands for Performance Enhancing, BTW), so I'll ask it again:

Why would players use these PEDs, knowing the risks and future health side-effects, if they didn't make them better in some way??

GOD oh mighty, I have only answered this 100 times....ok, again, these players did NOT take them to break records....they took them to lengthen their careers by 3-6 season, give or take. Remember, again, 'roids do NOT build muscle...they help recoup faster so you can workout MORE. So, to them, they are healthier because they are working out more. You gotta stop thinking WWE and the NFL...they do not take the same PEDs or the same doses. They are NOT doing to be huge...but to be stronger.....two completely different animals. STRONGER....not better. IF it made them BETTER, .250 hitters would be hitting .330 and pitchers would be throwing 10-15 mph faster...guys would be faster and stealing more bases.

brainiac

Feb 15, 2009

salsadancer7 said:
GOD oh mighty, I have only answered this 100 times....ok, again, these players did NOT take them to break records....they took them to lengthen their careers by 3-6 season, give or take. Remember, again, 'roids do NOT build muscle...they help recoup faster so you can workout MORE. So, to them, they are healthier because they are working out more. You gotta stop thinking WWE and the NFL...they do not take the same PEDs or the same doses. They are NOT doing to be huge...but to be stronger.....two completely different animals. STRONGER....not better. IF it made them BETTER, .250 hitters would be hitting .330 and pitchers would be throwing 10-15 mph faster...guys would be faster and stealing more bases.

First of all, of course steroids by themselves don't build muscle; but they sure as hell allow you to do the things that do build muscle such as working out longer and harder, and recovering faster like you mentioned above. Not everyone is going to do the same things to get same results as far as body size and strength, that's a given. And a .250 hitter is a .250 hitter for a reason -- he's not going to become a superstar just because he's bigger and stronger. But let's get real here. McGwire, Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, and A-Rod all got noticeably bigger. Guys with superior talent can, and have used steroids (using the term as a catchall, so don't nitpick about who took what) to take their accomplishments and abilities to the next level. Even those .250 hitters can get a few more hits or homers that they might not have gotten because now they're able to generate more bat speed due to being stronger. And yes, it IS possible for pitchers to increase their velocity as a result of using steroids to help them get bigger and/or stronger. Just ask Dan Naulty. And as far as not making helping to make you faster, let's ask Ben Johnson about that. Everyone has his own reasons for using steroids. McGwire was injury-prone and struggling, Clemens seemed to be approaching the end of the road, and Bonds was supposedly jealous of McGwire and Sosa. But I really doubt that A-Rod was really worried about extending his career back when he was just 25. Sandra, sorry for helping to continue to highjack your thread...

salsadancer7

Feb 15, 2009

brainiac said:
First of all, of course steroids by themselves don't build muscle; but they sure as hell allow you to do the things that do build muscle such as working out longer and harder, and recovering faster like you mentioned above. Not everyone is going to do the same things to get same results as far as body size and strength, that's a given. And a .250 hitter is a .250 hitter for a reason -- he's not going to become a superstar just because he's bigger and stronger. But let's get real here. McGwire, Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, and A-Rod all got noticeably bigger. Guys with superior talent can, and have used steroids (using the term as a catchall, so don't nitpick about who took what) to take their accomplishments and abilities to the next level. Even those .250 hitters can get a few more hits or homers that they might not have gotten because now they're able to generate more bat speed due to being stronger. And yes, it IS possible for pitchers to increase their velocity as a result of using steroids to help them get bigger and/or stronger. Just ask Dan Naulty. And as far as not making helping to make you faster, let's ask Ben Johnson about that. Everyone has his own reasons for using steroids. McGwire was injury-prone and struggling, Clemens seemed to be approaching the end of the road, and Bonds was supposedly jealous of McGwire and Sosa. But I really doubt that A-Rod was really worried about extending his career back when he was just 25. Sandra, sorry for helping to continue to highjack your thread...

Dan Naulty....? Your sample size is ONE pitcher??!! One pitcher in ALL of the steroid era??!! A guy who NEVER won more than 3 games and his ERA all but ONCE hovered OVER the 4.9 ERA??!! THAT Dan Naulty?!

Oh and by the way, Ben Johnson GOT FASTER because he got STRONGER....the steroids help PREVENT injury while training.....He didn't get instantly faster....he had to get stronger, and that came with working out and training.

