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Ironsides

Last reply Mar 17, 2010 · posted in Free To Air (FTA) Discussion

Analog to Digital

I have a question or maybe a couple. I have a C-Band dish, Uniden Supra, ok I have my Dreambox 7020 connected directly to the C-Band Lnb as instructed in the manual.

The Supra is connected to the Loop out on the Dreambox and this is fine I should think.

OK The Dreambox manual suggests when I want to watch Analog I need to place the Dreambox in deep standby.

I used the Comp out on both receivers so I can watch either one on the tv or both using PIP.

The thing is if The Uniden is off I can't see any video from C-Band on the Digital side. Another words they both have to be on. Now I understand the LNB needs power but what is confusing about it is this. If I turn off both receivers and leave them off for a few minutes. I can turn on the Dreambox and watch tv on the digital channels. However I notice glitches from time to time. Now I can watch TV on my KU dish and don't have any issue at all with glitches so this tells me the power for the lnb is present from Dreambox.

It boggles my mind about turning them both on and off...You would just have to see it...

I can leave them both on and it seems nothing strange is going on or does it seem to have any issues to either receiver even when switching the power off and on. I can see the digital stuff for a couple of minutes and then it goes black when I turn off the Uniden but I can change to a different channel say like going from a VERT to a HORZ and that channel will be there...holy cow that is confusing...

Right now I just leave them both on and so far no issues..but I'd like to understand what in hell is going on..with that....

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Ironsides

Mar 16, 2010

Thank you

Thank you BJ for your input! Excellent advice! And any others that has suggested ideas...

Ok powering the Uniden, makes no differences if it's unplugged or not as far as the other receiver goes and what takes place.

Addressing the DC block that is the reason for my posting as I do not wish to take any chances.

The loop out has a DC block on it but honestly I can't see any differences either way. I did try it without it but I replaced it and I do have a DC block on the loop out of my Dreambox. Also I have surge protectors on both boxes...

As you suggested I changed the settings in the Menu to 18 volts for both H/V settings. I could see no differences...Don't really like that because seems it just strains the power supply more but you have to do what you have too..

Ok With an older C-Band system as you already know they depended on the servo to switch polarity. My Pansats can use the same connections and work with wiring that is currently in place with my C-Band. Unless I am totally confused as to how that worked. At any rate The Dreambox does not have any way to change the polarity other than sending a signal down the coax which I was refering to as Diseqc. Sorry for the Confusion on that. Thanks for clearing that up for me...

The only thing I have not tried is removing the VCII board which is my next step and yes no point in leaving that in any longer. All it is doing is robbing power from the power supply anyway.

Right now due to my lack of splitters and lack of understanding I felt my safest bet was to just totally unhook the Uniden from the Dreambox or others and just use it to move the dish and switch the h/v and not worry about getting any video from it.

Even using the DC blocks and trying to be as safe as possible I just did not want to take any chances on ruining either the Uniden or Dreambox and of course the LNB could be damaged....
So untill I get the proper splitters and slaving parts I will just leave it totally unhooked from the LNB and loop out...

B.J.

Mar 16, 2010

Ironsides said:
...
Ok With an older C-Band system as you already know they depended on the servo to switch polarity. My Pansats can use the same connections and work with wiring that is currently in place with my C-Band. Unless I am totally confused as to how that worked. At any rate The Dreambox does not have any way to change the polarity other than sending a signal down the coax which I was refering to as Diseqc. Sorry for the Confusion on that. Thanks for clearing that up for me...

DiseqC is a 22khz signal that's modulated with data to control switches and tell motors where to go. Polarity on the FTA receivers is not determined by a signal on the coax, it determined by the lnbf voltage. For H or L, it sends 18V to the lnbf, and the lnbf knows to set polarity to H/L . For V/R 13V is used. Regular C/Ku LNBs are designed to work at ~18V, +/- a few volts. Most will work down at 13V, but some don't, and the ones that do work may not work quite as well.

