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Scott Greczkowski
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge
Last reply · posted in DISH Network Support Forum
Logitech Revue with GoogleTV – A Diamond in the Rough
Review by Scott Greczkowski​

A few years ago while writing for MultiChannel News I said the Internet is the future of television, and boy did I get a lot of flak from people for saying that.

It has been a few years since I wrote that and now the first real merging of the Internet and television is beginning to happen. GoogleTV is the platform that is the first to merge your main television service (whether it's cable or satellite) together with the Internet and do it all using only one input on your TV.

The first consumer GoogleTV appliance is just hitting the markets from Logitech and it is called the Revue. Thanks to the folks at DISH Network I was sent a Revue to review.

revue1.png

When I received my Logitech Revue I was surprised how small it was, I found it hard to believe that there was a keyboard and the Revue unit in the small box. But in the neatly packed box there it was the wireless keyboard, a HDMI cable, power adapter, power cord, IR blaster, envelope with setup instructions and the Revue unit itself.

Hookup of the Revue was simple. I unplugged the HDMI from the back of my TV and plugged it into the HDMI in port on the Revue, then took the included HDMI cable and hooked it to the HDMI out port on the Revue and connected it to the back of my television. I then hooked up an Ethernet cable from my hub to the Revue for its internet connection. (I could have used WIFI as well, but I chose to hardwire it to the net since I had the connection available.) I plugged in the power adapter and flipped the power switch on, on the back of the wireless keyboard. Within a few seconds I saw the Logitech Revue logo on my screen, a smile came across my face in delight.

Shortly after seeing the Revue logo I saw a GoogleTV logo and then was welcomed and taken to setup. The setup was a 12 step process that took about 15 minutes to complete, but was simple enough that anyone could do it.

Part of the process was setting up my DISH Network DVR to work with the REVUE. In the setup it saw all my DISH Network DVR's on my network then asked me which one I was using with the Revue. A few seconds later I saw a picture from my DVR on the screen with a code that I was asked to type into the box on the Revue. Once the code was entered my DVR was now paired with the Revue.

The Revue's wireless keyboard can control your satellite or cable receiver, your television and your AV receiver. For this review I did not use an AV Receiver as I had the Revue hooked directly to my television.

After a brief software download I was welcomed and shown a video welcoming me. After the welcome video displayed I was then taken to the main menu and given a few tips. After I went through all 5 tips I was left at the main menu on my own. I must admit when I got here I was nervous and unsure what to do next. Then, like a kid in a candy store, I then clicked on a bunch of stuff trying everything out. There was so much to do it was almost overwhelming for me.

The first stop was checking the DISH Network integration with GoogleTV. I hit the button to put the Revue in live TV mode and was taken to live video from my DISH Network 722k. My wife commented to me that the picture looked a little fuzzier than normal. I unplugged the HDMI from the Revue and plugged it into my TV directly and noticed the picture was sharper coming direct from my 722k. Then I plugged it back into the GoogleTV and again noticed it was not as clear. Then I looked at my TV screen and hit the info button on my TV remote and noticed that the GoogleTV was up-converting all the 1080i video to 1080p. I went into the settings and turned the resolution down to 1080i and my picture was once again crisp and sharp.

revue2.png

Once we had the picture cleared up we then tried the integration with the 722k. First thing we did was hit the search button and searched for more information about the show we were watching, which at the time was Mythbusters. All kinds of information came back on the show plus links for watching other episodes of the show including direct links to purchase old episodes from Amazon.com. We played with this feature for awhile looking up different shows, the stars of the shows, and enjoyed reading a number of WIKI articles about the show we were interested in. It was a fun feature.

The next thing we did was hit the home button and scrolled down to the QUEUE option, here we could see all recordings on the 722k and even all the recordings on the external hard drive! We could select any show from the list and it would start playing instantly.

Another DISH integration feature was seeing what's on, it gave you listings for all the channels, plus you could see what was on by category. Additionally you could set timers on your DVR from the Revue. DISH Network is charging $4 a month extra to have this functionality.