Getting back to subject.....I stated how the steroids should be handled....EVERYONE already knows my feelings in the steroid era and how it effected players. UNTIL there is a SCIENTIFIC STUDY proving that steroids makes you a better players....sorry, not buying it. Because for EVERY Sammy Sosa, Mark McGuire and Barry Bonds, I will give you Pudge Rodriguez, Paul Le Duca and even your very own example....Dan Naulty.....by the way, how were HIS stats with his 7 mph in his fastball?

brainiac

Feb 16, 2009

salsadancer7 said:
Dan Naulty....? Your sample size is ONE pitcher??!! One pitcher in ALL of the steroid era??!! A guy who NEVER won more than 3 games and his ERA all but ONCE hovered OVER the 4.9 ERA??!! THAT Dan Naulty?!

Oh and by the way, Ben Johnson GOT FASTER because he got STRONGER....the steroids help PREVENT injury while training.....He didn't get instantly faster....he had to get stronger, and that came with working out and training.

Getting back to subject.....I stated how the steroids should be handled....EVERYONE already knows my feelings in the steroid era and how it effected players. UNTIL there is a SCIENTIFIC STUDY proving that steroids makes you a better players....sorry, not buying it. Because for EVERY Sammy Sosa, Mark McGuire and Barry Bonds, I will give you Pudge Rodriguez, Paul Le Duca and even your very own example....Dan Naulty.....by the way, how were HIS stats with his 7 mph in his fastball?

OK, you just ignore what someone is saying, just to shout your opinion. I'm citing examples, not every case, which neither YOU nor I can do. Even so, Naulty might probably would have never made it to the majors without that extra velocity. And Pudge? At one point, he was one of the best hitting catchers in baseball! Do you know when he started and stopped using? Nowhere in my post did I say that anyone got instantly better. YOU'RE taking it there. Did you even read the post? I didn't say that steroids made you better. I said that steroids HELP you do the things that will enhance the abilities you have. I also said that mediocre players weren't going to become superstars. Before using the steroids, did everyone have the same ability? No, they didn't. Did everyone follow the same workout regimen? No, they didn't. Was everyone blessed with the same genetics? No, they weren't. So, how would YOU expect the same results for everyone using them? That's just naive! That's also the rub with a "scientific" study. You don't and won't have a controlled sample of baseball players being given steroids for research. By the way, though, there have been plenty of studies done on the effects of using steroids. This is from one of them:

"The gains made by athletes in uncontrolled observations have been much more impressive. Weight gains of thirty or forty pounds, coupled with thirty percent increases in strength, are not unusual. Such case studies lack credibility because of the absence of scientific controls. However, it would be foolish to completely disregard such observations because the "subjects" have been highly trained and motivated athletes. Please see the articles on pharmacology of sport and sports medicine in the countries of the former Soviet Union for more information on anabolic steroids."

ANABOLIC-ANDROGENIC STEROIDS: Mechanism of Action and Effects on Performance

Those are their words, not mine.

salsadancer7

Feb 16, 2009

brainiac said:
OK, you just ignore what someone is saying, just to shout your opinion. I'm citing examples, not every case, which neither YOU nor I can do. Even so, Naulty might probably would have never made it to the majors without that extra velocity. And Pudge? At one point, he was one of the best hitting catchers in baseball! Do you know when he started and stopped using? Nowhere in my post did I say that anyone got instantly better. YOU'RE taking it there. Did you even read the post? I didn't say that steroids made you better. I said that steroids HELP you do the things that will enhance the abilities you have. I also said that mediocre players weren't going to become superstars. Before using the steroids, did everyone have the same ability? No, they didn't. Did everyone follow the same workout regimen? No, they didn't. Was everyone blessed with the same genetics? No, they weren't. So, how would YOU expect the same results for everyone using them? That's just naive! That's also the rub with a "scientific" study. You don't and won't have a controlled sample of baseball players being given steroids for research. By the way, though, there have been plenty of studies done on the effects of using steroids. This is from one of them:

"The gains made by athletes in uncontrolled observations have been much more impressive. Weight gains of thirty or forty pounds, coupled with thirty percent increases in strength, are not unusual. Such case studies lack credibility because of the absence of scientific controls. However, it would be foolish to completely disregard such observations because the "subjects" have been highly trained and motivated athletes. Please see the articles on pharmacology of sport and sports medicine in the countries of the former Soviet Union for more information on anabolic steroids."

ANABOLIC-ANDROGENIC STEROIDS: Mechanism of Action and Effects on Performance

Those are their words, not mine.

