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Scott Greczkowski

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge

Last reply Aug 10, 2009 · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

Tivo Statement on Echostar Lawsuit

TiVo Statement on Developments in Lawsuit Against EchoStar

TiVo Statement on Developments in Lawsuit Against EchoStar

ALVISO, Calif., Aug. 4 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- TiVo Inc. (Nasdaq: TIVO), the creator of and a leader in television services and advertising solutions for digital video recorders (DVRs), indicated today that on August 3, 2009, the United States Patent and Trademark Office (PTO) issued an Office action with respect to Claims 31 and 61of TiVo's Multimedia Timewarping System patent, U.S. patent number 6,233,389 (the "Barton Patent"), preliminarily rejecting the patent claims. TiVo offered the following comment on the PTO preliminary finding:

"The Office action is a preliminary finding, entered in the normal course before TiVo has had any opportunity to present its views. TiVo believes that the PTO's preliminary finding will not affect EchoStar's appeal of the June 2009 ruling by the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Texas finding EchoStar to be in contempt of court." "This is an initial step in the lengthy process known as 'reexamination,' and it is not unusual for the PTO to provide a preliminary finding of invalidity and to then later find that the claims are valid after hearing an explanation from the patent owner. Indeed, this is precisely what happened with the first reexamination of the Barton Patent that EchoStar filed in 2005. Among other things, the next step in the reexamination process provides TiVo, for the first time, the opportunity to discuss and distinguish the references presented by EchoStar, and to present new claims."

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daverp

Aug 5, 2009

At most this ruling gives a little negotiating power to Dish to settle the lawsuit and reach a licensing agreement. First USPTO did not invalidate the patent. They issued a preliminary ruling that Dish's workaround doesn't infringe on those patents. It has nothing to do with the validity of the original patents. Second it is easy and common to get a preliminary ruling in your favor as the preliminary process is one sided, just like a grand jury. All Dish had to do is state their case how they see it and USPTO rules based on that. The next step in the process is the USPTO to review Tivo's response and then make a final ruling. That process can take over a year. Once that's completed both side can still appeal that ruling, which could take years. Also after hearing both sides of the argument the judge in the contempt case ruled for Tivo. Nothing today indicated after hearing both sides of the story the USPTO would rule any different.

Basically today's ruling has little effect on anything.

jacmyoung

Aug 5, 2009

daverp said:
At most this ruling gives a little negotiating power to Dish to settle the lawsuit and reach a licensing agreement.

Don't hold your breath that Charlie will settle with TiVo.

First USPTO did not invalidate the patent. They issued a preliminary ruling that Dish's workaround doesn't infringe on those patents.

The PTO's initial action has nothing to do with the E* workaround, the PTO does not get involved with the lawsuit and decide if the workaround is successful or not. The courts will do such work.

But if your above statement is true, you have just refuted your own comment below:

...Basically today's ruling has little effect on anything.

Because if you are correct (which you are not) that the PTO has ruled the E* workaround doesn't infringe, it naturally refutes Judge Folsom's own ruling that the workaround still infringes, if so, how can you conclude this PTO "ruling" has "little effect"?

But this PTO initial action will have a significant impact on the current litigation because E* will used it to the fullest extent, the letter E* sent to Judge Folsom yesterday already indicated that.

TiVo is given 2 months to respond to the PTO initial action, and TiVo is required to provide full copies of their PTO responses to E*.

In this PTO initial action, the PTO interpreted the software claims in the same ways E* interpreted during the contempt proceedings. We are talking the office that granted TiVo this patent that agreed with E* on how to interpret the claims.

Of course TiVo will have the opportunity to respond and maybe even to refute the PTO's interpretations, but the problems are, for one thing the PTO interpretations are based on TiVo's own patent application and prosecution history, in other words based on what TiVo said years ago when they tried to have their patent granted by the PTO.

The other thing is, when TiVo tries to respond, if they want to take the positions in order to succeed in overturning the PTO's claim rejection decision, they will likely have to abandon some of the positions they took during the contempt proceedings when they argued on the contempt issues. Conversely, if TiVo maintains the positions they held during the contempt proceedings, they face a near certainty that their software claims will be rejected.

Two months are within the appeals court's schedule, in fact judging from the current appeal movement, the appeals court will likely not be able to render a ruling in November as they initially planned to. There were just too many new issues kept popping up, such as this new PTO action, and the Judge Folsom's upcoming decision on the sanctions, which he wanted to be incorporated into the appeal.

E* is waiting for TiVo to fire their shots at the PTO, and you can be assured E* will exploit TiVo's PTO filing in front of the appeals court to its full advantage.

IMHO, what awaits TiVo in the next two months will be the most challenging for TiVo.

daverp

Aug 6, 2009

jacmyoung said:
The PTO's initial action has nothing to do with the E* workaround, the PTO does not get involved with the lawsuit and decide if the workaround is successful or not. The courts will do such work.

