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gscobe

Last reply Jun 7, 2011 · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

Popularity of Mt2 off air tuner?

Hi - I was wondering if the MT2 off-air tuner is very popular - is Dish shipping a lot of these. Was thinking of adding one to the set up but if they're being phased out, may reconsider....

Thanks!

75 Replies · 7238 views

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navychop

Jun 5, 2011

OK. Look here and here.

1080 60i produces 30 full frames per second, as defined in ATSC standards. 720 60p produces 60 full frames per second.

I think we can all agree that what we'd really like to see is 1080 60p, which is not an ATSC standard but would be gangbusters for PQ, but cost twice the bandwidth. This can be done on Blu-ray, satellite or cable, but with today's technology we cannot fit 1080 60p (with acceptable PQ) into the 6 MHz/19.4 Mbps television broadcasting channel used in the US today. Not even with MPEG-4, which also is not part of the ATSC standard.

Interlacing only came into existence because early TVs needed a work around to produce the given resolution of the day, due to hardware limitations. If you freeze frame an interlaced picture that has motion in it, you will see an offset in every other display line (ignoring certain other processing).

But with various conversions, limited source capture (1440, anyone?), processing and transmission, etc etc, there simply is no single answer as to which is better. And as stated, if you have a 1080p set, everything fed to it will be displayed 1080p. Whether your 1080 TV can better convert a 720 source than say, a ViP receiver, is up in the air. There is no native pass thru on any current Dish receiver that I am aware of.

Jhon69

Jun 6, 2011

navychop said:
OK. Look here and here.

1080 60i produces 30 full frames per second, as defined in ATSC standards. 720 60p produces 60 full frames per second.

I think we can all agree that what we'd really like to see is 1080 60p, which is not an ATSC standard but would be gangbusters for PQ, but cost twice the bandwidth. This can be done on Blu-ray, satellite or cable, but with today's technology we cannot fit 1080 60p (with acceptable PQ) into the 6 MHz/19.4 Mbps television broadcasting channel used in the US today. Not even with MPEG-4, which also is not part of the ATSC standard.

Interlacing only came into existence because early TVs needed a work around to produce the given resolution of the day, due to hardware limitations. If you freeze frame an interlaced picture that has motion in it, you will see an offset in every other display line (ignoring certain other processing).

But with various conversions, limited source capture (1440, anyone?), processing and transmission, etc etc, there simply is no single answer as to which is better. And as stated, if you have a 1080p set, everything fed to it will be displayed 1080p. Whether your 1080 TV can better convert a 720 source than say, a ViP receiver, is up in the air. There is no native pass thru on any current Dish receiver that I am aware of.

I guess maybe that's why Vizio HDTVs are cheaper priced? because even though my HDTV says 1080p everything is not being upconverted to 1080p.

SaltiDawg

Jun 6, 2011

Jhon69 said:
I guess maybe that's why Vizio HDTVs are cheaper priced? because even though my HDTV says 1080p everything is not being upconverted to 1080p.

If the native display resolution of your TV is 1080p, it must, by definition, display a 1080p signal. If the input to the TV is other then 1080p, it must upconvert that signal to 1080p in order to display it.

Jhon69

Jun 6, 2011

SaltiDawg said:
If the native display resolution of your TV is 1080p, it must, by definition, display a 1080p signal. If the input to the TV is other then 1080p, it must upconvert that signal to 1080p in order to display it.

It's the HDTV's System Information that is in conflict with that statement,like I said maybe this is why this Vizio M550SV LED-LCD HDTV was cheaper.

But when I watch a Blue Ray Movie the System Information screen reports the picture is 1080p.

Regular DVD's the SI says it is 1080i which makes me happy because I read where the maximum resolution on regular DVDs is only 720x480.I have my Blue Ray player set to HDMI Auto so the player and HDTV talk to each other then the HDTV selects the resolution or so it says in the Blue Ray player owner's manual.

When I watch on my 722k/wMT2 the SI says all are 1080i(that's the resolution I have selected in the HDTV setting).

SaltiDawg

Jun 6, 2011

Jhon69 said:
It's the HDTV's System Information that is in conflict with that statement,like I said maybe this is why this Vizio M550SV LED-LCD HDTV was cheaper.
... .

What you are seeing is the Input to your TV - 1080p from BD, 1080i from your Dish receiver, etc.

As I said, "If the native display resolution of your TV is 1080p, it must, by definition, display a 1080p signal. If the input to the TV is other then 1080p, it must upconvert that signal to 1080p in order to display it."

