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Last reply · posted in DIRECTV General Forum
Hi!
I received an email from DirecTV offering me FREE replacement HD DVR receivers. I currently have three (3) HR10-250 HD Tivo receivers. I have a few questions:

  1. Does anyone know which receiver they would give me?
  2. Is the DirecTV DVR service alright? I mean, I've heard that the Tivo interface is SO much better, but I'd hate to judge it on rumor alone.
  3. I get to keep my old owned receivers, right?
  4. How does this effect my monthly dvr (currently tivo) fee? Does it change? If so, how?
  5. Is the new equipment to be owned by me? Or is it leased? If leased, is there a monthly fee, and how much?

Lots of questions, I know. But hopefully you guys have answers.

Thanks in advance!

Andrew (buzzbar)
10 Replies · 2568 views
cfb
cfb
My experience in going from directv tivo receivers to the HR2x series was mixed. I heard from the folks on another satellite discussion site that they were as good or better than the tivo in almost every way, and perhaps that set of expectations is why I was somewhat frustrated with the transition.

The HR2x series has some advantages, mostly closer integration with directv's active/real time features.

What you wont like:

- Poor remote control layout, too many buttons too close together. I often go to hit the 'playlist' button and hit the 'record' button or the 'active button.
- Limit of 50 season passes per unit. I tended to watch different shows in summer and winter, and my wife and 4 year old have different viewing habits. I need closer to 80-85. So I'm constantly adding and removing series links to stay under the limit.
- Recording reliability simply isnt as good. With my series 1 tivo's and series 2 directivo's, I missed a show due to a failure of the box or its software maybe a few times a year. I've missed dozens of shows with no explanation with the HR2x's. After the Wife Acceptance Factor dropped below zero, I ended up building an HTPC and hooking that up to the tv so we could watch the shows it misses on Hulu or from the networks web sites.
- Some of the recording functions work differently from tivo...and every other dvr software. For example, if you tell a series link to record 5 episodes a Keep Until I Delete, the unit will record 5 and then delete the oldest one and record a new one. On tivo, I used this function to record 5 or 10 episodes of a show and then have it stop until I watched and deleted one. Since the HR2x's dont work that way, I have to lower series link priorities or remove them when I have more episodes than I want. Big problem with my 4 year olds shows, many of which record 2-4 times per day, every day.
- You cant pick the channels you want, and directvs "channels I get" is enormously unreliable and includes all the PPV channels. With tivo, you can deselect channels you wont watch, you cant do that with the HR. So when you do a search for something, the first thing you'll get is 400 pages of PPV movies and premium channels you dont subscribe to. Sometimes an autorecord wishlist on the HR will record 2 hours of "you dont get this channel" on a channel in the "channels I get" list which you dont actually get.
- Slow. Slow, slow, slow. Folks who favor the HR like to talk about how the HR doesnt give you the interminable "please wait..." messages that tivo issues when reordering series links. That'll be replaced by hitting a button on the remote and having to wait 3-8 seconds for it to react, or taking 20-30 seconds to page through 4-5 pages of guide data listings.
- PC viewing and MRV type capabilities require a powerful network. Tivo transfers the whole show and will work with almost any decent network. You'll need wireless-N, 200Mb/s powerline or better still hard wired connections with the HR's.
- Stability. I have a series 1 tivo thats been running for almost 2 years without rebooting it and it works like clockwork. My series 2 directivo's needed a reboot maybe every 2-3 months. The HR2x's I have freeze or slow down so much they need a reboot about every 2-4 weeks.
- No suggestions. I know some people consider this a plus and are freaked out that the box is "filling itself up with stuff I dont want". I found suggestions to be an invaluable source of things I didnt know about and additional interesting tv. I miss them quite a bit and end up creating more series links to catch stuff I otherwise wouldnt have recorded implicitly. Which brings you back to that 50 series link limit....
- The MPEG4 material has some issues. Due to some equipment incompatibilities and/or tuning issues between the networks, local stations and directv, you may experience video and audio dropouts, "zipper"/"Briiip" sound issues and other maladies. On most of the mpeg4 content I view, I see 3-10 video/audio glitches per hour. This may be improved or resolved over time, but its a huge logistical issue and tug of war between directv and all its programming sources, all of whom feel its "the other guys problem to fix".