Wall Street Journal is saying this ruling is specifically the "workaround"

Article - WSJ.com

Thomas22

Aug 7, 2009

daverp said:
Wall Street Journal is saying this ruling is specifically the "workaround"

Article - WSJ.com

The Wall Street Journal is confused. The patent office hasn't made any rulings on the workaround. The ruling only pertains to TiVo's patent. The patent office couldn't care less about Dish's products. That's not their job. It is true however that the same two claims that the patent office has preliminarily ruled as invalid are the same two claims that Dish was found to still infringe with their workaround. That happened in a courtroom. The patent office had nothing to do with it.

Juan

Aug 7, 2009

Thomas22 said:
The Wall Street Journal is confused. The patent office hasn't made any rulings on the workaround. The ruling only pertains to TiVo's patent. The patent office couldn't care less about Dish's products. That's not their job. It is true however that the same two claims that the patent office has preliminarily ruled as invalid are the same two claims that Dish was found to still infringe with their workaround. That happened in a courtroom. The patent office had nothing to do with it.

If the patent is invalid who cares if e* infringed!!!

Thomas22

Aug 7, 2009

juan said:
If the patent is invalid who cares if e* infringed!!!

Long before the TiVo patent ever gets finally declared invalid (if it ever happens), Dish will have paid hundreds of millions of dollars in contempt sanctions and all of their DVRs will have been disabled. Patent validity discussion wasn't even allowed at the contempt hearing because the issue is irrelevant. For the same reason, it isn't relevant at the appeal.

whatchel1

Aug 7, 2009

Not sure this is true

Thomas22 said:
Long before the TiVo patent ever gets finally declared invalid (if it ever happens), Dish will have paid hundreds of millions of dollars in contempt sanctions and all of their DVRs will have been disabled. Patent validity discussion wasn't even allowed at the contempt hearing because the issue is irrelevant. For the same reason, it isn't relevant at the appeal.

If the patent is invalid then it is hard to infringe on something isn't valid. It may be a new case entirely. It may be that the verdict will no longer be valid and it has to be re-adjudicated.

Thomas22

Aug 7, 2009

whatchel1 said:
If the patent is invalid then it is hard to infringe on something isn't valid. It may be a new case entirely. It may be that the verdict will no longer be valid and it has to be re-adjudicated.

If the patent is ever ruled invalid, it will take years. This case will be finished long before then. Infringment cases don't get readjudicated once all appeals have been exhausted. It's called "finality".

Wikipedia

Finality, in law, is the concept that certain disputes must achieve a resolution from which no further appeal may be taken, and from which no collateral proceedings may be permitted to disturb that resolution. For example, in some jurisdictions, a person convicted of a crime may not sue their defense attorney for incompetence or legal malpractice if the civil lawsuit would call into question the finality of the criminal conviction.[1][2] Finality is considered to be important because, absent this there would be no certainty as to the meaning of the law, or the outcome of any legal process.
The importance of finality is the source of the concept of res judicata - that the decisions of one court are settled law, and may not be retried in another case brought in a different court.[3]

Juan

Aug 7, 2009

Thomas22 said:
If the patent is ever ruled invalid, it will take years. This case will be finished long before then. Infringment cases don't get readjudicated once all appeals have been exhausted. It's called "finality".

Wikipedia

i do believe that e* is still in the appeals process

Thomas22

Aug 7, 2009

juan said:
i do believe that e* is still in the appeals process

Yes and it will all be resolved and final long before TiVo's patent is ever ruled invalid.

riffjim4069

Aug 7, 2009

Thomas22 said:
Long before the TiVo patent ever gets finally declared invalid (if it ever happens), Dish will have paid hundreds of millions of dollars in contempt sanctions and all of their DVRs will have been disabled. Patent validity discussion wasn't even allowed at the contempt hearing because the issue is irrelevant. For the same reason, it isn't relevant at the appeal.

I fully agree. The matter at hand is that E* was found to have infringed and subsequently violated a court order and judged to be in contempt. Whether the Tivo patents are invalidated by the USPTO years from now is a non-issue.

jacmyoung

Aug 7, 2009

riffjim4069 said:
I fully agree. The matter at hand is that E* was found to have infringed and subsequently violated a court order and judged to be in contempt. Whether the Tivo patents are invalidated by the USPTO years from now is a non-issue.

The mistake Thomass22 made, or if he was trying to mislead, is that he said E* will disable the DVRs and pay big, before the patent vailidity issue will be resolved.

If the appeals court overturns the district court ruling and order, E* likely will not be ordered to disable the DVRs and pay big, we have not reached that point yet.

Secondly, depending on the timing, judging by the speed of the courts, it is possible the PTO will make a final action before any final damages are concluded, remember E* still has a few venues even after this appeal. In such case, if the PTO's final action is to reject the software claims, E* can motion the court to stay all pending proceedings, until TiVo finishes their appeal of the PTO action and only if TiVo wins on their appeal, then the court may reinstate the pending proceedings, and that can take years.

jacmyoung

Aug 10, 2009

TiVo just filed a letter response to Judge Folsom regarding the PTO initial rejection. TiVo devoted most of the time arguing the PTO initial rejection was normal, and TiVo would reaffirm the claims just like the last time, and the rejection should have no bearing on the current litigation.

