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rtt2

Supporting Founder

Last reply Oct 22, 2004 · posted in Old VOOM News and Developments Archive

VOOM Cries Foul Over INHD and INHD2

VOOM Cries Foul Over INHD and INHD2

Byline: MICHAEL BASCOMBE

Rainbow's DBS provider VOOM wants its INHD, and it doesn't think In Demand is playing fair. So, it's taken its case to the FCC, filing a program access complaint Fri against In Demand, whose shareholders include Comcast, Cox and Time Warner Cable. The complaint, first reported by Satellite Business News, claims In Demand has refused to negotiate a "commercially reasonable agreement" with VOOM for the carriage of INHD and INHD2. "We are confident that our pricing policies are consistent with the FCC and all other rules," In Demand said in a statement Mon. "The allegations contained in Rainbow's complaint are completely without merit. We will defend the complaint vigorously at the FCC and have every confidence that the FCC will find our policies consistent with all FCC rules and regulations." VOOM claims that in Sept '03 In Demand offered a fee based upon a minimum number of subs that would have worked out to $3.84/sub based upon the DBS provider's current subscription numbers. At a Sept '04 meeting, In Demand informed VOOM that it had ignored the company's counterproposal because it did not contain minimum subscriber guarantees, the complaint said. "ID made plain that its offer was on a 'take it or leave it' basis," VOOM told the FCC. VOOM doesn't believe In Demand has made minimum sub guarantees of any other operator. Worth noting that during these initial negotiations, VOOM projected its sub count would be at 300K by year-end. As of 2Q '04, it had netted 25K. Dark Side: We couldn't help but remember back to a Media Institute lunch a few years back that Rainbow DBS head Chuck Dolan spoke at, where he declared program access rules were bad for cable. "At Cablevision we spend tens, if not hundreds, of millions developing original programming for our customers. Yet, under current regulations we are forced to share much of that programming directly with our competitors."

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DarrellP

Oct 22, 2004

I would probably keep them as an HD only service as well. I watch ZERO SD except for Survivor and I record that locally via Analog as I get a better picture than SD digital. I have the Dish HD Pack and watch it much more than Voom. If I watch DiscoveryHD, TNTHD or ESPNHD, I watch it via Dish since they have a better picture. I'd give them $20/month for the Exclusives and Marquee Pack.

Walter L.

Oct 22, 2004

The more I think about it, the more I convince myself that the VOOM claim makes some sense. Basically, what VOOM is claiming is that the requirement for minimum subs doesn't exist in any other contract with the current inHD carriers. For sure they must know that it doesn't exist in the Cablevision contract

jnardone

Oct 22, 2004

Even if there is no minimum sub requirement for other customers then it still doesn't mean INHD can't require one for VOOM. If all the other customers have at least the number of subs that INHD is asking for from VOOM then there would not be a violation. If there are smaller customers than VOOM that do not have a minimum sub requirement then there may be a violation unless INHD can show that there are special requirements for servicing VOOM that do not exist with other customers. Without the details it is hard to tell.

What we do know is that it is possible for VOOM to provide a channel that was advertised to early subscribers yet they have chosen not to do so. If they will buy back my equipment I will shut up about it.

Walter L.

Oct 22, 2004

jnardone said:
Even if there is no minimum sub requirement for other customers then it still doesn't mean INHD can't require one for VOOM.

I'm not familiar with the FCC rules to tell whether or not that's a violation. You (and everybody else) is welcome to quote specific FCC rules or previous rulings that may apply.

Mr.Poindexter

Oct 22, 2004

jnardone said:
What we do know is that it is possible for VOOM to provide a channel that was advertised to early subscribers yet they have chosen not to do so.

I wouldn't quite make that statement. Sure, they can get that channel at 8.5 times the price its competitors must pay - hardly what I would call a fair deal and certainly not one people can hold them to.

Imagine if ESPN told DirecTV they could have ESPN-HD, but they wanted $40/month per sub. Would you say then that DirecTV just chose not to carry it when they could have because ESPN was more than willing to offer the channel?

In reality, Voom is viewing this as a "high bid" instead of a fair market quote. The same thing happens in lots of other businesses. It is basically saying "I don't want to do business with you, but if you are willing to pay this ridiculous price then I will do business with you." That is not considered a fair playing field.