Ironsides said:
Right now due to my lack of splitters and lack of understanding I felt my safest bet was to just totally unhook the Uniden from the Dreambox or others and just use it to move the dish and switch the h/v and not worry about getting any video from it.

There isn't much analog left, but there is a bit. However I do use it to find and peak a few sats. However I had the same idea a while ago, ie to just disconnect the analog, and when I need it, just hook it up to the passthru of one of the FTA receivers. However after doing that, my digital reception actually got worse for some reason. Only thing I can figure is that the power supplys on my analog receivers are better than the power supplies on the digital receivers. The power supplies on the old analog receivers are big old conventional power supplies with big transformers and capacitors, but the supplies on the FTA receivers are little switching power supplies, and I think they tend to emit higher freq noise than is likely from the low line freq noise you might get on a conventional power supply. But whatever the reason, on weak transponders, I've had better luck slaving my digital receiver off the analog than hooking the LNB up directly to the digital receiver. Isn't logical, but that's what I've found.

Ironsides said:
Even using the DC blocks and trying to be as safe as possible I just did not want to take any chances on ruining either the Uniden or Dreambox and of course the LNB could be damaged.....

Pretty hard to hurt the LNB. The danger is that the 2 power supplies would be fighting each other.

Ironsides

Mar 16, 2010

Thanks again

Thanks again BJ nice read and good advice.

Just for kicks I tried your setup, going for the Analog as the Master and the digital as the slave. In this case, I didn't have good luck, had to retune and reposition, even reskew for some reasons. But it did work after tuning.

I went back to my original setup and just left the loop out unconnected.

This has been very interesting and holy cow how opinions differ.

I did some research and downloaded several manuals for different digital and analog receivers. Every single one of them that shows or discribes a loop out... suggest the following when using C-Band and most state a 4DTV box or analog box.

FTA Digital Box directly to the C-Band LNB
Analog box directly to the loopout of course they do show you which ports to use.

None of these manuals suggests a use of DC Blocks, Surge Protectors OR turning off either receiver to protect anything.

That is what I find to be questionable as to why they wouldn't warn you of power related problems or any problems when using the Loop out. Or suggest turning off a box or using DC blocks and so on...Totally confuses me here...

Ok LNBF question???
Here I do understand the V/H is changed by voltage (example 14 volts for vertical and 18 volts for the horzontal)

Ok here is my question if the FTA box switches the V/H and the voltages change. The coax is its only connection so the voltage would have to travel the feedline (coax) to the LNBF in order for the changes to take place is that not correct? In my opinion it would have to be correct...

In The case of my C-Band LNB the coax did not make any changes to the polarity. The servo which is controlled by wiring that returns back to the receiver is how the polarity is changed. That wiring is totally different than coax. I think it's 2 wires only and then I have 3 more wires that goes to the dish mover.

In order for Pansat to change the polarity you have to connect those 2 wires to it when connecting to my C-Band LNB. Otherwise it sits on the same polarity and makes no changes no matter how you tell it in the menu.
Those wires have to connect to the Pansat!

In the case of Dreambox it has no connection for Polarity Servo it relays on the coax and voltages to the LNB from DB to change the polarity. Dream must not have considered it's use with older C-Band LNBs here in the States. Wow what a mistake that is with all the old C-Band stuff laying around that is servo controlled. My system is about 18 to 20 years old now but honestly has 100 times better Video than Any Digital FTA box I have ever seen even the HD versions have a hard time beating out that Analog C-Band video.

Pansat diff has a leg up on them in this case for using Older Equipment...

Lak7

Mar 16, 2010

The servo which is controlled by wiring that returns back to the receiver is how the polarity is changed.

I don't know about a Uniden Receiver, but a 4DTV receiver has an LNBF option, so it can control a Voltage Controlled LNBF, making the Servo Wires unnecessary.