Anabolic Steroids and Performance

The effects of anabolic steroids on physical performance are unclear. Well controlled, double blind studies have rendered conflicting results. In studies showing beneficial effects, body weight increased by an average of about four pounds, lean body weight by about six pounds (fat loss accounts for the discrepancy between gains in lean mass and body weight), bench press increased by about 15 pounds, and squats by about 30 pounds (these values represent the average gains for all studies showing a beneficial effect). Almost all studies have failed to demonstrate a beneficial effect on maximal oxygen consumption or endurance capacity. Anabolic steroid studies have typically lasted six to eight weeks and have usually used relatively untrained subjects.

This is the two paragraph just above the one YOU posted from YOUR LINK, was this part read or "forgotten"....?

What was it that you said, oh yeah....."those are their words, not mine"

EDIT: And by the way, Pudge has ALWAYS BEEN one of the best hitting catchers in MLB...he has a LIFETIME .301 batting average.

brainiac

Feb 16, 2009

salsadancer7 said:
This is the two paragraph just above the one YOU posted from YOUR LINK, was this part read or "forgotten"....? What was it that you said, oh yeah....."those are their words, not mine"

EDIT: And by the way, Pudge has ALWAYS BEEN one of the best hitting catchers in MLB...he has a LIFETIME .301 batting average.

Again, you fail to understand. I supported your argument that no SCIENTIFIC study had been done, and the article told why. But it also said that you would be foolish to ignore the obvious, which you seem wont to do. By the way, you were the one who brought Pudge into the argument, not me. People have noticed his changing physique over the years, though.

salsadancer7

Feb 16, 2009

brainiac said:
Again, you fail to understand. I supported your argument that no SCIENTIFIC study had been done, and the article told why. But it also said that you would be foolish to ignore the obvious, which you seem wont to do. By the way, you were the one who brought Pudge into the argument, not me. People have noticed his changing physique over the years, though.

We must be in different zip codes. I do not deny that can and probably does help an ALREADY home run hitter.....but there are too many guys that were guilty of taking the PEDs and did NOTHING for them as far as performance or numbers. A guy that was averaging 30-40 dingers BEFORE the PEDs might hit 50 HRs. But again, it would have to be a guy that already hits HRs where you would really see the difference.....if any. A slap hitter in the majors does not suddenly change his swing just because he suddenly has a little more pop than warning track powers.

vurbano

Feb 16, 2009

AntAltMike said:
I think that he did whatever he did after the 1998 season because he knew he was the best ballplayer in baseball, but America had become enamored with two lesser hitters who were taking steroids.

I think you have a very naive view. Steriod use was rampant long before 1998 and bonds was using.

vampz26

Feb 17, 2009

vurbano said:
I think you have a very naive view. Steriod use was rampant long before 1998 and bonds was using.

Thats true. The sad part is that we've gotten so enamoured with the juiced up heroes, that real athletes aren't getting any of the credit they deserve...

HD MM

Feb 17, 2009

vurbano said:
I think you have a very naive view. Steriod use was rampant long before 1998 and bonds was using.

Yeah. Didn't Conseco say he first started experimenting with Roids during the late '80's?

salsadancer7

Feb 17, 2009

HD MM said:
Yeah. Didn't Conseco say he first started experimenting with Roids during the late '80's?

Yeah....Canseco use to hang out with a ALOT of shaddy characters here in Miami. I am surprised his agent or the A's NEVER said anything about him. He was NOTORIOUS for hangin' out at this Gold's Gym that had a good reputation for alot of the scumbag bouncers of many private clubs as well as body guards for the Columbian Cartel that was still very preminant in Miami Beach at the time.

View all replies (56)

Ramy

Supporting Founder

Last reply 9 minutes ago · posted in The Sports Section

2026-27 NCAA College Football

Really excited for this season with Kentucky having a new coach and some really exciting recruits. Probably won't last long, but here's hoping this season is great.

185 Replies · 3443 views

Load Replies (185) Reply Legacy View

Reactions: Mike0616

reubenray

Oct 18, 2026

A lot of upsets yesterday, but my LSU Tigers won.

Reactions: Howard Simmons, Mike0616 and Jimbo

osu1991

Monday at 9:15 AM

View: https://youtu.be/b9vzhHLNUcQ?si=iNzfZTeZ3m9UKyKw

Reactions: Foxbat and Jimbo

Yespage

Monday at 10:31 AM

Parity is growing in College Football. Making it even harder to tell who is better than each other.

