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Solid-State

Last reply Jul 12, 2011 · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

600 Feet of RG11 DPP Twin -> DPP44

I'm about to do an install requiring a 650' IFL using RG11. The two RG11 segments will be between a Dishpro Plus Twin and a DPP44 switch for house distro to first receiver being twin tuner PVR using DPP bandstacked displexor.

I'm curious what amplifiers and/or voltage insertion I will require. There is power at the shed where the dish is located and the cable run is through 3' orange conduit. The cable I'm using is Belden 1525A RG11.

My concern is both voltage at the LNB (DPPTwin) and signal insertion loss over such a run. I also have two inline single slope amps rated to 2150 I intend to place just before the DPP44.

I've never done commercial installs and thus need help regarding required amplification and voltage insertion. I was also considering using voltage inserter/PSU from legacy SW44 switch at the dish/shed location.

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Solid-State

Jun 10, 2011

I thought of that but customer wouldn't want two dishes at the entrance to their million dollar water front property. The wife already complained/asked about putting the dish else were it's it's virtually impossible as it's facing north north west and to the south south east it's up a hillside with 150-250' fir and cedar stand. Believe me if I could place the dish elsewhere I would.

I'm also curious why you say a DPPtwin will eventually cause problems on a DPP44 ??

Solid-State

Jun 10, 2011

I was also under the impression that when a DPPtwin is connected to a DPP44 it goes into bandstack mode and does no voltage switching what so ever. It also disabled the build in switch for third orbital slot.

Am I wrong?

harshness

Jun 10, 2011

Solid-State said:
I was also under the impression that when a DPPtwin is connected to a DPP44 it goes into bandstack mode and does no voltage switching what so ever.

Attaching a DPP44 to a DPP Twin turns the DPP Twin into a DP Twin. This is why the recommendations are for one or the other depending on how many receivers must be served.

scoobyxj

Jun 10, 2011

There can sometimes be switch integration issues with the DDP Twin and a DPP44SW. You could save yourself some headache not to mention it's cheaper to just use two duals or a DP twin.

johnathanromero

Jun 12, 2011

Solid-State said:
I thought of that but customer wouldn't want two dishes at the entrance to their million dollar water front property. The wife already complained/asked about putting the dish else were it's it's virtually impossible as it's facing north north west and to the south south east it's up a hillside with 150-250' fir and cedar stand. Believe me if I could place the dish elsewhere I would.

I'm also curious why you say a DPPtwin will eventually cause problems on a DPP44 ??

IMO the customer is not worth the headache you are going to be dealing with, with cable runs that long and the non-standard equip being used, and your lack of knowledge of products being used they are going to probably haunt you for a long long time.

wardfan

Jun 18, 2011

harshness said:
Attaching a DPP44 to a DPP Twin turns the DPP Twin into a DP Twin. This is why the recommendations are for one or the other depending on how many receivers must be served.

It doesn't turn it into a DP Twin it essentially turns it into 2 DP Singles. Adding a switch disables the built in switch causing the DPP-Twin to output 110 on one coax and 119 on the other. If it acted like a DP-Twin it would still output 119/110 on the same line just without the DP PRO capabilities, which is NOT what it does. And as asked above, yes it disables the input on the DPP Twin also.

3HaloODST

Jun 20, 2011

wardfan said:
It doesn't turn it into a DP Twin it essentially turns it into 2 DP Singles. Adding a switch disables the built in switch causing the DPP-Twin to output 110 on one coax and 119 on the other. If it acted like a DP-Twin it would still output 119/110 on the same line just without the DP PRO capabilities, which is NOT what it does. And as asked above, yes it disables the input on the DPP Twin also.

Yes, the DP twin is just a DPP Twin without an input for a wing dish. Must use two DP21s to add a third orbital slot. Even the legacy twin/quad can output 110/119 on one cable, but just like the DP dual, requires SW21s for a third orbital slot. Legacy twins/quads cannot be hooked to external DP/DPP switches.

Claude Greiner

Jul 12, 2011

johnathanromero said:
IMO the customer is not worth the headache you are going to be dealing with, with cable runs that long and the non-standard equip being used, and your lack of knowledge of products being used they are going to probably haunt you for a long long time.

I agree somewhat with this. I have been doing this for 12 years, and unless you get it right the first time, this customer is going to keep nagging you everytime they loose signal, or realize that they are missing random channels due to certain frequancies dropping off at due to the long cable runs.

Eventually what happens is that after going out several times for trouble calls, you end up eating the cost of a $500 commercial grade amplifier to make the problem go away.

