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I want a gaming system. Just to give you an little idea, my first game system was an Atari 2600. My last was a Sega Genesis. My question is this: Do ANY of the systems have games that a fumble fingered non coordinated guy can play without throwing the controller at the screen? I look at a PS3 or Xbox controller and see nothing but frustration. SIX or even EIGHT buttons? Are we playing here or are we launching a spacecraft? I had a hard enough time keeping up with four on the Genesis, and thats when I was 20 years old. Now that I am 42, sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.
What do I like to play? Well to put it bluntly, i like to walk around and blow sh*t up.
Do games still have cheat codes so that one can be invincible? Those used to be my favorite. I did get into DOOM PC game somewhat back in the day, but again, had to have the cheat code to get anywhere. I also might be interested in something like Bass fishing or something similar.
So tell me guys, is there a system for me with games I can play and not be frustrated? and while I am at it, Xbox or PS3? I have narrowed it down to those two because whatever I buy it MUST have HD PQ. Are the "rings of death" a thing of the past on Xbox? Do I need a hard drive and why? How big of a HD do I need?
Appreciate any thoughts.
What do I like to play? Well to put it bluntly, i like to walk around and blow sh*t up.
Do games still have cheat codes so that one can be invincible? Those used to be my favorite. I did get into DOOM PC game somewhat back in the day, but again, had to have the cheat code to get anywhere. I also might be interested in something like Bass fishing or something similar. So tell me guys, is there a system for me with games I can play and not be frustrated? and while I am at it, Xbox or PS3? I have narrowed it down to those two because whatever I buy it MUST have HD PQ. Are the "rings of death" a thing of the past on Xbox? Do I need a hard drive and why? How big of a HD do I need?
Appreciate any thoughts.
11 Replies
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1897 views
Looking for a manual. Want to do some radio astronomy with it. Realize it's old but, since it's not for tv use don't need any decoders, just the RF section.
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4 views
Staff member
HERE TO HELP YOU!
Cutting Edge
Due to security concerns and the fact that the Tapatalk Plugin for Xenforo is no longer being updated we have removed Tapatalk support from SatelliteGuys.
For those who were using it we recommend using our PWA App instead which is faster and does not have all the spam Tapatalk had. Below is a graphic showing how to add SatelliteGuys to your devices home screen. (While iOS is shown the process is mostly the same for Android.)
Thanks for your understanding.
For those who were using it we recommend using our PWA App instead which is faster and does not have all the spam Tapatalk had. Below is a graphic showing how to add SatelliteGuys to your devices home screen. (While iOS is shown the process is mostly the same for Android.)
Thanks for your understanding.
5 Replies
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127 views
Actually, PWA stands for "Progressive Web Application" and is basically just saving a site's homepage to your desktop where it appears as an "App" with the rest of your smartphone's Apps.
Staff member
HERE TO HELP YOU!
Cutting Edge
Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!
So let the game continue!
The last song was added by Bobby who posted...
One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters
CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!
Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game
Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.
Example:
Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow
Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio
Another example:
Ride the Lightning -- Metallica
Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne
Get it?
An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....
So let the game continue!
The last song was added by Bobby who posted...
One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters
CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!
Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game
Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.
Example:
Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow
Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio
Another example:
Ride the Lightning -- Metallica
Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne
Get it?
An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....
67101 Replies
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2662181 views
New low power station has been granted by the FCC and the new call leter is K33OB-D on RF ch. 33.
Will run at 15 KW ERP, this one runs from the Westside same location as KWPL-LD a HC2 owned station.
It's going to be aimed at eastern part of Albuquerque, so it's tightly focused beam pattern.
This new station is owned by Digital Network and what kind of programmings is unkown at this time.
Will run at 15 KW ERP, this one runs from the Westside same location as KWPL-LD a HC2 owned station.
It's going to be aimed at eastern part of Albuquerque, so it's tightly focused beam pattern.
This new station is owned by Digital Network and what kind of programmings is unkown at this time.