Except that the above was not E*'s point, E* themselves admitted the PTO rejection was not final and had no bearing on the current litigation. The point was how the PTO interpreted the software claims term "parses audio and video data". It interpreted the term to mean detecting start codes and building index table with such start codes.

TiVo argued during the contempt proceedings that start codes and index table were "irrelevant" to the software claims, and this was the central assertion that the judge bought from TiVo when he found the new design still infringed.

Yet reading the TiVo letter today, one noticed TiVo had absolutely no courage to again assert that detecting start codes and building index table are "irrelevant" to the software claims. Of course TiVo cannot, because the PTO said the start codes and indexing are central issue and necessary for the software claims to exist.

Now folks can see the relevance of this reexamination and the PTO's initial rejection. E* made it part of Judge Folsom's sanctions decision record, TiVo is now forced to respond, regardless what will be the judge's reaction, since the sanctions issue will be part of the appeal process, so will both E* and TiVo's reactions to the PTO interpretation of the term "parses audio and video data". TiVo said start codes and indexing were irrelevant during the contempt hearing, now after the PTO agreed with E*, TiVo cannot reassert that the start codes and indexing are irrelevant. This much is now part of the record that will be part of the appeal, because Judge Folsom wanted it that way.

One might ask why then didn't TiVo reassert the start codes and indexing are irrelevant in this letter? Because had TiVo done so it would have undermined its effort to validate their software claims in front of the PTO. This is the true value of the E*'s reexamination.

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Ramy

Supporting Founder

Last reply 13 minutes ago · posted in The Sports Section

2026-27 NCAA College Football

Really excited for this season with Kentucky having a new coach and some really exciting recruits. Probably won't last long, but here's hoping this season is great.

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osu1991

Monday at 10:13 AM

View: https://youtu.be/HjQO7IWmC50?is=JrnzyTNTv5MoX24u

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osu1991

Monday at 9:37 PM

View: https://youtu.be/Dj-pH4x_Z1Q?is=CHrZoqR0K3GnQb35

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Yespage

Thursday at 4:57 PM

24 team playoff seems to be real close.

Are we really that far from a 64-team tournament?

The benefit of the 24 team playoff:

All the cartel teams that cartels want in playoff are in playoff
- Independent of record too! Bonus.
MONEY!!!!! for the cartels.
I'm out of ideas.

Cons

Regular season really doesn't matter now other than the rivalry games
- Top cartel teams can lose three games and still make the playoff
Going to start resting players?
- The playoff is going to be *checks notes* several games!
- Resting players could make games dumb.
- Maybe even restrict NIL players from games played.
How much are streaming sub costs going up a month to pay for this?!

AZ.

Thursday at 5:30 PM

Yespage said:
24 team playoff seems to be real close.

Are we really that far from a 64-team tournament?

The benefit of the 24 team playoff:

All the cartel teams that cartels want in playoff are in playoff

Independent of record too! Bonus.

MONEY!!!!! for the cartels.

I'm out of ideas.

Cons

Regular season really doesn't matter now other than the rivalry games

Top cartel teams can lose three games and still make the playoff

Going to start resting players?

The playoff is going to be *checks notes* several games!

Resting players could make games dumb.

Maybe even restrict NIL players from games played.

How much are streaming sub costs going up a month to pay for this?!

One of the pro's I see is in a year with so many undefeated teams they have a good chance of an opening. Few years back you had lower divisions that didnt get a shot. I love collage football and I have no problem with that addition.

We are in what week 5 now? Been two real good ranked games to watch.....Other than that top 25 teams are playing nothing.

Jimbo

Thursday at 5:47 PM

AZ. said:
One of the pro's I see is in a year with so many undefeated teams they have a good chance of an opening. Few years back you had lower divisions that didnt get a shot. I love collage football and I have no problem with that addition.

We are in what week 5 now? Been two real good ranked games to watch.....Other than that top 25 teams are playing nothing.

There are 68 Power 4 teams, so eventually they will get there I wouldn't imagine ...

AZ.

Thursday at 9:12 PM

Jimbo said:
There are 68 Power 4 teams, so eventually they will get there I wouldn't imagine ...

Far from it but you know that....You dont like the larger playoff.....Its ok.....

Jimbo

Thursday at 9:24 PM

AZ. said:
Far from it but you know that....You dont like the larger playoff.....Its ok.....

Oh, I Hate the idea ...

It would be different if it was a game that you could play 2 or games each week, but when you only play 1 game a week, the larger playoff is Not a good thing ...

The season has how many games now, is it 14 ... then you want to play another 5 (with more to come) against Top 12 (eventually 24 teams) ... remember, the 5 games in the playoffs will be the hardest games all year and back to back.

For example, IF Ohio State should win it all this year ... they play 5 teams in the Top 25, plus they would play 5 more to win it all, depending on how the ranking shake out and if Bye weeks are given.

Thats 10 Ranked teams ... in one year ...
I don't see that happening very often ...
Edit, Bama plays 4, Georgia plays 3, But Ole Miss plays 5 (didn't expect to see that)

That said, I don't see the Buckeyes winning it all this year.