Bottom line is that you'll like a handful of the things the HR 2x's do that the tivo doesnt, you'll be annoyed by a handful of things it doesnt do or does differently, and you'll curse the remote control 3-5 times a week.

Lastly, you wont get much for your HR10's on ebay. They have a fairly low value.
Jimbo
My experience in going from directv tivo receivers to the HR2x series was mixed. I heard from the folks on another satellite discussion site that they were as good or better than the tivo in almost every way, and perhaps that set of expectations is why I was somewhat frustrated with the transition.

The HR2x series has some advantages, mostly closer integration with directv's active/real time features.

What you wont like:

- Poor remote control layout, too many buttons too close together. I often go to hit the 'playlist' button and hit the 'record' button or the 'active button.
- Limit of 50 season passes per unit. I tended to watch different shows in summer and winter, and my wife and 4 year old have different viewing habits. I need closer to 80-85. So I'm constantly adding and removing series links to stay under the limit.
- Recording reliability simply isnt as good. With my series 1 tivo's and series 2 directivo's, I missed a show due to a failure of the box or its software maybe a few times a year. I've missed dozens of shows with no explanation with the HR2x's. After the Wife Acceptance Factor dropped below zero, I ended up building an HTPC and hooking that up to the tv so we could watch the shows it misses on Hulu or from the networks web sites.
- Some of the recording functions work differently from tivo...and every other dvr software. For example, if you tell a series link to record 5 episodes a Keep Until I Delete, the unit will record 5 and then delete the oldest one and record a new one. On tivo, I used this function to record 5 or 10 episodes of a show and then have it stop until I watched and deleted one. Since the HR2x's dont work that way, I have to lower series link priorities or remove them when I have more episodes than I want. Big problem with my 4 year olds shows, many of which record 2-4 times per day, every day.
- You cant pick the channels you want, and directvs "channels I get" is enormously unreliable and includes all the PPV channels. With tivo, you can deselect channels you wont watch, you cant do that with the HR. So when you do a search for something, the first thing you'll get is 400 pages of PPV movies and premium channels you dont subscribe to. Sometimes an autorecord wishlist on the HR will record 2 hours of "you dont get this channel" on a channel in the "channels I get" list which you dont actually get.
- Slow. Slow, slow, slow. Folks who favor the HR like to talk about how the HR doesnt give you the interminable "please wait..." messages that tivo issues when reordering series links. That'll be replaced by hitting a button on the remote and having to wait 3-8 seconds for it to react, or taking 20-30 seconds to page through 4-5 pages of guide data listings.
- PC viewing and MRV type capabilities require a powerful network. Tivo transfers the whole show and will work with almost any decent network. You'll need wireless-N, 200Mb/s powerline or better still hard wired connections with the HR's.
- Stability. I have a series 1 tivo thats been running for almost 2 years without rebooting it and it works like clockwork. My series 2 directivo's needed a reboot maybe every 2-3 months. The HR2x's I have freeze or slow down so much they need a reboot about every 2-4 weeks.
- No suggestions. I know some people consider this a plus and are freaked out that the box is "filling itself up with stuff I dont want". I found suggestions to be an invaluable source of things I didnt know about and additional interesting tv. I miss them quite a bit and end up creating more series links to catch stuff I otherwise wouldnt have recorded implicitly. Which brings you back to that 50 series link limit....
- The MPEG4 material has some issues. Due to some equipment incompatibilities and/or tuning issues between the networks, local stations and directv, you may experience video and audio dropouts, "zipper"/"Briiip" sound issues and other maladies. On most of the mpeg4 content I view, I see 3-10 video/audio glitches per hour. This may be improved or resolved over time, but its a huge logistical issue and tug of war between directv and all its programming sources, all of whom feel its "the other guys problem to fix".

Bottom line is that you'll like a handful of the things the HR 2x's do that the tivo doesnt, you'll be annoyed by a handful of things it doesnt do or does differently, and you'll curse the remote control 3-5 times a week.

Lastly, you wont get much for your HR10's on ebay. They have a fairly low value.

Ok ......
Now about all these issues you seem to have that I DON'T with MY Hr series DVR.