9 Replies
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117 views
M
The 'get after it media' stations
www.getafteritmedia.com
Like Heartland, Retro, rev'n, Action etc
probably the same programming they have been putting on their other owned stations.
The 'get after it media' stations
Get After It Media
www.getafteritmedia.com
probably the same programming they have been putting on their other owned stations.
The 'get after it media' stations
Like Heartland, Retro, rev'n, Action etcGet After It Media
We already have those diginets here.
Yeah, there are some diginets like Heartland, Retro, The Family Channel diginetworks that we already have here in this market and we don't need duplicates, but bring the new diginets on like the Rev'n, Karate Acton movies, different kind of music videos on the new station. 
Yeah, there are some diginets like Heartland, Retro, The Family Channel diginetworks that we already have here in this market and we don't need duplicates, but bring the new diginets like Revn, Karate Acton movies, different kind of music videos on the new station.
I watch MovieSphere Gold channel a lot. Many recent movies on that digitnet
Yes that's a good channel MovieSphere, only thing is the missing CC on it. 
Supporting Founder
Since the Reds have there thread we should too!
Last watched Nine inch Nails
Next 3:10 to Yuma
Last watched Nine inch Nails
Next 3:10 to Yuma
5345 Replies
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509268 views
TWiT Tech Podcast Network
Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!
View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Ue4NAM2-j90
Direct YouTube Link - Paul's Microsoft Build 2026 Takeaways #shorts
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed
View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Ue4NAM2-j90
Direct YouTube Link - Paul's Microsoft Build 2026 Takeaways #shorts
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed
0 Replies
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10 views
TWiT Tech Podcast Network
Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25hZtsi5420
Direct YouTube Link - XBOX's 2026 Game Plan & Console Comeback
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25hZtsi5420
Direct YouTube Link - XBOX's 2026 Game Plan & Console Comeback
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed
0 Replies
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8 views
Supporting Founder
Lifetime Supporter
I have had good experiences with Brave but lately I am frustrated with it.
Now when I launch the app it shows a box at the bottom asking if I want to go back to the last opened page. It is in conveniently located and I would prefer to eliminate it.
Does anyone know how to do this?
Please let's not sidetrack the discussion into an exploration of why I don't care for it or a lecture about all the wonderful aspects of the feature. I just do not care for it.
Now when I launch the app it shows a box at the bottom asking if I want to go back to the last opened page. It is in conveniently located and I would prefer to eliminate it.
Does anyone know how to do this?
Please let's not sidetrack the discussion into an exploration of why I don't care for it or a lecture about all the wonderful aspects of the feature. I just do not care for it.
2 Replies
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55 views
I don't have an Android phone so I don't know if this will apply to the Brave settings on your android device but it works on the desktop for me.
Change this setting to either startup to a different website or a new tab page. I have mine set to open to google.com instead of where I left off and it doesn't ask me at the next startup if I want to open the last opened page unless it crashed.
Change this setting to either startup to a different website or a new tab page. I have mine set to open to google.com instead of where I left off and it doesn't ask me at the next startup if I want to open the last opened page unless it crashed.
Hello everyone.
I am new here and I done a search on MLB Extra Innings and DISH and it led me to this forum and so I signed up and hopefully someone can help me out with some issues.
First off, I am a DISH Outdoors customer and I signed up for service back in late October of 2025. I have a Wally HD Receiver and I am using the DISH Playmaker OS 2.1 as my Antenna that operates on 110 and 119 Western Arc and Alternative 61.5, 110, and 119 satellites. I signed up for MLB Extra Innings back in March before the season began. I was excited to be able to watch MLB Extra Innings because I love baseball and I use to have MLB Extra Innings on Satellite DIRECTV back in 2001-2004 and on Satellite DISH back in 2016 and 2017.