Reactions: Howard Simmons, Jimbo and Ronnie-

rvvaquero

Monday at 11:48 AM

Yespage said:
Parity is growing in College Football. Making it even harder to tell who is better than each other.

I agree to a point. The transfer policy is creating parity, but only for the top 20-25 teams. The other 110+ teams in the FBS are just breeding grounds for the bigger schools which have more money and more recruiting appeal.

If a smaller school recruits, trains, and matures a quality player, they can't keep them past their sophomore year because the bigger schools snatch them up. Example: LSU didn't cultivate Sam Leavitt, they just harvested him from other schools. LSU is a top contender, in large part because of Leavitt. Michigan State and Arizona State.................are not. If either of those schools had been able to retain his services, who knows where they would be now.

Reactions: Jimbo, Yespage and AZ.

osu1991

Monday at 7:18 PM

View: https://youtu.be/rIo_AKwhuro?is=j487ez2Gx1kGS565

Reactions: Foxbat

telstar_1

9 minutes ago

reubenray said:
A lot of upsets yesterday, but my LSU Tigers won.

Coach says afternoon game result of SEC "conspiracy". The rivalry game vs. Ala. will kick off in the afternoon at Baton Rouge rather than at night, which head coach Lane Kiffin says is intentional in order to neutralize fan craziness and noise, which is believed to help lead to wins for squads playing at home. "Obviously the SEC wanted to change this year from how it had been to give LSU less advantage, (considering) how well LSU plays at night and how intimidating it is to play here. So I guess when I look at it that way, I'm not surprised."

But he's come up with an ingenious solution. "Go to bed earlier Fri. night, then start your day earlier. Have breakfast earlier. Start drinking earlier. Whatever your routine is, just move it up."

Meantime ads have been running for a "Protect College Sports Act" moving through Congress.

View all replies (185)

Scott Greczkowski

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge

Last reply 20 minutes ago · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Song Name Game Part 3!

Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne

Get it?

An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....

68771 Replies · 2687329 views

Load Replies (68771) Reply Legacy View

Reactions: c-spand

hwkn

Today at 2:43 AM

Don't WANNA KNOW-Maroon 5

harshness

Today at 9:51 AM

I Want to Know What Love Is - Foreigner

Reactions: long_time_Dish, gms49ers, RaiderPower and 1 other person

Bobby

Today at 11:11 AM

Oh What A Night For Dancing - Barry White

sdfntx

Today at 12:48 PM

It's a Good Night for Singing - Jerry Jeff Walker

long_time_Dish

20 minutes ago

All Night Long - Joe Walsh

View all replies (68771)

ewindowman

Lifetime Supporter

Last reply 23 minutes ago · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

Dish Bankruptcy - Business as Usual

Looks like dish is Bankrupt. Filling tomorrow Tuesday June 30th

457 Replies · 15940 views

Load Replies (457) Reply Legacy View

Reactions: Foxbat, FTA4PA and LQQK

nelson61

Monday at 12:22 PM

Washington Post

SpaceX has held talks with Boost's parent company EchoStar in recent months about launching its own signature wireless service through a deal with the company, according to two people familiar with the negotiations.
Musk, the SpaceX CEO, has discussed the deal personally, meeting with EchoStar chairman Charlie Ergen last month, according to the people. The potential deal may result in SpaceX acquiring Boost Mobile or SpaceX gaining access to its network, which it leases from AT&T and T-Mobile US, the people said.
Access to those lease agreements would be a coup for SpaceX. The back door would allow Musk to make a play for a U.S. wireless market that equity research firm MoffettNathanson estimates is worth $235 billion. But the proposed service may need consent from those carriers for the service to actually launch, the people said.

Reactions: DialgaChampion, MikeD-C05, Foxbat and 2 others

Scott Greczkowski

Monday at 1:25 PM

nelson61 said:
Washington Post

SpaceX has held talks with Boost's parent company EchoStar in recent months about launching its own signature wireless service through a deal with the company, according to two people familiar with the negotiations.
Musk, the SpaceX CEO, has discussed the deal personally, meeting with EchoStar chairman Charlie Ergen last month, according to the people. The potential deal may result in SpaceX acquiring Boost Mobile or SpaceX gaining access to its network, which it leases from AT&T and T-Mobile US, the people said.
Access to those lease agreements would be a coup for SpaceX. The back door would allow Musk to make a play for a U.S. wireless market that equity research firm MoffettNathanson estimates is worth $235 billion. But the proposed service may need consent from those carriers for the service to actually launch, the people said.