By the way, for the guy who said $100,000/month minumum for fixed costs: a fixed cost is a one time fee, like the cost to run a fiber line from InHD to Voom's uplink facility. Perhaps you mean a monthly recurring cost, like the cost to maintain such a line and an account maintainence fee. $100,000/month sounds a little high for that. Perhaps they have been watching too many of those bank commercials making fun of the competitors' bank fees.

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Anony55

Last reply Today at 4:19 PM · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

DISH Has Made it Impossible to be a VIP211k Owner

For quite a while now, people with a VIP211k have been losing their recordings on their activated external HDDs... even when there's nothing physically wrong with HDD. I believe this is an intentional and underhanded tactic that Dish is pulling in an attempt to force users away from the VIP211k.

They are obviously regretting that they ever let users have a "non-dvr" dvr in the first place. You would think they would be happy charging you a $40 one time fee... and then be happy letting the customer be the one responsible for HDD failures.

Dish clearly hates the 211k bitter-clingers. This recording deletion problem is intentional (IMO), and I think it is just one more tool that they are using. Hopper and a 2-year agreement... that's what they want you to have. Think about that... a 2-year agreement... with a company $30 Billion in debt (that's with a B). What happens when all that debt causes them to drop the channel that may have been your whole reason for having Dish in the first place? Guess who's stuck with a service that no longer suits their needs... for the remainder of the 2-year agreement.

On top of that, they don't want you to install it yourself. I purchased and installed all my equipment myself. That used to be common. Now, they lie to me and tell me that my dish must be updated to use a Hopper. Funny thing is... they don't even know what dish I have because they didn't install it, and I didn't tell them. If you ask what type of dish/LNBs the hopper needs... good luck getting an answer. All they know is that whatever you have needs to be upgraded by an installer.

It is quite apparent to me that they care much more about staying in their box, than they do working with the customer. That's too bad, because it hasn't always been that way. It's like they are totally unaware of the current business environment that they are trying to compete in.

I have been a customer since 2010. I will be cancelling my service before the next period. Yeah, I know, my $1,200 a year won't make a difference to them. It just seems like they have forgotten who needs who, especially when you consider the competition in today's streaming world. But hey, they will have succeed in forcing me off the 211k.

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Nebugeater

Dec 22, 2025

Got a 211k that works fine, and I no longer need it if someone wants to throw me a few bucks and pay shipping. Not tied to my account as of last week. Used with a tailgater and got a wally

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tparker

Sep 30, 2026

Nebugeater said:
Got a 211k that works fine, and I no longer need it if someone wants to throw me a few bucks and pay shipping. Not tied to my account as of last week. Used with a tailgater and got a wally

Is the 211k still available? If so, I'm interested.

Reactions: charlesrshell

Nebugeater

Oct 2, 2026

tparker said:
Is the 211k still available? If so, I'm interested.

Actually, it is. A couple of people PMed me when I posted this, and when I asked for an address, they never responded. Then I just sort of let it go. Send me a PM to continue the discussion

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Anony55

Yesterday at 6:18 PM

Well, after nine months of being on pause, I finally figured out that I was wasting $5 a month. So I cancelled. For the first time since 2010, I no longer have a Dish account.

I do have to say that I did appreciate the account pause option. That just gives a person some time to see what the fallout of cancelling will be... without having to go all the way over the cliff first.

Since I never once had an "oh shoot, I need Dish Network for..." moment, the decision was a lot easier.

Funny enough, when I called to cancel (for real, not playing the pricing game), all of a sudden, they were offering me deals that I was told before that I couldn't get without changing out my VIP211k. Now, I could have had those specials with them just sending me a new card for the receiver. LOL!

Of course, my mind was already made up because of having not missed the service while on pause. That, and the fact that I bet the 211k still kills recordings.

All in all, I'm glad that I had Dish for all those years. I just outgrew the need, and they pressed the issue by deleting recordings. I would have eventually went this route without the deleted recordings issue. But, for sure, that did hasten the outcome.

I'll still pop in at this site from time to time. Believe it or not, I still have a C/Ku BUD that I intend on playing with again if life ever slows down.

