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So let me get this straight.....THESE players, though good ball players, but NO WHERE NEAR deserving of HOF votes, get votes that much more deserving do not get??!!

Robin Ventura 7 - 1.3%
Ellis Burks 2 - 0.4%
Eric Karros 2 - 0.4%
Kevin Appier 1 - 0.2%
Pat Hentgen 1 - 0.2%
David Segui 1 - 0.2

I mean seriously???!!! THIS is why reporters/writers DO NOT deserve to vote and they(possible HOF) should get voted in by their peers(former players and coaches).

So Sandra, in your opinion, for a pitcher had to be dominant to make the HOF?

salsadancer7 said:

So Sandra, in your opinion, for a pitcher had to be dominant to make the HOF?

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It's not quite that simple, for pitchers or hitters. While I do recognize there are certain benchmarks that get people into the hall of fame regardless of what else happened in their careers, to pass my taste test I would like a player to at least be one of the best players at their position for a decent period of time. Not necessarily dominant, although that would certainly help.

That's why Pat Hentgen does not pass my test...and neither does Bert Blyleven. Neither will Mike Mussina or Andy Pettitte, unless Pettitte makes it to a benchmark that gets him in. I am an equal opportunity judge.

Blyleven making it into two all star games in a very long career says he was very rarely one of the top pitchers in the sport.

Of course, that's just my opinion. If Blyleven ever gets in life will go on for me...

But I believe the hall should be reserved for the best of the best.


Sandra

SandraC said:

It's not quite that simple, for pitchers or hitters. While I do recognize there are certain benchmarks that get people into the hall of fame regardless of what else happened in their careers, to pass my taste test I would like a player to at least be one of the best players at their position for a decent period of time. Not necessarily dominant, although that would certainly help.

That's why Pat Hentgen does not pass my test...and neither does Bert Blyleven. Neither will Mike Mussina or Andy Pettitte, unless Pettitte makes it to a benchmark that gets him in. I am an equal opportunity judge.

Blyleven making it into two all star games in a very long career says he was very rarely one of the top pitchers in the sport.

Of course, that's just my opinion. If Blyleven ever gets in life will go on for me...

But I believe the hall should be reserved for the best of the best.


Sandra

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Just because he wasn't an All-Star? Nolan Ryan never won a Cy Young, yes I know he had a bunch of strikeouts, no-hitters, and won 300 games, but to pick one thing from someone's career and say that is why they aren't a HOF'er is not fair to that player to me. Just my opinion on the subject.

ramy said:

Just because he wasn't an All-Star? Nolan Ryan never won a Cy Young, yes I know he had a bunch of strikeouts, no-hitters, and won 300 games, but to pick one thing from someone's career and say that is why they aren't a HOF'er is not fair to that player to me. Just my opinion on the subject.

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Nolan Ryan is an accumulator with a bunch of no-hitters!

As I said, if people think Blyleven should get in, or if he does get in, I understand. But in my opinion he was not one of the best pitchers of his time. I will admit I am a very harsh grader when it comes to the hall of fame, others are much more lenient.


Sandra

SandraC said:

Nolan Ryan is an accumulator with a bunch of no-hitters!

As I said, if people think Blyleven should get in, or if he does get in, I understand. But in my opinion he was not one of the best pitchers of his time. I will admit I am a very harsh grader when it comes to the hall of fame, others are much more lenient.


Sandra

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What do you think of Jack Morris , in HIS time ?

Do you think he should be in ?

Jimbo said:

What do you think of Jack Morris , in HIS time ?

Do you think he should be in ?

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Morris was one of the most dominant pitchers of the 80's.

Alan Trammell should be in the Hall of Fame.

Paul Wozniak said:

Morris was one of the most dominant pitchers of the 80's.

Alan Trammell should be in the Hall of Fame.

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I AGREE with both :up

I was curious what Sandra had to say seeing she appears against players being able to get in.

salsadancer7 said:

So let me get this straight.....THESE players, though good ball players, but NO WHERE NEAR deserving of HOF votes, get votes that much more deserving do not get??!!

Robin Ventura 7 - 1.3%
Ellis Burks 2 - 0.4%
Eric Karros 2 - 0.4%
Kevin Appier 1 - 0.2%
Pat Hentgen 1 - 0.2%
David Segui 1 - 0.2

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Now and then, a local sportswriter casts a vote for a local player he likes as a show of appreciation. These votes do not cost any other player anything. If I were voting when Tim Wakefield becomes eligible, I'd probably cast a vote for him for the same reason. Robin Ventura was once selected, "College Player of the Decade". I find it hard to imagine anyone concocting a more meaningless award.

I mean seriously???!!! THIS is why reporters/writers DO NOT deserve to vote and they(possible HOF) should get voted in by their peers(former players and coaches).

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The peers, who vote for old timers, have often been criticized for not voting for much of anybody, on the theory that each addition to the membership dilutes the value of their own inclusion.

Back in 1982, Bill James compared the baseball writers MVP selections with some Player of the Year selections made by the players in the years when they were not the same person, and concluded that the players were more likely to vote for the veteran player with the gaudiest offensive numbers, regardless of his fielding, base running, leadership or any other attributes.

The inclusion of Don Drysdale guarantees that there will always be dozens of retired pitchers who have,"Hall of Fame numbers". For that matter, Jim Rice is only in because he has Hall of Fame numbers. He had borderline offensive numbers, but absolutely sucked as a baserunner, fielder, clutch hitter and teammate. He got big seasonal offensive totals by mopping up on the mediocre pitchers he faced. He used to hit zilch against the best pitchers. I'd take a 40 year old Carl Yastrzemski over a 30 year old Jim Rice against a top flight pitcher. Yaz could still hit the same .260 against the hardest throwers that he hit against the rest.

Jimbo said:

I AGREE with both :up

I was curious what Sandra had to say seeing she appears against players being able to get in.

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I'm against players being able to get in? I said I think Roberto Alomar should get in, and I think he's a jerk. As for Jack Morris...SMEEK!!! You really need to read the whole thread, hun.

I can definitely understand him getting in before Blyleven and Hentgen.


Sandra