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AZ.

Thursday at 9:27 PM

Jimbo said:
Oh, I Hate the idea ...

It would be different if it was a game that you could play 2 or games each week, but when you only play 1 game a week, the larger playoff is Not a good thing ...

The season has how many games now, is it 14 ... then you want to play another 5 (with more to come) against Top 12 (eventually 24 teams) ... remember, the 5 games in the playoffs will be the hardest games all year and back to back.

For example, IF Ohio State should win it all this year ... they play 5 teams in the Top 25, plus they would play 5 more to win it all, depending on how the ranking shake out and if Bye weeks are given.

Thats 10 Ranked teams ... in one year ...
I don't see that happening very often ...

That said, I don't see the Buckeyes winning it all this year.

Yes anyone here knows you 100%....Astros failed no posting...Ohio state loses we hear it.....Its ok....Its called an opinion....I have one so do you.....Problem is?

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Jimbo

Thursday at 10:07 PM

AZ. said:
Yes anyone here knows you 100%....Astros failed no posting...Ohio state loses we hear it.....Its ok....Its called an opinion....I have one so do you.....Problem is?

Seeing theres very little activity in the MLB threads, it wouldn't matter if I posted that the Astros didn't make the Playoffs ...

Theres more NFL info in the Pub section than in the Sports/NFL thread.

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meStevo

Friday at 6:20 PM

Jimbo said:
Theres more NFL info in the Pub section than in the Sports/NFL thread.

Nah, you just don't understand how ignore works, which is why you made your own NFL thread thinking there wasn't one

Howard Simmons

Yesterday at 7:45 PM

osu1991 said:
View: https://youtu.be/Dj-pH4x_Z1Q?is=CHrZoqR0K3GnQb35

Down Goes the SEC

Foxbat

Yesterday at 8:17 PM

osu1991 said:

They ought to have fun with this… :devilish

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osu1991

Yesterday at 10:14 PM

Foxbat said:
They ought to have fun with this…

Was thinking same thing. It should be a good week for sec shorts and roll call

reubenray

13 minutes ago

A lot of upsets yesterday, but my LSU Tigers won.

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brittanygarden

Staff member Pub Member / Supporter

Last reply 17 minutes ago · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

Are you experiencing an issue with your 3rd party remote since the newest Hopper update?

Please post your remote make/model here and any details of your issue. We are looking to collect as many examples as possible. I may reach out to you for your receiver number, but please do not post it here.

If you've already reported this to me, please repost it here so I can track all instances in one thread.

Thanks!
Brittany

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bookworm370

Monday at 9:50 AM

I have a solution that is guaranteed to work.
All Hopper developers are required to turn in their RF Hopper remotes and use only IR remotes.

I guarantee you that the bug will be fixed in two days!
Try it; it will work! They will work 24 hours a day to fix it when the WAF goes into the toilet!

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GRB1959

Monday at 10:31 AM

bookworm370 said:
I have a solution that is guaranteed to work.
All Hopper developers are required to turn in their RF Hopper remotes and use only IR remotes.

I guarantee you that the bug will be fixed in two days!
Try it; it will work! They will work 24 hours a day to fix it when the WAF goes into the toilet!

Excellent suggestion.

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Foxbat

Tuesday at 6:49 PM

I think I have a separate issue with our Hopper 3 when watching/recording a 4K event. I have had many instances of it spontaneously restarting when I "disturbed" it during a 4K event. I learned to not touch the remote after a given point.

But it might be the IR code subroutine and 4K that make it touchy. I'll try it Wednesday night during the NLCS Game 3.

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JeffN9

Tuesday at 7:14 PM

Foxbat said:
I think I have a separate issue with our Hopper 3 when watching/recording a 4K event. I have had many instances of it spontaneously restarting when I "disturbed" it during a 4K event. I learned to not touch the remote after a given point.

But it might be the IR code subroutine and 4K that make it touchy. I'll try it Wednesday night during the NLCS Game 3.

I was having similar issues last night while watching and recording the NLCS game on 148. When I tried resuming the game at one point the screen went blank and I couldn't get my H3 to respond to any remote commands. Eventually the Hopper went to a HD channel but still no remote response. After a while the Hopper went into a re-boot cycle. This happened at least 3 times. I was using an IR universal remote only.

A little frustrating to have the game broken up like that but at least the Brewers won

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bookworm370

Yesterday at 3:13 PM

GRB1959 said:
Excellent suggestion.

Yea, I've only been a CIO for the last 30 years!

Trust me, when something important breaks, they get to own it!

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Astroman3427

Yesterday at 7:20 PM

Loaded H713 software on my Hopper 3 last week. Have not seen any change in the IR/RF remote issues with my Harmony 700.
Has Dish acknowledged this is a problem and are they committed to fixing it?
I'd be happy to roll back to last July.