Reactions: slow_poke_pete, zippyfrog, Foxbat and 1 other person

dishstaller

Today at 11:31 AM

Nebugeater said:
Actually, it is. A couple of people PMed me when I posted this, and when I asked for an address, they never responded. Then I just sort of let it go. Send me a PM to continue the discussion

Unless things have changed at Dish, which is entirely possible, they won't activate the 211, even as a replacement. I gave one to a customer a while back....which when I turned it off I made sure to tell the CSR I wanted it freed up so another customer could use it, I was assured it was.....and when they called to swap out there's they were told it couldn't be done. Now like I said, things MIGHT HAVE CHANGED.

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Anony55

Today at 4:19 PM

dishstaller said:
Unless things have changed at Dish, which is entirely possible, they won't activate the 211, even as a replacement. I gave one to a customer a while back....which when I turned it off I made sure to tell the CSR I wanted it freed up so another customer could use it, I was assured it was.....and when they called to swap out there's they were told it couldn't be done. Now like I said, things MIGHT HAVE CHANGED.

It hasn't changed. When I cancelled my service the other day, they told me I didn't need to return the receiver (which I already knew because I purchased it).

But in addition to that, the young man told me not to sell it, but to take it to a recycling place. The reason he gave for the advice was because 211Ks can no longer be activated.

So as far as the VIP211k goes... once grandpa dies, he's dead.

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Therm

Last reply Today at 4:01 PM · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

Am I the only one that hates what Dish did to their mobile app?

I thought I would come here and find lots of complaints about the update to the dish anywhere mobile app, but am not seeing any. It used to look just like the desktop webpage. Now you can no longer filter by sports channels or movie channels. Plus that they made it look like a big button telephone and you see fewer channels in the screen which requires more scrolling. Yes I realize you can look at sports then select which sport you want to look at, I just liked being able to see all sporting events in the guide with all other channels being filtered out. Am I alone in the wilderness on this?

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dishstaller

Today at 12:56 PM

I really dislike change for the sake of change

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dishdude

Today at 2:51 PM

I like the new look, it's a lot cleaner. I'm using it on one of those Onn streaming devices when I travel.

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Therm

Today at 3:39 PM

dishdude said:
I like the new look, it's a lot cleaner. I'm using it on one of those Onn streaming devices when I travel.

Yes a lot cleaner, glossier, and less functional. Someone trying to justify why they are making a big salary. "See look shiny"

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navychop

Today at 3:53 PM

"Big salary." Charlie. "?Big?"

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Tampa8

Today at 4:01 PM

Seems in some ways better. Nicer layout, as others said maybe cleaner. Moving ahead in the guide is better.

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Foxbat

Supporting Founder Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter

Last reply Today at 3:48 PM · posted in Internet Television (IPTV) Discussion Forum

New Apple TV 4K released, plus other Apple Home devices.

Apple has finally released their Apple TV 4K with built-in Siri and a microphone so it can respond to your queries even if you don't have the remote. It also increases in price, to $299. I had been planning on updating my current Apple TV 4K streamers, but that's $600 for the two of them, and that's a pass at this point.

At $299, it had better come with 256 GB of Storage, Gigabit (or better) Ethernet, the latest HDMI tech and standards, and one year of free Apple One. But it probably won't…

Apple TV 4K

Apple TV 4K. New Siri AI and hands-free control. Stunning picture and immersive HomePod surround sound. Works with your Apple and smart home devices.

www.apple.com

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Ronnie-

Tuesday at 9:19 PM

Meh. The 4Ks I have will do everything that these do that I need them to do.

Which that's most tech these days for anything released the last four to five years.

It's honestly a testament to how good the previous gen Apple TVs were and are.

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navychop

Tuesday at 9:31 PM

Ronnie- said:
It's honestly a testament to how good the previous gen Apple TVs were and are.

Don't tell them that. They'll adopt planned obsolescence.

navychop

Yesterday at 12:55 PM

Outside of gaming, would Joe Sixpack notice any difference?

KAB

Yesterday at 7:46 PM

navychop said:
Outside of gaming, would Joe Sixpack notice any difference?

Not a bit. IMO, Apple's are slow to boot up. Time is about the same with 1st gen and 3rd. Roku runs rings around them in that department. I only reason I stuck, is the Apple infrastructure, which has it's definite advantages. But $300 is a deal breaker. Later, Apple!

