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GaryPen
Supporting Founder
Last reply · posted in DISH Network Support Forum
Since when did Dish start charging tax in CA?

I was just playing around with the new service configurator, and is adding tax to the monthly total. I've never seen that before.

The really odd thing is that it's quite a bit higher than the normal sales tax rate.

Is there a thread about this somewhere on satguys, or some more info somewhere?
17 Replies · 3002 views
F
They charge sales tax on your leased equipment as required under CA law. If you own the receiver, no sales tax will be charged monthly.
Pen15head
they arrive at 11.57 for the second hd-dvr because they have to collect tax on the 100.00 upgrade charge that is required for the second hd-dvr. only your first bill would have that tax. afterwards on your following bill you would not have such a high tax.

it looks like you are paying 9.3 percent on taxes for your equipment. even though they do not charge you directly on the bill for your first receivers monthly use, it is calculated into the equation. they rate the primary rec lease fee at 9.00. if you are out of commit and have a leased rec and subscribe to a non-qualifying package you would see this fee for your primary leased rec. keep in mind that in california you have to pay taxes on the value of the item even if your charge is waived.

example : single 612 you pay taxes on 13.00. they charge you directly 6.00 for the dvr, but waive the 9.00 first rec activation. 1.38/13= 9.3 percent

with two 211, they collect taxes on 16.00 (they charge you 7.00 and waive the 9.00 primary rec fee) 1.48/16= 9.3 percent

with one 612 and one 211, dish collects taxes on 22.00 (you pay 7.00 rec fee and 6.00 dvr fee, they waive 9.00 primary rec lease fee). 2.04/22= 9.3 percent

with a solo rec they collect 0.84 cents tax (they waive the 9.00 leased rec fee) .84/9 = 9.3 percent

with a 612 and a 722 they collect 11.57 on first bill only for taxes. (100.00 rec upgrade, 6.00 dvr fee, 10.00 solo hd-dvr fee, and they waive the 9.00 primary rec fee) 11.57/125 = 9.3 percent. from there on they collect only 2.33 a month taxes.


and for the record, dish is not charging you these taxes. your state of california is charging these taxes, dish is simply required by law to collect them.
Pen15head
it was. this was a long time ago. they had later changed the law to the "no snack tax" and then later to all groceries.
GaryPen
<snip>

and for the record, dish is not charging you these taxes. your state of california is charging these taxes, dish is simply required by law to collect them.
No sh**?

nothing wrong with dishes formula. it is you. you live in california, and you vote those into office who make the choices on how you are taxed.
I am familiar with sales tax, being an adult who has bought stuff for a long time. However, on the surface, it certainly appeared there was something wrong with Dish's formula, until you explained the phantom $9 and upgrade fee they were charging, ummm collecting, tax on. It would be nice if THEY would explain what they are basing the taxes on, to avoid such misunderstandings in the future.

i have Directv and pay no tax to California on my bill .I have a leased HD DVR. i live in the central valley area.
Hmmm. Interesting. Either DirecTV is breaking the law by not collecting the sales tax, or Dish is indeed charging sales tax they shouldn't be, and also breaking the law.

Now, what about wholly-owned receivers? If I owned all of the receivers, then Dish shouldn't be collecting sales tax at all. Or, are they required to tax the add'l receiver fees too? Does anybody know the answer?
J
When I had DirecTV leased and owned I paid taxes,not alot like a buck something maybe less.Now with Dish I have a 625 leased still pay a buck something.Not enough to have a cow over(maybe a squirrel).;):D
GaryPen
I like squirrels.
GaryPen
If you own the receiver, no sales tax will be charged monthly.
For some reason, I never really noticed the latter part of your post. Thanks for the info. That explains why my company pays no tax on our commercial account. All the gear is owned.

However, I'm thinking of going back to the big E* at home, and was wondering what the sitch was.
D
it was. this was a long time ago. they had later changed the law to the "no snack tax" and then later to all groceries.

Actually, there was no tax on ANY food items (that is not consumed on the premises) for decades, but with the economic downturn of the 1990's, they added a "Snack Tax" that was so overwhelmingly confusing (not all true "Snacks" were taxed) and unpopular, it was repealed a short time later. It was considered a flop and a stupid mistake, and the politicians won't go down that road again. They will find other things to tax. We have had no tax on any food items NOT consumed on the premises for almost 20 years now. Please, this is ancient California history.

