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tripelo

Last reply Aug 31, 2016 · posted in Over the Air Television By RabbitEars.Info

WWWB? WBNA Decades

Hi Trip,

The equipment listed at RabbitEars for WWWB-LD, Clarkrange, TN seems a bit unusual:

1. Seems the same tower height (170' AGL) is to be transplanted to a higher ASL location.

2. The original (nondirectional) antenna is listed as 0.79 dB gain, however the replacement *directional* antenna (different manufacturer) is listed as exactly 0.79 dB gain.

It is possible that a directional and nondirectional antenna could have the exact same gain, but not likely.

3. The newer directional antenna is listed as a Kathrein HDCA-5.

If one looks at the specifications of a Scala HDCA-5 antenna; it is a Yagi type with more gain and a unidirectional pattern, whereas the new WWWB pattern is cardioid (heart shaped pattern).

Since the website doesnt like a link; search "HDCA-5_TV.pdf"

Any comments?

==============================

WBNA-8 Louisville was carrying 'Decades' on 21.5. This was personally viewed this back in
May/June.

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Trip

Aug 30, 2016

tripelo said:
Hi Trip,

The equipment listed at RabbitEars for WWWB-LD, Clarkrange, TN seems a bit unusual:

1. Seems the same tower height (170' AGL) is to be transplanted to a higher ASL location.

2. The original (nondirectional) antenna is listed as 0.79 dB gain, however the replacement *directional* antenna (different manufacturer) is listed as exactly 0.79 dB gain.

It is possible that a directional and nondirectional antenna could have the exact same gain, but not likely.

3. The newer directional antenna is listed as a Kathrein HDCA-5.

If one looks at the specifications of a Scala HDCA-5 antenna; it is a Yagi type with more gain and a unidirectional pattern, whereas the new WWWB pattern is cardioid (heart shaped pattern).

Since the website doesnt like a link; search "HDCA-5_TV.pdf"

Any comments?

1) This isn't entirely unreasonable. If both towers are of similar height, then that could be correct. In any case, it's the ASL height that's filed with the FCC and what is used for determinations on height. AGL is for informational purposes only.

2) That isn't antenna gain, it's total system gain. But more importantly, what you're seeing is a fluke in how LMS sends data back to CDBS. Check the original filing:

https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/d...Key=25076f9155269a950155932fb34c7f23&goBack=N

You'll note there isn't even a field for TPO. LMS, for whatever reason, copies the value from the previous license's TPO into that field in CDBS. I've noticed it elsewhere, but getting things in LMS fixed can be a hassle, so I've avoided discussing that one and focused on bigger issues. That actually reminds me, there are some stations getting sent back to CDBS without coordinates and I need to see about those...

3) Could be an array of them. Here's the link:

https://www.kathreinusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/HDCA-5_TV.pdf

If they're using four or five of them in an array, that could certainly make a pattern like the one they've filed.

tripelo said:
WBNA-8 Louisville was carrying 'Decades' on 21.5. This was personally viewed this back in
May/June.

Corrected. Thanks.

- Trip

tripelo

Aug 31, 2016

Thanks for your response.

.. That isn't antenna gain, it's total system gain...

Yes, and as you know, the antenna is what contributes positive gain, the other contributors are losses.

... Could be an array of them...

...If they're using four or five of them in an array, that could certainly make a pattern like the one they've filed.

True.

Coaxial cable, matching, and filter losses are usually the main losses to such a system. At channel 3 frequencies, these losses can be fairly low.

That HDCA-5 antenna is listed with a gain of 6.75 dB. An array to spread the energy in azimuth, as indicated by the WWWB pattern, could reduce the gain (depends on the number of units in the array and the method of stacking, horizontal and/or vertical).

So it is conceivable that system gain could be engineered to come up at exactly 0.79 dB.

Guess it may just be a question of why.

-------------------------------------------------

No worry, I realize you have many other things to think about.

Thanks again for your thoughtful response.

Trip

Aug 31, 2016

tripelo said:
Guess it may just be a question of why.

Er, it's actually a site code issue, kind of. If the gain is not available in the database, but the TPO is, then the website code calculates the system gain. Since the gain is not available for that application, but the probably-erroneous TPO is and is the same as the old license, and the ERP is the same as the old license, the calculated gain is also the same.

- Trip

tripelo

Aug 31, 2016

Trip said:
... a site code issue... the calculated gain is also the same.

OK, yes, it's a bit clearer now.

You referred to that earlier, I didn't catch it then.

Thanks.

osu1991

Pub Member / Supporter

Last reply A moment ago · posted in TV Shows

Marvel Television’s VisionQuest

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Oct 14 Disney+

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First 2 eps out and it's unsurprisingly great to watch Paul Bettany and James Spader work.

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Watched the first episode and enjoyed it.

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James Spader gets the best lines so far. I'm enjoying this series.

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Finished the 2nd episode tonight. I'm really liking it so far.

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Apparently I'm not a big enough nerd

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TheForce

Supporting Founder Pub Member / Supporter

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Anyone planning to buy the iphone 17?

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It may be the year to update my 13 to the 15.

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Foxbat said:
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"MysteryMan"

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Windows 10/11 Download

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If it wasn't for what I want, I wouldn't need any of this.

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WhiteBeard

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EarDemon said:
If it wasn't for what I want, I wouldn't need any of this.

Do I need a collection of handheld radios, scanners and speed enforcement countermeasures? Nope, but I want them. Very little, if any of the software used to interface with these devices is available on Linux.

To each there own but I've found that Windows can't do much more than Linux can. Can't have everything.

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EarDemon

Oct 14, 2026

WhiteBeard said:
To each there own but I've found that Windows can't do much more than Linux can. Can't have everything.

For niche use cases, yes I agree. Kali for ethical hacking and security testing, and running a Cacti server for network monitoring are the two things I have experience in. Plus thousands and thousands of other things, but for every day use I just can't see it. The owner of the GMRS repeater that I pay to access is changing the Tx DPL tones tomorrow, while Chirp is available on Linux, the software to program my MXT500 is not.

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harshness

Oct 15, 2026

EarDemon said:
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EarDemon

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harshness said:
What is so fantabulous about the Windows UI?

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harshness

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EarDemon said:
Because it's what I prefer.

I hope you don't believe that makes it wonderful (especially when you're using workarounds for Microsoft's malfeasance).

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HipKat

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EarDemon said:
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