My suggestion is to talk to someone at a place such as Holland Electronics that sell commercial grade equipment, and have them design the system and figure out all the proper amplification taking in account for signal loss due to the long cable runs.

Claude G.

Claude Greiner

Jul 12, 2011

I just read the rest of the thread, and its good to see that you got the system working with the advise of Holland.

What did you end up charging the customer?

Solid-State

Jul 12, 2011

I wish not to share the costs and am rather shocked you'd ask as it's inappropriate don't you think! Everyone seems very concerned about voltage. I have a 4SPI-20 inserter with 1.4 amps of 20v current with less than 20' of cable between the inserter and the LNB.

Unfortunately I live in Canada and my wholesale prices on this gear are OUTRAGEOUS. I pay slightly higher than RETAIL from a wholesaler. Really looking for a better wholesaler in Canada for Dishpro and Sonora gear.

To give you guys an idea... a Dish Pro Dual LNB costs me $50 bucks and a DPP Twin is $45(used to charge me $65 until I complained). A DPP44 is a $100 bucks and the Sonora LAL205 is $210 at COST.They also have sent me referb LNBs and that really pissed me off.

I would still like to know why most of you say using a DPP Twin with a DPP44 is a bad idea. I don't understand why you all feel this way and the echostar info says you can do this. Is this confusion with the fact DPP Twin can't be used with DP34 etc?

Solid-State

Jul 12, 2011

scoobyxj said:
There can sometimes be switch integration issues with the DDP Twin and a DPP44SW. You could save yourself some headache not to mention it's cheaper to just use two duals or a DP twin.

And these switch integration issues prob have to do with what port on the DPP Twin is sent to what port on a DPP44. I think what happens is they have the wrong ports from the DPP Twin sent to the wrong port on the DPP44. This would make the ports backwards and only a checkswitch would resolve. It defaults to port 1 being the more eastern bird and port 2 being the more western on the DPP44. The physical ports on the DPP Twin are the reverse. Port 1 is the eastern bird and port 2 is the more westerly bird when DPP Twin is connected to DPP44 and has gone into Dishpro bandstack mode and is the SAME THING as two dishpro singles. This means DPP Twin port 1 goes to DPP44 port 2 and DPP Twin port 2 goes to DPP44 port 1. If it's backward then the birds are reversed on the DPP44 switch and the power on defaults of IRD will have 22khz tone/DiSEqC backwards for each bird. A checkswitch on the IRD will set it right but if the IRD reboots from firmware hit etc it will be backwards again until checkswitch is run.

Solid-State

Jul 12, 2011

3HaloODST said:
Yes, the DP twin is just a DPP Twin without an input for a wing dish. Must use two DP21s to add a third orbital slot. Even the legacy twin/quad can output 110/119 on one cable, but just like the DP dual, requires SW21s for a third orbital slot. Legacy twins/quads cannot be hooked to external DP/DPP switches.

The DP Twin is not just a DPP Twin without an input for wing dish. This is totally WRONG man... if this is the case please explain how a DPP Twin with dish pro plus separator works!!! How can the signal from two satellites be sent down one segment to two tuners AT THE SAME TIME IE When PVR is recording on both sats at the SAME TIME. Understand that when you use a DPP Twin in this way it uses old school voltage switch in combination with 22khz/DiSEqC and bandstacking with an extra band. The fact it uses voltage switching in DPP mode also accounts for the fact it's legacy compatible isn't it!!!

The DPP Twin can do BOTH Dish Pro and Dish Pro Plus depending on what it's connected to!!!

DP Twin and DPP Twin are not the same... in fact they are not even similar! Well I guess they are if connected to DPP44 and even in this case they are different as DP Twin provides both birds on 22khz tone/DiSEqC down BOTH IFLs to DPP44. The DPP Twin will only send bandstacked for each bird discrete to each IFL to DPP44 with no 22khz/DiSEqC bird switch.

The DP Twin and DPP Twin are not the same animal and in fact work completely differently.

PS I've also been installing sat TV for over 10 years just like the site admin/opp but I don't get to use this gear as often as Bell still uses legacy the cheap buggers!

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dishstaller

Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter

Last reply 1 minute ago · posted in The Chit Chat Club

At least 64 dead in Spanish passenger train collision

Terrible tragedy. You would think that they would have safe guards in place that would prevent something like this from happening. I guess if you are going to ride in a passenger train it might be best to get a car near the rear.