Can't remember where or who I saw predict this.

It wouldn't surprise me to see Elon soon own all of DISH / Echostar in the future.

Reactions: DialgaChampion, MikeD-C05, Foxbat and 1 other person

Bruce

Tuesday at 10:17 AM

Scott Greczkowski said:
It wouldn't surprise me to see Elon soon own all of DISH / Echostar in the future.

Again, why would Musk want a TV Service, specially one that is losing over a million subscribers a year.

Phone service…maybe, but not TV.

Reactions: MikeD-C05 and charlesrshell

Scott Greczkowski

Tuesday at 10:22 AM

Bruce said:
Again, why would Musk want a TV Service, specially one that is losing over a million subscribers a year.

Phone service…maybe, but not TV.

I know he wants TV. He wants to deliver EVERYTHING to EVERYWHERE.

Reactions: DialgaChampion, MikeD-C05, Almighty1 and 2 others

Bruce

Tuesday at 11:30 AM

Scott Greczkowski said:
I know he wants TV. He wants to deliver EVERYTHING to EVERYWHERE.

Again, if so, why would he want Dish/Sling of all the providers?

He could deliver anything without actually owning, for example, watching the Lions game in my Tesla Y on it's screen via the YT app, while on the way to my future in-laws on Sunday.

Reactions: MikeD-C05 and charlesrshell

slow_poke_pete

Yesterday at 2:54 AM

Bruce said:
Again, if so, why would he want Dish/Sling of all the providers?

He could deliver anything without actually owning, for example, watching the Lions game in my Tesla Y on it's screen via the YT app, while on the way to my future in-laws on Sunday.

dish has new sats dtv does not

Reactions: MikeD-C05 and charlesrshell

renjy651

Yesterday at 6:37 AM

slow_poke_pete said:
dish has new sats dtv does not

Hate to say this no one is ordering Satellite TV. Both DISH and Direct no new customers.
After 25 years with centurylink DSL 80 speed i changed to Xfinity 300 speed for $50 wow lightning fast for streaming. Still have DISH 27 years with them. Americas 250 package for $103. What you think of superbox or vseebox for streaming is it legal?
Still dish is easy to operate and change channels. What will Charlie Ergen do with new super satellites with loosing customers with satellites and boost?

Reactions: MikeD-C05, slow_poke_pete and charlesrshell

comfortably_numb

Yesterday at 8:31 AM

renjy651 said:
What you think of superbox or vseebox for streaming is it legal?

NO.

Reactions: slow_poke_pete and charlesrshell

slow_poke_pete

Yesterday at 11:52 AM

renjy651 said:
Hate to say this no one is ordering Satellite TV. Both DISH and Direct no new customers.
After 25 years with centurylink DSL 80 speed i changed to Xfinity 300 speed for $50 wow lightning fast for streaming. Still have DISH 27 years with them. Americas 250 package for $103. What you think of superbox or vseebox for streaming is it legal?
Still dish is easy to operate and change channels. What will Charlie Ergen do with new super satellites with loosing customers with satellites and boost?

While I agree but dish just launched a new sat. That can be used as an asset for Elon. Maybe he will repurpose em for his cell service. And if he wants tv to. God knows why he would but I think he will get a great deal on the contracts in place and equipment!!! I could think of better things to spend my money on. And to be honest Elon has nothing to offer me have blazing fast internet and ill never buy an ev. The veesee box and the super box are illegal.

Reactions: MikeD-C05 and charlesrshell

tanman

Today at 2:25 PM

For your viewing pleasure...

AT&T, T-Mobile Are Reportedly Ready To Boot Boost Mobile If SpaceX Buys It

Semafor’s Rohan Goswami said that AT&T and T-Mobile have discussed removing Boost Mobile from their networks if SpaceX acquires the EchoStar unit, creating a potential obstacle to Elon Musk’s push to become a major U.S. wireless carrier.

finance.yahoo.com

Reactions: MikeD-C05, comfortably_numb and charlesrshell

comfortably_numb

23 minutes ago

tanman said:
For your viewing pleasure...

AT&T, T-Mobile Are Reportedly Ready To Boot Boost Mobile If SpaceX Buys It

Semafor’s Rohan Goswami said that AT&T and T-Mobile have discussed removing Boost Mobile from their networks if SpaceX acquires the EchoStar unit, creating a potential obstacle to Elon Musk’s push to become a major U.S. wireless carrier.

finance.yahoo.com

That's ok, I'm sure Verizon will be happy to take them.

