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Last reply · posted in The Sports Section
Interesting...

Don Fehr, the controversial long-time executive director of Major League Baseball's Players Association, is retiring after 25 years. He will leave a controversial legacy on a number of issues, such as the explosion of players' salaries and his role in the 1994 Strike that resulted in the World Series being canceled. The most important and damaging part of his legacy will be his handling of the issue of steroid testing. Why did he mess up the steroid issue so badly? That he screwed it up is almost beyond discussion at this point. Even he admitted before Congress that he misjudged the situation and failed to handle it properly.

The steroid scandal is in another league because it goes to the credibility of the game itself and it will taint the legacies of some of the most famous players in Major League history as well as an entire era of play. Of course, there is plenty of blame to go around and many others deserve that blame, but he was different. As the powerful representative of the players', he was often the lone voice of opposition to steroid testing for years. Is there any doubt that if he had insisted on comprehensive steroid testing in 2000 or 2002, the game of baseball would be in a much better position today?

The steroid scandal was a ticking time-bomb that was going to explode at some point. That should have been obvious, especially to someone involved with the issue so closely and for so long. Perhaps he fell into a trap of opposing anything and everything proposed by the Commissioner, even if it had merit. He possibly thought that is would send a bad message for the Players Association to give in on anything and reduce their influence in other areas. It really, though, should not have been that difficult to see that blind opposition to steroid testing was unsustainable and would result in negative effects in later years.

The current situation is unpleasant for baseball: widespread suspicion, ruined careers, suspensions and a tainted era in the record books. He did not create the problem, but bears responsibility for prolonging it. When the subject of testing for steroids was first really starting to make headway in 2002, Fehr testified before a Senate Commerce subcommittee, and others were disappointed with his response:
Management officials were disappointed at Fehr's stand on testing. "Everyone in the room — with the exception of one person — favors the testing program. There wasn't much opposition, just one abstention," said MLB President and Chief Operating Officer Bob DuPuy, referring to Fehr.
​
It is particularly ironic that in his zeal to protect the players from the evils of testing, he ended up hurting those same players much more than if they just had the testing from the beginning. How many of them wish now that they had stringent, Olympic-style testing from 1996 (or even 2000) onward? Fehr said for a long time that testing would be an invasion of privacy for the players. This argument was flimsy and counterproductive. Other sports have had tough steroid testing for years: the NFL started testing in 1987!

Tom Verducci writes in Sports Illustrated that Fehr thought letting the steroid culture run its course was advisable.
He truly believed he was doing right by his players by letting the steroid culture run its course, by some ratio of design to ignorance (though more than a dollop of ignorance from such a smart man challenges the imagination).
​
If true, this says a lot about Donald Fehr and why his response to the steroid scandal was so inadequate. There was never any chance of the issue running its course on its own. Even if the culture of steroids could have "run its course" (which is doubtful), testing was needed so that people on the outside could be certain that the game was clean.

It was a messy, ugly issue to start with and has only gotten worse over time. Dealing with it effectively for Fehr would have meant selling the players on the necessity of steroid testing. As difficult as it is to imagine the players jumping at it in the early years of the scandal, something tells me that if he could have explained how their earning potential was tied to being in a clean sport, they would have gone along with it. He (and others) made a series of bad choices and baseball will be dealing with the consequences for a long time. The game of baseball is paying a heavy price, and so will Fehr's legacy.


Sandra
29 Replies · 3789 views
salsadancer7
Personally I would like to see the union protect the clean players too, not just the dirty players. ;)


Sandra

Well...unfortunately.....you cannot have both....you either have all or nothing. IF you go back to nothing....then you go back to the Curt Flood days of pseudo slave trade...
S
Well...unfortunately.....you cannot have both....you either have all or nothing. IF you go back to nothing....then you go back to the Curt Flood days of pseudo slave trade...