Reactions: long_time_Dish, GRB1959 and charlesrshell

long_time_Dish

Today at 12:39 AM

Astroman3427 said:
Loaded H713 software on my Hopper 3 last week. Have not seen any change in the IR/RF remote issues with my Harmony 700.
Has Dish acknowledged this is a problem and are they committed to fixing it?
I'd be happy to roll back to last July. <-----|

Absolutely!!!---------------------------------------------|

reubenray

17 minutes ago

Astroman3427 said:
Loaded H713 software on my Hopper 3 last week. Have not seen any change in the IR/RF remote issues with my Harmony 700.
Has Dish acknowledged this is a problem and are they committed to fixing it?
I'd be happy to roll back to last July.

I got 713 a few days ago and nothing has changed concerning the IR/RF remote issues.

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Peter Parker

Supporting Founder Lifetime Supporter

Last reply 18 minutes ago · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

DISH Hopper 3 Software Version 713 Is Out

No idea what improvements might be involved.

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BatStang2000

Yesterday at 1:29 PM

This happened to me. I was outside mowing and my wife came out and said that our nieces and nephews were going to be on the Noon News. She had it on in the bedroom on our Joey3. Since they weren't on yet, I decided to turn it on in the Living Room on our Hopper3. When I selected the channel (through Dish, not OTA) the Joey3 turned itself off. When I went back to the bedroom to turn it back on, the Hopper3 did a reboot. Luckily it all finished before their story came on, but I just found it strange.

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bookworm370

Yesterday at 3:17 PM

Has anyone noticed an FF stutter with 713? I used to be able to hit FF a few times and skip smoothly. After 713 (maybe 712), when I skip forward, there is a definite stutter for as many times as I have pressed FF.

Can anyone check on this and report back? Recorded programs and then press skip forward a few times to see if it's smooth? Normally, it just jumps to the right place after the skips.

Reactions: charlesrshell

reubenray

Yesterday at 6:40 PM

I got the 713 update yesterday.

Reactions: charlesrshell

naptime

Today at 1:05 AM

I'm getting fabulous picture on Ch. 148 4k, but zero audio with H713. This is with a recorded show (Notre Dame game). Anyone else have this? Audio is fine on every other channel.

reubenray

18 minutes ago

bookworm370 said:
Has anyone noticed an FF stutter with 713? I used to be able to hit FF a few times and skip smoothly. After 713 (maybe 712), when I skip forward, there is a definite stutter for as many times as I have pressed FF.

Can anyone check on this and report back? Recorded programs and then press skip forward a few times to see if it's smooth? Normally, it just jumps to the right place after the skips.

My wife mentioned that her remote is acting strange this morning. She hit FF and it went to 15x FF.

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Scott Greczkowski

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge

Last reply Today at 4:41 AM · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Song Name Game Part 3!

Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne

Get it?

An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....

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EatMyVolts

Yesterday at 8:58 PM

No Time -- The Guess Who

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dishstaller

Yesterday at 9:01 PM

The Devil Went Down to Georgia - Charlie Daniels

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long_time_Dish

Today at 12:37 AM

Down On My Knees - Bread

hwkn

Today at 2:34 AM

DOWN ON Me-Jackyl

ClarkGable

Today at 4:41 AM

Down By The Lazy River - The Osmonds

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Ham Radio 2.0

Today at 3:12 AM · posted in Ham Radio 2.0

The Truth About Cheap CB Radios for Off-Grid Travel

Time for another AWESOME video from Ham Radio 2.0!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K5qI_-JKD8

Direct YouTube Link - The Truth About Cheap CB Radios for Off-Grid Travel
Ham Radio 2.0 Website
Ham Radio 2.0 on Facebook

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JohnGalt1234

Last reply Today at 12:02 AM · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

H3 EHD lists upcoming airings instead of recordings on EHD and often won't recognize EHD is connected after reboot

This started a couple months ago. I have 2 H3s on one network, both with 2 EHD identical 3 TB seperately powered so all recordings are accessible by all 4k & J4s (8 of them).

On one H3 (not the main one that controls the MOCA network), after it reboots, it doesn't recognize it has two EHDs plugged into it. Rebooting the EHD by their power source doesn't fix it. Resetting the network doesn't. Software h3 reset doesn't fix it. Rebooting MOCA h3 doesn't fix it but so far, after 3+ cold boots (unplug pwr to H3 with unrecognized EHDs), it finally it figures out they are plugged into it. BUT.... Then when you open a program it only partially shows series and episodes, but instead of showing recordings, it only shows upcoming airings. HELP!!!!

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Almighty1

Yesterday at 6:55 PM

Thanks JohnGalt1234 - That's interesting. I wonder are the Boot Strap versions different between a Hopper 3 only and a Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus setup as I have the later. I guess when charlesrshell is able to since he has both setups, he can do the test. Unless the bootstrap version is tied to when the specific Hopper 3 is manufactured, in my case, mines is from February 2016 when it was installed.

At least Google Search AI is saying the bootstrap version will never change and unique to each Hopper 3.

This is probably why different people seem to either have the issue or they don't because the bootstrap code could also be tied to the hardware revision and
components other than the internal HD.

Reactions: charlesrshell

JohnGalt1234

Yesterday at 6:55 PM

Sorry about dupe images... having a heck of a time trying to post an image of other H3 that my gf text to me.