Lak7

Mar 16, 2010

An after thought to your unsuccessful attempt today....
When setting up an LNBF using DVB and 4DTV receivers, the 4DTV receiver must be told to virtually "Rotate 90" the LNBF's polarity, it will then match a DVB polarity.
In other words, the 4DTV Horizontal is Vertical in DVB units. I don't know why, but I know it works that way.

Ironsides

Mar 17, 2010

Thanks Lak

Setting up an LNBf wouldn't be a problem for the FTA receivers I have; sadly though an older C-Band lnb has to use a servo. I wish I could upgrade that without a lot of change or expense to my C-Band. But I am afraid it would require more than just an LNB.

I have seen some of those cheap replacement Feedhorns that supposedly do both KU and C-Band but I was a bit afraid of them...

I have a nice 10 foot dish that is mesh but I was told when I purchased it many moons ago that it was easily converted to KU but changing the Feedhorn and adding a KU Lnb.

I never really checked into that...

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Neutron

Supporting Founder

Last reply 9 minutes ago · posted in The Chit Chat Club

RIP Patrick Stewart

Patrick Stewart died yesterday, October 28th at the age of 86. We lost yet another great actor.

Patrick Stewart, ‘Star Trek’ Captain and ‘X-Men’ Superhero, Dies at 86

He’s forever known for playing Jean-Luc Picard and Charles Xavier, whom he “admired for their morality, for their kindness, for their sensitivity, for their compassion.”

www.hollywoodreporter.com

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telstar_1

9 minutes ago

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dishstaller

Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter

Last reply 35 minutes ago · posted in The Chit Chat Club

I think we could all use a laugh - Rodney Dangerfield on Carson

Good...simple humor. Enjoy

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E92AtfTLge4

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJy0WnejlF4

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Jimbo

Today at 12:37 AM

Not Rodney, but a laugh ...

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/WHEcmortfK0?feature=share

dishstaller

Today at 10:27 AM

Sorry for posting the wrong link. Just corrected it.

Reactions: Foxbat

dfergie

43 minutes ago

I loved it when Rodney was on the Tonight Show...

Foxbat

35 minutes ago

dishstaller said:
Sorry for posting the wrong link. Just corrected it.

Thanks, I wasn't sure if you had the wrong Subject or the wrong YouTube link.

"MysteryMan"

Pub Member / Supporter Cutting Edge

Last reply 39 minutes ago · posted in Computers and Gadgets

Windows 10/11 Download

I created this thread on the original Edgecutter Cutting Edge Forums site. It's simply a place for those to review the latest software available for those using Windows 10 and Windows 11. To date it has received 112,559 views. I have been asked by staff to continue this thread here.

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EarDemon

Oct 13, 2026

If it wasn't for what I want, I wouldn't need any of this.

Do I need a collection of handheld radios, scanners and speed enforcement countermeasures? Nope, but I want them. Very little, if any of the software used to interface with these devices is available on Linux.

WhiteBeard

Oct 13, 2026

EarDemon said:
If it wasn't for what I want, I wouldn't need any of this.

Do I need a collection of handheld radios, scanners and speed enforcement countermeasures? Nope, but I want them. Very little, if any of the software used to interface with these devices is available on Linux.

To each there own but I've found that Windows can't do much more than Linux can. Can't have everything.

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EarDemon

Oct 14, 2026

WhiteBeard said:
To each there own but I've found that Windows can't do much more than Linux can. Can't have everything.

For niche use cases, yes I agree. Kali for ethical hacking and security testing, and running a Cacti server for network monitoring are the two things I have experience in. Plus thousands and thousands of other things, but for every day use I just can't see it. The owner of the GMRS repeater that I pay to access is changing the Tx DPL tones tomorrow, while Chirp is available on Linux, the software to program my MXT500 is not.

