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rufwork

Last reply Sep 27, 2010 · posted in Over the Air Television By RabbitEars.Info

Charleston, SC installers & DXing

I'd like to pick up the Fox (channel 18/virt channel 43) and CBS affiliates from Myrtle Beach to get just slightly out of market NFL games from my home near Mount Pleasant, SC. It's just under 100 miles to the antennas, flat ground, and I'm just past the purple at TV Fool. That said, I'd be clearly DXing in the afternoons (1-7pm), which I understand might make things tough. If tropo is a daytime occurrence, it looks like I might have good and bad Sundays.

I've read up on the antenna options and a bit about amplifiers. It looks like an Antennas Direct 91XG is the right (or at least a good, affordable) choice, but it needs to be up pretty high, I think -- say 20-30 feet. I've also got a fair number of trees, but I'm not sure if that's as big a deal (oops: the HDTV Primer says, "§ UHF -- It is best to assume that trees block all signals."). I've got an indoors DB2 right now which, natch, gets nothing from Myrtle Beach.

From tvfool.com for Fox
(if I get this channel, imo, I "win")
=====================
Fox -- WFXB
Real: 18
Virt: 43-1
NM (dB): -18
Pwr (dBm): -108.8
Path: Tropo
Dist Miles: 96.4

I might be willing to put an antenna on a mast on my single story garage, but past that I'd like to get an expert. I've called dish installers and TV repair places, and nobody will or knows of someone that'll install an OTA antenna. It was pulling teeth to get my electrician to run coax to my roof when I built the house, strangely enough, and he (nice enough guy) said he didn't know how to install an antenna. :shocked

Anyhow, any ideas or advice? Far and away the best post I've found is this one and the description of "fringe" on the HDTV Primer is excellent, but as far as finding an installer that can figure out my specific issues (specific channels, etc) better than my guessing, I'm lost.

I realize I might not be able to pull it off.

Fun trying though, right?

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Robz

Sep 25, 2010

rufwork said:
I'd like to pick up the Fox (channel 18/virt channel 43) and CBS affiliates from Myrtle Beach to get just slightly out of market NFL games from my home near Mount Pleasant, SC. It's just under 100 miles to the antennas, flat ground, and I'm just past the purple at TV Fool.

Reception is possible at 100 miles distant, but atmospheric conditions will significantly influence path loss. I am able to receive channels located 110 miles distant mostly at night. Interference from other on channel TV broadcasters may also prevent reception. In addition, the so called "whites space" devices may make reception impossible, if and when implemented.
To get an idea of reception possibility, a UHF receiver or scanner tuned to the pilot carrier can detect the TV channel long before reception is possible. Theoretically 15 db S/N ratio is required.
A good antenna located preamp is also very helpful HDTV Low Noise Amplifiers and Preamplifiers, Preamps, NF 0.4 dB - Research Communications Ltd UK
These preamps are the best ones I have used. Excellent noise figure, very high immunity to signal overload.

rufwork

Sep 25, 2010

Robz said:
To get an idea of reception possibility, a UHF receiver or scanner tuned to the pilot carrier can detect the TV channel long before reception is possible. Theoretically 15 db S/N ratio is required.

Followed everything but this. "tuned to the pilot carrier" and "15 db S/N ratio" confuse me a little.

I'm assuming the latter is similar to the discussion at this post at dbstalk, but I'm still not able to figure how this works.

I guess I might as well skip the Channel Master 7777 amp and go straight for the UK version, then? Any recommendations for a channel 18 antenna? That same dbstalk thread talked about making your own channel-specific antenna. I tried the frequency I found here and plugged that into this page, but I don't know what the balance of the choices really mean there.

I think I need to visit the local university and see if I can buy an electrical engineer a good lunch.

I was a little worried to see this post that said the 91XG wasn't the best for channel 17 without saying what was. I assume that probably includes channel 18 as well, which is why I started Googling that channel-specific stuff.