Poor remote layout ? Once I got use to it, No Problem.

Limit of 50 Season Passes ?
Many have mentioned wanting more than this, personally, I use 12. I don't record every new show on TV, just the ones I like.

- Recording reliability simply isnt as good. With my series 1 tivo's and series 2 directivo's, I missed a show due to a failure of the box or its software maybe a few times a year. I've missed dozens of shows with no explanation with the HR2x's. After the Wife Acceptance Factor dropped below zero, I ended up building an HTPC and hooking that up to the tv so we could watch the shows it misses on Hulu or from the networks web sites.

I'm not sure if I have EVER missed recording a show, outside of operator error, this happens hardly ever.

- Some of the recording functions work differently from tivo...and every other dvr software.

Of course it does, it's developed by someone other than TIVO, Thank you.

if you tell a series link to record 5 episodes a Keep Until I Delete, the unit will record 5 and then delete the oldest one and record a new one. On tivo, I used this function to record 5 or 10 episodes of a show and then have it stop until I watched and deleted one. Since the HR2x's dont work that way, I have to lower series link priorities or remove them when I have more episodes than I want.
Simple solution, tell it to Keep it till disk is full, then it won't record over others, delete them when you don't want them.

- You cant pick the channels you want, and directvs "channels I get" is enormously unreliable and includes all the PPV channels. With tivo, you can deselect channels you wont watch, you cant do that with the HR.

All you need to do is make a Custom list up in the Favorites section.
I've never used the AutoRecord, so, no comment.

- Slow. Slow, slow, slow.
Not as S L O W as the old HR250's

- PC viewing and MRV type capabilities require a powerful network. Tivo transfers the whole show and will work with almost any decent network. You'll need wireless-N, 200Mb/s powerline or better still hard wired connections with the HR's.
This is a work in progress, give it time.

- Stability. I have a series 1 tivo thats been running for almost 2 years without rebooting it and it works like clockwork. My series 2 directivo's needed a reboot maybe every 2-3 months. The HR2x's I have freeze or slow down so much they need a reboot about every 2-4 weeks.
I have been using HR series DVR's since they came out and are very reliable and stable, only time I reboot mine is when I decide (CE).

- No suggestions.
Remember this is NOT SUPPOSE to be a TIVO. as for the Suggestions,If I had the feature, I'd turn it OFF immediately.

- The MPEG4 material has some issues. Due to some equipment incompatibilities and/or tuning issues between the networks, local stations and directv, you may experience video and audio dropouts, "zipper"/"Briiip" sound issues and other maladies. On most of the mpeg4 content I view, I see 3-10 video/audio glitches per hour. This may be improved or resolved over time, but its a huge logistical issue and tug of war between directv and all its programming sources, all of whom feel its "the other guys problem to fix".
And I bet the TIVO's are perfect, fwiw, I have never had a zipper or Briiiip experience.

Lastly, you wont get much for your HR10's on ebay. They have a fairly low value.
Yup, very low value on any OLDER units as they do not work with NEW technology, at least not everything does.

Buzzbar,
Welcome to the site !
You'll find plenty of people with opinions one way or the other.
Gotta love the guys with a TIVO love fest and a D* dislike, you'd think they would move on to something else, but I guess not.

fwiw, like I mentioned, I have been using HR series DVR's for many years now, since they came out and they have come a long ways from the beginning .... adding new features, trying to cover things others like, (Dual turner buffering) also something new that is a work in progress.
Multi Room Viewing being the other thing they are working on at the moment.

Just because others had/have it, doesn't mean D* NEEDS it.
D* now has a nice little feature called "ScoreGuide" something that I user all the time and am happy to see, I don't know if any other provider does that or not.

They have interactive channels ( I don't use them much, but they are there).
As for the Remote, you'll get use to it, just like any other one.

Give it a go, you'll be fine :)
B
Poor remote layout ? Once I got use to it, No Problem.

I use a Harmony remote, so not an issue for me.

Limit of 50 Season Passes ? Many have mentioned wanting more than this, personally, I use 12. I don't record every new show on TV, just the ones I like.

This part would suck for me, since we have (67). But I'm sure I can manage.

