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Darrell S
Pub Member / Supporter
Last reply · posted in DISH Network Support Forum
I noticed yesterday they changed the name of 3 audio channels in the 900 range to Otto.
They used to be labeled AUD17 for example.
Did Muzak sell 3 channels to some guy named Otto? :biggrin
14 Replies · 3900 views
DWS44
Disregard...poor reading comprehension on my part :oops:
Voyager6
Dish made an offer to buy Sprint earlier in the week? (mentioned in that Fierce article)

How'd we miss that?
That article was from 2013.
eddie willers
That article was from 2013.
I'm guessing they gave up on that since they are now going with Amazon's Alexa.
Bobby
beetle_bailey_by_kinhalchemist-d46tvfe.png
D
I'm guessing they gave up on that since they are now going with Amazon's Alexa.
And they signed with Rovi just a few months ago for Voice Recognition tech.
eddie willers
And they signed with Rovi just a few months ago for Voice Recognition tech.
That puzzled me so I had to research it. Here's what I found and what I think:

Rovi was originally Macrovision and has been gobbling portfolios ever since. The litigious little bastards recently purchased TiVo and even renamed themselves after their new acquisition. Rovi is now TiVo.

As any longtimer knows, there has been trouble and friction between Dish and TiVo going many years back. To my absolute shock, TiVo kept winning judgements in the lawsuit TiVo was able to judge-shop down to Texas. Charlie finally said "screw it" and paid them $500,000,000 to settle the suit and to "purchase" licensing rights to TiVo's DVR technology (I don't know if they ever implemented any of that purchased tech)

Reading the press releases on their 10 year agreement signed last year, it seems clear that Charlie is just paying the extortion fee to TiVo to keep them off their back as they move forward.

I'm pretty sure we will see only Amazon's voice recognition in Echostar products.
D
That puzzled me so I had to research it. Here's what I found and what I think:

Rovi was originally Macrovision and has been gobbling portfolios ever since. The litigious little bastards recently purchased TiVo and even renamed themselves after their new acquisition. Rovi is now TiVo.

As any longtimer knows, there has been trouble and friction between Dish and TiVo going many years back. To my absolute shock, TiVo kept winning judgements in the lawsuit TiVo was able to judge-shop down to Texas. Charlie finally said "screw it" and paid them $500,000,000 to settle the suit and to "purchase" licensing rights to TiVo's DVR technology (I don't know if they ever implemented any of that purchased tech)

Reading the press releases on their 10 year agreement signed last year, it seems clear that Charlie is just paying the extortion fee to TiVo to keep them off their back as they move forward.

I'm pretty sure we will see only Amazon's voice recognition in Echostar products.
Actually, it was Tom Rogers of TiVo who said, "screw it," using your phrase (I'm much too modest to use such a phrase :)). You are correct on some matters, but here is what may surprise you:

1. Back before TiVo sued, Dish, along with DirecTV, nearly all the cable companies and anyone else who was making DVR's and walking the earth, was sued by then Gemstar/TV Guide for patent infringement regarding EPG grid guides. Some just paid, others fought it. Dish PREVAILED in its defense of Gemstar/TV Guides claims, but on appeal, the Appellate Court ruled the because of some legal mess-up I can't recall, the verdict of the original trial was thrown out and a new trial ordered. Just two weeks later, Dish and Gemstar/TV Guide announce a settlement where Gemstar/TV Guide would get between $200 million to $300 million and Dish would get LIFETIME rights/licenses for ALL Gemstar/TV Guide patents. Both parties seemed pleased with the settlement. Remember terms of this settlement, because it repeats a few years later with TiVo.

2. Dish's long term strategy FINALLY worked after ruling after ruling NOT in Dish's favor by the esteemed Marshall TX judge whose motivation is simply to enrich his local community (look up how companies BUY their rulings in Marshall TX with the late Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia referring to it as " . . . a rogue court in Texas) and who chided Dish a few times and even commented that somehow, "They [Dish] must really believe they are not infringing." One "chide" in particular was when Dish altered or developed and implemented a "work-around" for trick play and "time warp" functions that would not violate TiVo's claims of how those TiVo patents worked without notifing the judge, but that was the stroke of LEGAL GENIUS.