EDIT: This "channel cut" antenna from Blonder-Tongue (for $215 plus shipping!) seems like the beat-all, end all antenna for channels 14-19 from my most recent Googling (also mentioned with two other brands here).

http://www.blondertongue.com/store/default.aspx?DepartmentId=43&F_ALL=Y
http://www.sateng.com/off-air-broadcast-reception/antenna/bty-10-u/ -- same one for $172 +shipping

Though this page the blonder tongue has a lower gain and that it's just built tougher.

No Static At All

Sep 25, 2010

rufwork said:
I was a little worried to see this post that said the 91XG wasn't the best for channel 17 without saying what was. I assume that probably includes channel 18 as well, which is why I started Googling that channel-specifics.

I've tried the original CM4228 & Winegard HD 8800 in an area that has low UHF channels 15, 16, 19, 21 & 22. The 91XG did better than either of the 8 bay antennas on the entire UHF band. On paper, the HD-8800 is said to be the best low band UHF performer, but I had much different results at that particular deep fringe location. (With a good deal of height & preamplifier experimentation) The 91XG antenna/Winegard 4800 preamp obtained the best results)

Larry1

Sep 25, 2010

rufwork said:
I've read up on the antenna options and a bit about amplifiers. It looks like an Antennas Direct 91XG is the right (or at least a good, affordable) choice, but it needs to be up pretty high, I think -- say 20-30 feet. I've also got a fair number of trees, but I'm not sure if that's as big a deal (oops: the HDTV Primer says, "§ UHF -- It is best to assume that trees block all signals.").

Even 20-30 feet might still be too low. How high are the trees around you? I'm in a deep fringe area and it is common for towers to be 4 to 5 sections plus. (each section is 10ft, plus mast) At 4 sections my neighbours antenna is about the height of the trees. I'm only currently have 3 sections and i'm below the trees and suffering from it. Definitely you need to be above the trees. Most of the towers in my area were put up 30-40 years ago. Since then the trees have grown. Remember, trees grow. Make sure you are above the trees enough to account for their grouth.
The one in this picture would be about 55-65ft.
T.V. Tower removal
There are free standing towers (like the one in the above picture), or ones that are attached to the side of your house.
http://overtheair.saveandreplay.com/Antenna_Towers.asp
Now, most channels in my are are 65 to 70 miles away. For further you would need even a higher tower and look into ganging 2 91XG's together.
http://www.aa6g.org/Lp/lp.html
For cost, the CM7777 is a very good pre-amp. The UK one (for me) is just too expensive for just a little less noise. If you want to make up for the CM7777 amp, use RG-11 cable and you should come out about even. (in my opinion, but that just my opinion)
Now to turn all that, look for a good heavy duty rotor. A lot of people use HAM rotors for the extra mass to move.
Now be prepared for sticker shock if you want an expert to put it up for you. Towers are not cheap, and add the antennas, rotors, cabling, pre-amp., etc....
100 miles may be just a little to far for reliable reception.

rufwork

Sep 26, 2010

Larry1 said:
100 miles may be just a little to far for reliable reception.

The NFL schemes against me, I'm telling you.

I might give the 91XG a shot in a field down the road at night up on a pole to see how it does. At $60, the worst I'm doing is giving myself a better antenna. I can't decide if I should bag an amp. I don't know that there's much to DX around here if it doesn't work other than Jacksonville and maybe Cola, and I'd hate to throw too much money down a hole. I suppose that's a few more possible games a year.

I'm not sure how I'd borrow a UHF receiver or scanner, but I'll check around for that too.

Thanks for the help. It looks like I'm on the right track. My only real question is if I should trust the Blonder-Tongue vs. the HDTV Primer gain measurements for the XG91. It would seem that the XG91 barely outperforms the Blonger-Tongue channel cut antenna on channel 18, though this guy seems to have gone for the B-T pretty quickly instead of something cheaper. Not a huge deal, but I'd rather put my $60-70 towards the B-T at $170 if it's the best out there. Looks like it might just be in the materials rather than the gain.