However, there is great confusion regarding the current if purchased at grocery or supermarket or take out/to go food, it is NOT to be taxed. However, a great many business go ahead and tax even take-out because of confusion and they don't want CA taking legal action upon them for not collecting/paying point-of-sales tax. They aired a really good report on local LA news about how many businesses are confused about the eating in vs. eating out point-of-sales tax. So, yes, a good many people have been incorrectly taxed when paying for take out food.

Starbucks used to make a point of asking if food/drinks were to be consumed on or off of the premises (and had a sign explaining CA food eat in and eat out tax policy) and would only charge tax if you consumed the items in the store. Then, some years ago, they just gave up (like all the other retail food businesses) and started charging tax on ALL orders. Very sad. but CA doesn't seem to be making certain that those who should not be paying point-of-sales tax shouldn't. It works in the state's favor, but still not right.
R
· posted in Computers and Gadgets
After having continuing trouble with my eight+ year old Dell Inspiron laptop I am looking to hopefully catch a good deal on new one. My options to buy is Costco and Sam's Club. It seems like a lot of new laptops are 2 in 1 which I do not need. I use the laptop to mainly surf the web and keep up with my finances, money and bills. I would like to have at least a 15" screen and having a touchscreen is a plus. The keyboard would need to lighted also. I don't game any. It would have to be Windows instead of and not Mac. The brands I see the most are Asus, Dell and HP. My two last laptops has been Dell's. Of these brands are there any standouts over the other brands. My budget (hopefully) is $600+-. Also while researching I noticed that do not have ethernet ports.
0 Replies · 11 views
ewindowman
Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in DISH Network Support Forum
Looks like dish is Bankrupt. Filling tomorrow Tuesday June 30th
430 Replies · 14441 views
ewindowman
Correct me if I'm wrong but Dish borrowed lots of money to start a wireless company that was most likely doomed from the beginning. They bought spectrum at any cost to acquire enough bandwidth to achieve their goal. They signed leases and bought equipment and borrowed more money. They held onto the spectrum as long as possible. They then sold most of it to different companies and made a lot of money. Then they started to screw the companies that were installing and leasing the equipment and cell towers. Now they are going to claim bankruptcy under the Dish Network part of Echo Star while they have billions of dollars. So Dish basically took everyone's money that was involved in the financial part of this transaction made a huge profit is screwing everyone over from the banks to the little guy working on the towers and infrastructure.
Bruce
News about the tower's dispute-

comfortably_numb
News about the tower's dispute-


So does this mean the churches and businesses that Dish owes back payments to are going to get paid now?
nelson61
"
They note that the Dish Wireless radios at issue support the 2GHz and 800MHz spectrum SpaceX is acquiring from EchoStar and Grain.

"Buying compatible equipment already installed on towers could give SpaceX a head start on its wireless terrestrial network build and throw a big bucket of cold water on Verizon's four-to-six-year timeline and $300-$500 billion estimate for SpaceX's buildout," said the analysts."
S
Correct me if I'm wrong but Dish borrowed lots of money to start a wireless company that was most likely doomed from the beginning. They bought spectrum at any cost to acquire enough bandwidth to achieve their goal. They signed leases and bought equipment and borrowed more money. They held onto the spectrum as long as possible. They then sold most of it to different companies and made a lot of money. Then they started to screw the companies that were installing and leasing the equipment and cell towers. Now they are going to claim bankruptcy under the Dish Network part of Echo Star while they have billions of dollars. So Dish basically took everyone's money that was involved in the financial part of this transaction made a huge profit is screwing everyone over from the banks to the little guy working on the towers and infrastructure.
i heard charlie went to dubai begging for money. but he didn't get none... that should have raised red flags.
R
"
They note that the Dish Wireless radios at issue support the 2GHz and 800MHz spectrum SpaceX is acquiring from EchoStar and Grain.

"Buying compatible equipment already installed on towers could give SpaceX a head start on its wireless terrestrial network build and throw a big bucket of cold water on Verizon's four-to-six-year timeline and $300-$500 billion estimate for SpaceX's buildout," said the analysts."
Back when Dish was installing antennas everywhere for their internet service I mapped several of the tower locations around me. One is less than a mile away from me and several more about three miles away in several different directions. If SpaceX does something with these I may be in a prime spot.
dishstaller
Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
This should hit a lot of folks with a dose of reality. I can only imagine how much more common this will get as AI progresses.

I read several stories on this and most are clear as mud. They say a lot of the stolen bitcoin has been "locked out" and that everyone will be made financially whole. I guess time will tell if either of these statements are actually true.