A tougher steroid policy would have protected both. Protected the clean players by giving them a level playing field, and protecting the dirty players like Ken Caminiti from themselves.


Sandra
salsadancer7
A tougher steroid policy would have protected both. Protected the clean players by giving them a level playing field, and protecting the dirty players like Ken Caminiti from themselves.


Sandra

No tell me....YOU being one of the players....and the history of the mistrust by the players...and the fact that they were promised the names would never be leaked of the 104 positive test....

...would YOU trust the owners of doing "whats in the best interest of baseball"?

REALLY think about that question.....
S
No tell me....YOU being one of the players....and the history of the mistrust by the players...and the fact that they were promised the names would never be leaked of the 104 positive test....

...would YOU trust the owners of doing "whats in the best interest of baseball"?

REALLY think about that question.....

You can't use the leaking of the 104 names in your argument for why the union didn't agree to a tougher policy from, say 1995-2005, since it just happened this year. Let's use some logic.

The bottom line is, a tougher steroid policy would have been the best thing for the players...ALL the players. The union should have been the ones dragging MLB into a tougher steroid policy, not the other way around.


Sandra
cosmo_kramer
The bottom line is, a tougher steroid policy would have been the best thing for the players...ALL the players. The union should have been the ones dragging MLB into a tougher steroid policy, not the other way around.
I guess this could be the ultimate definition of wishful thinking.

I do agree that the union should have welcomed a tough steroid policy with open arms, but, please show me a union, any union who would offer or suggest a policy that penalizes its own members.
S
I guess this could be the ultimate definition of wishful thinking.

I do agree that the union should have welcomed a tough steroid policy with open arms, but, please show me a union, any union who would offer or suggest a policy that penalizes its own members.

I suppose that's the point, penalizing cheaters, while not in the best interest of the cheaters, is in the best interest of the union as a whole. Fehr should have realized that, but he decided to protect the cheaters, which in effect created more cheaters.

And this is not some new phenomena nobody has ever heard of. Every (well, most...perhaps every) union contract has penalty provisions for employees who break company policy or break the law.


Sandra
salsadancer7
I suppose that's the point, penalizing cheaters, while not in the best interestof the cheaters, is in the best interest of the union as a whole. Fehr should have realized that, but he decided to protect the cheaters, which in effect created more cheaters.

And this is not some new phenomena nobody has ever heard of. Every (well, most...perhaps every) union contract has penalty provisions for employees who break company policy or break the law.


Sandra

Best interest is to protect ALL in the union....whether they cheated or not. The idea is not to seperate the cheaters from the non-cheater....that is not their job.
S
Best interest is to protect ALL in the union....whether they cheated or not. The idea is not to seperate the cheaters from the non-cheater....that is not their job.

Exactly, Fehr should protect ALL the players in the union, not just the cheaters. We agree!


Sandra
salsadancer7
Exactly, Fehr should protect ALL the players in the union, not just the cheaters. We agree!


Sandra

And that is exactly what they did on the LAST CBA. Until the next one comes up, this is a non-issue.

Tell me, don't you think the head of the union has not ALREADY spoken to all the team reps? And don't you think that IF they had totally agreed with with Fehr, they would have not gotten rid of his a$$ if he did not meet HIS demands?

...your post sounds like the head of the union is acting on his own asn the players do not agree with what he/they have said or done....
cosmo_kramer
And this is not some new phenomena nobody has ever heard of. Every (well, most...perhaps every) union contract has penalty provisions for employees who break company policy or break the law.
I agree, but in every case those penalty provisions were initiated by the company, not the union. The union is never going to suggest penalties of its members and it's ridiculous to suggest that they do. In the MLB case though, they should not have fought them as hard as they did, just from a public relations standpoint....
S
Tell me, don't you think the head of the union has not ALREADY spoken to all the team reps? And don't you think that IF they had totally agreed with with Fehr, they would have not gotten rid of his a$$ if he did not meet HIS demands?