I was a bit disappointed when I found out that it is actually MLB.TV Simulcasted to DISH Satellite (More on that later) Anyways I have been watching faithfully almost every night however about a week ago there was a problem. When I went to go to the game to watch a game the game wouldn't come in an I would send a refresh signal to my receiver and then I could watch the programming and when I went to switch games at that games appointed time slot my Wally HD Receiver who lockup where I couldn't change any channels or view the guide and it would reboot. The next night when I turned to a game at game start it still had the background it shows before the game started and again send a refresh signal and went though this same thing over and over. I added a movie channel to my lineup and had issues with showing up my Dish Wally HD Receiver.
With an investigation after several calls with DISH Support it was determined that by going to the diagnostics screen that I had a issue with my Tuner because any changes that I made to my programming these changes would not take affect on the Wally HD Receiver. In other words that Wally HD Receiver was toast!
I too had reported MLB Extra Innings issue to DISH and they created a ticket for it and said that someone would investigate the issue. I too took notice that under MyDISH account under MLB Extra Innings always before it would show that I was subscribed and on auto-renew. Now it shows nothing and even after logging out and deleting my User Name and Password so that I can see it in guest mode it too doesn't even list a price and option for purchase as does the now WNBA League Pass.
After my DISH Receiver was ruined I had to buy a new Wally HD Receiver. I took advantage an bought 2 HD Wally's and added them both to my account. I called back to remove the old box off of the account and was told it was linked to MLB Extra Innings and the advanced technical support team said there was a glitch with MLB Extra Innings and hope to have a resolution in a couple of days and I could call back in to then to remove the box. But both the 2 new Wally HD Receivers are activated on my account. I asked them what the problem was with MLB Extra Innings and how long it would be and I was told there was a glitch as I asked to specify what they meant and got no answer. I again went and checked the MyDISH account page under the MLB Extra Innings page and it still doesn't list me as subscribed and after logging out and deleting my User Name and Password so I could it see it as a guest mode and it still doesn't list the price and option for purchase as it does for the WNBA League Pass.
I am afraid to boot up these boxes and go through the activation screen process because of the issues with the MLB Extra Innings in fear it will do the same or mess up my boxes from being able to receive MLB Extra Inning because or any other programing because I was told that MLB Extra Innings wouldn't come in on those new box because it was activated with the Wally that is ruined and it needs removed first.
Now I have no DISH service going on a week and miss my MLB Extra Innings when the races are just heating up and now with two boxes activated I can't boot up because I am afraid it will mess them up and I will be out the $180.00 or so dollars I made in purchase on the receivers.
Is anyone else experiencing issues with their MLB Extra Innings and does anyone really know what this so called glitch actually is? I can't seem to get a clear answer from anybody and don't even know if it will even be fixed or anyone really understands it.
Now to my previous statement on how I was disappointed that MLB Extra Innings is actually MLB.TV in simulcast. When I had MLB Extra Innings before with DIRECTV in 2001-2004 and with DISH form 2016 and 2017. They would always show the commercials for every teams broadcast from their local market and all games would be authentic just as if you were watching in their home market. After I quit DISH I went to streaming for awhile and I done MLB.TV and I hated their features because of the no commercials, the delayed times of getting back after the commercial break, and not being able to listen to what studios had to say when they would cut into the studios, and always looking at the screen during commercial breaks with a screen that says commercial break in progress and a silhouette background of MLB Players doing baseball things and the their crazy commercial breaks sound. I was excited to go back to DISH thinking I escaped the horrors of MLB.TV. Well its actually the same thing. I compared them side by side and actually MLB.TV is ahead by just a few seconds. So actually MLB Extra Innings on Satellite is delayed from time period wise from actually watching MLB.TV which shows it is simulcasted. My question is when did this start? And is this legal? This isn't what I know MLB Extra Innings to be. I too had signed up for NHL Center Ice this past winter and thank goodness its authentic! They still have the commercials and its like watching it as you were in their home network and its the way it oughta be even if you only do get one feed of NHL Center Ice per team on DISH and don't know which feed it is every night.
Looking forward to your responses. So far happy with DISH but unhappy with this last week and the ruining of a Wally HD Receiver.
I hope I can be of some contribution here as well.