13 Replies · 179 views
Juan
Where would you spend 6.3 billion in crypto without anyone noticing?..In today's digital world most countries are watching purchases over 10k
dishstaller
Where would you spend 6.3 billion in crypto without anyone noticing?
They say it was North Korea so they'll probably just use it to buy things they need....oil, food, etc from nations and entities who don't care where the money comes from and since it is BTC...it can be spent anywhere with no blowback.
Juan
They say it was North Korea so they'll probably just use it to buy things they need....oil, food, etc from nations and entities who don't care where the money comes from and since it is BTC...it can be spent anywhere with no blowback.
Someone using AI would be able to see the purchase...plus if you were to buy a couple billion barrels of oil or any other commodity..someone would notice..or if you bought your own country
T
How does it have such billions simply "on hand" to replace stolen billions?
harshness
How does it have such billions simply "on hand" to replace stolen billions?
You "print" it, of course. That's part of the magic of cryptocurrency.
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meStevo
They say it was North Korea so they'll probably just use it to buy things they need....oil, food, etc from nations and entities who don't care where the money comes from and since it is BTC...it can be spent anywhere with no blowback.
North Korea can't pay for oil with BTC. The money has to be laundered and cashed out first. Analytics firms can trace it on the public blockchain, and exchanges (including Binance) have frozen money traced back to prior hacks when it showed up. Much of it may still gets through eventually. It's just slow and lossy, not "spend anywhere."

Someone using AI would be able to see the purchase...plus if you were to buy a couple billion barrels of oil or any other commodity..someone would notice..or if you bought your own country

It can be traced, the rest of this is pretty much your usual nonsense though.

How does it have such billions simply "on hand" to replace stolen billions?

Binance has had an insurance fund since 2018, funded by 10% of trading fees. It's around $1.2B, and Binance says it'll cover the rest from company money. As the world's largest exchange, it makes a lot in fees. On top of that, the ~$3B in frozen stablecoins can be reissued by Tether/Circle, so the actual hole is smaller than the headline.

You "print" it, of course. That's part of the magic of cryptocurrency.

Nobody can print bitcoin, Binance included. Supply is fixed by the protocol. The only thing in this story that can be frozen and reissued is stablecoins, because they have a company behind them.
R
They say it was North Korea so they'll probably just use it to buy things they need....oil, food, etc from nations and entities who don't care where the money comes from and since it is BTC...it can be spent anywhere with no blowback.

HA! That short/fat Dictator will buy more arms. He does not care about the people.
Scott Greczkowski
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne


Get it?


An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....
68688 Replies · 2681831 views
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long_time_Dish
Lonely Wind - Kansas
dishstaller
Lonely is the Night - Billy Squier
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long_time_Dish
Tender Is The Night - Jackson Browne
H
THE NIGHT Chicago Died-Paper Lace
ClarkGable
(I Just) Died In Your Arms - Cutting Crew
Former member 209992
Last reply · posted in SatelliteGuys Support Center
For some reason, the satelliteguys.us site is loading a lot slower than usual on both Chrome on my Asus laptop and Safari on my iPhone.
I'm also seeing longer appearances of the blue bar at the top and the "3 blue bars" loading symbol.
Is anyone else also having the same problem? Thanks in advance.
555 Replies · 20001 views
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Foxbat
IMG_1560.webp
A.I. - Be careful what you wish for…
T
6:43p Central was dumped off the site, then when I got back on could not reply to post. Down for several minutes.
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Scott Greczkowski
6:43p Central was dumped off the site, then when I got back on could not reply to post. Down for several minutes.
Yeah... that was me...

I did another security update and it required me to reboot the server.

I also did a patch for something else and accidently put two ;'s in the config file so when the server rebooted it wouldn't restart a service because of the extra ; in the config file.

And of course as I did it my step dad called me slowing me down in figuring it out.

That was a Scott mistake. Sorry about that.
navychop
OFF WITH YOUR HEAD!

Aww- nevermind.

;)
S
been blazing fast here :)
Ramy
Supporting Founder
Last reply · posted in The Sports Section
Really excited for this season with Kentucky having a new coach and some really exciting recruits. Probably won't last long, but here's hoping this season is great.
177 Replies · 2946 views
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Y
You mean other than Miami being in the final last year... and Indiana being the only bye team to win a game?
Jimbo
You mean other than Miami being in the final last year... and Indiana being the only bye team to win a game?
No, I was actually referring to outside of the Top 8, but should have been Top 12 ...