I run Fedora and Ubuntu in VMWare, honestly I don't care much for the UI of either of them and I don't feel like spending days/weeks to customize the UI to make it look Windows-like when I could just use Windows. The cartoonish dock at the bottom of the screen reminds me of Apple products.

harshness

Oct 15, 2026

EarDemon said:
I don't care much for the UI of either of them and I don't feel like spending days/weeks to customize the UI to make it look Windows-like when I could just use Windows.

What is so fantabulous about the Windows UI? By many accounts, it has been going downhill since Windows 7.

There are Linux desktops that offer Windows or Mac UIs, yet you don't hear much chatter about them outside of questions about when the creators might get sued.

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EarDemon

Oct 15, 2026

harshness said:
What is so fantabulous about the Windows UI?

Because it's what I prefer. I know I've said this a few times, I use Open Shell to give me the cascading start menu a la WIN 95 and NT4.0. The only reason I went from Windows Vista to 7 back in the day was because of Classic Shell. I cannot stand anything other than the OG start menu from 30+ years ago. I'm using ExplorerPatcher to give me Windows 10 UI elements of the taskbar and right click context menus.

If you could take a look at how I set up Windows 95, you'd find many similarities to how I use 11.

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EarDemon

Oct 15, 2026

I could probably use that as a starting point, but I don't like the full size icons. If you have to click on each folder that's also a no-go for me, it has to be cascading.

I used to have Peppermint Linux in a VM, that was about as close as I could get to recreating a Windows NT4.0 style of menu structure, but I could never get it to scale properly in VMWare on a 4K display and eventually gave up.

Whatever the boot up time it's fine with me. The longest part of my bootup is the HP SureStart BIOS integrity check. Once that is done, it's only a few more seconds. I haven't done this reg tweak yet since the reformat, but I switched the bootup animation to the Windows 10 style spinning circle of dots, and it's two and a half rotations. I can live with that.

harshness

Oct 16, 2026

EarDemon said:
Because it's what I prefer.

I hope you don't believe that makes it wonderful (especially when you're using workarounds for Microsoft's malfeasance).

I use LibreOffice as opposed to Microsoft office (even in Windows) because it's UI is like the Office of old, so I'm putting my money where my mouth is (in a manner of speaking). The ribbon was one of the worst ideas to come out Redmond.

HipKat

Oct 16, 2026

EarDemon said:
I could probably use that as a starting point, but I don't like the full size icons. If you have to click on each folder that's also a no-go for me, it has to be cascading.

I used to have Peppermint Linux in a VM, that was about as close as I could get to recreating a Windows NT4.0 style of menu structure, but I could never get it to scale properly in VMWare on a 4K display and eventually gave up.

Whatever the boot up time it's fine with me. The longest part of my bootup is the HP SureStart BIOS integrity check. Once that is done, it's only a few more seconds. I haven't done this reg tweak yet since the reformat, but I switched the bootup animation to the Windows 10 style spinning circle of dots, and it's two and a half rotations. I can live with that.

I used to pin the C: drive to the Win Taskbar and it would open in cascading style

"MysteryMan"

Yesterday at 2:25 PM

2026-10 Preview Update Builds: 26300.9818 and 26200.9818 (KB5127936) has been released. Moderate time needed for those choosing to perform a manual download/install/restart. Quality improvements only. No new operating system features.

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JSheridan

39 minutes ago

Actually it looks like there are a lot of features new or updated, although most are on a gradual rollout schedule.

KB5127936 Windows 11 Cumulative Update Preview build 26200.9818 (25H2) and 26300.9818 (26H2) - Oct. 28

Microsoft Support: This cumulative update for Windows 11, versions 26H2 and 25H2 (KB5127936), includes production-quality improvements. Announcements and messages This section provides key notifications related to this release, including announcements, change logs, and end-of-support notices...

www.elevenforum.com

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MartyDe

Last reply Today at 3:20 PM · posted in Over the Air Television By RabbitEars.Info

ATSC 3 converter boxes

Interesting article about the work being done to develope an ATSC 3 converter box. Yes it does mention affordable.