Who do you think is going to be the first player to disagree with a union? :rolleyes:

CBA's over the years have protected the cheaters much more than the collective.


Sandra
S
I agree, but in every case those penalty provisions were initiated by the company, not the union. The union is never going to suggest penalties of its members and it's ridiculous to suggest that they do. In the MLB case though, they should not have fought them as hard as they did, just from a public relations standpoint....

Does your last sentence mean the union shouldn't have fought MLB as much as they did regarding testing, from a public relations standpoint?


Sandra
cosmo_kramer
Does your last sentence mean the union shouldn't have fought MLB as much as they did regarding testing, from a public relations standpoint?
Yes. Taking that stance gave the impression that were lots of problems in that area as opposed to sending a message that there was just a few bad apples. Unfortunately though, it looks like that first impression was correct....
Paul Wozniak
Who do you think is going to be the first player to disagree with a union? :rolleyes:

CBA's over the years have protected the cheaters much more than the collective.


Sandra

:up:up:up
cosmo_kramer
CBA's over the years have protected the cheaters much more than the collective.
If you're not doing anything wrong, already have good working conditions and already are very highly paid, what do you have to be protected for??
S
If you're not doing anything wrong, already have good working conditions and already are very highly paid, what do you have to be protected for??

From your fellow union members who are using illegal drugs to make themselves better ballplayers than you. And they're protected by your own union. ;)


Sandra
salsadancer7
From your fellow union members who are using illegal drugs to make themselves better ballplayers than you. And they're protected by your own union. ;)


Sandra

This is just like clean cops/dirty cops. They wanna make sure EVERYONE knows they are clean...but refuse to clean it up among themselves because they are afraid of be considered a "rat".

...well, time to "rat" people out if you wanna make sure everyone knows you are not one of "them".

...ESPECIALLY if the clean outnumber the dirty ones.
K
Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in TV Shows
Season 2 order already in hand:

'Star Trek: Starfleet Academy' Renewed for Season 2, Tatiana Maslany to Guest Star in Season 1

I've not been optimistic about this show based on what I've read so far. Seems to be aimed at a younger audience. Interesting though that Tatiana Maslany will have some sort of role.
84 Replies · 3355 views
K
I'm sure I will watch at least the first episode but I am not optimistic.
K
I'm sure I will watch at least the first episode but I am not optimistic.
Here i am over a year later and just finished season 1. Not great but not as bad as I was expecting. Did not care for the barefoot captain stuff but overall ok. Actually looking forward to see what they did for season 2.
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MikeD-C05
Here i am over a year later and just finished season 1. Not great but not as bad as I was expecting. Did not care for the barefoot captain stuff but overall ok. Actually looking forward to see what they did for season 2.
Yeah, the foot stuff was just nasty. I kept thinking of how dirty her feet would get traipsing around shoe-less. Funny, I love being shoe less at home and never wear shoes indoors in my home for long, but seeing her laying on all her furniture with her bare feet hanging out just kind of grossed me out.
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harshness
I kept thinking of how dirty her feet would get traipsing around shoe-less.
Where would this "dirt" come from? Dead skin and dandruff?
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MikeD-C05
Where would this "dirt" come from? Dead skin and dandruff?
There would still be dirt ,dust in the future I am sure. So walking around the station like she did she would get stuff on her feet. I am sure the robot vacuum is still going to miss stuff, with all those different alien species running around there.
harshness
There would still be dirt ,dust in the future I am sure.
Where is it going to come from -- specifically?

Why do you think cleaning technology won't improve in the next few hundred years? HEPA filtration was invented as part of the Manhattan Project.
MikeD-C05
Where is it going to come from -- specifically?