View all replies (457)

Bruce

Supporting Founder Lifetime Supporter

Last reply 25 minutes ago · posted in Internet Television (IPTV) Discussion Forum

Traditional/Streaming Live TV Providers Losses, 3rd Quarter 2026 Edition

Comcast is the first to report, with a massive 274,000 loss in video subscribers.

In the 3Q of 2016, Comcast had 21.42 million video subscribers and was the #1 provider, now at 10.39 million and is the #3 Provider, YTTV is #2 ( who also surpassed DirecTV-8 Million and Dish-under 5 Million), Charter/Spectrum is #1.

Comcast Just Lost 274,000 TV Customers & 144,000 Internet Customers In Just Three Months | Cord Cutters News

Comcast Corporation reported its third-quarter 2026 results on October 22, showing continued erosion in its domestic residential broadband internet and video customer bases as competitive pressures intensified across the connectivity market. The company recorded a net loss of 144,000 domestic...

cordcuttersnews.com

23 Replies · 907 views

Load Replies (23) Reply Legacy View

Reactions: Howard Simmons

Tom Speer

Yesterday at 1:26 PM

Optimum, which bought up our previous cable company, Suddenlink (originally COX), replac ed all of their coax disdribution with Fiber several years ago. They ran new fiber links to the house, but installed RFOG (RF over glass) devices on the outside of the house, which makes the house coax system look like a cable system. They used DOCSIS modems and of course we had the same assymetric bandwidth of cable internet. When I called them a couple years ago, and said I had installed a connection to the local Fiber provideer, MetroNet, They panicked and offered me the 300 MBit "Fiber powered" cable service for $20 per month. They were bleeding customers. I cancelled my Metronet and went with the $20 deal for a year, even though I didn't like the old cable technology.

Then T-moble Fiber struck a deal with Metronet Fiber where T-mobile would take over the marketing, billing and customer relations for residential Customers. They offered a "Founders Deal" for 2 Gigabit service, symmetric speeds, for $70 per month for new customers. That included all taxes and fees and was guaranteed for 10 years. I couldn't resist. That deal is no longer offered, but I am set for 9 more years.

Now the successor to the old local telephone company, Brightspeed has also installed a modern Fiber system in the neighborhood, but won't be getting my business. But their Fiber technology is also superior to Optimums cable based system.

With Fiber competition, the cable companies are eventually doomed.

Reactions: MikeD-C05

Foxbat

Yesterday at 4:26 PM

Meanwhile, my neighbor 300' away has gigabit fiber, and I'm stuck with copper solutions.

Reactions: MikeD-C05 and Bobby

savarese04

Today at 1:58 PM

Foxbat said:
Meanwhile, my neighbor 300' away has gigabit fiber, and I'm stuck with copper solutions.

similar situation. almost every neighborhood around me has fiber, but our 3 block area. I called AT&T and was like, how hard is it to bring fiber over about 200 feet (I am closest to the folks with fiber and can see it on the poles from my front door); crickets and very frustrating.

ncted

Today at 2:31 PM

savarese04 said:
similar situation. almost every neighborhood around me has fiber, but our 3 block area. I called AT&T and was like, how hard is it to bring fiber over about 200 feet (I am closest to the folks with fiber and can see it on the poles from my front door); crickets and very frustrating.

"Business Intelligence" is more of an oxymoron than Military Intelligence.

TRG

25 minutes ago

Foxbat said:
Meanwhile, my neighbor 300' away has gigabit fiber, and I'm stuck with copper solutions.

I have gigabit fiber in an underground box on my property. But it's not lit up yet so I'm stuck with copper too. For now anyway.

View all replies (23)

garyreno

Last reply 51 minutes ago · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

Updated to H715 on a Hopper 3 from H713

After a strange reboot last night in the middle of viewing, this morning several more reboots and about a half an hour download.

1 Replies · 56 views

Load Replies (1) Reply Legacy View

Reactions: Almighty1, reubenray and LQQK

Almighty1

51 minutes ago

Just did the update check manually about an hour ago with Hopper 3 on H713 and Hopper Plus on P15403.
Noticed something new when I clicked on the Update Software, it presented a pop-up as follows:
"Update software 1573
Update later Update now Cancel" with those three buttons which did not exist before.

After updating the H715 - I guess there must be major bugs as both H709 and H714 were skipped.