Pearl TV Issues Progress Report on Low-Cost 3.0 Converters in Advance of NAB Show New York

Group has secured lower pricing from key tech players to make less costly boxes available

www.tvtechnology.com

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navychop

Oct 20, 2026

DEATH TO NEXGEN!

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primestar31

Oct 21, 2026

navychop said:
DEATH TO NEXGEN!

It's dead, they just don't know it yet. They killed it by forcing DRM on it, and that TOTALLY botched implementing it.

There is absolutely NO compelling reason for anybody to switch to ATSC3.0. They only want it as a total and complete money grab.

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Mister B

Oct 22, 2026

What bothers me is the total waste of broadcasting spectrum in this very crowded market. It has been almost three years now since KFOX converted their broadcast tower to ATSC 3.0 and moved all of their channels to other towers causing noticeable degradation of the picture quality.
I have a Sony TV with 3.0 capabilities but still use the 1.0 version of locals due to the fact that one or all of the 3.0 channels are often missing or unwatchable. In this city of 800K I doubt that more than a few hundred even know about ATSC 3.0.
The only thing that could motivate me to be interested in 3.0 would be if all of the minor networks (diginets) could be in at least 720P rather than blurry ultra-compressed 480i.
Three years is long enough to waste one of the few available RF frequencies in the area for this trial.
It is time to either move on with this experiment or call it quits.

navychop

Oct 22, 2026

Mister B said:
It is time to either move on with this experiment or call it quits.

QFT. Of course, my preference involves a curb and some kicking.

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slow_poke_pete

Tuesday at 5:37 PM

primestar31 said:
It's dead, they just don't know it yet. They killed it by forcing DRM on it, and that TOTALLY botched implementing it.

There is absolutely NO compelling reason for anybody to switch to ATSC3.0. They only want it as a total and complete money grab.

WHAT ABOUT THE INTERNET PART OF IT. NO ONE WANTS A BOX CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET EITHER.

navychop

Tuesday at 9:47 PM

Cough, cough. COVID vaccine implants.

:oldlaugh

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Foxbat

Yesterday at 6:39 PM

navychop said:
Cough, cough. COVID vaccine implants.

That would be handy. Download the latest RNA snippets that can be updated over 5G and no more shots! You're a Genius!

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Redbullsnation

Today at 3:20 PM

I want it and I have to have it.

I can neuter the phoning home with adguard home so it won't be doing that in my castle but I prefer without Internet so that my TVs in the house don't turn into e-waste

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mheisen

Last reply Today at 2:50 PM · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

Hopper 3 with Hopper plus internet connection problems

Over the past few weeks, I have had problems connecting to streaming services (Netflix, HBO et al). When I go to the TV's native Channels, I have no problem. The Dish internet troubleshooter shows I have a good internet connection. I'm wondering whether it's an issue with my internet provider or a problem with the Dish software on the Hopper Plus. Anyone else seeing this?

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Almighty1

Today at 2:50 PM

mheisen said:
Over the past few weeks, I have had problems connecting to streaming services (Netflix, HBO et al). When I go to the TV's native Channels, I have no problem. The Dish internet troubleshooter shows I have a good internet connection. I'm wondering whether it's an issue with my internet provider or a problem with the Dish software on the Hopper Plus. Anyone else seeing this?

I have a DISH Hopper 3 (Software H713) with Hopper Plus (Software P15403). I have not tried streaming services but I primarily watch TVB Jadeworld international package which is only available by streaming and when I have an issue, I usually have to go to a non-streaming satellite channel first before the streaming channels will work again. What software versions do you have and what is the error message if any are showing on your screen? or is that Dish downloading logo just stuck and never finishes?