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JohnGalt1234

Yesterday at 6:56 PM

JohnGalt1234 said:
Sorry about dupe images... having a heck of a time trying to post an image of other H3 that my gf text to me.

Reactions: charlesrshell

JohnGalt1234

Yesterday at 7:00 PM

Almighty1 said:
Thanks JohnGalt1234 - That's interesting. I wonder are the Boot Strap versions different between a Hopper 3 only and a Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus setup as I have the later. I guess when charlesrshell is able to since he has both setups, he can do the test. Unless the bootstrap version is tied to when the specific Hopper 3 is manufactured, in my case, mines is from February 2016 when it was installed.

At least Google Search AI is saying the bootstrap version will never change and unique to each Hopper 3.

View attachment 194853

This is probably why different people seem to either have the issue or they don't because the bootstrap code could also be tied to the hardware revision and
components other than the internal HD.

The image I just sent for master H3 is on hopper+., casino is not but both Vs and bootstraps are the same.

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Almighty1

Yesterday at 7:18 PM

JohnGalt1234 - So you basically have 2 Hopper 3's. The CasinoH3 is the one that is Hopper 3 only while Master Bedroom is a Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus setup.
Master Bedroom uses Android TV (ATV) software so the DISH part is actually a app and will behave differently as you can probably tell the Guide's are different on the Master Bedroom which will resemble the same guide used on other ATV devices such as the Joey 4 and Wireless Joey 4. If I am correct, the CasinoH3 is the one with the problem since you did say the one dated 09/05/2026 is the naughty one while 08/15/2026 named Master Bedroom is the nice one. Usually I would expect the CasinoH3 to be the one without the problem because it's Hopper 3 only and Master Bedroom would be the one with problems because it has the Hopper Plus involved. That is why they behave differently because CasinoH3 is running the native Hopper 3 software while Master Bedroom is running the Android TV software and also it runs a app called DISH known as package com.dish.atv.launcher, the version for mines is P15403 2026100917 so it's probably the same version as the Hopper Plus software version with the date of October 9, 2026, not sure what the 17 means except maybe revision 17?

This explains it better than I can. Sorry, had to take all the ads out.

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JohnGalt1234

Yesterday at 9:02 PM

Almighty1 said:
JohnGalt1234 - So you basically have 2 Hopper 3's. The CasinoH3 is the one that is Hopper 3 only while Master Bedroom is a Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus setup.
Master Bedroom uses Android TV (ATV) software so the DISH part is actually a app and will behave differently as you can probably tell the Guide's are different on the Master Bedroom which will resemble the same guide used on other ATV devices such as the Joey 4 and Wireless Joey 4. If I am correct, the CasinoH3 is the one with the problem since you did say the one dated 09/05/2026 is the naughty one while 08/15/2026 named Master Bedroom is the nice one. Usually I would expect the CasinoH3 to be the one without the problem because it's Hopper 3 only and Master Bedroom would be the one with problems because it has the Hopper Plus involved. That is why they behave differently because CasinoH3 is running the native Hopper 3 software while Master Bedroom is running the Android TV software and also it runs a app called DISH known as package com.dish.atv.launcher, the version for mines is P15403 2026100917 so it's probably the same version as the Hopper Plus software version with the date of October 9, 2026, not sure what the 17 means except maybe revision 17?

This explains it better than I can. Sorry, had to take all the ads out.

View attachment 194857

As I understand it, the android is just the display signal from the hopper+. I can disconnect the H+ and plug the hdmi directly into the master hopper3.

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Almighty1

Today at 12:02 AM

JohnGalt1234 said:
As I understand it, the android is just the display signal from the hopper+. I can disconnect the H+ and plug the hdmi directly into the master hopper3.

It is not just a display signal as explained above. When you have the Hopper+ connected, it uses Android TV for pretty much everything except for the satellite signal which is why it uses the DISH app for the standard Hopper 3 functions. But that should not matter because in your case, CasinoH3 is the Hopper 3 with the EHD which is what you call the naughty one based on the dates you mentioned and Master Bedroom which has the Hopper Plus connected to the Hopper 3 that does not have the problem. So one way to test the theory is disconnect the Hopper Plus from that Hopper 3 and then use the EHD's connected to CasinoH3 currently to see if the same issue exists. That way you will know if the problem is there without a Hopper Plus connected or if CasinoH3 is just a bad hopper to begin with.

Normally when you disconnect the Hopper Plus, it will be 30 minutes or more before you can use the Hopper 3 again.

What you want to do is:
hold the POWER button in, not the red reset button, for about 45 seconds or so while disconnecting the power to the Plus and moving the HDMI cable and it will reboot to the normal Hopper only immediately.

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meStevo

Lifetime Supporter

Last reply Yesterday at 9:36 PM · posted in The Chit Chat Club

AI thread

A continuation of a thread from the pub, just general discussion of AI.

Brief 60 minute clip about next gem autonomous fighters - not remote controlled, but rather collaborating with controllers and aircraft in the theater.