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slow_poke_pete

Today at 12:08 AM

navychop said:
Don't tell them that. They'll adopt planned obsolescence.

they all do that anyways.. ever notice your cell phone slows down when you come up for an upgrade.. :what

. apple's been making money off of software and not hardware for a while

ncted

Today at 9:00 AM

KAB said:
Not a bit. IMO, Apple's are slow to boot up. Time is about the same with 1st gen and 3rd. Roku runs rings around them in that department. I only reason I stuck, is the Apple infrastructure, which has it's definite advantages. But $300 is a deal breaker. Later, Apple!

Yeah, they boot up a bit slower than Roku, but the OS does a lot more, so it makes sense. How often are you booting them up that is a differentiator? Aside from OS updates, mine are on all the time. I will say the ATV4K is generally quicker than the Roku Ultras I have, when it comes to launching apps and responsiveness, not that the Roku is sluggish.

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navychop

Today at 2:31 PM

slow_poke_pete said:
apple's been making money off of software and not hardware for a while

What software? For iPhones? I tried to buy some image s/w IN THE APPLE STORE! They had none, and could not offer ANY s/w for iPhones

ncted

Today at 3:45 PM

slow_poke_pete said:
apple's been making money off of software and not hardware for a while

I assume you mean services, like iCloud and Apple Music, and not actual software sales. Services have been growing quickly for Apple, but hardware still brings home the bacon. As for where Apple's revenue comes from, the iPhone is still king with 49.58% of revenue as of June 2026. Services comes in second with 28%. iPad, Mac, and Wearables/Home makes up the rest. So, that is 72% coming from hardware. Their profit margin is around 25%, FWIW.

I am skeptical the AppleTV 4k makes them much money on the hardware though, which I suspect is what you were getting at.

ncted

Today at 3:46 PM

navychop said:
What software? For iPhones? I tried to buy some image s/w IN THE APPLE STORE! They had none, and could not offer ANY s/w for iPhones

You should have looked in the APP STORE instead.

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navychop

Today at 3:48 PM

Will do!

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cpdretired

Supporting Founder

Last reply Today at 3:29 PM · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

Dish Offers

Several Dish offers showed up today in my account. Once you choose one the rest are removed. Offers were Showtime, Starz, AMC and others.

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bnewt

Sep 23, 2026

Just checked my account and it shows mgm+ at 8.00 per month, but that has red line drawn thru it and shows 0.00 per month. But it doesn't say how long this lasts,...... 1 month, 3 months, forever. I called customer service to get an answer, and they said nothing like that exists. Should I add the offer or not? Already paying them too much, but want to take advantage of something free.

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slow_poke_pete

Yesterday at 11:45 PM

bnewt said:
Just checked my account and it shows mgm+ at 8.00 per month, but that has red line drawn thru it and shows 0.00 per month. But it doesn't say how long this lasts,...... 1 month, 3 months, forever. I called customer service to get an answer, and they said nothing like that exists. Should I add the offer or not? Already paying them too much, but want to take advantage of something free.

look again mine says free for 1 month

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Almighty1

Today at 2:13 AM

slow_poke_pete said:
look again mine says free for 1 month

Not for me, mines has no mention of how long aka the offer period and the Terms and conditions the $0.00 is good for. All I see is one can lose $5.00 if you decide to remove it before day 31 after you add it to the account.

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slow_poke_pete

Today at 6:02 AM

Almighty1 said:
Not for me, mines has no mention of how long aka the offer period and the Terms and conditions the $0.00 is good for. All I see is one can lose $5.00 if you decide to remove it before day 31 after you add it to the account.

View attachment 194817

wonder why it says that

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Almighty1

Today at 3:07 PM

slow_poke_pete said:
look again mine says free for 1 month

You have a different offer that is free for a shorter timeframe which is different than the one that I and bnewt saw without defining the promotion period as I sent the question to DISH Care via Facebook Messenger and this is the response I got back 20 minutes ago.