Larry1

Sep 27, 2010

That setup the link points to appears to be short distances to the towers (max 36 miles) and relatively high powered stations.
For DXing, you might not even get any signal on the signal meter for long distances without a pre-amp. Without a pre-amp I have nothing watchable, and most stations would not even showup on the meter.

Robz

Sep 27, 2010

Larry1 said:
Without a pre-amp I have nothing watchable, and most stations would not even showup on the meter.

I also get loss of reception when I remove the pre-amp. While strong major broadcasters are still receivable, distant channels and weaker LP digital broadcasters are lost. The LP ones are only 30 miles distant and line of sight. Without the preamp the total noise figure is about 5 db cable loss + 6 db receiver noise figure + 6 db splitter loss = 17 db. With the preamp the noise figure is reduced to about 1.3 db. If I add the antenna noise figure of 300 degrees K the overall noise figure is increased to about 3.8 db. Using RG11 the noise figure is slightly improved to about 3.7 db or a difference of 0.1 db. The pre-amp provides a significant improvement of 17-3.8 = 13.2 db and will make a clear difference in reception.
The values are from the standard noise function:
F = F1 + (F2-1)/G1 + (F3-1)/(G1*G2) + (F4-1)/(G1*G2*G3) ....
F is Noise, G is gain.

Where the conversion from db to F or G = 10^(db/10)

A nice on-line caculatr interface is System Noise Temperature And G/T Calculator

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Ramy

Supporting Founder

Last reply A moment ago · posted in The Sports Section

2026-27 NCAA College Football

Really excited for this season with Kentucky having a new coach and some really exciting recruits. Probably won't last long, but here's hoping this season is great.

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Yespage

Monday at 3:04 PM

You mean other than Miami being in the final last year... and Indiana being the only bye team to win a game?

Jimbo

Monday at 9:19 PM

Yespage said:
You mean other than Miami being in the final last year... and Indiana being the only bye team to win a game?

No, I was actually referring to outside of the Top 8, but should have been Top 12 ...

I guess I should have looked at the bracket from last year first ...

I'm more thinking about them trying to expect a 15 to beat a 5 seed or there abouts .

Ronnie-

Yesterday at 7:24 AM

Jimbo said:
I'm more thinking about them trying to expect a 15 to beat a 5 seed or there abouts .

I mean you get upsets all the time.

Just a couple of weeks ago. Unranked Florida knocked off number 7 texas. Unranked Auburn beat number 1 Georgia.

This week unranked Cincinnati beat number 8 texas Tech. Unranked UCF beat number 2 BYU.

No reason to think similar upsets wont happen in the playoffs where a low seed can upset a higher one.

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AZ.

Yesterday at 7:53 AM

Ronnie- said:
I mean you get upsets all the time.

Just a couple of weeks ago. Unranked Florida knocked off number 7 texas. Unranked Auburn beat number 1 Georgia.

This week unranked Cincinnati beat number 8 texas Tech. Unranked UCF beat number 2 BYU.

No reason to think similar upsets wont happen in the playoffs where a low seed can upset a higher one.

Yep, wonder why we rank the top 25 in 2 poles still? Do the ranking change much if they are unranked or have many loses? They sure do, any given day never take your opponent as a cake walk.....

Jimbo

Yesterday at 8:20 AM

Ronnie- said:
I mean you get upsets all the time.

Just a couple of weeks ago. Unranked Florida knocked off number 7 texas. Unranked Auburn beat number 1 Georgia.

This week unranked Cincinnati beat number 8 texas Tech. Unranked UCF beat number 2 BYU.

No reason to think similar upsets wont happen in the playoffs where a low seed can upset a higher one.

Correct, you Do get upsets from time to time ....however .
You Don't get teams UPSETTING teams for 5 weeks in a row.

They are trying to make this Basketball and its a far cry from the way that is played.

How long till they go to 32 teams ? Then they will say, well, the NFL is 32 teams, we can make more money that way .... except the NFL is 32 teams, that are a set number of teams and divisions, you don't have that in College ... oh but they will try.