View: https://youtu.be/DRm0mbp_n1k

We've literally got a movie already about this

View: https://youtu.be/a2PW7a9ViDc

62 Replies · 1067 views

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meStevo

Oct 9, 2026

Agreed, it mostly regurgitates known solutions. That's the point. Nobody needs an innovative fix for a driver error or a creative way to format a report. Let it handle the solved problems so people can spend their time on the ones that aren't.

harshness

Oct 9, 2026

meStevo said:
Agreed, it mostly regurgitates known solutions. That's the point.

That's the point at which innovation ends, and there's no longer any point to software engineering other than swatting bugs that result from misapplication.

meStevo

Oct 9, 2026

harshness said:
That's the point at which innovation ends, and there's no longer any point to software engineering other than swatting bugs that result from misapplication.

Addressed by what you didn't quote. This cycle is as old as computing: compilers, libraries, frameworks each automated the tedious part, and the human work moved up a level. Innovation didn't end; it shifted. And people still make new compilers, libraries or frameworks.

Nobody's forced to hand anything off. Anyone who wants to keep doing it by hand still can, and people who couldn't do it at all now can.

harshness

Oct 9, 2026

meStevo said:
... and people who couldn't do it at all now can.

Misapplication isn't something that the casual coder can identify. They can only discover, the hard way, that it doesn't work at some point.

meStevo

Oct 9, 2026

harshness said:
Misapplication isn't something that the casual coder can identify. They can only discover, the hard way, that it doesn't work at some point.

You're not wrong, but that's part of learning. Whether from others or our own mistakes, we've all learned that lesson one way or another.

harshness

Oct 9, 2026

meStevo said:
Whether from others or our own mistakes, we've all learned that lesson one way or another.

I'm not sure that the school of hard knocks is the quickest or surest education to find your way.

There are many examples in the headlines of people getting burned multiple times and not wavering in their pursuit of stupidity.

meStevo

Oct 9, 2026

harshness said:
I'm not sure that the school of hard knocks is the quickest or surest education to find your way.

Good thing not everyone will have to learn the hard way then. The same tools can explain why something broke.

harshness said:
There are many examples in the headlines of people getting burned multiple times and not wavering in their pursuit of stupidity.

This is true of literally anything, though.

Happy to agree to disagree, but I'm already enjoying the dividends personally and helping others at work and at home do the same.

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harshness

Oct 9, 2026

meStevo said:
This is true of literally anything, though.

Do you think that means we ought to be supporting it as the long-term solution?

Foxbat

Monday at 11:01 PM

Foxbat

Yesterday at 9:36 PM

Oops.

AI Agent Blamed for Deleting Entire Upcoming Season of TV Show

An AI agent reportedly deleted the entire final cut of the upcoming season of a Swedish reality competition show.

futurism.com

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dishstaller

Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter

Last reply Yesterday at 9:17 PM · posted in The Chit Chat Club

The Carbonaro Effect

I was watching some of this guy's stuff and realized some of you may not be familiar. Basically his show is Candid Camera meets a magician. This is a comp of a few of his exploits. I first learned of him when I was out at a meeting in Denver about 10yrs ago. The men I was sitting at the table with started talking about this show and said it was one of the funniest things they had seen. When I got home I started watching it....yes, it is funny.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIU09F8jdwc

2 Replies · 66 views

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dishstaller

Oct 11, 2026

This one however is my all time favorite. Look at the way this guy holds the drill when he starts freaking out.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xt5DpFBtZwk&pp=ygUXY2FyYm9uYXJvIGVmZmVjdCByb21sZXk%3D

dishstaller

Yesterday at 9:17 PM

This is a Best Of compilation

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-aR6JoVehU

Gary Toma

Staff member Pub Member / Supporter Cutting Edge

Last reply Yesterday at 8:44 PM · posted in DIRECTV Technical Resources Forum

DIRECTV Transponder Map ~ Data 10/14/2026

The TPN Map Excel Presents all DIRECTV Channels:

National (50-States or wide/NAT+PR beams)
Local (Local-Into-Local or narrow/Spot beams)

Additional tabs provide:

OTA the (Over-The-Air) Database
VOD (Video On_Demand) Records
Offline Records
Engr Records
Net Decoder a graphic presentation of all satellites and transponders

Domestic Satellites
@99W...... D11, D14
@101W.... D16
@103W.... D12, D15
@110W.... D5
@119W.... D8

Understanding the TPN Map

Making Sense of the TPN Map Display Conventions

DIRECTV_TPN_Map_261014.xlsx 1,874 KB

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KyL416

Sep 18, 2026

Now testing on the stream server:
WJBF-D2 CW Augusta GA
KSVI-D2 CW Billings MT
WETM-D2 CW Elmira NY
WJET-D2 CW Erie PA
KLFY-D2 CW Lafayette LA
KARD-D2 CW Monroe LA
WVBT-D2 CW Norfolk VA
WTWO-D2 CW Terre Haute IN
WFXV-D2 CW Utica NY
KFDX-D3 CW Wichita Falls TX

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KyL416

Oct 8, 2026

PISTONS and THUNDER are finally testing on the stream server. PISTONS is showing the Ion/Scripps Sports promo loop filler that their NHL and WNBA feeds have, THUNDER has a "You are watching Thunder+" slate

The Clippers still haven't officially announced their TV plans beyond 10 simulcasts on KTLA, but the NBA's FAQ for ClipperVision is now live. The CLIPPERS feed is currently showing a loop of their Hawaii preseason game.