Has nothing to do with the brand.

Jim5506

Jun 7, 2011

1080p24 is a smaller file size that 1080i30, so the real barrier is that TV stations do not want to add the extra cost of an additional modulation AND there is no content available from almost any network that is 1080p24 (excellent for movies since there is no need for 3:2 conversion of frames - this is what Dishes 1080p is downloaded as).

The whole conversion to HD has been a political nightmare arranged by a committee of blind men.

They should have gone with a 1080p format of some type in the first place instead of 1080i30 - but they didn't ask me - did they ask anyone?

I think we got interlaced frames because the NTSC picture was interlaced and the TV manufacturers were reluctant to make such a sweeping change, but then again 720p60 was in the spec, so who knows what their thinking was.

One other thing - nearly all if not ALL digital displays today display the image in a type of progressive mode even if the input to the TV is interlaced, because LCD, DLP, plasma and other digital displays do not scan the picture onto the screen, they put it up as a complete frame all at once, then the next frame, then the next and so forth, it is more akin to the way motion picture projectors put one total frame up at a time, in a flash, but with virtually no blanking between frames. Not interlaced, but not really progressive either, the electronics assemble the total frame and flash it to the display all at once.

Jhon69

Jun 7, 2011

Jim5506 said:
1080p24 is a smaller file size that 1080i30, so the real barrier is that TV stations do not want to add the extra cost of an additional modulation AND there is no content available from almost any network that is 1080p24 (excellent for movies since there is no need for 3:2 conversion of frames - this is what Dishes 1080p is downloaded as).

The whole conversion to HD has been a political nightmare arranged by a committee of blind men.

They should have gone with a 1080p format of some type in the first place instead of 1080i30 - but they didn't ask me - did they ask anyone?

I think we got interlaced frames because the NTSC picture was interlaced and the TV manufacturers were reluctant to make such a sweeping change, but then again 720p60 was in the spec, so who knows what their thinking was.

One other thing - nearly all if not ALL digital displays today display the image in a type of progressive mode even if the input to the TV is interlaced, because LCD, DLP, plasma and other digital displays do not scan the picture onto the screen, they put it up as a complete frame all at once, then the next frame, then the next and so forth, it is more akin to the way motion picture projectors put one total frame up at a time, in a flash, but with virtually no blanking between frames. Not interlaced, but not really progressive either, the electronics assemble the total frame and flash it to the display all at once.

So if the NAB would adopt what you say do you think there would be OTA antennas appearing all over the country?.

TheKrell

Jun 7, 2011

Jim5506 said:
I think we got interlaced frames because the NTSC picture was interlaced and the TV manufacturers were reluctant to make such a sweeping change, but then again 720p60 was in the spec, so who knows what their thinking was.

That's an easy one.

The bandwidth isn't there for 1080p60, without exceeding what's available within a single analog channel.

navychop

Jun 7, 2011

TheKrell said:
That's an easy one. The bandwidth isn't there for 1080p60, without exceeding what's available within a single analog channel.

Yet they could have prepared for the future by defining 1080 60p. Then, when MPEG-whatever comes out, it might be able to compress twice as good as MPEG-4, thereby allowing such broadcasts in 6 MHz. But alas, as I noted before, I think it's moot. Broadcast TV seems to be slicing it's own throat.

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TWiT Tech Podcast Network

5 minutes ago · posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Security Now 1102

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UK11O-VoMBU

Direct YouTube Link - Security Now 1102
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed

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meStevo

Lifetime Supporter

Last reply 17 minutes ago · posted in The Sports Section

NFL 2026-2027 Season

Schedule drops tomorrow. Mandatory mini camps in June. Hall of Fame game August 6th.

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rvvaquero

Oct 20, 2026

Jerry Jones and Jimmy Johnson had an argument about who was responsible for the dynasty building of the early 90's Cowboys.

The rest of us figured it out in about 3 years, Jerry has had over 30 years but still can't admit it. It's all he lives for, to show everyone he can put together a winner. I don't think he can. His kids only know what he taught them.

Reactions: Mike0616, dfergie and b4pjoe

Yespage

Thursday at 9:15 AM

rvvaquero said:
Jerry Jones and Jimmy Johnson had an argument about who was responsible for the dynasty building of the early 90's Cowboys.

The rest of us figured it out in about 3 years, Jerry has had over 30 years but still can't admit it. It's all he lives for, to show everyone he can put together a winner. I don't think he can. His kids only know what he taught them.

Johnson built it, but without the Herschel Walker trade, it never happens.