So here are the issue(s):

Issue #1
It did fix the problem with H713 which was:
"One of the problems I am seeing is that the Available Joey Software section no longer is showing the Android TV versions even after a manual software reset twice and the nightly reboot. Until it does, nether Technician Android TV download and Hopper Plus is able to check, download and update the Android TV software."

This was a major problem with H703.

H710 removed that dependency so H711 and H712 were working without that dependency but H713 brought it back which is fixed in H715.
However, with that said, the TECHNICIAN SETTINGS, Download ATV (Android TV) Files is not working correctly as the Download ATV Files shows:
"Download ATV Files 3000
Download in progress. This operation will be
complete when the files are downloaded

Joey 4 : P554- Failed
Joey 4 : P55403- Failed
Wireless Joey 4 : P654- Failed
Wireless Joey 4 : P65403- Complete
HopperPlus : P154- Complete
HopperPlus : P15403- Failed

OK"
From what I can tell, each of them goes through the Downloading followed by the Processing stages first before it goes into the Failed or Complete stage. It seemed to be going in a loop earlier as it will start downloading from the first item being the Joey 4 each time before it eventually stopped. This is the first time ever since 2023 that I had ever seen it Failed.

Issue #2
Still cannot cast to Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus(Software P15317) with the Hopper Plus "Google Chromecast Built-In" feature" as it shows up as a casting device when the Hopper Plus is online and disappears when the Hopper 3 and Hopper Plus does it's nightly reboots but times out when one tries to cast to it and always shows up as Not available in the Google Home app on Android phone. No one else anywhere on the internet had confirmed whether it is working for them or not. Per brittanygarden in DM on October 16, 2026:
"We've been working with Google on this. We have a fix on the Google side projected for Q4. I know we're in Q4 now, but I will try to get a narrowed down timeline for you."

brittanygarden and Rick Durham

jsmit86 and naptime - If you are able to use H715, does the issue mentioned below still exist?

https://www.satelliteguys.us/xen/th...ftware-version-713-is-out.423921/post-5108817

Reactions: charlesrshell

Booredatwork.com

Today at 2:32 PM · posted in BooredAtWork.COM

Sony MDR-3R Walkman USB-C Headphones

Time for another AWESOME video from BoredAtWork!

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/DJ9tHdzvSUQ

Direct YouTube Link - Sony MDR-3R Walkman USB-C Headphones
Booredatwork.com Website
Booredatwork on Facebook

0 Replies · 7 views

Replies Reply Legacy View

TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Today at 2:32 PM · posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Earth’s New Mini Moon: Meet Asteroid 2026 QQ8

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/6kVDC3xcUVE

Direct YouTube Link - Earth's New Mini Moon: Meet Asteroid 2026 QQ8
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed

0 Replies · 5 views

Replies Reply Legacy View

dishstaller

Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter

Last reply Today at 2:02 PM · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Color blind man sees full colors for first time at age 66

Videos like this can make you appreciate the things we take for granted.

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/a2cgQidHQJI

6 Replies · 147 views

Load Replies (6) Reply Legacy View

Reactions: NYDutch, Bobby and navychop

Bobby

Wednesday at 10:10 PM

dishstaller said:
Videos like this can make you appreciate the things we take for granted.

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/a2cgQidHQJI

That brought tears to my eyes.

Reactions: NYDutch

dishstaller

Wednesday at 10:12 PM

Bobby said:
That brought tears to my eyes.

Really...REALLY hate to do this to you Bobby, but....

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsOo3jzkhYA&pp=ygUed29tYW4gaGVhcnMgZm9yIHRoZSBmaXJzdCB0aW1l

Reactions: NYDutch and Bobby

dishstaller

Wednesday at 10:15 PM

Okay....if you think you can take it....this one brought tears to my eyes when I first saw it and did again just now.

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/i5UCDwHMatg?feature=share

Reactions: NYDutch and Bobby

dishstaller

Thursday at 11:32 PM

This came up in my suggestions probably because of the video I posted. I had NO idea exactly what being color blind actually was. Now I understand why that man was so blown away with seeing the trees......a lot of color blind people see green as brown, so grass, trees, etc all look brown.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i18_RngKJDQ

Juan

Today at 1:56 PM

Its a shame nobody told him orange was blue and red was purple etc etc etc

telstar_1

Today at 2:02 PM

Often people who have organic vision or hearing activated as adults after never having had it cannot practically utilize it because their brains never developed the massive neural network needed to make sense of any of it.