The result of the trial was a loss for Dish (by a jury who never examined nor considered the code). Of course Dish appealed the ruling, and the Appellate Court chided the esteemed judge of Marshall TX for his own mistakes and in particular his rulings regarding the Dish "work around" and ruled (and I'm over-simplifying this for brevity in this already too long post) that because of Dish's "work around" that was implemented during the trial, there would have to be a NEW trial regarding this "work around" and it could NOT be taken into consideration with the original trial. The new question is "does this work around still infringe?" And since that is a separate question or a NEW method, it, logically, requires a separate, new trial (the trial judge was wrong to arbitrarily presume that it was infringing and denying a new trial just because the judge was upset that Dish did not tell him about the work around, but did so anyway as what looked like a form of punishment for Dish just because the judge was upset--really PO'd-- at the action).

In essence, TiVo's awards from the original trial would be drastically reduced that probably could barely pay the strapped company's legal fees as it teetered near death and would die if it didn't get some real money real soon. TiVo, would have to appeal the Appellate Court's ruling to the Supreme Court if it wanted the original ruling of the Marshall TX trial to stand. Now, TiVo had "a gun to its head" at this legal juncture. Did it want to spend another 7 years to get the vast majority of its supposed awards, a time that would stretch to when those patents would become or nearly become public domain?

A few weeks later, (after this set back for TiVo), Echostar and TiVo announced a settlement: Dish would pay about $300 million in total in payments spread over a few years to TiVo; in return Dish got LIFETIME rights/licenses to not only the disputed TiVo patents, but nearly ALL TiVo patents (there were a few left out), and in exchange, Dish would drop its suit against TiVo for infringement of Echostar patents (filed as a counter-suit) by granting TiVo lifetime licenses to a few of un-named Echostar patents. Do those terms sound familiar? IMHO, Charlie had that offer on the table for Tom to take for YEARS, but Tom wanted the big pot of money or the "gun to the head" position a ruling in favor of TiVo in Marshall TX would have given him. Interesting to note that when Tom Rogers was asked why he settled instead of going the distance and getting far more money, some in the form of payments for several DVR models still in Dish homes well after the trial, Mr. Rogers said, "I didn't want to wait for the Supreme Court." That quote qualifies as Tom Rogers of TiVo having said "screw it," not Charlie and Echostar. $300 million over time was NOT any where what the prize was supposed to be after prevailing in Marshall TX.

TiVo was on its own LIFE SUPPORT at that time and was DESPERATE for any loose change, but wisely took Charlie's (I believe LONG STANDING) offer also because TiVo could crow about a victory and intimidate the others (and I mean everybody but Comcast and DirecTV; TiVo sued other makers of cable co. DVR's, as well) who had also been served papers (Mr. Rogers said publicly that anyone who would consider talk to them about using TiVo patents or products would not be sued, but those who would "not talk to us [TiVo]" would certainly be sued. Tom Rogers could have saved TiVo from those punishing legal fees that, for years, cut into the very small company's earnings by just taking the chump change for Dish offer that IMHO Charlie had on the table years before, and Tom could have crowed about it, still.

3. Although many people like to say that TiVo and Dish/Echostar have "bad blood" or "hate each other," don't realize that Tom Rogers and Charlie Ergen were and still are friends--and friends all through the ugly trial. In one quarterly conference call, one of the questioners asked a question that included a presumption that Ergen and Rogers were angry or upset with each other over the lawsuit; I believe the term "bad blood" was used by the questioner. Charlie Ergen went out of his way to deny that and clear things up saying that it's not personal, it's business, "It's just a disagreement, an honest disagreement. Tom believes we are infringing, and I believe we are not infringing. He's got his engineers telling him we are and I've talked with my engineers [and contractors] [at great length], and I believe we are not infringing. It's just an honest disagreement." (The preceding was somewhat paraphrased, but it is ACCURATE to my memory). I believe he even went on to say that they do NOT "hate" each other and that there is no "bad blood".