They would have to choose what teams they would want in and thats it.
Hopefully that NEVER happens.

I can see the NCAA going away and the CFP taking that portion over and a Collective Bargaining agreement coming in the not to distant future.

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rvvaquero

Yesterday at 8:45 AM

The problem with rankings and playoffs is that they are designed to hype the game and make money. Period.

The only reason that BYU and Texas Tech were upsets is that they were hyped up in the standings in the first place. I love watching BYU and Bear Bachmeier. They are a fun and talented team, but not nearly so strong, fast, big, and skilled as a true top ten team. Does anyone truly believe they could compete with the likes of Georgia, Ohio State, Indiana, Alabama, etc.? Yet, they were ranked above those teams.

Each year, there are 10 to 12 teams who truly could compete for the championship if it depended on winning more than one game in a playoff. Including teams like James Madison, Tulane, BYU, etc. in a playoff has nothing to do with determining a national champion. It's just about money.

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Ronnie-

A moment ago

Jimbo said:
Correct, you Do get upsets from time to time ....however .

Yes. As show.

Jimbo said:
You Don't get teams UPSETTING teams for 5 weeks in a row.

.

But that wasn't what your stated argument was though.

I mean if you drag it out, no team even a favorite is gonna win every game 20 weeks in a row.

With the parity in college football now, who knows who can beat anyone at any given time?

This season and last have shown it might not be the ones we think that might win it all that will win it all.

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MartyDe

Last reply 46 minutes ago · posted in Over the Air Television By RabbitEars.Info

ATSC 3 converter boxes

Interesting article about the work being done to develope an ATSC 3 converter box. Yes it does mention affordable.

Pearl TV Issues Progress Report on Low-Cost 3.0 Converters in Advance of NAB Show New York

Group has secured lower pricing from key tech players to make less costly boxes available

www.tvtechnology.com

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navychop

Oct 20, 2026

DEATH TO NEXGEN!

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primestar31

Oct 21, 2026

navychop said:
DEATH TO NEXGEN!

It's dead, they just don't know it yet. They killed it by forcing DRM on it, and that TOTALLY botched implementing it.

There is absolutely NO compelling reason for anybody to switch to ATSC3.0. They only want it as a total and complete money grab.

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Mister B

Thursday at 7:43 AM

What bothers me is the total waste of broadcasting spectrum in this very crowded market. It has been almost three years now since KFOX converted their broadcast tower to ATSC 3.0 and moved all of their channels to other towers causing noticeable degradation of the picture quality.
I have a Sony TV with 3.0 capabilities but still use the 1.0 version of locals due to the fact that one or all of the 3.0 channels are often missing or unwatchable. In this city of 800K I doubt that more than a few hundred even know about ATSC 3.0.
The only thing that could motivate me to be interested in 3.0 would be if all of the minor networks (diginets) could be in at least 720P rather than blurry ultra-compressed 480i.
Three years is long enough to waste one of the few available RF frequencies in the area for this trial.
It is time to either move on with this experiment or call it quits.

navychop

Thursday at 4:31 PM

Mister B said:
In this city of 800K I doubt that more than a few hundred even know about ATSC 3.0.

They might notice the hand going into their pocket for their wallet.

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navychop

Thursday at 4:31 PM

Mister B said:
It is time to either move on with this experiment or call it quits.

QFT. Of course, my preference involves a curb and some kicking.

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slow_poke_pete

Yesterday at 5:37 PM

primestar31 said:
It's dead, they just don't know it yet. They killed it by forcing DRM on it, and that TOTALLY botched implementing it.

There is absolutely NO compelling reason for anybody to switch to ATSC3.0. They only want it as a total and complete money grab.

WHAT ABOUT THE INTERNET PART OF IT. NO ONE WANTS A BOX CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET EITHER.

navychop

Yesterday at 9:47 PM

Cough, cough. COVID vaccine implants.

:oldlaugh

Reactions: HIFI

Foxbat

46 minutes ago

navychop said:
Cough, cough. COVID vaccine implants.