At Least 64 Dead After Two High-Speed Trains Collide In Spain | ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

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Jimbo

1 minute ago

dishstaller said:
Terrible tragedy. You would think that they would have safe guards in place that would prevent something like this from happening. I guess if you are going to ride in a passenger train it might be best to get a car near the rear.

At Least 64 Dead After Two High-Speed Trains Collide In Spain | ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

They will have to look at the switching sections to determine WHY 2 trains were on the same track ... at the same time.

Scott Greczkowski

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge

Last reply 4 minutes ago · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Song Name Game Part 3!

Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne

Get it?

An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....

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gms49ers

Today at 9:28 AM

Show Don't Tell - Rush

harshness

Today at 9:54 AM

Show and Tell - Al Wilson

sdfntx

Today at 10:24 AM

On with the Show - The Rolling Stones

gms49ers

43 minutes ago

The Show Must Go On - Pink Floyd

Bobby

4 minutes ago

If Love Must Go - Dobie Gray

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Scott Greczkowski

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge

Last reply 21 minutes ago · posted in SiriusXM Satellite Radio

SiriusXM announces 25 Holiday Channels for 2026

Some of the channels start next week.

SiriusXM Delivers the Soundtrack to the Holidays with Its Festive Lineup of 25 Handcrafted Seasonal Music Channels

Lineup features channels produced and presented by celebrated personalities and iconic brands, including Jimmy Fallon, Hallmark,…...

investor.siriusxm.com

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comfortably_numb

26 minutes ago

My favorite is probably Holiday Pops.

TRG

21 minutes ago

It's not even Halloween yet.

osu1991

Pub Member / Supporter

Last reply Today at 10:09 AM · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Susan Saint James, Emmy-Winning Star of 'Kate & Allie' and 'McMillan & Wife,' Dies at 80

Susan Saint James, Emmy-Winning Star of ‘Kate & Allie’ and ‘McMillan & Wife,’ Dies at 80

Susan Saint James, the Emmy-winning actress who starred in "Kate & Allie," died Monday after being diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. She was 80.

variety.com

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Bobby

Yesterday at 5:01 PM

Rest in peace.

sdfntx

Yesterday at 7:39 PM

Sorry to hear this. R.I.P.

FTA4PA

Yesterday at 8:53 PM

R.I.P.

dishstaller

Today at 10:09 AM

My Mom was a huge McMillan & Wife fan.

RIP

TRG

Pub Member / Supporter

Last reply Today at 10:07 AM · posted in Local Radio Discussion

House Passes AM Radio For Every Vehicle Act

House Passes AM Radio For Every Vehicle Act

(Washington, DC) - The U.S. House has passed the AM Radio for Every Vehicle Act, marking a major step forward for broadcasters and listeners who have pushed to keep AM radio available in new cars and

wabcradio.com

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dishdude

Sep 18, 2026

It's probably been 2 decades since I've listened to an AM radio station. Very rarely listen to FM any more.

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dishstaller

Yesterday at 10:41 AM

dishdude said:
Very rarely listen to FM any more

That goes for a lot of people. I've been advertising on radio for more than a decade now and am very familiar with this subject. While it is still a valuable tool, it has far less impact than it did just a few years ago. The best reaction I get is from a local Country music station....they play a mix of older and newer music and have a very big footprint.

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Jimbo

Yesterday at 11:03 AM

dishstaller said:
That goes for a lot of people. I've been advertising on radio for more than a decade now and am very familiar with this subject. While it is still a valuable tool, it has far less impact than it did just a few years ago. The best reaction I get is from a local Country music station....they play a mix of older and newer music and have a very big footprint.

Do you do any Ad's on Satellite ?

If Not, why not, because it's not Local ?

dishstaller

Yesterday at 12:29 PM

Jimbo said:
Do you do any Ad's on Satellite ?

If Not, why not, because it's not Local ?

No, just regular FM stations. One is the country station I mentioned and the other is a Talk Radio station which used to get fantastic results but honestly, since the death of Rush Limbaugh, talk radio just doesn't do as well. There were two guys who had an early morning show which was hugely popular here in the southeast but one of them retired a couple years ago and the show just doesn't garner the same numbers as it used to.

slow_poke_pete

Yesterday at 5:35 PM

Haven't listened AM or FM in years

harshness

Today at 10:07 AM

Jimbo said:
If Not, why not, because it's not Local ?

You knew the answer before you asked it.

I can't recall having encountered a local ad on Sirius, and I don't imagine it is any different on XM.