- Recording reliability simply isnt as good. With my series 1 tivo's and series 2 directivo's, I missed a show due to a failure of the box or its software maybe a few times a year. I've missed dozens of shows with no explanation with the HR2x's. After the Wife Acceptance Factor dropped below zero, I ended up building an HTPC and hooking that up to the tv so we could watch the shows it misses on Hulu or from the networks web sites.


I'm not sure if I have EVER missed recording a show, outside of operator error, this happens hardly ever.

I can only hope that the truth is somewhere in the middle here. My Tivo dvr (HR10-250) has been a real workhouse. Recording quality is EXCELLENT, and very reliable. I do have to reboot about once a month I'd say.

- Some of the recording functions work differently from tivo...and every other dvr software.

Of course it does, it's developed by someone other than TIVO, Thank you.

What recording functions work differently? What exactly? I just want to be able to record my shows, and watch it later, scan through the commercials, etc...

if you tell a series link to record 5 episodes a Keep Until I Delete, the unit will record 5 and then delete the oldest one and record a new one. On tivo, I used this function to record 5 or 10 episodes of a show and then have it stop until I watched and deleted one. Since the HR2x's dont work that way, I have to lower series link priorities or remove them when I have more episodes than I want.
Simple solution, tell it to Keep it till disk is full, then it won't record over others, delete them when you don't want them.

Sounds fine. I usually don't keep episodes that long anyway.

- You cant pick the channels you want, and directvs "channels I get" is enormously unreliable and includes all the PPV channels. With tivo, you can deselect channels you wont watch, you cant do that with the HR.

All you need to do is make a Custom list up in the Favorites section.
I've never used the AutoRecord, so, no comment.

I seldom use the channel guide anyway. Most of the type I search for my programs to be honest.

- Slow. Slow, slow, slow.
Not as S L O W as the old HR250's

My old HR250 is fast. What do you mean when you say, 'slow. slow, slow, slow'? The reaction of the remote? The clicking between guides? Please explain.

- PC viewing and MRV type capabilities require a powerful network. Tivo transfers the whole show and will work with almost any decent network. You'll need wireless-N, 200Mb/s powerline or better still hard wired connections with the HR's.
This is a work in progress, give it time.

Are you referring to networking recording to a computer? Or sharing among other TVs?

- Stability. I have a series 1 tivo thats been running for almost 2 years without rebooting it and it works like clockwork. My series 2 directivo's needed a reboot maybe every 2-3 months. The HR2x's I have freeze or slow down so much they need a reboot about every 2-4 weeks.
I have been using HR series DVR's since they came out and are very reliable and stable, only time I reboot mine is when I decide (CE).

Again, hopefully the truth is somewhere in the middle.

- No suggestions.
Remember this is NOT SUPPOSE to be a TIVO. as for the Suggestions,If I had the feature, I'd turn it OFF immediately.

I don't use suggestions either, so no big deal.

- The MPEG4 material has some issues. Due to some equipment incompatibilities and/or tuning issues between the networks, local stations and directv, you may experience video and audio dropouts, "zipper"/"Briiip" sound issues and other maladies. On most of the mpeg4 content I view, I see 3-10 video/audio glitches per hour. This may be improved or resolved over time, but its a huge logistical issue and tug of war between directv and all its programming sources, all of whom feel its "the other guys problem to fix".
And I bet the TIVO's are perfect, fwiw, I have never had a zipper or Briiiip experience.

I'm a bit worried about this. My Tivo picture is, in fact, perfect. Sorry. So hopefully it's not as bad as you say.

Lastly, you wont get much for your HR10's on ebay. They have a fairly low value.
Yup, very low value on any OLDER units as they do not work with NEW technology, at least not everything does.

That's probably true. But they're bought and paid for, so anything I get is pure profit at this point (sort of). ;)

Buzzbar,
Welcome to the site !
You'll find plenty of people with opinions one way or the other.
Gotta love the guys with a TIVO love fest and a D* dislike, you'd think they would move on to something else, but I guess not.

fwiw, like I mentioned, I have been using HR series DVR's for many years now, since they came out and they have come a long ways from the beginning .... adding new features, trying to cover things others like, (Dual turner buffering) also something new that is a work in progress.
Multi Room Viewing being the other thing they are working on at the moment.