In fact, on the very day of the first wire transfer from Echostar to TiVo as per the settlement, Charlie Egren was quoted as saying, "[after this payment] now, I expect Tom to pay for lunch the next time we meet." It was Charlie's humor and quite funny, but it demonstrates there was never any bad blood or anger between the two (Ergen was often funny and humorous on the Charlie Chats). In fact, one could suggest that Ergen may have even admired his good friend Tom Rogers' strategy to keep afloat a company that surely would have died years earlier had Rogers not sued every being on earth. TiVo got LOTS of payments from settlements, and it kept it alive just long enough for Rovi to buy it, and Rovi is keeping the TiVo name alive. Of course, Rovi is a patent troll of a sort itself. How fitting.

Companies sue each other every day, and even the ugly trial of Apple vs. Samsung in NO WAY prevented Apple from continuing to work with Samsung and have Samsung produce chips and other parts (like screens and more, I think) for its Apple products ALL DURING THE TRIAL. Why? Because it's business. Apple was not going to diminish its quality of products just because they brought suit against Samsung, and Samsung was not going to refuse the mountains of $$$ Apple was willing to pay Samsung for its expertise and quality parts. With neighbors it is personal; in business, it is rarely personal. Even Les Moonves, despite his foaming at the mouth and public conniptions and bullying actors and ORDERING CNET NOT to award Dish the coveted "Best of Show" award even AFTER CNET had already voted to do so, later quietly signed a reasonable re-transmission deal with Dish so long as it observed the C7 metric before enabling Auto-hop. At least one journalist at CNET quit because of Moonves' over-reaction.

4. What was not included in the many TiVo patents Dish negotiated lifetime patents, were those that were part of Rovi before that company bought TiVo and changed its name to TiVo. So, I think the reason Echostar re-signed a deal to use what was Rovi's voice command or activation patents was that Dish for quite some time was planning to implement its own voice controlled remote for the H3 and although one has to believe Echostar was working on a Amazon "Alexa" solution, it would be wise to have the Rovi patents if the Amazon solution didn't work out. Well, only VERY recently have we seen products implement devices that interface with Amazon's Echo because it has proven to be a pretty good solution and probably cheaper and easier than developing it's own tech or even licensing such tech when people already have Echo in their homes and they can immediately use the tech to control its DVR's and Amazon WANTS as many devices to use Echo so it enhances the value of Echo to the consumer and that's how Amazon will get in more homes than ever.

5. I would like to add that Ergen is probably the last person to ever say, "screw it" when it involves lawsuits. Dish/Echostar can be quite litigious itself, and Charlie Ergen has always stated that if he believes Dish/Echostar is "right" about something, then he will fight before settling. Ergen admitted to be being just "stubborn" on that point. Sometimes it is best to just settle early on, but sometimes he just takes it to heart that his company is not doing what a lawsuit says it is and he just becomes "stubborn" on the moral or meritorious issue. However, in time, Charlie has seen the light of a settlement such as avoiding a whole new trial with Gemstar/TV Guide and saving legal fees and paying, for Dish, a relatively small amount of money to put it to bed and move on. And Tom Rogers was wise NOT to wait for the Supreme Court (who likely would have rejected hearing the case), and take what I think Ergen had on the table for TiVo years earlier, but TiVo was looking at an award far greater than $300 million and a "gun to the head" position against Dish that TiVo could dictate terms of a licensing deal for years to come relating to the offending DVR models (although it looked like Dish was planning to change out all the "offending" DVR's for non-offending ones; it would have been COSTLY for Dish to do this, but it would be far cheaper than TiVo's terms for licensing).

This was a long post. So, sorry, but that whole TiVo vs. Echostar has a lot more to it, including the MORANIC jury who simply believed that because a TiVo got "lost" at Echostar, and the DP7000 was a disaster, Dish must have stolen the TiVo tech. Hardly an examination of the code nor consideration of testimony from 3rd parties who worked on Dish DVR's such as Broadcomm who supported Dish's claims, not TiVo's, and I'm sure they were ordered NOT to take into account any statements Tom Rogers made about "suing anyone who won't talk to us," when considering a verdict. Lots more, but I will go to bed now. Good night.
eddie willers
Actually, it was Tom Rogers of TiVo who said, "screw it," using your phrase (I'm much too modest to use such a phrase :)). You are correct on some matters, but here is what may surprise you:
Thanks for your indepth post.