Sincerely,
RJ T.
From Illinois
I am new here and I done a search on MLB Extra Innings and DISH and it led me to this forum and so I signed up and hopefully someone can help me out with some issues.
First off, I am a DISH Outdoors customer and I signed up for service back in late October of 2025. I have a Wally HD Receiver and I am using the DISH Playmaker OS 2.1 as my Antenna that operates on 110 and 119 Western Arc and Alternative 61.5, 110, and 119 satellites. I signed up for MLB Extra Innings back in March before the season began. I was excited to be able to watch MLB Extra Innings because I love baseball and I use to have MLB Extra Innings on Satellite DIRECTV back in 2001-2004 and on Satellite DISH back in 2016 and 2017.
I was a bit disappointed when I found out that it is actually MLB.TV Simulcasted to DISH Satellite (More on that later) Anyways I have been watching faithfully almost every night however about a week ago there was a problem. When I went to go to the game to watch a game the game wouldn't come in an I would send a refresh signal to my receiver and then I could watch the programming and when I went to switch games at that games appointed time slot my Wally HD Receiver who lockup where I couldn't change any channels or view the guide and it would reboot. The next night when I turned to a game at game start it still had the background it shows before the game started and again send a refresh signal and went though this same thing over and over. I added a movie channel to my lineup and had issues with showing up my Dish Wally HD Receiver.
With an investigation after several calls with DISH Support it was determined that by going to the diagnostics screen that I had a issue with my Tuner because any changes that I made to my programming these changes would not take affect on the Wally HD Receiver. In other words that Wally HD Receiver was toast!
I too had reported MLB Extra Innings issue to DISH and they created a ticket for it and said that someone would investigate the issue. I too took notice that under MyDISH account under MLB Extra Innings always before it would show that I was subscribed and on auto-renew. Now it shows nothing and even after logging out and deleting my User Name and Password so that I can see it in guest mode it too doesn't even list a price and option for purchase as does the now WNBA League Pass.
After my DISH Receiver was ruined I had to buy a new Wally HD Receiver. I took advantage an bought 2 HD Wally's and added them both to my account. I called back to remove the old box off of the account and was told it was linked to MLB Extra Innings and the advanced technical support team said there was a glitch with MLB Extra Innings and hope to have a resolution in a couple of days and I could call back in to then to remove the box. But both the 2 new Wally HD Receivers are activated on my account. I asked them what the problem was with MLB Extra Innings and how long it would be and I was told there was a glitch as I asked to specify what they meant and got no answer. I again went and checked the MyDISH account page under the MLB Extra Innings page and it still doesn't list me as subscribed and after logging out and deleting my User Name and Password so I could it see it as a guest mode and it still doesn't list the price and option for purchase as it does for the WNBA League Pass.
I am afraid to boot up these boxes and go through the activation screen process because of the issues with the MLB Extra Innings in fear it will do the same or mess up my boxes from being able to receive MLB Extra Inning because or any other programing because I was told that MLB Extra Innings wouldn't come in on those new box because it was activated with the Wally that is ruined and it needs removed first.
Now I have no DISH service going on a week and miss my MLB Extra Innings when the races are just heating up and now with two boxes activated I can't boot up because I am afraid it will mess them up and I will be out the $180.00 or so dollars I made in purchase on the receivers.
Is anyone else experiencing issues with their MLB Extra Innings and does anyone really know what this so called glitch actually is? I can't seem to get a clear answer from anybody and don't even know if it will even be fixed or anyone really understands it.