Just because others had/have it, doesn't mean D* NEEDS it.
D* now has a nice little feature called "ScoreGuide" something that I user all the time and am happy to see, I don't know if any other provider does that or not.

They have interactive channels ( I don't use them much, but they are there).
As for the Remote, you'll get use to it, just like any other one.

Give it a go, you'll be fine

Thanks! I appreciate it.
cfb
cfb
Buzzbear -

As you can see, there are a lot of factors at play and user perception along with the product progression has a lot to do with it.

Since I think I just got painted as a tivo fanboy and directv hater, I should probably mention that I've been a subscriber to both products almost since their inception. I like many things about both products/services but realize there are things that can be annoying about them as well. In point of fact, I've had plenty of harsh criticism for tivo over the years while being generally quite favorable of directv's products and services.

I read your post in the context of someone thinking of migrating from a tivo product to the current directv product. If you were a directv non-dvr user looking to pick up a dvr, or a new prospective directv customer coming over from cable who had never had a dvr, I'd think you would find the HR2x series to be a very fine product with some quirks. But the ability to record shows when you'd never been able to do that before would be so terrific you'd probably never notice those quirks.

Where I've experienced issues and seen others become frustrated is in the directv-tivo or cable based tivos to directv HR2x migration. Tivo users tend to be heavy dvr users and have gotten used to how the product works. The HR2x series, while far better than it was two years ago, or even a year ago, is still a work in progress. There have been a half dozen times in the last year that I'd have willingly given these boxes back to directv and was only held back by the high cancellation fee and existing investment in directv hardware.

As far as the legitimacy of the problems I've mentioned, each and every one has been acknowledged by Directv as a known issue that they are currently working on, and there are many threads in many discussion groups regarding them.

For example, heres a thread with 809 current responses regarding the audio zipper/briiip issue, directv's acknowledgement of the issue, and some of the things done/still to be done to resolve it.

Brrrrriiiiip getting worse? - DBSTalk.Com

In my opinion, unless you've lost or will soon lose an important capability from your existing receivers, you might be better served to wait until the new directv tivo product is released and appears stable, which might be 8-10 months. If you just cant wait that long, then you will probably be able to make due with the HR2x boxes, but be advised you will have some significant migration issues and perhaps a good bit of frustration with the products from time to time.
K
As someone who has an open mind and a neutral stance (I've been using the HR10 and HR20 side-by-side since the HR20 came out) let me reassure you that HR20 is a fine machine. I will admit that reliability is slightly on the HR10's side, but only because of full disk issues, usually. The HR20 has missed a handful of shows in the last year. You will love the convenience of not having to stop everything to do maintenance such as checking the To-Do List or searching for shows. You can set up series links without blocking the screen as in the case of the TiVo guide. The other bells and whistles make the HR20 a total entertainment center.

If your TVs support Picture-in-Picture, I would encourage you to keep your HR10s on-line next to the HR20. You will be able to record network programming over the air, and you can keep an eye on a 2nd show with the PIP. Unless you can't stand distractions in the big picture, you'll thank me for it.
B
Thanks guys. I appreciate the input.

I just got off the phone with Directv. I made the plunge. They said since I've been a loyal customer since 2001 I qualified for the free upgrade. So they're coming out on Thursday to upgrade my dish and the three receivers.

I just can't wait for Tivo and Directv to get their act together. The Tivo/Directv receiver is still probably a year away. My old HR10-250 is slowly sinking into obsolescence.

I'll report back with my opinions after the switchover.

Thanks again!

buzzbar
osu1991
Pub Member / Supporter
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club

The number-one US state for EV growth, according to the June 22 Yardi report?
Oklahoma.


:eek


It has no ZEV mandates and "minimal" incentives, Yardi says, but also has cheap electricity, high multi-car household rates (so, for example, a non-Lightning Ford F-150 pulls their trailers), and a consumer base willing to switch.
112 Replies · 887 views
navychop
Servant's problem.
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meStevo

Never realized that Tesla is losing to BYD at manufacturing too, which IMO is Tesla's biggest accomplishment and area of innovation. Nice writeup about the state of play and how we got here though. I have no faith that we're moving any productive direction though sadly, most changes and efforts feel reactionary rather than rooted in making use of the time being bought by tariffs, with few exceptions.