I guess I should have looked at the bracket from last year first ...

I'm more thinking about them trying to expect a 15 to beat a 5 seed or there abouts .
Ronnie-
I'm more thinking about them trying to expect a 15 to beat a 5 seed or there abouts .
I mean you get upsets all the time.

Just a couple of weeks ago. Unranked Florida knocked off number 7 texas. Unranked Auburn beat number 1 Georgia.

This week unranked Cincinnati beat number 8 texas Tech. Unranked UCF beat number 2 BYU.

No reason to think similar upsets wont happen in the playoffs where a low seed can upset a higher one.
Jimbo
I mean you get upsets all the time.

Just a couple of weeks ago. Unranked Florida knocked off number 7 texas. Unranked Auburn beat number 1 Georgia.

This week unranked Cincinnati beat number 8 texas Tech. Unranked UCF beat number 2 BYU.

No reason to think similar upsets wont happen in the playoffs where a low seed can upset a higher one.
Correct, you Do get upsets from time to time ....however .
You Don't get teams UPSETTING teams for 5 weeks in a row.

They are trying to make this Basketball and its a far cry from the way that is played.

How long till they go to 32 teams ? Then they will say, well, the NFL is 32 teams, we can make more money that way .... except the NFL is 32 teams, that are a set number of teams and divisions, you don't have that in College ... oh but they will try.

They would have to choose what teams they would want in and thats it.
Hopefully that NEVER happens.

I can see the NCAA going away and the CFP taking that portion over and a Collective Bargaining agreement coming in the not to distant future.
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Ronnie-
Correct, you Do get upsets from time to time
Yes. As shown in a few posts now.


You Don't get teams UPSETTING teams for 5 weeks in a row.

.
But that wasn't what your stated argument was though.


I mean if you drag it out, no team even a favorite is gonna win every game 20 weeks in a row.


With the parity in college football now, who knows who can beat anyone at any given time?

This season and last have shown it might not be the ones we think that might win it all that will win it all.
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Jimbo
Yes. As shown in a few posts now.



But that wasn't what your stated argument was though.


I mean if you drag it out, no team even a favorite is gonna win every game 20 weeks in a row.


With the parity in college football now, who knows who can beat anyone at any given time?

This season and last have shown it might not be the ones we think that might win it all that will win it all.
No, no ... if you want to make the playoffs, you want to Win it ... If you want to Win it, you need to Win 4-5 games in a row against Top 10 teams for the most part, theres a Possibility you'd play someone out side of the Top 10, but not much.

The Playoffs is a 4-5 game Win or Go Home.
osu1991
:mad:..I hate playing in Ames.
Jimbo
:mad:..I hate playing in Ames.
I hate playing in LA ... :oldmad
Buckeyes had 2 weeks off and came out and looked absolutely terrible ... broke in a new Freshman Qb, but that wasn't the worst part ... undiscipline play, at last count they had 10 penalties.
Freshman in the end of the game trying to play catch up, had a lot of Over throws ... Bucks lose ...

#1 Miami struggled but pulled away in the end beating North Carolina by 3 ...

Tuesday the CFP brings out thier Playoff Top 12 again ... Buckeyes should drop from #2 to about #22 (they won't) had they had thier Starting QB, it would have been a different game ...

They could lose the rest of thier games at this point.
osu1991
Pub Member / Supporter
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
:mad::mad::mad::mad:

Pissed off at the crappy healthcare costs

My health Insurance renewal for 2027 just came in. Going from $827 a month to $1,187 a month. Deductible going up a $1k to $9,350. Max out of pocket also going up $1k to $11,000. Doctor co-pay of $40. Urgent Care co-pay $50. ER 50% coinsurance after deductible. That's all in network. Out of network is double, should it be needed.

Have to think about this. I'm really tempted to just go without now. I only go to the doctor once or twice a year. I pay out of pocket for Tirzepitide and can do without the Rosuvastatin (crestor) now. Really tired of spending over $10k a year and getting nothing out of it.

After years with Blue Cross I switched last year to Ambetter as my Blue Cross premium was going from $1200 to $1800 for a Silver plan and the Bronze plan was still going to be $1300 at BCBS. Ambetter was $827 for the same coverage with a Bronze plan. Didn't think it would jump this much so soon.