The Logitech Revue comes with a number of built in Applications, such as CNBC Real Time, the Google Chrome Web Browser, Logitech Media Player, Netflix and Pandora. The number of application is limited at the moment but this will change next year when you can install apps from the Google Apps store. The best app of the lot is the CNBC Real-Time which shows the power of having an internet connected television is about. The CNBC Real-Time app lets you check your stocks in an easy to use interface plus if your stock is talked about on CNBC next to the quote you can click on it and watch video of them talking about your stock choice.

revue3.png

I was highly disappointed with the Netflix application. I have used Netflix on a lot of devices and the version of Netflix on the Revue is the worst I have used. First, it only lets you view shows or movies which you have selected to watch in your instant view queue. You cannot add movies or shows from within the Netflix application. If you want to add shows or movies you need to exit the app and go into Google Chrome and add to your queue via the Netflix website. Secondly, the picture quality from the Netflix app is the worst quality I have experienced from any Netflix enabled appliance. Just to make sure there was nothing wrong with my internet connection I tried Netflix on my PS3, my ROKU and my WDTV Live Plus boxes, and all of them blew away the Netflix quality on the Revue. The good news is that this is a software issue and I have a feeling we will see the Netflix app updated to match the other Netflix enabled clients in short order.

The most disappointing application for me was the Logitech Media Player. The Logitech Media Player allows you to play multimedia files from your network or attached USB storage. In my tests the Revue was unable to play most of the video files I threw at it. To be fair it was stated on the video playback screen that "Video playback is now in beta. Some video formats are not supported." Most of my audio files played fine however, but I found no way to create a playlist or do a shuffle play of songs. With a few thousand songs in my collection I don't want to hear them played one after another in alphabetical order. Because most of my music is from iTunes the Revue did not display the album artwork for any of my songs. Again like the Netflix app, this is a software issue so I expect it to get updated and be more usable in the near future.

There is also a basic Twitter application built in and while basic it gets the job done. You are supposed to be able to press the star button on the keyboard and tweet what you´re watching however every time I tried in the tweet box it would just display the 4 letter abbreviation of the channels I was watching (i.e. DISC for Discovery channel) or it wouldn't work at all.

There are two separate on demand services available currently through the Revue, from Amazon.COM and from DISH Network. The Amazon VOD was very well laid out and friendly on the eyes, while the DISH Network was highly blank with very limited selection. The DISH Cinema listings just showed the title of the movie and under the title said "FVOD." Selecting a movie from DISH Cinema showed you a very brief description and clicking on it again asked you to confirm your order and showed you the price. There was no preview of the movie nor was there an expanded description of the movie. I don't get how DISH Network keeps managing to put out such a terrible VOD product, it is my feeling this is something the company should excel at... and this is not just a problem on the GoogleTV platform it is like this on all of their VOD enable devices.

revue4.png

An interesting section on the Revue is a selection called Spotlight. Spotlight is a menu of websites which have been customized for GoogleTV enabled devices. The best one is a site called TuneIn Radio. TuneIn Radio lets you listen to live audio streams from many radio stations from around the world! TuneIn Radio is quick to connect and makes it easy to find the station you want to listen to. The interface is designed for the GoogleTV and works extremely well! This is one of my favorite sites on the Revue box. Another very good GoogleTV optimized site is CNET. CNET offers lots of technology news and reviews. The interface is clean and easy to use and the content is very good!

In the center of the Spotlight menu is an icon for HBO GO. When you click on it, it tells you that you can Sign Up for HBO Go and it's FREE with your HBO subscription. I was like COOL so I clicked the sign up button and was then asked to select my TV provider. The only selections were Comcast Cable and Verizon Fios. I selected other since I have DISH Network and got a message that HBO Go was not available from my television provider. I was kind of upset about that.

In my trials of the Logitech Revue I also used the new Harmony Remote App for the Android platform on my Sprint Evo. This app let me control all of the functions of my Logitech Revue on my phone. Many times I found myself using my phone more than the keyboard. It also has some cool features as well, for example if I am on my phone watching a YouTube video I can press a button and send the video to be shown on my TV screen. In addition it also gave me full control of all functions on my television.