That would be handy. Download the latest RNA snippets that can be updated over 5G and no more shots! You're a Genius!

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dishstaller

Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter

Last reply Today at 6:03 PM · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Is it click bait or is it real

Pretty cool.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18iLQXklJuU

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Foxbat

Today at 6:03 PM

Meta Clickbait, clicking and watching the Video on Clickbait.

dishstaller

Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter

Last reply Today at 6:01 PM · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Well crap....Donnie Iris died today

RIP dude. Always liked his music. He was 83

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH5Arbm47IQ

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dishstaller

Yesterday at 1:03 AM

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFmPEgNuELM

FTA4PA

Yesterday at 10:20 AM

R.I.P.

Mr Tony

Yesterday at 10:28 AM

R.I.P.

Foxbat

Today at 6:01 PM

Rest in Peace…

osu1991

Pub Member / Supporter

Last reply Today at 5:59 PM · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Susan Saint James, Emmy-Winning Star of 'Kate & Allie' and 'McMillan & Wife,' Dies at 80

Susan Saint James, Emmy-Winning Star of ‘Kate & Allie’ and ‘McMillan & Wife,’ Dies at 80

Susan Saint James, the Emmy-winning actress who starred in "Kate & Allie," died Monday after being diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. She was 80.

variety.com

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FTA4PA

Yesterday at 8:53 PM

R.I.P.

dishstaller

Today at 10:09 AM

My Mom was a huge McMillan & Wife fan.

RIP

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dfergie

Today at 1:03 PM

Mcmillan and wife was where I remember her from, R.I.P. ...

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Mr Tony

Today at 1:18 PM

R.I.P.

Foxbat

Today at 5:59 PM

Rest in Peace… I had forgotten she was Kate in "Kate and Allie", teamed with Jane Curtin.

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Scott Greczkowski

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge

Last reply Today at 5:54 PM · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Song Name Game Part 3!

Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne

Get it?

An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....

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Bobby

Today at 11:20 AM

If Love Must Go - Dobie Gray

FTA4PA

Today at 1:58 PM

Drift Away - Dobie Gray

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long_time_Dish

Today at 3:24 PM

Throwing It All Away - Genesis

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dishstaller

Today at 4:47 PM

All I Need is a Miracle - Mike + The Mechanics

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gms49ers

Today at 5:54 PM

Sweet Miracle - Rush

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TheForce

Supporting Founder Pub Member / Supporter

Last reply Today at 5:39 PM · posted in The Phone & Tablet Zone

Apple Event September 2026

Apple Fall Hardware Event takes place today, September 9, 2026, at 10:00 a.m. PT / 1:00 p.m. ET. It marks the debut of new CEO John Ternus and the expected reveal of Apple's first foldable phone.

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Foxbat

Sunday at 7:05 PM

IFixIt has published their Teardown and they had some positive things to say about the iPhone Duo. It still showed some dust ingress into the hinge assembly but seemed otherwise well-sealed.

But with a considerable number of reports of the main screen dying with similar failures, AppleCare+ should be a no-brainer for this phone.

slow_poke_pete

Sunday at 8:32 PM

Foxbat said:
IFixIt has published their Teardown and they had some positive things to say about the iPhone Duo. It still showed some dust ingress into the hinge assembly but seemed otherwise well-sealed.

But with a considerable number of reports of the main screen dying with similar failures, AppleCare+ should be a no-brainer for this phone.

hope you have apple care a screen job is 1000.00

. can we say over priced garbage!!!

slow_poke_pete

Monday at 4:36 PM

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv0BssMerjA

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harshness

Yesterday at 10:17 AM

Gone are the days when Apple "perfects" what debuted years earlier on an Android phone.

comfortably_numb

Yesterday at 11:49 AM

harshness said:
Gone are the days when Apple "perfects" what debuted years earlier on an Android phone.