I'm guessing a Silver plan is probably over $2,000 a month for 2027.
21 Replies · 322 views
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vazhog
that cut is only for illegals to get off the rolls and I was being sarcastic before -
harshness
that cut is only for illegals to get off the rolls and I was being sarcastic before -
That's not who it is for. The cut is for those who won't work (though you typically had to prove that you couldn't work to get it in the first place).
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Foxbat
Why isn't this Political thread over in the Pit? This is why there is a Pit, and why I rarely use the Chit Chat Club. But someone said, "The Pub is Elitist since you have to pay dues to enter, so please post in the Chit Chat forum so more guests can read and participate."
osu1991
Why isn't this Political thread over in the Pit? This is why there is a Pit, and why I rarely use the Chit Chat Club. But someone said, "The Pub is Elitist since you have to pay dues to enter, so please post in the Chit Chat forum so more guests can read and participate."
I didn't start it as a political statement and have no interest in the political BS of this country. Everyone wants to make everything political nowadays. This was just my rant over the outrageous increase in my premiums and how unaffordable healthcare is becoming to the average person here.

admin can close or delete it if they don't want here.
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Bobby
Why isn't this Political thread over in the Pit? This is why there is a Pit, and why I rarely use the Chit Chat Club. But someone said, "The Pub is Elitist since you have to pay dues to enter, so please post in the Chit Chat forum so more guests can read and participate."
There are no dues to be paid to be in the Pit. You just have to use the password which is clearly shown when you try to log in to it.
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dishstaller
Everyone wants to make everything political nowadays.

Yes.....they do. Which is why I am very careful when at a customer's house these days....you NEVER know what is going to set someone off. Polite dialog is a thing of the past.....which is why I like my dog so much :)
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dishdude
That's not who it is for. The cut is for those who won't work (though you typically had to prove that you couldn't work to get it in the first place).

Which makes zero sense. If they are healthy and able to work but won't, they aren't using any health resources up.
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navychop
Until a runaway pickle truck hits them.
dishdude
Until a runaway pickle truck hits them.

I'm sure Vlasic has good insurance!
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Scott Greczkowski
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge
Last reply · posted in SiriusXM Satellite Radio
Some of the channels start next week.

4 Replies · 226 views
comfortably_numb
My favorite is probably Holiday Pops.
TRG
TRG
It's not even Halloween yet.
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Scott Greczkowski
I like the Jimmy Fallon channel. This will be its third year. I like that it's all fresh each year. Also fun when he pops on live from time to time.
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Don in CT
My favorite is probably Holiday Pops.
So it's a drunk father telling his in-laws to leave.
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dishstaller
Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in DISH Network Support Forum
I figured some of the guys would be looking here for an answer. You'll need to use this link

I'll mention what happened over there. I don't want to cause Scott any issues or put him in a bad spot.
7 Replies · 314 views
dishstaller
If any of you know some of the guys from the board and you have their contact info, please reach out to them....many failed to update their contact info and some even had starband email addresses.
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Scott Greczkowski
I figured some of the guys would be looking here for an answer. You'll need to use this link

I'll mention what happened over there. I don't want to cause Scott any issues or put him in a bad spot.
Now I have to go check out what happened now. Lol!
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Scott Greczkowski
Went and looked, not too bad...

Just let people know the address is satelliteretailer.com as DishRetailer.COM is not working. :)
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(((Garyd)))
If any of you know some of the guys from the board and you have their contact info, please reach out to them....many failed to update their contact info and some even had starband email addresses.
Your old link triggered my Bitdefender today.
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(((Garyd)))
Now I have to go check out what happened now. Lol!
I had a direct link to ]Political, thought provoking and debatable but now have to go in the main section or I get a warning on my Bitdefender
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dishstaller
Now I have to go check out what happened now. Lol!
I sent you a PM Scott. Doesn't really make any sense to me BUT....I've never claimed to be the sharpest knife in the drawer....though I just might be the most persistent. :baby
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Scott Greczkowski
I sent you a PM Scott. Doesn't really make any sense to me BUT....I've never claimed to be the sharpest knife in the drawer....though I just might be the most persistent. :baby
Its an automated bot. Explained it to you in the PM.
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osu1991
Pub Member / Supporter
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club

The number-one US state for EV growth, according to the June 22 Yardi report?
Oklahoma.


:eek


It has no ZEV mandates and "minimal" incentives, Yardi says, but also has cheap electricity, high multi-car household rates (so, for example, a non-Lightning Ford F-150 pulls their trailers), and a consumer base willing to switch.
117 Replies · 1173 views
meStevo

Never realized that Tesla is losing to BYD at manufacturing too, which IMO is Tesla's biggest accomplishment and area of innovation. Nice writeup about the state of play and how we got here though. I have no faith that we're moving any productive direction though sadly, most changes and efforts feel reactionary rather than rooted in making use of the time being bought by tariffs, with few exceptions.