OVERALL THOUGHTS


I said it before I will say it again, Internet television is the future of television, and I truly believe that Logitech Revue is a diamond in the rough.

I do feel that the GoogleTV platform was rushed to the market in order to be available for the holiday season. The software feels unfinished and this is very noticeable as you try applications such as Netflix and the Media player. But the Revue is usable in this state and will continue getting better as time goes on.

The hardware itself however works and works well. The keyboard was well thought out and is comfortable to use, however for TV watching I found it easier and more convenient to using my phone as a remote to control things. The only time I used the keyboard is when I was doing a lot of searching or browsing the Internet. The keyboard can also control your TV and AV receiver which is a plus. I found myself grabbing the keyboard a few times when the volume on the TV was too loud.

The DISH Network integration is neat, however I don't find myself using them that often. If I want to look at the guide, set a timer or see what´s on my DVR it´s much easier to use the DISH Network remote then use the Google TV interface. I feel that the $4 a month charge for this integration is too high. I would consider paying for it if it was 99 cents, but I feel $4 is way too high for what it does. Without paying the fee you can still search and control your DISH receiver but you don't get the TV listings, the list of what´s on your DVR or set timers. For me I am ok with that.

I know that certain networks are blocking GoogleTV appliances at the moment and that didn't affect me at all, although I would love to see them add Hulu support in the future.

My wish list for future features are as follows:

- GMAIL application with on screen notifications of new mail
- Email support application for external email with on screen notification of new mail
- On screen notification of new tweets from Twitter
- Support for more video types including ISO files.

I feel even with the software flaws at the moment if you get the $179 deal from DISH Network it is still worth it. Do not think of the Logitech Revue as the next generation of WebTV as it is so much more than that. It does a lot today and will do so much more tomorrow. Even with its flaws the device is extremely usable and will get better over time.

I believe that the Logitech Revue is a diamond in the rough and over time you will watch it get polished right in front of your eyes. The Logitech Revue with GoogleTV is the future of television.
929 Replies · 225691 views
meStevo
Nothing at CES was encouraing to me, the Marvell demo boxes that will be powering all the future GoogleTV boxes were just as slow and apparently under powered as what we have now.

Google is making an announcement tomorrow about Google TV, I expect it will be new hardware or a new refresh/direction for the initiative.

Edit: looks like maybe everyone was expecting too much from the platform that has always promised so much... might just be an updated Youtube app. http://googletv.blogspot.com/2012/02/new-updates-to-youtube-for-google-tv.html
TheKrell
This is their big announcement?
GaryPen
They have no conception of scale there. EVERYTHING is a big deal to them. (until they get bored with it or can't make it work. Then, it just sits ignored in the bottom of their toy box.)
meStevo
Yeah, it's like a Youtube product manager got ahold of the Google TV Facebook to promote the app and posted a generic 'big announcement, yay!' message. Might be a big deal for them, but it's not in the grand scheme of things for the platform. What a disappointment.

Google is testing some sort of appliance though, will be interested in what that might be. They've gotten a 2nd approval I think for 100+ in-home tests in employees homes for it.
ScottChez
TheKrell said:
Yup, that works. I was looking at a live view of downtown Denver, since the news isn't on right now. Fullscreen works, and it didn't look half bad other than being kind of hazy. Perhaps their canned videos are compressed too much for my 42" screen.

Wow. KUSA TV. 9News looks to be in HD on google tv streaming on the web
"MysteryMan"
Pub Member / Supporter Cutting Edge
Last reply · posted in Computers and Gadgets
I created this thread on the original Edgecutter Cutting Edge Forums site. It's simply a place for those to review the latest software available for those using Windows 10 and Windows 11. To date it has received 112,559 views. I have been asked by staff to continue this thread here.
520 Replies · 47131 views
EarDemon
If it wasn't for what I want, I wouldn't need any of this.

Do I need a collection of handheld radios, scanners and speed enforcement countermeasures? Nope, but I want them. Very little, if any of the software used to interface with these devices is available on Linux.
WhiteBeard
If it wasn't for what I want, I wouldn't need any of this.