It seems like you and agree on all points except who cried "Uncle" first and why. I was shocked that Dish "lost" especially when the "workaround" was rejected! And that Dish stopped there and gave in at that point is what led me to think Charlie just wanted it to go away. You may be right, but going to SCOTUS in no way meant that TiVo would lose. Just look at the ludicrous ruling in the Aereo case. Reading Scalia's dissent in that case makes losing this fine Jurist all the more a shame.

I remember Dish using Star Sight for their guide technology. In fact, that was one reason I was so excited to get my first Dish box: The DISHPlayer 7100.(Star Sight's logo printed on the box)

I had previously had a box sold by Star Sight that would interface with your cable box and was the first thing I ever saw where you could bring up the guide, find the show you wanted to record and "click"...it was done. At the time, the competition was VCR Plus+ (I think by GemStar) that was a remote control type device that you pointed at your gear and entered a code that was printed in the TV grid section of your local newspaper to set up your recording. Of course, Star Sight was so superior that Gemstar bought them and lawyers everywhere got all excited.

Again, thank for your enlightening post.
Peter Parker
Supporting Founder Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in DISH Network Support Forum
No idea what improvements might be involved.
30 Replies · 1772 views
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rvvaquero
That's a lot of information to ingest. However, I don't have the Hopper Plus and my 54 remote is doing crazy things to the Hopper 3. Several times each evening when I press the skip forward button several times to advance through a commercial, it switches the receiver either onto live TV or into suspension. Other buttons will also cause this randomly, I haven't established any patterns I can describe. I use "recall" to go back to my recorded program in progress.

Needless to say, something in the newer Hopper 3 softwares has caused the remote functioning to ......................malfunction. Evidently, it applies to third party remotes as well as DISH's own remotes.
GRB1959
That's a lot of information to ingest. However, I don't have the Hopper Plus and my 54 remote is doing crazy things to the Hopper 3. Several times each evening when I press the skip forward button several times to advance through a commercial, it switches the receiver either onto live TV or into suspension. Other buttons will also cause this randomly, I haven't established any patterns I can describe. I use "recall" to go back to my recorded program in progress.

Needless to say, something in the newer Hopper 3 softwares has caused the remote functioning to ......................malfunction. Evidently, it applies to third party remotes as well as DISH's own remotes.

This is exactly the same issue I was having as I had the Hopper 3 and 54 remote without the Hopper Plus and the symptoms were virtually identical to yours.
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ERSanders
We have had a corolary problem in this and the prior s/w. Using several different 40.0 remotes (yeah, we're old), when one pauses a live or recorded show it becomes a crap shoot whether it will step foreward the 30" as requested, jump to the end, or restart the episode. Tried the famous 60" reboot to no avail and have decided to live with it vs. a receiver swap risk.
T
I think there's a change to the "skip forward 30 seconds". With CBS that does not have auto-skip, if you stack up a bunch of 30 second forwards it seems to stop when the kangaroo signaling the end of the commercial break appears.
long_time_Dish
Also posted this in the 3rd party remote thread.

My Hopper 3 updated itself to H713 last week and the IR issue is worse now. On H711, I could be on an SD channel for several hours and the IR side of my H3 would still be responsive without my having to tap the View button on my Pronto Pro every 15 minutes. Now, if I stay even on an SD channel without tapping the View button at least once an hour, it becomes unresponsive to my Pronto Pro without tapping the View button at least 5-20 times, just like on the HD and 4K channels. So, H713 actually made the issue worse. :(

brittanygarden
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WildBill
· posted in DISH Network Support Forum
I've been having intermittent problems with Amazon Prime video programs loading using the H3 guide listing. I can get to the program I want to watch, but when I try to view it, it starts to load and then stalls. Eventually, a screen pops up saying "something went wrong, try again later". I've tried rebooting the hopper without success. Sometimes switching the HDMI input on my LG TV works, but not always. I don't have this problem on my phone or computer, so it is not a network or router issue.