So: how are the cars so cheap, and what is being cut to get there? The best public accounting comes from the Rhodium Group, which compared BYD, Geely, and Leapmotor against Tesla's Chinese operation, a fair comparison because it removes labor costs and shipping from the equation entirely. Their estimate is that BYD builds a car for about $4,700 less than Tesla builds a Model 3 in Shanghai, roughly 15 percent of the Model 3's price. The breakdown is the interesting part. Direct government grants account for about $292 per vehicle, which is 5 percent of the gap. The biggest single factor is vertical integration: BYD makes about 80 percent of its top-tier components in-house, against 37 percent for Tesla, and that eliminates roughly $2,369 per vehicle in supplier markups. Lower overhead, meaning cheaper engineering talent and administrative cost spread across enormous volume, accounts for another $1,719. And BYD pays its suppliers on 155-day terms, against Tesla's 60, which is worth about $214 per car in float. When people say the Chinese advantage is subsidies, the per-vehicle number says otherwise. When people say it is slave wages, the Tesla Shanghai comparison says otherwise too. The advantage is mostly that BYD decided, twenty years ago, to make its own batteries, its own motors, its own power electronics, and its own semiconductors, and Western automakers decided the opposite.​
harshness
The EV company to watch out for is SAIC. They seem likely to take over Government Motors at some point.

GM originally struck a JV deal with SAIC to gain access to China. Now SAIC has taken China back with the substantial library of technology GM shared and they're looking to export to Mexico, South America, the Middle East, and Asia-Pacific.
osu1991
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Ham Radio 2.0
· posted in Ham Radio 2.0
0 Replies · 7 views
Peter Parker
Supporting Founder Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in DISH Network Support Forum
No idea what improvements might be involved.
18 Replies · 769 views
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bookworm370
Has anyone noticed an FF stutter with 713? I used to be able to hit FF a few times and skip smoothly. After 713 (maybe 712), when I skip forward, there is a definite stutter for as many times as I have pressed FF.

Can anyone check on this and report back? Recorded programs and then press skip forward a few times to see if it's smooth? Normally, it just jumps to the right place after the skips.
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N
I'm getting fabulous picture on Ch. 148 4k, but zero audio with H713. This is with a recorded show (Notre Dame game). Anyone else have this? Audio is fine on every other channel.
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R
Has anyone noticed an FF stutter with 713? I used to be able to hit FF a few times and skip smoothly. After 713 (maybe 712), when I skip forward, there is a definite stutter for as many times as I have pressed FF.

Can anyone check on this and report back? Recorded programs and then press skip forward a few times to see if it's smooth? Normally, it just jumps to the right place after the skips.
My wife mentioned that her remote is acting strange this morning. She hit FF and it went to 15x FF.
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Bobby
I'm getting fabulous picture on Ch. 148 4k, but zero audio with H713. This is with a recorded show (Notre Dame game). Anyone else have this? Audio is fine on every other channel.
This has been an ongoing issue. A fix is coming, probably in the next software version.
Foxbat
Wife bought me a t-shirt that has "have you tried turning it off and on again?"
Here's the one I need:
1792365258110.webp
Ramy
Supporting Founder
Last reply · posted in The Sports Section
Really excited for this season with Kentucky having a new coach and some really exciting recruits. Probably won't last long, but here's hoping this season is great.
148 Replies · 1722 views
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Foxbat
They ought to have fun with this… :devilish
osu1991
They ought to have fun with this… :devilish
Was thinking same thing. It should be a good week for sec shorts and roll call
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R
A lot of upsets yesterday, but my LSU Tigers won.
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Foxbat
Best fan sign I saw during the ND-BYU game: "Bear ate your Lucky Charms!" (Bear being the Cougars' QB). I was going to suggest, "Have you or your team been involved in a Carr crash?"
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meStevo
Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
A continuation of a thread from the pub, just general discussion of AI.

Brief 60 minute clip about next gem autonomous fighters - not remote controlled, but rather collaborating with controllers and aircraft in the theater.