Do I need a collection of handheld radios, scanners and speed enforcement countermeasures? Nope, but I want them. Very little, if any of the software used to interface with these devices is available on Linux.
To each there own but I've found that Windows can't do much more than Linux can. Can't have everything. ☹️
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EarDemon
To each there own but I've found that Windows can't do much more than Linux can. Can't have everything. ☹️
For niche use cases, yes I agree. Kali for ethical hacking and security testing, and running a Cacti server for network monitoring are the two things I have experience in. Plus thousands and thousands of other things, but for every day use I just can't see it. The owner of the GMRS repeater that I pay to access is changing the Tx DPL tones tomorrow, while Chirp is available on Linux, the software to program my MXT500 is not.

I run Fedora and Ubuntu in VMWare, honestly I don't care much for the UI of either of them and I don't feel like spending days/weeks to customize the UI to make it look Windows-like when I could just use Windows. The cartoonish dock at the bottom of the screen reminds me of Apple products.
EarDemon
I have no OEM bloat, on CTO devices where I can access the drive, I order it with the smallest allowed drive and crack the device open throw the factory drive in the garbage and put in my own WD Black and install Windows from bootable media. For Windows bloat, I install Windows using the English - World option which limits preinstalled MS bloat.

Windows and Office features I wish to block, like CoPilot and Cortana, macro enabled Office files and others are blocked with GPOs.

Between keeping all software up to date, doing firmware updates, putting IoT devices on a separate VLAN, running Symantec Endpoint (say what you want about it, it's been good to me) and practicing safe hex, I'm vigilant but not paranoid about security.

With NVMe SSDs, my cold boot up time on all devices is under 30 secs as well. Fast boot disabled, BitLocker drive encryption enabled.

I have nothing against Linux, been paying with it on and off since 2004ish, it's just not the right solution for me.
HipKat
it's just not the right solution for me.
As I said above, and, FWIW, I run Win11 Pro and Arch on separate 250 GB NVME drives, using F8 to select which I boot to, with a 1TB SSD for storage, accessible to both OSs and a third formatted Nvme I want to use to learn Kali. It was much faster to setup Arch than it was to strip down Windows. Windows still takes much longer to boot.

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harshness
I don't care much for the UI of either of them and I don't feel like spending days/weeks to customize the UI to make it look Windows-like when I could just use Windows.
What is so fantabulous about the Windows UI? By many accounts, it has been going downhill since Windows 7.

There are Linux desktops that offer Windows or Mac UIs, yet you don't hear much chatter about them outside of questions about when the creators might get sued.
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EarDemon
What is so fantabulous about the Windows UI?
Because it's what I prefer. I know I've said this a few times, I use Open Shell to give me the cascading start menu a la WIN 95 and NT4.0. The only reason I went from Windows Vista to 7 back in the day was because of Classic Shell. I cannot stand anything other than the OG start menu from 30+ years ago. I'm using ExplorerPatcher to give me Windows 10 UI elements of the taskbar and right click context menus.

If you could take a look at how I set up Windows 95, you'd find many similarities to how I use 11.
EarDemon
I could probably use that as a starting point, but I don't like the full size icons. If you have to click on each folder that's also a no-go for me, it has to be cascading.

I used to have Peppermint Linux in a VM, that was about as close as I could get to recreating a Windows NT4.0 style of menu structure, but I could never get it to scale properly in VMWare on a 4K display and eventually gave up.

Whatever the boot up time it's fine with me. The longest part of my bootup is the HP SureStart BIOS integrity check. Once that is done, it's only a few more seconds. I haven't done this reg tweak yet since the reformat, but I switched the bootup animation to the Windows 10 style spinning circle of dots, and it's two and a half rotations. I can live with that.
dfergie
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU!
Last reply · posted in TV Shows
Hard getting used to the new younger Gibbs, Mark Harmons son had the right look but I understand he didn't want the role.
Still I'm enjoying, pretty good job with Franks.
66 Replies · 4197 views
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dfergie
Really good one with OG Gibbs bookending it...
R
Really good one with OG Gibbs bookending it...
Will the OG Gibbs be on NCIS or will Tony be on NCIS Origins?
dfergie
Tony was there at the end of the episode with Gibbs.
R
Tony was there at the end of the episode with Gibbs.
I saw Gibbs walk into the door, but I did not see Tony.
Jimbo
Tony was there at the end of the episode with Gibbs.
Tony was Not in this episode ... you may remember Gibbs walking into the office and those around Welcomed him home, Voices only.