Now to my previous statement on how I was disappointed that MLB Extra Innings is actually MLB.TV in simulcast. When I had MLB Extra Innings before with DIRECTV in 2001-2004 and with DISH form 2016 and 2017. They would always show the commercials for every teams broadcast from their local market and all games would be authentic just as if you were watching in their home market. After I quit DISH I went to streaming for awhile and I done MLB.TV and I hated their features because of the no commercials, the delayed times of getting back after the commercial break, and not being able to listen to what studios had to say when they would cut into the studios, and always looking at the screen during commercial breaks with a screen that says commercial break in progress and a silhouette background of MLB Players doing baseball things and the their crazy commercial breaks sound. I was excited to go back to DISH thinking I escaped the horrors of MLB.TV. Well its actually the same thing. I compared them side by side and actually MLB.TV is ahead by just a few seconds. So actually MLB Extra Innings on Satellite is delayed from time period wise from actually watching MLB.TV which shows it is simulcasted. My question is when did this start? And is this legal? This isn't what I know MLB Extra Innings to be. I too had signed up for NHL Center Ice this past winter and thank goodness its authentic! They still have the commercials and its like watching it as you were in their home network and its the way it oughta be even if you only do get one feed of NHL Center Ice per team on DISH and don't know which feed it is every night.
Looking forward to your responses. So far happy with DISH but unhappy with this last week and the ruining of a Wally HD Receiver.
I hope I can be of some contribution here as well.
Sincerely,
RJ T.
From Illinois
8 Replies
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308 views
I know they are doing some major satellite work - the second satellite at 110 which is now in use, and they are moving channels between 119 and 110. Maybe since there are no other sports going on, have they temporarily cut back on the out of market sports packages? I am not sure. It looks like those channels are all coming from 119 TP 13, 110 TP 12, and 110 TP 09.
Also, Dish's Scheduled Satellite Maintenance page doesn't have anything going on:
my.dish.com
Also, Dish's Scheduled Satellite Maintenance page doesn't have anything going on:
MyDISH
Manage your DISH account online. Pay your bill, view programming, upgrade services, and access customer support at MyDISH.
R
This is a big shift for DISH. I just hope if Charlie Ergen does ever sell out to anyone that I can continue to use my DISH Playmaker and I can keep my Wally's. If its anything like what happened to DIRECTV a few years back which turned out to be a total disaster when AT&T acquired DIRECTV nothing there changed with boxes or anything and you continued to use the same service but I was very surprised to see AT&T sell it to TPG especially after they had just bought it now long ago.
RJ T.
From Illinois
Trying to get use to this forum and where everything is located at. I saw you responded from my post on the changes and took me a while to get back to see this post. But yes, it is exactly what I was thinking. I too noticed the change of MLB Extra Innings from 110 to 119. Because of 30 teams they have to algin everything. Only other sport going on PPV wise is WNBA League Pass and I do not have a subscription to that but maybe some else who has it can confirm what they done and what satellite and transponders they are on.I know they are doing some major satellite work - the second satellite at 110 which is now in use, and they are moving channels between 119 and 110. Maybe since there are no other sports going on, have they temporarily cut back on the out of market sports packages? I am not sure. It looks like those channels are all coming from 119 TP 13, 110 TP 12, and 110 TP 09.
Also, Dish's Scheduled Satellite Maintenance page doesn't have anything going on:
MyDISH
Manage your DISH account online. Pay your bill, view programming, upgrade services, and access customer support at MyDISH.
This is a big shift for DISH. I just hope if Charlie Ergen does ever sell out to anyone that I can continue to use my DISH Playmaker and I can keep my Wally's. If its anything like what happened to DIRECTV a few years back which turned out to be a total disaster when AT&T acquired DIRECTV nothing there changed with boxes or anything and you continued to use the same service but I was very surprised to see AT&T sell it to TPG especially after they had just bought it now long ago.
RJ T.
From Illinois
R
Noting went through on my screen. However take a look at this
my.dish.com
They have the page back up but it shows I need to purchase. On phone on hold waiting to connect to get this thing activated.
Will post shortly with update.
RJ T.
From Illinois
Update as of 6:40 P.M. CDT June 10, 2026...
Noting went through on my screen. However take a look at this
Dish TV
Manage your Dish TV account, programming, pay bills, and access your favorite channels with the MyDish app.
They have the page back up but it shows I need to purchase. On phone on hold waiting to connect to get this thing activated.
Will post shortly with update.