So: how are the cars so cheap, and what is being cut to get there? The best public accounting comes from the Rhodium Group, which compared BYD, Geely, and Leapmotor against Tesla's Chinese operation, a fair comparison because it removes labor costs and shipping from the equation entirely. Their estimate is that BYD builds a car for about $4,700 less than Tesla builds a Model 3 in Shanghai, roughly 15 percent of the Model 3's price. The breakdown is the interesting part. Direct government grants account for about $292 per vehicle, which is 5 percent of the gap. The biggest single factor is vertical integration: BYD makes about 80 percent of its top-tier components in-house, against 37 percent for Tesla, and that eliminates roughly $2,369 per vehicle in supplier markups. Lower overhead, meaning cheaper engineering talent and administrative cost spread across enormous volume, accounts for another $1,719. And BYD pays its suppliers on 155-day terms, against Tesla's 60, which is worth about $214 per car in float. When people say the Chinese advantage is subsidies, the per-vehicle number says otherwise. When people say it is slave wages, the Tesla Shanghai comparison says otherwise too. The advantage is mostly that BYD decided, twenty years ago, to make its own batteries, its own motors, its own power electronics, and its own semiconductors, and Western automakers decided the opposite.​
harshness
If it weren't for the sky-high electricity prices...

Of course, the real scare with Winter coming is the insane cost of heating oil.
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osu1991

GM said its next-generation vehicle architecture will provide 40 times more computing power and 30 percent less wiring than before and will expand from the 2028 Cadillac Escalade IQ to its high-volume SUVs, trucks, crossovers, and fourth-generation EVs, which will be powered by lithium manganese-rich (LMR) prismatic batteries

Despite the politicization and perceived consumer pivot away from EVs in America, GM needs to remain globally competitive, so it's doubling down on its fourth generation EVs, with energy-dense, cheaper-to-manufacture LMR batteries, more efficient motors, and state-of-the-art centralized computing architecture. With a stated goal of cutting the traditional four- to five-year concept-to-production time in half, GM is clearly challenging the concept of "China speed," which in the Chinese automotive industry can be as quick as 18 months from design to start of production. In the AI space, GM is smartly collapsing all of its marque-specific apps under the familiar OnStar brand, while providing more features—both on the phone and in the car—than it ever has before.
harshness
Let's tell it like it is. GM's EV efforts are coming from SAIC. The brain trust is almost entirely in China, and GM is hanging off of SAIC's shirt tails.

It is a lot like asserting that the Corvette was designed by Chevrolet when most of it came from the Cadillac CTS-V.
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T

Never realized that Tesla is losing to BYD at manufacturing too, which IMO is Tesla's biggest accomplishment and area of innovation. Nice writeup about the state of play and how we got here though. I have no faith that we're moving any productive direction though sadly, most changes and efforts feel reactionary rather than rooted in making use of the time being bought by tariffs, with few exceptions.

So: how are the cars so cheap, and what is being cut to get there? The best public accounting comes from the Rhodium Group, which compared BYD, Geely, and Leapmotor against Tesla's Chinese operation, a fair comparison because it removes labor costs and shipping from the equation entirely. Their estimate is that BYD builds a car for about $4,700 less than Tesla builds a Model 3 in Shanghai, roughly 15 percent of the Model 3's price. The breakdown is the interesting part. Direct government grants account for about $292 per vehicle, which is 5 percent of the gap. The biggest single factor is vertical integration: BYD makes about 80 percent of its top-tier components in-house, against 37 percent for Tesla, and that eliminates roughly $2,369 per vehicle in supplier markups. Lower overhead, meaning cheaper engineering talent and administrative cost spread across enormous volume, accounts for another $1,719. And BYD pays its suppliers on 155-day terms, against Tesla's 60, which is worth about $214 per car in float. When people say the Chinese advantage is subsidies, the per-vehicle number says otherwise. When people say it is slave wages, the Tesla Shanghai comparison says otherwise too. The advantage is mostly that BYD decided, twenty years ago, to make its own batteries, its own motors, its own power electronics, and its own semiconductors, and Western automakers decided the opposite.​
That's how Ford did it- vertical integration. He even set up a rubber plantation in S. America