If you also watch the Mothership, Tony has been in that one ...
dfergie
Tony was Not in this episode ... you may remember Gibbs walking into the office and those around Welcomed him home, Voices only.

If you also watch the Mothership, Tony has been in that one ...
I must have seen that in previews
.
osu1991
Pub Member / Supporter
· posted in TV Shows
0 Replies · 2 views
Scott Greczkowski
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne


Get it?


An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....
68494 Replies · 2670306 views
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Bobby
Kiss - The Art Of Noise
long_time_Dish
Beautiful Noise - Neil Diamond
sdfntx
White Noise - Jessie Baylin
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dishstaller
White Rabbit - Jefferson Airplane
long_time_Dish
White Sun - The Doobie Brothers
dishstaller
Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in Internet Television (IPTV) Discussion Forum
Wasn't exactly sure where to post this. Just had a customer come in inquiring about internet. He has HughesNet and had heard good things about mine. He asked if we provided email addresses and it kinda caught me off guard. I said he should be able to keep whatever email he had been using....my sister in law is still using a BellSouth email addy and they haven't been around here for many years. He said he had gotten a letter from HughesNet stating that they had until Nov 16th to save, move, forward, whatever, their Hughesnet emails because they would lose them after that date.

I have never heard of a company simply mass-deleting email accounts (the customer still has his HughesNet service). From what I understand, in the past, the company who was ditching their email service simply sold the customer base to a company like Google.

Anyone else getting this letter. He said he would show it to me tomorrow when I go out there and set up his internet.
7 Replies · 112 views
Foxbat
Doing a Google of the HughesNet Email notice, it seems that HughesNet has been trying to eliminate hosting emails since 2019. And with HughesNet filing Chapter 11 back in August, it would be a smart move to switch to a more stable Email provider. Even AT&T farmed out their Email to Yahoo! years ago.

SpaceX's Starlink and the Cellular 5G Home Internet solutions have pretty much relegated HughesNet and its high latency, low bandwidth Internet service to History. If Earth had shorter days, maybe a Geostationary Internet Solution might have stood a fighting chance…
navychop
If Earth had shorter days,

Wouldn't we then die of old age sooner?

🙄
Foxbat
Wouldn't we then die of old age sooner?

🙄
Still the same number of years, just more Sunsets…😉
K
Even AT&T farmed out their Email to Yahoo! years ago.

I still have one of those although I've been trying to wean myself off it.
JSheridan
Among my many email accounts I still have a .netscape.net which AOL assimilated a while back.
EarDemon
Yep, I got the notification a few days ago. I'm not totally surprised.

Never used the address for anything, so no big loss to me.
meStevo
Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in TV Shows
Starting a thread klang !

After an amazing first 2 seasons and an 8 episode 3rd season still coming this year, season 4 has now been greenlit.

Keri Russell Wow GIF by NETFLIX
9 Replies · 927 views
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K
Probably starting season 3 tonight. :D
meStevo
Finished it this evening. General impressions with no story spoilers, but will spoil it anyways as it just came out today.

Not quite as impactful of a finale as past seasons I thought, we'll see how far down the rabbit hole things go as the latest plot twists and turns unravel. Thought this season had a full episode or two too much rom-com style disagreements, but it was more or less paid off later. Ultimately didn't enjoy that being more of a throughline in the stories this season compared to what I remember of the priors.

My least favorite of the 3 seasons, but still very good. Really wonder how far they'll go with things, hard to see a nuclear attack or something ever actually happening. They just had a better story to tell and more meaningful beats in the prior season.
KAB
KAB
Not in a hurry to watch it this time.
K
Finished season 3 last night. Still one of my favorite shows.

Anyone else wonder if there might be something else going on with Callum? Seems to me he has too much access to Russian intelligence.
meStevo
One episode into season 4 that dropped today...