View: https://youtu.be/DRm0mbp_n1k


We've literally got a movie already about this ;)


View: https://youtu.be/a2PW7a9ViDc
67 Replies · 1134 views
meStevo
Agreed, it mostly regurgitates known solutions. That's the point. Nobody needs an innovative fix for a driver error or a creative way to format a report. Let it handle the solved problems so people can spend their time on the ones that aren't.
harshness
Agreed, it mostly regurgitates known solutions. That's the point.
That's the point at which innovation ends, and there's no longer any point to software engineering other than swatting bugs that result from misapplication.
meStevo
That's the point at which innovation ends, and there's no longer any point to software engineering other than swatting bugs that result from misapplication.

Addressed by what you didn't quote. This cycle is as old as computing: compilers, libraries, frameworks each automated the tedious part, and the human work moved up a level. Innovation didn't end; it shifted. And people still make new compilers, libraries or frameworks.

Nobody's forced to hand anything off. Anyone who wants to keep doing it by hand still can, and people who couldn't do it at all now can.
harshness
... and people who couldn't do it at all now can.
Misapplication isn't something that the casual coder can identify. They can only discover, the hard way, that it doesn't work at some point.
meStevo
Misapplication isn't something that the casual coder can identify. They can only discover, the hard way, that it doesn't work at some point.
You're not wrong, but that's part of learning. Whether from others or our own mistakes, we've all learned that lesson one way or another.
harshness
Whether from others or our own mistakes, we've all learned that lesson one way or another.
I'm not sure that the school of hard knocks is the quickest or surest education to find your way.

There are many examples in the headlines of people getting burned multiple times and not wavering in their pursuit of stupidity.
meStevo
I'm not sure that the school of hard knocks is the quickest or surest education to find your way.

Good thing not everyone will have to learn the hard way then. The same tools can explain why something broke.

There are many examples in the headlines of people getting burned multiple times and not wavering in their pursuit of stupidity.

This is true of literally anything, though.

Happy to agree to disagree, but I'm already enjoying the dividends personally and helping others at work and at home do the same.
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dishstaller
Been reading this thread but not commenting much, primarily because there is so much "news" out there on this topic and it is hard to tell what is real and what is theater.
My biggest problem with AI is that these agents are taught...not necessarily programmed but taught. Well, there's an old saying "garbage in/garbage out". I remember a Joe Rogan show a while back when he had Elon Musk on and they talked about AI and Elon said one of the AIs (can't remember which one, sorry) was asked which was worse, Thermonuclear War or mis-gendering Kaitlyn Jenner and it came back with the answer that mis-gendering was worse. Now forget the politics involved with all the gender stuff we have been subjected to the past few years.....to say that mis-gendering is worse than the killing of hundreds of millions, perhaps billions of human beings.....Kaitlyn Jenner included.....is simply insane not to mention incredibly dangerous.
meStevo
Been reading this thread but not commenting much, primarily because there is so much "news" out there on this topic and it is hard to tell what is real and what is theater.
My biggest problem with AI is that these agents are taught...not necessarily programmed but taught. Well, there's an old saying "garbage in/garbage out". I remember a Joe Rogan show a while back when he had Elon Musk on and they talked about AI and Elon said one of the AIs (can't remember which one, sorry) was asked which was worse, Thermonuclear War or mis-gendering Kaitlyn Jenner and it came back with the answer that mis-gendering was worse. Now forget the politics involved with all the gender stuff we have been subjected to the past few years.....to say that mis-gendering is worse than the killing of hundreds of millions, perhaps billions of human beings.....Kaitlyn Jenner included.....is simply insane not to mention incredibly dangerous.

Agents need appropriate context to make what would be understood as the correct read in a situation like that, and that Gemini answer was a clear miss on that front.

That said, we've also seen Musk (and/or his team) put his thumb on the scale (or just release a very poor product) with his own deployed AI since:


In the end, it's all a tool. Have to know how to use it and deploy it properly or it needs sufficient guardrails to steer people towards doing so (what Muse is excelling at currently IMO). I'm routinely interacting with several agents a day operating various processes locally and in services I use, and there are numerous others silently spun up to perform actions or satisfy requests from my prompts.

Related to earlier discussion in the thread on leveraging local inference: this kind of analysis happening behind the scenes is something everyone will have built into Windows, IMO. Most people won't see all of this, just the results, unless they want to dig into how the fix was chosen. Stuff like this will be standard as agents get local system access baked in, and more of the inference itself moves on-device.