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Gary Toma

Staff member Pub Member / Supporter Cutting Edge

Last reply Today at 8:31 AM · posted in DIRECTV Technical Resources Forum

DIRECTV Transponder Map ~ Data 10/21/2026

The TPN Map Excel Presents all DIRECTV Channels:

National (50-States or wide/NAT+PR beams)
Local (Local-Into-Local or narrow/Spot beams)

Additional tabs provide:

OTA the (Over-The-Air) Database
VOD (Video On_Demand) Records
Offline Records
Engr Records
Net Decoder a graphic presentation of all satellites and transponders

Domestic Satellites
@99W...... D11, D14
@101W.... D16
@103W.... D12, D15
@110W.... D5
@119W.... D8

Understanding the TPN Map

Making Sense of the TPN Map Display Conventions

DIRECTV_TPN_Map_261021.xlsx 1,876 KB

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dtv757

Monday at 7:33 AM

For those dazn nba channels are they sat only or sat & streaming

KyL416

Monday at 1:50 PM

Both, and they just made it official with a multiyear deal that also includes TV Everywhere authentication for the DAZN app, and commercial distribution.

DIRECTV, the premier provider of digital television entertainment in the United States, and DAZN, the world's leading sports entertainment platform, today announced a new multi-year distribution agreement for local telecasts of Cleveland Cavaliers, Indiana Pacers, Memphis Grizzlies, Minnesota Timberwolves, and San Antonio Spurs games for DIRECTV streaming, satellite, and U-verse customers in each team's respective NBA-designated home territories.

These DAZN telecasts will be available to DIRECTV customers who subscribe to the Choice or higher packages and to U-verse TV customers who subscribe to the U200 or higher package. Each of DAZN's team services provides live pregame, postgame, and in-game coverage for the respective team.

In the coming weeks, customers who receive access to these teams via DIRECTV will also be able to login to the DAZN platform at no additional cost using their DIRECTV login credentials.

This agreement also provides distribution rights to each of the five NBA teams to all of DIRECTV FOR BUSINESS' thousands of sports bars, restaurants, fitness clubs, and other commercial venues located within each team's respective region.

Reactions: dtv757 and Mr Tony

doctor J

Today at 7:25 AM

DirecTV Satellite Transponder Updates for Oct 28 2026

Comparison of Transponder Data for Oct 28 2026 vs Oct 21 2026:

No changes in system tables for any transponder tuning parameters.

Changes to the use of defined transponders:

1 Transponder cleared of all Streams::
Net 15 TID 12 Beam NAT is a National Transponder on D12@103ca, TPN 13

2 Previously unused Transponders with current APG records::
Net 0 TID 28 Beam NAT + PR is a National Transponder on D16@101, TPN 29
Net 10 TID 126 Beam NAT is a National Transponder on D11@99cb, TPN 3

Stream (PID) counts:

LIVE Streams	National		Spot Beams
	Count	Change	Count	Change
4K	4
HD	264		1449
SD mpeg4	144	-1	194
SD mpeg2	434	1
RB
Audio	89
Push	26
Slate	19		1

TEST Streams	National		Spot Beams
	Count	Change	Count	Change
4K
HD			1
SD mpeg4
SD mpeg2
RB
Engr Work	38

The PID count Excel workbook provides much more count detail.

Newly updated tables of Streams on each transponder are available in the DataDigesters TPN Grids

More details of changes in individual channels will follow in the Weekly Analysis
and Gary Toma's Domestic TPN Map Excel files
A few remaps
Weekly Analysis soon
Enjoy
DataDigesters

doctor J

Today at 7:26 AM

Weekly Analysis for 10/28/2026:

Weekly_Analysis_261028.xlsx 16 KB

KyL416

Today at 8:31 AM

ElectionHQ mixes testing with BBC News, CNBC, CNN, FBN, FNC, MSNOW, NewsMax and NewsNation

Some more reshuffles

Updating the TMSIDs for KSBI and KQCW to use the cable feeds with Thunder games instead of the OTA feeds

An additional commercial PPV channel is now on 9530

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Booredatwork.com

Today at 8:12 AM · posted in BooredAtWork.COM

Amazon Echo Show 16: Now this is it!

Time for another AWESOME video from BoredAtWork!