RJ T.
From Illinois
R
I now have MLB Extra Innings back! Look at the photo! (I did not include full image of the game due to copyright)
Let me just say it was rough! Very rough! And lets just say Charlie Ergen should be ashamed of his customer service team and how they handled this whole issue.
After multiple calls after my last post only to get the run around with answers like there are no refunds on MLB Extra Innings once the season starts, to they are working on it, to accessing my screen and sending multi hits to the box.
All I asked was one simple question remove the MLB Extra Innings which they confirmed I had and reauthorize free of charge. I was given a 1,000 reasons why this couldn't be done.
Well..........
I paid for it myself.... $120.00 current rate and it works!
I called back in to let them know what I done and what I thought of the customer service and told them I needed refunded. I was told they didn't do refunds....
Well again I called back and got someone who refunded the original payment of $150.00 back to my account. A $30 discount for all the hard trouble I went though.
It is now up to you all out there that have MLB Extra Innings to try to get them to do this but I am afraid you are going to have to take your own action and purchase again and beg for a refund or be out the $150.00 originally paid.
Persistence pays off. I don't give up very easily.
You can all go here below to make the purchase if you have any trouble.
my.dish.com
I hope it all works well for you! And best of luck to everyone who has it!
I will still be around on this forum. You all sound like a fine group of people! I hope I can contribute more.
Take care!
RJ T.
From Illinois
Update as of 6:40 P.M. CDT June 10, 2026...
Noting went through on my screen. However take a look at this
Dish TV
Manage your Dish TV account, programming, pay bills, and access your favorite channels with the MyDish app.
They have the page back up but it shows I need to purchase. On phone on hold waiting to connect to get this thing activated.
Will post shortly with update.
RJ T.
From Ill
Final Update... As of 8:08 P.M. CDT June 10, 2026.Update as of 6:40 P.M. CDT June 10, 2026...
Noting went through on my screen. However take a look at this
Dish TV
Manage your Dish TV account, programming, pay bills, and access your favorite channels with the MyDish app.
They have the page back up but it shows I need to purchase. On phone on hold waiting to connect to get this thing activated.
Will post shortly with update.
RJ T.
From Illinois
I now have MLB Extra Innings back! Look at the photo! (I did not include full image of the game due to copyright)
Let me just say it was rough! Very rough! And lets just say Charlie Ergen should be ashamed of his customer service team and how they handled this whole issue.
After multiple calls after my last post only to get the run around with answers like there are no refunds on MLB Extra Innings once the season starts, to they are working on it, to accessing my screen and sending multi hits to the box.
All I asked was one simple question remove the MLB Extra Innings which they confirmed I had and reauthorize free of charge. I was given a 1,000 reasons why this couldn't be done.
Well..........
I paid for it myself.... $120.00 current rate and it works!
I called back in to let them know what I done and what I thought of the customer service and told them I needed refunded. I was told they didn't do refunds....
Well again I called back and got someone who refunded the original payment of $150.00 back to my account. A $30 discount for all the hard trouble I went though.
It is now up to you all out there that have MLB Extra Innings to try to get them to do this but I am afraid you are going to have to take your own action and purchase again and beg for a refund or be out the $150.00 originally paid.
Persistence pays off. I don't give up very easily.
You can all go here below to make the purchase if you have any trouble.
Dish TV
Manage your Dish TV account, programming, pay bills, and access your favorite channels with the MyDish app.
I hope it all works well for you! And best of luck to everyone who has it!
I will still be around on this forum. You all sound like a fine group of people! I hope I can contribute more.
Take care!
RJ T.
From Illinois
iJustine
Time for another AWESOME video from iJustine!
View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/fGLCGahxnA4
Direct YouTube Link - Surprising photo editing feature in iOS 27
The official iJustine Website's Website
Buy her book!
View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/fGLCGahxnA4
Direct YouTube Link - Surprising photo editing feature in iOS 27
The official iJustine Website's Website
Buy her book!
0 Replies
·
12 views