Or better yet, innovate something "completely revolutionary!"

slow_poke_pete

Today at 5:39 PM

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6x_VHuZW2k

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TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Today at 5:32 PM · posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Intelligent Machines 894

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSBKxtzFi0Y

Direct YouTube Link - Intelligent Machines 894
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed

0 Replies · 9 views

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tparker

Last reply Today at 5:17 PM · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

"Bonus View" Channel List

I was bewildered with all the new DISH TV "Bonus View" channels, so I put together a web page table with all the info I could find. It's at:

https://anythingpeaceful.org/dishtv/DISH_TV_Bonus_View_Channels.html

Here's a partial screenshot of the table, as sorted by Channel Name. (You can click on a column header to sort.)

If you have any corrections or suggestions, please post here.

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tparker

Sep 3, 2026

Paranormal Files back in business:

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tparker

Sep 23, 2026

Two new Bonus View channels Added today:

And two Removed:

My full list is at: DISH TV "Bonus View" Channels

Thanks to Pat for the heads up.

Reactions: syphix and charlesrshell

tparker

Sep 30, 2026

One Bonus View channel added today. And one correction (on my part):

One Removed:

My full list is at: DISH TV "Bonus View" Channels

BTW, not a Bonus View item, but there was a temporary channel 304 Spooktacular added, I imagine just for the Halloween season.

Thanks again to Pat for the many tips.

Reactions: charlesrshell

tparker

Oct 21, 2026

Three new Bonus View channels today:

My full list is at: DISH TV "Bonus View" Channels

As always, thanks to Pat for the tips.

Reactions: Tampa8, charlesrshell and Bobby

tparker

Today at 5:17 PM

Four Bonus View channels removed today:

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Van

Last reply Today at 5:06 PM · posted in What's Cooking?

Whats for breakfast?

Who says dinner or lunch has to be the only good meals of the day?

Honey butter grits with scrambled eggs and grilled boneless pork ribs on flakey biscuits washed down with cranberry juice.

6635 Replies · 380138 views

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TRG

Thursday at 4:10 PM

2 egg burrito with bacon and a side of hashbrowns. Coffee.

TRG

Sunday at 1:40 PM

Breakfast Quesadillas. Grilled flour tortilla filled with scrambled eggs, hash browns, chopped green chile, cheddar & Jack cheese and bacon. Coffee.

Bobby

Today at 1:53 PM

Taco omelette. 3 eggs, taco meat from yesterday, diced green chilis, cheddar cheese, chopped red onion, avocado, black olives, chopped tomato, La Victoria Salsa Brava.

This one was really, really good!

Reactions: TRG and dfergie

dfergie

Today at 3:35 PM

Thought I was getting a Chorizo and egg burrito (marker had rubbed off)but was a roast beef/potato I made up before hunting this morning.
Btw every morning at camp I cooked my homemade Chorizo and scrambled eggs plus sausage side while my brother brought bacon. (they liked both the beef and pork versions)

Reactions: TRG

TRG

Today at 5:06 PM

dfergie said:
Thought I was getting a Chorizo and egg burrito (marker had rubbed off)but was a roast beef/potato I made up before hunting this morning.
Btw every morning at camp I cooked my homemade Chorizo and scrambled eggs plus sausage side while my brother brought bacon. (they liked both the beef and pork versions)

I had a chorizo and egg burrito for you. With lots of green chile and cheese of course.

Reactions: dfergie

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Charleston, SC installers & DXing

2026-27 NCAA College Football

ATSC 3 converter boxes

Pearl TV Issues Progress Report on Low-Cost 3.0 Converters in Advance of NAB Show New York

Is it click bait or is it real

Well crap....Donnie Iris died today

Susan Saint James, Emmy-Winning Star of 'Kate & Allie' and 'McMillan & Wife,' Dies at 80

Susan Saint James, Emmy-Winning Star of ‘Kate & Allie’ and ‘McMillan & Wife,’ Dies at 80

Song Name Game Part 3!

Apple Event September 2026

Intelligent Machines 894

"Bonus View" Channel List

Whats for breakfast?