I did a quick google search and found that this is a common problem associated with overloading or corruption of the data cache in the Amazon app and the solution is to clear the cache. Easy to do on a computer or phone, but I don't know how to do this on the H3. If anyone a solution or suggestion, I'd appreciate some help. Thanks.
0 Replies · 7 views
dfergie
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU!
Last reply · posted in What's Cooking?
We have a Breakfast and Dinner thread so... :)
Continuing from the Breakfast thread, found Cornbread mix so ...
Yellow Cornbread Mix
2 Hatch Green Chiles -diced
1 Egg
2/3 cup of milk
add to greased pan
Bake for 400f 20-25 minutes(From instructions)
now to put together and try... this to go with pinto beans...
5452 Replies · 336389 views
dfergie
IMG_5955.webp

Sweet tea…
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TRG
TRG
Tuna salad sandwich on toasted honey whole wheat bread with a handful of kettle chips. Water.
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TRG
TRG
Breakfast for lunch. Crispy corned beef hash, home fries, two over easy eggs and sourdough toast.

1653.webp
TRG
TRG
Grabbed a burrito on the run. Beef, pinto beans, green chile and cheese. Stewart's cream soda.

burr.webp
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dfergie
Beef, bean green chile, cheese homemade burritos here... Water
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Scott Greczkowski
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne


Get it?


An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....
68707 Replies · 2683050 views
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dishstaller
The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face - Roberta Flack
harshness
In the Still of the Night - The Five Satins
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Bobby
I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For - David Cook
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sdfntx
Looking for the Next Best Thing - Warren Zevon
long_time_Dish
Werewolves Of London - Warren Zevon
dishstaller
Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
Was raining yesterday so I went to Sams up in Dothan to stock up on some things. Haven't been there in quite a while. I was amazed at how large most of the TVs were. When I walked in they had a 100 in Vizio (I think it was Vizio) that was marked down to something like $1,200. The first rows of TVs were all in the 80 in + sizes. The next couple of rows had the "smaller" models....those 75 and under. I was amazed at how small the 75s looked when lined up with the larger screens.
4 Replies · 52 views
osu1991
Q-LED and Mini LED panels have improved the picture quality and the tv's are so thin and nearly without bezels now. I've thought about replacing the 75in 4k DV/HDR LED Sony in my living room with a newer 86in. That's as big as I can go without construction changes. I watch the 75in 4k DV/HDR Q-LED in my bedroom and the difference between the two is very noticeable. There's nothing wrong with the living room tv though and I don't now that I actually watch enough anymore to really justify it. I could move it out to the patio but the 65in Q-LED out there looks really good and I'd have to change the mount to accomdate a larger tv out there.
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Foxbat
I'm at a limit for TV sizes at this time. My Father-in-Law crafted a custom entertainment center for our family room and we were restricted from going too big based on the side cabinets and central bridge fitting in the width of the room. It turns out to be where a 55" screen with bezels fits but no 65" bezel-less screen can fit. I think there was a brief period where 58" screens where a thing, but no more.

So, no huge screens for the Foxbat's…
TRG
TRG
I'm at a limit for TV sizes at this time. My Father-in-Law crafted a custom entertainment center for our family room and we were restricted from going too big based on the side cabinets and central bridge fitting in the width of the room. It turns out to be where a 55" screen with bezels fits but no 65" bezel-less screen can fit. I think there was a brief period where 58" screens where a thing, but no more.

So, no huge screens for the Foxbat's…

55" is plenty big.
dishstaller
55" is plenty big.
And to think....I was SO proud of myself when I bought a 27 in TV in the late 80s. Everyone just had a 25 in so I was really in high cotton.
TRG
TRG
Pub Member / Supporter
· posted in The Chit Chat Club
I've pretty much done most things in Ireland and I'm thinking about the other side of the Irish sea. I'm thinking about traveling to Wales this summer. My second choice would be Scotland. I don't want anything to do with London except maybe landing in Heathrow and then escaping quickly.

Any tips or experiences to share?
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