The Heat still haven't announced their West Palm Beach or Fort Myers affiliates. Since WPLG is streaming the games for free via their app, I doubt we'll be seeing the return of WPLG on stream.

So far nothing testing for the Bucks, Magic, Hawks or Hornets.

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KyL416

Thursday at 6:36 PM

KyL416 said:
WETM-D2 CW Elmira NY
WJET-D2 CW Erie PA
KLFY-D2 CW Lafayette LA
KARD-D2 CW Monroe LA
WVBT-D2 CW Norfolk VA
WTWO-D2 CW Terre Haute IN
WFXV-D2 CW Utica NY
KFDX-D3 CW Wichita Falls TX

These are now live on stream and weren't testing on satellite as of yesterday:
WETM-DT/19 CW Elmira
WJET-DT/25 CW Erie
KLFY-DT/11 CW Lafayette LA
KARD-DT/15 CW Monroe
WVBT-DT/44 CW Norfolk
WTWO-DT/3 CW Terre Haute
WFXV-DT/34 CW Utica
KFDX-DT/4 CW Wichita Falls

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KyL416

Thursday at 7:30 PM

KyL416 said:
The Heat still haven't announced their West Palm Beach or Fort Myers affiliates. Since WPLG is streaming the games for free via their app, I doubt we'll be seeing the return of WPLG on stream.

West Palm Beach is getting it on WTCN-CD/43 MNT. Still nothing for Fort Myers

Also, the Thunder's deal for KSBI/52 OKC and KQCW/19 Tulsa will be via a special cable and DIRECTV only feed of those stations. OTA viewers and Dish customers will be limited to 10 games.

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dtv757

Friday at 9:12 AM

Thanks for the updates on CW norfolk
Hopefully comes to sat soon!!

dtv757

Yesterday at 8:34 PM

Not seeing 44 (WVBT-DT/44 CW Norfolk ) on my D* app for firestick

KyL416

Yesterday at 8:44 PM

It's only available for streaming customers, they still haven't added that batch of CW stations to satellite.

Even if it was, satellite customers still can't stream their CW affiliates via the app, just the Big 4, select PBS stations and some independents (mainly the ones that have full season NHL/NBA rights)

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TheRatPatrol

Last reply Yesterday at 8:13 PM · posted in TV Shows

NCIS

Anyone else watch this show? Any guesses as to what was in the box Gibbs gave to Abby that was on her desk? It look liked it was glowing.

I also heard that someone was leaving the show at the end of this season. Any guesses as to who thats going to be?

2135 Replies · 214842 views

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Jimbo

Monday at 11:41 PM

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/BIdMzUBHvjw?feature=share

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Jimbo

Tuesday at 6:25 PM

Jimbo said:
View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/BIdMzUBHvjw?feature=share

Howard ...
You don't like Tony, or Tony as the Director (he's only been there for 30 seconds now) or you don't like NCIS ?

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Howard Simmons

Thursday at 1:19 PM

Jimbo said:
Howard ...
You don't like Tony, or Tony as the Director (he's only been there for 30 seconds now) or you don't like NCIS ?

Tony as the director.

Jimbo

Thursday at 2:13 PM

Howard Simmons said:
Tony as the director.

Would you rather have LaRoche ???

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Howard Simmons

Friday at 11:30 AM

Jimbo said:
Would you rather have LaRoche ???

No. Bring in someone new.

Tony is not serious enough for me. Parker is too close to the team and Tim is too young to take over IMO.

Jimbo

Friday at 12:50 PM

Howard Simmons said:
No. Bring in someone new. Tony is not serious enough for me. Parker is too close to the team and Tim is too young to take over IMO.

I don't think Tim and Tony are that far apart in Age ...

Remember what Tony said to Tim when they first got back together ...
Tony said: I am the New Tony, Tim .... (something to that effect)

Tony has changed, he's been running his Security Business ... I'm sure he has grown up.

Give it time ... your judging the New Tony from the old Tony.

It sounds like Tim won't be around the Team much longer either.

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KAB

Yesterday at 6:18 AM

I wonder it they will show the teased meeting (in Origins) with Tony and Gibbs.

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Jimbo

Yesterday at 7:40 AM

KAB said:
I wonder it they will show the teased meeting (in Origins) with Tony and Gibbs.

I'm curious how they are going to implement Tony into Origins (If they do) ...
Tony was introduced to Gibbs and the team, on NCIS, which makes it the Mothership side of things, he worked in Baltimore prior to NCIS, NO mention when they met that anyone had known one another ...

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Jimbo

Yesterday at 8:13 PM

KAB said:
I wonder it they will show the teased meeting (in Origins) with Tony and Gibbs.

Teased Meeting ?

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