Why do you think cleaning technology won't improve in the next few hundred years? HEPA filtration was invented as part of the Manhattan Project.
I don't know, but I still don't like her walking through the station or the academy with out her shoes. It looks unprofessional and very "hippy like" for someone of her status and I personally don't get off to feet, so there is that. ;)
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osu1991
I don't know, but I still don't like her walking through the station or the academy with out her shoes. It looks unprofessional and very "hippy like" for someone of her status and I personally don't get off to feet, so there is that. ;)
Stay out of my office. I rarely have shoes or socks on in the office. My office and business is at home though :clapping
K
I just thought her behavior, including the bare feet thing, was disrespectful to her position.
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harshness
I don't know, but I still don't like her walking through the station or the academy with out her shoes.
That is your right.

I couldn't buy hiding behind the dirty-feet argument.
dfergie
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU!
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
Stumbled across this ... http://www.gaspricewatch.com/USGas_ZipSearch.asp
I found no local prices, although it did show stations at my location...
Added these to this post...
USA National Gas Temperature Map
State By State Gasoline Taxes
Gas Buddy

Ethanol Free Stations

5557 Replies · 460893 views
harshness
I wonder if California is getting into the Winter formula.
harshness
In Oregon, our premium boat gas is about a dollar more than our corn premium. Several stations only offer the non-corn premium grade.
Bobby
Regular$5.899​
Premium$6.299​
Diesel$7.999​
at Costco, Rohnert Park.​
dishstaller
Diesel is all over the place around here. Saw it yesterday from $5.37 to $6.17...not sure what the obsession was with ending in 7
dfergie
$4.09 - $4.29, real gas $4.69...
harshness
I wonder if California is getting into the Winter formula.
It turns out I was justified in my suspicion.

Gavin Newsom somehow authorized the temporary move of the distribution date of the Winter blend to September 28th.
Scott Greczkowski
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne


Get it?


An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....
68546 Replies · 2674231 views
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Bobby
Gonna Send You Back To Georgia (A City Slick) - Timmy Shaw
dishstaller
Detroit Rock City - KISS
long_time_Dish
We Built This City - Jefferson Starship
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sdfntx
Built For Comfort - Omar & the Howlers
harshness
On a Bicycle Built for Two [originally "Daisy Bell"] - Nat King Cole
TWiT Tech Podcast Network
· posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network
0 Replies · 3 views
jamieh1
Last reply · posted in DIRECTV Programming Forum
DIRECTV Stream/Internet added Ch 4105 SportsGrid
267 Replies · 38371 views
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K
Now live:
4101 Yahoo! Sports Network
4121 DP World Tour
4195 F1 Channel
4196 MotoGP Channel
K
Now live:
4275 Law & Crime
4364 Military Makeover Channel
K
Game Show Central is now live on channel 4342
K
Now live:
4101 Yahoo! Sports Network
4121 DP World Tour
4195 F1 Channel
4196 MotoGP Channel
It only took them 41 days to announce it
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BlackHitachi
Supporting Founder
Last reply · posted in Movie Talk
Since the Reds have there thread we should too!

Last watched Nine inch Nails
Next 3:10 to Yuma
5391 Replies · 510663 views
osu1991

View: https://youtu.be/9j3vxhzM8MY?is=Rs1cY1FQAiRWi87i


Come September (1961)
Rock Hudson and Gina Lollobrigida with Sandra Dee and Bobby Darin
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Y
1791758462355.webp


Simple, charming. Entire premise is quite silly but Cary Grant carries it across the line in good fashion.
T
Last: The Social Reckoning. Spoiler alert, they make Zuck look like a...
Foxbat
Since it was already "paid" for, I spent the two hours of my time watching the John Cena action movie on Apple TV, "Matchbox The Movie" even though the reviews were brutal. It was better than I expected, so I didn't feel like I had wasted an afternoon watching it. But it felt like another "Reacher"/"Neghley"/"Mission: Impossible"/"Fast & Furious" crash and blow stuff up with lots of automatic gunfire mixed in movie featuring covert CIA operatives.