Reactions: AZ. and b4pjoe

b4pjoe

Thursday at 9:53 AM

Yespage said:
Johnson built it, but without the Herschel Walker trade, it never happens.

Jerry made himself General Manager after he bought the team but make no mistake Jimmy engineered that trade. As well as a lot of others at the time.

Reactions: rvvaquero, osu1991 and Yespage

rvvaquero

Thursday at 11:50 AM

Jimmy Johnson is a football guy. Jerry Jones is a marketer (hustler).

When I see a football player get a 15 yard penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct (like taunting) in a close game, I often wonder what he was thinking. Was he thinking, I'm doing everything I can to make this a better team and help win a championship? Or, was he saying to himself, I want everyone to notice how great I am?

Johnson inspires one, Jones the other.

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meStevo

Thursday at 10:53 PM

View: https://x.com/AdamSchefter/status/2113438192913588676?s=20

Reactions: AZ., Mike0616 and osu1991

meStevo

Sunday at 8:17 PM

Got to unfurl and hold the flag at Allegiant for the anthem today - amazing experience.

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HipKat

17 minutes ago

Balls
Bears. Gave the Pats a good beatdown.
Bucs. Got Baker back and absolutely demolished the previously surprising Panthers.
Falcons. Took care of the 49ers and did so convincingly.
Vikings. I hate them. I do. I've never seen such a bad/good team. Know what I mean? I know their D is epic. But their O is insulting. How they remain undefeated is a mystery.
Rams. Finally looked the part. Mind you against the hapless Cards.
Cowboys. Fireworks performance from their O.
Dolphins. Finally logged in a W. There won't be many. Enjoy it, Miami fans.
Browns. Still atop the AFC North.
Giants. Epic OT win with Buffalo's very own Motor Singletary finishing it off.
Seattle. Dominated KC from start to finish.

Goats
Jets. Couldn't beat the winless Dolphins. Aaron Glenn is a dead man walking.
Eagles. Injured beyond repair
Ravens and Lamar. Has he ever played a full season? Honestly, dude is fragile. Of course he's back for the Bills game.
49ers. No longer undefeated.
Colts. A sh*t show. When are they gonna realize that Daniel Jones is ass?
Steelers vs Saints game. Ass, just ass all around. Those poor people in Paris have had enough lately, and on top of that, endure that game.
Chiefs. They looked terrible. Like really bad.
Pack vs. Detroit game refs. Some of the worst refereeing I've seen in a long time. And the sample is pretty large.

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Scott Greczkowski

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge

Last reply 36 minutes ago · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Song Name Game Part 3!

Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne

Get it?

An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....

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gms49ers

Today at 1:17 PM

Dancing Days - Led Zeppelin

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dishstaller

Today at 2:34 PM

Dancing in the Street - Van Halen

long_time_Dish

Today at 3:47 PM

Bakers Street - Gerry Rafferty

Reactions: gms49ers

Bobby

Today at 4:09 PM

long_time_Dish said:
Bakers Street - Gerry Rafferty

Let me fix that for you:
Baker Street - Gerry Rafferty

EatMyVolts

36 minutes ago

The 59th Street Bridge Song -- Simon & Garfunkel

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MartyDe

Last reply Today at 5:37 PM · posted in Over the Air Television By RabbitEars.Info

ATSC 3 converter boxes

Interesting article about the work being done to develope an ATSC 3 converter box. Yes it does mention affordable.

Pearl TV Issues Progress Report on Low-Cost 3.0 Converters in Advance of NAB Show New York

Group has secured lower pricing from key tech players to make less costly boxes available

www.tvtechnology.com

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navychop

Oct 20, 2026

DEATH TO NEXGEN!

Reactions: primestar31, RaVo68, gms49ers and 1 other person

primestar31

Wednesday at 7:29 PM

navychop said:
DEATH TO NEXGEN!

It's dead, they just don't know it yet. They killed it by forcing DRM on it, and that TOTALLY botched implementing it.

There is absolutely NO compelling reason for anybody to switch to ATSC3.0. They only want it as a total and complete money grab.

Reactions: slow_poke_pete, FTA4PA and navychop

navychop

Wednesday at 10:37 PM

I truly hope you are right.