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Almighty1

Today at 3:29 PM

slow_poke_pete said:
wonder why it says that

Answer 2 minutes ago from DISH Care via Facebook Messenger:

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TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Today at 2:23 PM · posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

This Week in Space 232

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4Edq2eavsQ

Direct YouTube Link - This Week in Space 232
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed

0 Replies · 13 views

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TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Today at 1:52 PM · posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Tim Cook, Elton John & King Charles: A Royal Tech Event

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/oRVxjGm0qtE

Direct YouTube Link - Tim Cook, Elton John & King Charles: A Royal Tech Event
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed

0 Replies · 10 views

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TFLEV

Today at 1:22 PM · posted in TFLEV

Watch the New Tesla Roadster Jump, Fly and Barrel-Roll in Mid-Air!

Time for another AWESOME video from TFL Electric Vehicles!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyF_RH1m0mc

Direct YouTube Link - Watch the New Tesla Roadster Jump, Fly and Barrel-Roll in Mid-Air!

0 Replies · 16 views

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TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Today at 1:22 PM · posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

The Apple HomeView

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/0k5iT-OlpdE

Direct YouTube Link - The Apple HomeView
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed

0 Replies · 9 views

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osu1991

Pub Member / Supporter

Last reply Today at 12:59 PM · posted in TV Shows

Frisco King - Paramount Plus

View: https://youtu.be/RHYQYYm5jLM?is=cwxm9t1efsWNl6yy

December 18, 2026 Paramount plus

2 Replies · 66 views

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Howard Simmons

Today at 11:36 AM

osu1991 said:
View: https://youtu.be/RHYQYYm5jLM?is=cwxm9t1efsWNl6yy

December 18, 2026 Paramount plus

Another Tulsa King spin off.

dishstaller

Today at 12:59 PM

Howard Simmons said:
Another Tulsa King spin off.

But.....if you like Tulsa King....looks like you would probably like this as well. I don't mind spin-offs as long as they don't involve a sassy niece who moves from the big city

TheRatPatrol

Last reply Today at 12:50 PM · posted in TV Shows

NCIS

Anyone else watch this show? Any guesses as to what was in the box Gibbs gave to Abby that was on her desk? It look liked it was glowing.

I also heard that someone was leaving the show at the end of this season. Any guesses as to who thats going to be?

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Jimbo

Monday at 11:41 PM

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/BIdMzUBHvjw?feature=share

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Jimbo

Tuesday at 6:25 PM

Jimbo said:
View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/BIdMzUBHvjw?feature=share

Howard ...
You don't like Tony, or Tony as the Director (he's only been there for 30 seconds now) or you don't like NCIS ?

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Howard Simmons

Yesterday at 1:19 PM

Jimbo said:
Howard ...
You don't like Tony, or Tony as the Director (he's only been there for 30 seconds now) or you don't like NCIS ?

Tony as the director.

Jimbo

Yesterday at 2:13 PM

Howard Simmons said:
Tony as the director.

Would you rather have LaRoche ???

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dfergie

Yesterday at 4:37 PM

I liked this episode and a toned down Tony...

Reactions: Jimbo

Howard Simmons

Today at 11:30 AM

Jimbo said:
Would you rather have LaRoche ???

No. Bring in someone new.

Tony is not serious enough for me. Parker is too close to the team and Tim is too young to take over IMO.

Jimbo

Today at 12:50 PM

Howard Simmons said:
No. Bring in someone new. Tony is not serious enough for me. Parker is too close to the team and Tim is too young to take over IMO.

I don't think Tim and Tony are that far apart in Age ...

Remember what Tony said to Tim when they first got back together ...
Tony said: I am the New Tony, Tim .... (something to that effect)

Tony has changed, he's been running his Security Business ... I'm sure he has grown up.

Give it time ... your judging the New Tony from the old Tony.

It sounds like Tim won't be around the Team much longer either.

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VOOM Cries Foul Over INHD and INHD2

DISH Has Made it Impossible to be a VIP211k Owner

Am I the only one that hates what Dish did to their mobile app?

New Apple TV 4K released, plus other Apple Home devices.

Apple TV 4K

Dish Offers

This Week in Space 232

Tim Cook, Elton John & King Charles: A Royal Tech Event

Watch the New Tesla Roadster Jump, Fly and Barrel-Roll in Mid-Air!

The Apple HomeView

Frisco King - Paramount Plus

NCIS