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/wVSqE_URJIo

Direct YouTube Link - Amazon Echo Show 16: Now this is it!
Booredatwork.com Website
Booredatwork on Facebook

0 Replies · 13 views

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TFLEV

Today at 7:02 AM · posted in TFLEV

Can You ACTUALLY Use the Mazda CX-90 PHEV As an Electric Commuter? | Baseline Challenge

Time for another AWESOME video from TFL Electric Vehicles!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-HYgO5Lpa8

Direct YouTube Link - Can You ACTUALLY Use the Mazda CX-90 PHEV As an Electric Commuter? | Baseline Challenge

0 Replies · 15 views

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TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Today at 3:02 AM · posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Apple's All-New iPad mini

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtLJGwEtyT0

Direct YouTube Link - Apple's All-New iPad mini
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed

0 Replies · 21 views

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JSheridan

Lifetime Supporter

Last reply Today at 1:01 AM · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

All DMA's now Western Arc

I know HipKat said that they were working on conversions but we got the official news yesterday right from Dish that starting next month all DMA's will be on the western arc, and all customers will be assigned to that. That's gonna mean a lot of customers around here aren't gonna get Dish unless there are exceptions. Too many mountains and trees.

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Strega

Friday at 10:01 PM

Even if you are broadcasting old SD-only shows, I would think advertisers would still want their commercials to look good.

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Jimbo

Friday at 11:17 PM

Strega said:
Even if you are broadcasting old SD-only shows, I would think advertisers would still want their commercials to look good.

Advertisers on SD channels are probably Far and Few, very hard to find, they have very few viewers to watch them.

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Mister B

Saturday at 7:35 AM

Jimbo said:
Advertisers on SD channels are probably Far and Few, very hard to find, they have very few viewers to watch them.

I watch mostly SD channels (H&I, Start and ION, etc.). There are plenty of advertisers, this time of the year it is mostly Medicare Advantage plans, auto extended warranties and the occasional walk-in-tub. They know who is watching.

Reactions: gasman882001, Almighty1, savarese04 and 1 other person

slow_poke_pete

Monday at 10:40 AM

Mister B said:
I watch mostly SD channels (H&I, Start and ION, etc.). There are plenty of advertisers, this time of the year it is mostly Medicare Advantage plans, auto extended warranties and the occasional walk-in-tub. They know who is watching.

can't forget the little blue m&m's

Reactions: Almighty1, charlesrshell and telstar_1

charlesrshell

Monday at 11:23 AM

slow_poke_pete said:
can't forget the little blue m&m's

That's what my wife calls my Viagra!!

Reactions: Almighty1, slow_poke_pete, MikeD-C05 and 2 others

telstar_1

Monday at 8:12 PM

Why didn't Charlie end up launching starlink

Reactions: charlesrshell

slow_poke_pete

Yesterday at 2:09 AM

charlesrshell said:
That's what my wife calls my Viagra!!

My gf is 29 years younger than me :shh

Reactions: MikeD-C05, charlesrshell and HipKat

Almighty1

Yesterday at 4:04 PM

telstar_1 said:
Why didn't Charlie end up launching starlink

He does not have the resources aka $$$ compared to Elon Musk as in reality, Elon can eat Charlie for lunch or even mop the floor with Charlie if he wanted to.

Reactions: charlesrshell

slow_poke_pete

Yesterday at 4:58 PM

ment to 20 yrs dam phone

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BradleyD

Yesterday at 11:57 PM

Dish should use both satellite and internet like they do now for all channels. Use either or or both.... like now but subscribers could choose something like internet only, or sat only, or both.

Reactions: charlesrshell

slow_poke_pete

Today at 1:01 AM

BradleyD said:
Dish should use both satellite and internet like they do now for all channels. Use either or or both.... like now but subscribers could choose something like internet only, or sat only, or both.

They have sling tv wich sucks ass it needs a major upgrade

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600 Feet of RG11 DPP Twin -> DPP44

At least 64 dead in Spanish passenger train collision

At Least 64 Dead After Two High-Speed Trains Collide In Spain | ZeroHedge

At Least 64 Dead After Two High-Speed Trains Collide In Spain | ZeroHedge

Song Name Game Part 3!

SiriusXM announces 25 Holiday Channels for 2026

SiriusXM Delivers the Soundtrack to the Holidays with Its Festive Lineup of 25 Handcrafted Seasonal Music Channels

Susan Saint James, Emmy-Winning Star of 'Kate & Allie' and 'McMillan & Wife,' Dies at 80

Susan Saint James, Emmy-Winning Star of ‘Kate & Allie’ and ‘McMillan & Wife,’ Dies at 80

House Passes AM Radio For Every Vehicle Act

House Passes AM Radio For Every Vehicle Act

DIRECTV Transponder Map ~ Data 10/21/2026

Amazon Echo Show 16: Now this is it!

Can You ACTUALLY Use the Mazda CX-90 PHEV As an Electric Commuter? | Baseline Challenge

Apple's All-New iPad mini

All DMA's now Western Arc