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Mister B

Thursday at 7:43 AM

What bothers me is the total waste of broadcasting spectrum in this very crowded market. It has been almost three years now since KFOX converted their broadcast tower to ATSC 3.0 and moved all of their channels to other towers causing noticeable degradation of the picture quality.
I have a Sony TV with 3.0 capabilities but still use the 1.0 version of locals due to the fact that one or all of the 3.0 channels are often missing or unwatchable. In this city of 800K I doubt that more than a few hundred even know about ATSC 3.0.
The only thing that could motivate me to be interested in 3.0 would be if all of the minor networks (diginets) could be in at least 720P rather than blurry ultra-compressed 480i.
Three years is long enough to waste one of the few available RF frequencies in the area for this trial.
It is time to either move on with this experiment or call it quits.

navychop

Thursday at 4:31 PM

Mister B said:
In this city of 800K I doubt that more than a few hundred even know about ATSC 3.0.

They might notice the hand going into their pocket for their wallet.

Reactions: FTA4PA

navychop

Thursday at 4:31 PM

Mister B said:
It is time to either move on with this experiment or call it quits.

QFT. Of course, my preference involves a curb and some kicking.

Reactions: FTA4PA

slow_poke_pete

Today at 5:37 PM

primestar31 said:
It's dead, they just don't know it yet. They killed it by forcing DRM on it, and that TOTALLY botched implementing it.

There is absolutely NO compelling reason for anybody to switch to ATSC3.0. They only want it as a total and complete money grab.

WHAT ABOUT THE INTERNET PART OF IT. NO ONE WANTS A BOX CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET EITHER.

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TRG

Pub Member / Supporter

Last reply Today at 5:35 PM · posted in Local Radio Discussion

House Passes AM Radio For Every Vehicle Act

House Passes AM Radio For Every Vehicle Act

(Washington, DC) - The U.S. House has passed the AM Radio for Every Vehicle Act, marking a major step forward for broadcasters and listeners who have pushed to keep AM radio available in new cars and

wabcradio.com

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dishdude

Sep 18, 2026

It's probably been 2 decades since I've listened to an AM radio station. Very rarely listen to FM any more.

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Jimbo

Today at 8:35 AM

I am 1 that wants the AM to Stay ....
That said, since '08 I have had Sat radio available to me ... I think I have turned on AM 3 or 4 times, just to see if its still there.

Fwiw, if theres a Major disaster or bad weather or whatever, the chances of me finding out about it by going to the AM side of the radio is SLIM and None.
Even FM, I haven't really had on since '13ish, I may turn it on from time to time, just to see if its still there.

harshness

Today at 10:10 AM

Jimbo said:
Fwiw, if theres a Major disaster or bad weather or whatever, the chances of me finding out about it by going to the AM side of the radio is SLIM and None.

Automation has seen to that. You can't get evening drive traffic reports where I live, much less disaster reports.

dishstaller

Today at 10:41 AM

dishdude said:
Very rarely listen to FM any more

That goes for a lot of people. I've been advertising on radio for more than a decade now and am very familiar with this subject. While it is still a valuable tool, it has far less impact than it did just a few years ago. The best reaction I get is from a local Country music station....they play a mix of older and newer music and have a very big footprint.

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Jimbo

Today at 11:03 AM

dishstaller said:
That goes for a lot of people. I've been advertising on radio for more than a decade now and am very familiar with this subject. While it is still a valuable tool, it has far less impact than it did just a few years ago. The best reaction I get is from a local Country music station....they play a mix of older and newer music and have a very big footprint.

Do you do any Ad's on Satellite ?

If Not, why not, because it's not Local ?

dishstaller

Today at 12:29 PM

Jimbo said:
Do you do any Ad's on Satellite ?

If Not, why not, because it's not Local ?

No, just regular FM stations. One is the country station I mentioned and the other is a Talk Radio station which used to get fantastic results but honestly, since the death of Rush Limbaugh, talk radio just doesn't do as well. There were two guys who had an early morning show which was hugely popular here in the southeast but one of them retired a couple years ago and the show just doesn't garner the same numbers as it used to.

slow_poke_pete

Today at 5:35 PM

Haven't listened AM or FM in years

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TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Today at 5:02 PM · posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Security Now 1101

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ4Z4zafNLI

Direct YouTube Link - Security Now 1101
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed

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osu1991

Pub Member / Supporter

Last reply Today at 5:01 PM · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Susan Saint James, Emmy-Winning Star of 'Kate & Allie' and 'McMillan & Wife,' Dies at 80

Susan Saint James, Emmy-Winning Star of ‘Kate & Allie’ and ‘McMillan & Wife,’ Dies at 80

Susan Saint James, the Emmy-winning actress who starred in "Kate & Allie," died Monday after being diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. She was 80.

variety.com

1 Replies · 12 views

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Bobby

Today at 5:01 PM

Rest in peace.