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T
Good thing not everyone will have to learn the hard way then. The same tools can explain why something broke.



This is true of literally anything, though.

Happy to agree to disagree, but I'm already enjoying the dividends personally and helping others at work and at home do the same.
You invested in datacenters?
meStevo
You invested in datacenters?


Though, I do have stocks in my portfolio that benefit from data centers.
TWiT Tech Podcast Network
· posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network
0 Replies · 12 views
Former member 208119
Last reply · posted in SiriusXM Satellite Radio
My year was almost up and we got the new bill for a year of service for $ 360.00 insane sat radio is becoming like cable!!! i logged into my acct and hopped onto chat and told the rep that i wanted to cancel. she understood my concern and went quiet for a few minutes. i figured that she was canceling my service. she comes back and said that she seen that i have been a sub since 07 and then offers me the same package for a year for 120.00 with taxes and fee's!!! i grabbed it. after almost having a stroke :biggrin
236 Replies · 10945 views
B
What i noticed with my last renewal XM is now billing me $4.99 monthly instead of one time yearly payment.
Jimbo
What i noticed with my last renewal XM is now billing me $.99 monthly instead of one time yearly payment.
Did you accidentally get on the wrong plan ?
I still do the once a year plans.
EarDemon
I tried to do that, when I did delivery driver work (2010- 2013), we had a fleet of Freightliners. The newer trucks had headunits that were satellite compatible (XM only I think), but lacked the antenna and guts. I got a car kt for my old Roady XT and tried to use it, but at the volume levels I needed have it at to hear it over the diesel engine it sounded like crap, so I used my phone with an aux cable. When I was in the middle of nowhere with no cell service it didn't do me any good though.

At my current job, one of our new cars has the free trial of SXM active, I frequently have to go off site to a location 75 miles away in a rural area and it's nice being able to use the service off of the satellites versus using the app. There are many places on this journey where all three providers lack service.
B
Did you accidentally get on the wrong plan ?
I still do the once a year plans.
I have to think maybe more people dont keep track of the monthly XM bill. Every time i renew i put a reminder on my calendar week before its time to renew. My wife told me the other day not to renew her and then i told her you are not going to be able to listen to XM at home. Then she changed her mind...!!
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TRG
TRG
I have to think maybe more people dont keep track of the monthly XM bill. Every time i renew i put a reminder on my calendar week before its time to renew. My wife told me the other day not to renew her and then i told her you are not going to be able to listen to XM at home. Then she changed her mind...!!
I get an e-mail every month reminding me that X amount will be charged to my credit card. If I see it go up I get on chat or pick up the phone. But I also remember that my year is up in December.
B
I get an e-mail every month reminding me that X amount will be charged to my credit card. If I see it go up I get on chat or pick up the phone. But I also remember that my year is up in December.
yea i don't understand WHY, like you I get a notice each month. Mine is also up in December.
Jimbo
yea i don't understand WHY, like you I get a notice each month. Mine is also up in December.
You get an email every month to let you know they are billing you for the next month.
Scott Greczkowski
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne


Get it?


An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....
68525 Replies · 2672502 views
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Bobby
Mississippi Cotton Picking Delta Town - Charley Pride
harshness
Delta Dawn - Tanya Tucker
dishstaller
Can't You See - Marshall Tucker Band
sdfntx
See You in September - The Happenings
long_time_Dish
You Look Like You Love Me - Ella Langley
meStevo
Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in The Sports Section
Schedule drops tomorrow. Mandatory mini camps in June. Hall of Fame game August 6th.
111 Replies · 1716 views
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osu1991
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M
Hopefully nowhere near a microphone.
Y
Hopefully nowhere near a microphone.
After having experienced Gus Ferguson trying to call soccer games, I'm uncertain why NFL football analysts get hate. Even the "worst" of them are pretty good.
meStevo
Jalen Hurts out indefinitely as they treat and monitor a superficial blood clot in his leg.


View: https://x.com/RapSheet/status/2111074303185989663?s=20
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meStevo
Browns lead the AFC North 🤣

Seth Meyers What GIF by Late Night with Seth Meyers
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