Jon Stewart Popcorn GIF
Bobby
Supporting Founder Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in DISH Network Support Forum
This thread is a place to discuss the 4K events that appear on channel 540. We are getting, at this point, one college football game a week. Let's hope there is more coming.
1930 Replies · 298816 views
jsmit86
Regarding the no sound bug when watching 4K HDR events or DVR recordings with Dolby set to ON:
I got rolled back to H708 last night after getting an email from the support team. It fixed the bug.

The email indicated that they believed they found the issue, and if the fix works, they would roll it out via an update in the coming weeks.

So... we should see that bug exterminated in the near future.
long_time_Dish
148-04 says the NASCAR race on at noon on Sunday. Be interesting to see if it is.
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Bobby
MLB, Brewers at Dodgers, Thursday 10-15, 6PM PDT, Channel 148-02.
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Foxbat
MLB, Brewers at Dodgers, Thursday 10-15, 6PM PDT, Channel 148-02.
CFB, Notre Dame at BYU, Saturday 10-27, 4:30PM PDT, Channel 148-03.
CFB, Ohio State at Indiana, Saturday 10-17, 9AM PDT, Channel 148-01.
CFB, Arizona State at Texas Tech, Saturday 10-17, 12:30PM PDT, Channel 148-01.
Hmmm, I'm not seeing anything like those events in our Hopper 3 guide for tonight or Saturday.🙁

I went into the Tools menu and requested a Guide Update. I'll try looking at it after the update completes.

edit — I now have the 148-01 4KFox events for Saturday, but not anything for 148-02 or 148-03 which don't even show as available channels. I do have 148-04 4KUSA.
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Bobby
Hmmm, I'm not seeing anything like those events in our Hopper 3 guide for tonight or Saturday.🙁

I went into the Tools menu and requested a Guide Update. I'll try looking at it after the update completes.

edit — I now have the 148-01 4KFox events for Saturday, but not anything for 148-02 or 148-03 which don't even show as available channels. I do have 148-04 4KUSA.
As I recall you have the Flex package. Do you sub to multisport? -02 is FS1 and -03 is ESPN. -01 is Fox so you would get that if you sub to locals.
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Bobby
As I recall you have the Flex package. Do you sub to multisport? -02 is FS1 and -03 is ESPN. -01 is Fox so you would get that if you sub to locals.
As an edit, you need to sub to the National Action Pack at $12 a month to receive those channels.
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TWiT Tech Podcast Network
· posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network
0 Replies · 6 views
TWiT Tech Podcast Network
· posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network
0 Replies · 3 views
Foxbat
Supporting Founder Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in Internet Television (IPTV) Discussion Forum
Apple has finally released their Apple TV 4K with built-in Siri and a microphone so it can respond to your queries even if you don't have the remote. It also increases in price, to $299. I had been planning on updating my current Apple TV 4K streamers, but that's $600 for the two of them, and that's a pass at this point.

At $299, it had better come with 256 GB of Storage, Gigabit (or better) Ethernet, the latest HDMI tech and standards, and one year of free Apple One. But it probably won't…
13 Replies · 155 views
Ronnie-
Meh. The 4Ks I have will do everything that these do that I need them to do.


Which that's most tech these days for anything released the last four to five years.


It's honestly a testament to how good the previous gen Apple TVs were and are.
navychop
I've saved a boatload of money!
navychop
It's honestly a testament to how good the previous gen Apple TVs were and are.

Don't tell them that. They'll adopt planned obsolescence.
Foxbat
The only thing I can see that is compelling is the AV1 decoding done in the A19's hardware instead of the current ATV4K's processor.
navychop
Outside of gaming, would Joe Sixpack notice any difference?
KAB
KAB
Outside of gaming, would Joe Sixpack notice any difference?
Not a bit. IMO, apple's are slow to boot up. Time is about the same with 1st gen and 3rd. Roku runs rings around them in that department. I only stick I with the Apple tv's is the Apple infrastructure, which has it's definite advantages. But $300 is not worth sticking with it. Later, Apple!
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