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dishstaller

Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter

Today at 2:43 PM · posted in The Chit Chat Club

New report states 29% of vehicles being traded in are under water

It states the average amount they are under water is OVER $7,000. :eek

Personally, I tend to be the type that drives a vehicle for a lot of years....do my own oil changes and other fluid changes. Just replaced the spark plugs and a couple coils. Youtube is great for things like this.

Nearly 3 In 10 New-Car Trade-Ins Are Underwater, Edmunds Finds | ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

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Scott Greczkowski

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge

Last reply Today at 2:42 PM · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Song Name Game Part 3!

Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne

Get it?

An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....

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Bobby

Today at 10:51 AM

98.6 - Keith

harshness

Today at 11:25 AM

I'm Easy - Keith Carridine

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gms49ers

Today at 11:41 AM

It's Easy - Boston

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RaiderPower

Today at 12:33 PM

Take It Easy On Me - Little River Band

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long_time_Dish

Today at 2:42 PM

Take It Easy - The Eagles

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jamieh1

Last reply Today at 2:32 PM · posted in DIRECTV Programming Forum

FAST Channels added to DIRECTV Stream/Internet

DIRECTV Stream/Internet added Ch 4105 SportsGrid

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KyL416

Sep 9, 2026

Now live:
4101 Yahoo! Sports Network
4121 DP World Tour
4195 F1 Channel
4196 MotoGP Channel

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KyL416

Sep 22, 2026

Now live:
4275 Law & Crime
4364 Military Makeover Channel

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KyL416

Oct 6, 2026

Game Show Central is now live on channel 4342

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KyL416

Oct 20, 2026

KyL416 said:
Now live:
4101 Yahoo! Sports Network
4121 DP World Tour
4195 F1 Channel
4196 MotoGP Channel

It only took them 41 days to announce it

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KyL416

Today at 2:32 PM

Now testing:
AyM Sports 3 USA
Best Bets TV powered by VSiN
CBS Sports Golazo Network
CBS Sports HQ
Judge Judy

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TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Today at 2:22 PM · posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Tech News Weekly 461

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7E4fkSffYKA

Direct YouTube Link - Tech News Weekly 461
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed

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dfergie

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU!

Last reply Today at 1:50 PM · posted in What's Cooking?

What's For Lunch?

We have a Breakfast and Dinner thread so...

Continuing from the Breakfast thread, found Cornbread mix so ...
Yellow Cornbread Mix
2 Hatch Green Chiles -diced
1 Egg
2/3 cup of milk
add to greased pan
Bake for 400f 20-25 minutes(From instructions)
now to put together and try... this to go with pinto beans...

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TRG

Oct 19, 2026

Club sandwich and corn chowder. Iced tea.

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dfergie

Oct 19, 2026

Chili dog bowl, water… (homemade chili)

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TRG

Monday at 2:53 PM

Leftover wanton soup and pork fried rice. Water.

dfergie

Today at 1:26 PM

Sweet tea…

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TRG

Today at 1:50 PM

Tuna salad sandwich on toasted honey whole wheat bread with a handful of kettle chips. Water.

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Analog to Digital

RIP Patrick Stewart

Patrick Stewart, ‘Star Trek’ Captain and ‘X-Men’ Superhero, Dies at 86

I think we could all use a laugh - Rodney Dangerfield on Carson

Windows 10/11 Download

KB5127936 Windows 11 Cumulative Update Preview build 26200.9818 (25H2) and 26300.9818 (26H2) - Oct. 28

ATSC 3 converter boxes

Pearl TV Issues Progress Report on Low-Cost 3.0 Converters in Advance of NAB Show New York

Hopper 3 with Hopper plus internet connection problems

New report states 29% of vehicles being traded in are under water

Nearly 3 In 10 New-Car Trade-Ins Are Underwater, Edmunds Finds | ZeroHedge

Song Name Game Part 3!

FAST Channels added to DIRECTV Stream/Internet

Tech News Weekly 461

What's For Lunch?