I don't think we'll get a follow-up movie from this. I expect Mattel will have other toy lines to exploit.
"MysteryMan"
Futureworld.webp
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TWiT Tech Podcast Network
· posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network
0 Replies · 7 views
Gary Toma
Staff member Pub Member / Supporter Cutting Edge
Last reply · posted in DIRECTV Technical Resources Forum
The TPN Map Excel Presents all DIRECTV Channels:
​
National (50-States or wide/NAT+PR beams)
Local (Local-Into-Local or narrow/Spot beams)
​
Additional tabs provide:​
OTA the (Over-The-Air) Database
VOD (Video On_Demand) Records
Offline Records
Engr Records
Net Decoder a graphic presentation of all satellites and transponders
​
Domestic Satellites
@99W...... D11, D14
@101W.... D16
@103W.... D12, D15
@110W.... D5
@119W.... D8​

Understanding the TPN Map

Making Sense of the TPN Map Display Conventions
2143 Replies · 934012 views
K
PISTONS and THUNDER are finally testing on the stream server. PISTONS is showing the Ion/Scripps Sports promo loop filler that their NHL and WNBA feeds have, THUNDER has a "You are watching Thunder+" slate

The Clippers still haven't officially announced their TV plans beyond 10 simulcasts on KTLA, but the NBA's FAQ for ClipperVision is now live. The CLIPPERS feed is currently showing a loop of their Hawaii preseason game.

The Heat still haven't announced their West Palm Beach or Fort Myers affiliates. Since WPLG is streaming the games for free via their app, I doubt we'll be seeing the return of WPLG on stream.

So far nothing testing for the Bucks, Magic, Hawks or Hornets.
K
The Heat still haven't announced their West Palm Beach or Fort Myers affiliates. Since WPLG is streaming the games for free via their app, I doubt we'll be seeing the return of WPLG on stream.
West Palm Beach is getting it on WTCN-CD/43 MNT. Still nothing for Fort Myers


Also, the Thunder's deal for KSBI/52 OKC and KQCW/19 Tulsa will be via a special cable and DIRECTV only feed of those stations. OTA viewers and Dish customers will be limited to 10 games.
dtv757
Thanks for the updates on CW norfolk
Hopefully comes to sat soon!!
dtv757
Not seeing 44 (WVBT-DT/44 CW Norfolk ) on my D* app for firestick
K
It's only available for streaming customers, they still haven't added that batch of CW stations to satellite.

Even if it was, satellite customers still can't stream their CW affiliates via the app, just the Big 4, select PBS stations and some independents (mainly the ones that have full season NHL/NBA rights)
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K
WCWW/25 CW South Bend and WBKP/5 CW Marquette are now testing on the stream server. These are both already available on satellite.

Now live in the satellite guide:
663-2 PISTONS
675 THUNDER
693 CLIPPERS
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Bobby
Supporting Founder Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in DISH Network Support Forum
This is a thread that will keep you apprised of 4K events that will be showing on Dish channel 540. Keep looking here for information.

As of today, 9-27-17, there are no scheduled events posted for the next 2 weeks. That is subject to change on a daily basis.
763 Replies · 167394 views
Bobby
CFB, Notre Dame at BYU, Saturday 10-27, 4:30PM PDT, Channel 148-03.
Bobby
NASCAR, Freeway Insurance 500, Sunday 10-18, 12PM PDT, Channel 148-04.
Bobby
CFB, Ohio State at Indiana, Saturday 10-17, 9AM PDT, Channel 148-01.
CFB, Arizona State at Texas Tech, Saturday 10-17, 12:30PM PDT, Channel 148-01.
Bobby
CFB, Ole Miss at Texas, Saturday 10-24, 4:30PM PDT, Channel 148-03.
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Bobby
CFB, Indiana at Michigan, Saturday 10-24, 9AM PDT, Channel 148-01.
CFB, BYU at UCF, Saturday 10-24, 12:30PM PDT, Channel 148-01.