Well, he sees in color, just differently. Can't he just enjoy that? My granny had anachromatic color blindness, meaning pretty much like a b&w tv

b4pjoe

Pub Member / Supporter Cutting Edge

Last reply Today at 1:50 PM · posted in Computers and Gadgets

Fox Is Buying Roku in $22 Billion Deal

15 Replies · 336 views

Load Replies (15) Reply Legacy View

Reactions: HipKat and primestar31

harshness

Jun 25, 2026

Given that Tubi is one of the hottest FAST services out there, I don't expect it to go anywhere. Building up intolerance for ads takes a while, and as long as the advertisers are willing to foot the bill, why not?

Reactions: Mr Tony and primestar31

Neutron

Yesterday at 3:04 PM

Another reason I'm glad we are swapping or Rokus out for Apple TVs. I was already planning on ditching the Rokus earlier this year and had been waiting on Apple to announce the new one last month. Our Rokus have had issues the last year or so with freezing video and reboots, and one with an HDCP issue randomly.

Reactions: AZ. and navychop

dishstaller

Yesterday at 3:06 PM

harshness said:
Building up intolerance for ads takes a while, and as long as the advertisers are willing to foot the bill, why not?

That is what I have to explain to customers all the time. They want it free with no ads :facepalm

Reactions: navychop

TRG

Yesterday at 9:50 PM

Neutron said:
Another reason I'm glad we are swapping or Rokus out for Apple TVs. I was already planning on ditching the Rokus earlier this year and had been waiting on Apple to announce the new one last month. Our Rokus have had issues the last year or so with freezing video and reboots, and one with an HDCP issue randomly.

Hmmm... I don't have any of those problems with my Roku devices. I have 3 of them.

Reactions: Mr Tony and reubenray

navychop

Yesterday at 10:36 PM

I suspect Fox will make me consider 2-3 more Apple TV STB purchases.

Jimbo

Today at 9:55 AM

TRG said:
Hmmm... I don't have any of those problems with my Roku devices. I have 3 of them.

I have the Roku's, 2 or 3, I just rarely use them ... I prefer the Google/Android Sony set up.

People tell me that the Apps on the TV will end thier usefulness as they age ... They are doing ok for me so far ... I also have the TV take the App Updates whenever possible ... then again, I don't know how often App updates come to it.

So, so far, I'm doing ok, but if they start to get sluggish, I'll eventually change to a Roku ... I don't want to, but eventually ... (Or buy another new TV :eeek

reubenray

Today at 12:50 PM

navychop said:
I suspect Fox will make me consider 2-3 more Apple TV STB purchases.

As long as my Roku Ultra works I will use it. I use it for all of my streaming apps except for Prime. I read that Prime works best with Android TV's.

navychop

Today at 1:03 PM

Hmmm. Not watching much Prime, but it would be on our Apple TV STB.

You know of any drawbacks using Ultra and Prime?

osu1991

Today at 1:11 PM

navychop said:
Hmmm. Not watching much Prime, but it would be on our Apple TV STB.

You know of any drawbacks using Ultra and Prime?

Prime seems to have a problem passing the DV/HDR metadata to Roku and Apple devices, but no problem with their Fire devices.

Reactions: navychop

Juan

Today at 1:50 PM

dishstaller said:
That is what I have to explain to customers all the time. They want it free with no ads

The ads are boring and repetitive...same ad over and over...bring back 1970s ads..might not be as big an issue

View all replies (15)

TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Today at 1:32 PM · posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Google’s Space Data Center: What Can It Actually Power? #shorts

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/rXqreoAsve8

Direct YouTube Link - Google's Space Data Center: What Can It Actually Power? #shorts
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed

Search

Search

Social Feed

Here is a real approach to attacking steroid use in baseball

2026-27 NCAA College Football

Song Name Game Part 3!

Dish Bankruptcy - Business as Usual

AT&T, T-Mobile Are Reportedly Ready To Boot Boost Mobile If SpaceX Buys It

AT&T, T-Mobile Are Reportedly Ready To Boot Boost Mobile If SpaceX Buys It

Traditional/Streaming Live TV Providers Losses, 3rd Quarter 2026 Edition

Comcast Just Lost 274,000 TV Customers & 144,000 Internet Customers In Just Three Months | Cord Cutters News

Updated to H715 on a Hopper 3 from H713

Sony MDR-3R Walkman USB-C Headphones

Earth’s New Mini Moon: Meet Asteroid 2026 QQ8

Color blind man sees full colors for first time at age 66

Fox Is Buying Roku in $22 Billion Deal

Google’s Space Data Center: What Can It Actually Power? #shorts