JSheridan

Lifetime Supporter

Last reply Today at 4:58 PM · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

All DMA's now Western Arc

I know HipKat said that they were working on conversions but we got the official news yesterday right from Dish that starting next month all DMA's will be on the western arc, and all customers will be assigned to that. That's gonna mean a lot of customers around here aren't gonna get Dish unless there are exceptions. Too many mountains and trees.

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Strega

Friday at 10:01 PM

Even if you are broadcasting old SD-only shows, I would think advertisers would still want their commercials to look good.

Reactions: charlesrshell

Jimbo

Friday at 11:17 PM

Strega said:
Even if you are broadcasting old SD-only shows, I would think advertisers would still want their commercials to look good.

Advertisers on SD channels are probably Far and Few, very hard to find, they have very few viewers to watch them.

Reactions: charlesrshell

Mister B

Saturday at 7:35 AM

Jimbo said:
Advertisers on SD channels are probably Far and Few, very hard to find, they have very few viewers to watch them.

I watch mostly SD channels (H&I, Start and ION, etc.). There are plenty of advertisers, this time of the year it is mostly Medicare Advantage plans, auto extended warranties and the occasional walk-in-tub. They know who is watching.

Reactions: Almighty1, savarese04 and charlesrshell

slow_poke_pete

Yesterday at 10:40 AM

Mister B said:
I watch mostly SD channels (H&I, Start and ION, etc.). There are plenty of advertisers, this time of the year it is mostly Medicare Advantage plans, auto extended warranties and the occasional walk-in-tub. They know who is watching.

can't forget the little blue m&m's

Reactions: Almighty1, charlesrshell and telstar_1

charlesrshell

Yesterday at 11:23 AM

slow_poke_pete said:
can't forget the little blue m&m's

That's what my wife calls my Viagra!!

Reactions: Almighty1, slow_poke_pete, MikeD-C05 and 2 others

telstar_1

Yesterday at 8:12 PM

Why didn't Charlie end up launching starlink

Reactions: charlesrshell

Foxbat

Yesterday at 9:01 PM

telstar_1 said:
Why didn't Charlie end up launching starlink

Because he didn't have a fleet of reusable rockets. Starlink works because SpaceX is able to launch hundreds (thousands?) of their Starlink satellites for what a single geostationary Internet satellite costs to build and launch on a disposable launcher.

Reactions: MikeD-C05, dishstaller, HipKat and 2 others

telstar_1

Today at 12:08 AM

But how is it reusable if it's disposable

Reactions: charlesrshell

slow_poke_pete

Today at 2:09 AM

charlesrshell said:
That's what my wife calls my Viagra!!

My gf is 29 years younger than me :shh

Reactions: MikeD-C05, charlesrshell and HipKat

Almighty1

Today at 4:04 PM

telstar_1 said:
Why didn't Charlie end up launching starlink

He does not have the resources aka $$$ compared to Elon Musk as in reality, Elon can eat Charlie for lunch or even mop the floor with Charlie if he wanted to.

Reactions: charlesrshell

slow_poke_pete

Today at 4:58 PM

ment to 20 yrs dam phone

Reactions: charlesrshell

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Marques Brownlee

Today at 4:42 PM · posted in Marques Brownlee

This can SEE Sound!

Time for another AWESOME video from Marques Brownlee!

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ai1gIWacf0I

Direct YouTube Link - This can SEE Sound!
The official MKBHD Website!
The MKBHD Store

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iJustine

Today at 4:12 PM · posted in iJustine

New Dive Computer! Oceanic’s o.i 🤿

Time for another AWESOME video from iJustine!

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/roM3DlRf5Gk

Direct YouTube Link - New Dive Computer! Oceanic's o.i

The official iJustine Website's Website
Buy her book!

0 Replies · 6 views

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Popularity of Mt2 off air tuner?

Security Now 1102

NFL 2026-2027 Season

Song Name Game Part 3!

ATSC 3 converter boxes

Pearl TV Issues Progress Report on Low-Cost 3.0 Converters in Advance of NAB Show New York

House Passes AM Radio For Every Vehicle Act

House Passes AM Radio For Every Vehicle Act

Security Now 1101

Susan Saint James, Emmy-Winning Star of 'Kate & Allie' and 'McMillan & Wife,' Dies at 80

Susan Saint James, Emmy-Winning Star of ‘Kate & Allie’ and ‘McMillan & Wife,’ Dies at 80

All DMA's now Western Arc

This can SEE Sound!

New Dive Computer! Oceanic’s o.i 🤿