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Titanium Satellite Polarity control case
Here's a fun one.
Linkbox 9000iLocal
Ti ASC1
250' of cable
Uniden 10' w/ VonWiess linear mover
Chapparal C/Ku servo-driven feed
Worked great up until a few weeks ago. Started losing servos -- or apparently so -- polarity control would disappear.
Swapped three of them. Then I took a pull and hooked it directly to the ASC1 terms. It was pulsed into gear strip! Tore the gearbox cover, re-indexed. Worked fine.
Fixed the other two this way, swapped the one on the feed. This time, to aid my diagnosis, I connected both the servo on the antenna and one in the house -- in parallel. This allowed me to observe the servo's behavior.
It turned out that moving the linear actuator (changing the dish longitude) developed a slow-decay parasitic voltage on the servo's pulse wire! A quick bump east or west simply bumped polarity like a windshield wiper. A long travel (more than 5 Reed clicks) sent the servo into gear-strip.
Wires on this system are a mix:
Leg 1: Cat6 shielded takes all signals from the ASC1 to the junction / TVSS block in my basement. All signals (m1; m2; s1; s2; gnd; pulse; +5vdc).
Leg2: motor wire m1;m2 ride AWG 10 solid dir bur pair. S1; S2 ride Cat6 shielded WBU/BU. Servo gnd on WOR/OR parallel for reduced loss. Servo pulse on WGN/GN parallel. Servo +5vdc on WBR/BR.
Leg 3: At the antenna mast, the leg2 wires hit a junction. new cat6 shielded wire 1 runs to the motor, carrying M1;M2;S1;S2. New Cat6 shielded wire 2 runs to the feed, gnd;servo;5vdc.
Placing the servo at the dish mast junction didn't change the phantom pulse voltage. Placing it at the basement junction, or directly behind the ASC1, oror dissconnecting the servo all together squelched it.
Removing motor wire from ASC1 and applying E/W command pulse squelched it as well. Disconnecting all servo wires from ASC1 and measuring the wires showed linear motor action deffinitely created a slow decay voltage... 1.2v was observed after a 10 second motor run, and with only the servo itself connected to the wires at the antenna, with no connection back in the house, measuring the wires, the voltage took almost 7 seconds to fully discharge. Servo exhibts about 20k ohms between gnd/pulse wires.
It was apparent that something capacitive was going in between the motor wires and the servo wires. The loading of the servo pulse circuit isn't enough to squelched it alone. Since we don't want to disturb the pulse waveform, I elected to add some serious inductance to the motor wires at the point where they connect to the ASC1. Thought being, if there is excessive stray C (reactance) involving these wires, we should be able to cancel that reactance with series L. THIS GREATLY REDUCED THE PHANTOM PULSE! There is still enough getting on the pulse line to "bump" the servo. But it comes right back. Motor performance doesn't seem to suffer with this added L in the M1;M2 lines.
Hoping to get some further testing underway (including TDR and impedance measurements on my power control lines to my antenna). Will update when I have more data. Theories abound, but I don't want to invest a lot in them until I get more data on what is going on here.... and why this condition very suddenly appeared.
99% SURE It does NOT have anything to do with the ASC1.... I call it out above on because many of us use this controller with our antennae for longitude + fine polarity control (and it works). Indeed this problem would only show up on a system so or similarly equipped. I suspect a wiring change or motor behavior change to be at fault.
Linkbox 9000iLocal
Ti ASC1
250' of cable
Uniden 10' w/ VonWiess linear mover
Chapparal C/Ku servo-driven feed
Worked great up until a few weeks ago. Started losing servos -- or apparently so -- polarity control would disappear.
Swapped three of them. Then I took a pull and hooked it directly to the ASC1 terms. It was pulsed into gear strip! Tore the gearbox cover, re-indexed. Worked fine.
Fixed the other two this way, swapped the one on the feed. This time, to aid my diagnosis, I connected both the servo on the antenna and one in the house -- in parallel. This allowed me to observe the servo's behavior.
It turned out that moving the linear actuator (changing the dish longitude) developed a slow-decay parasitic voltage on the servo's pulse wire! A quick bump east or west simply bumped polarity like a windshield wiper. A long travel (more than 5 Reed clicks) sent the servo into gear-strip.
Wires on this system are a mix:
Leg 1: Cat6 shielded takes all signals from the ASC1 to the junction / TVSS block in my basement. All signals (m1; m2; s1; s2; gnd; pulse; +5vdc).
Leg2: motor wire m1;m2 ride AWG 10 solid dir bur pair. S1; S2 ride Cat6 shielded WBU/BU. Servo gnd on WOR/OR parallel for reduced loss. Servo pulse on WGN/GN parallel. Servo +5vdc on WBR/BR.
Leg 3: At the antenna mast, the leg2 wires hit a junction. new cat6 shielded wire 1 runs to the motor, carrying M1;M2;S1;S2. New Cat6 shielded wire 2 runs to the feed, gnd;servo;5vdc.
Placing the servo at the dish mast junction didn't change the phantom pulse voltage. Placing it at the basement junction, or directly behind the ASC1, oror dissconnecting the servo all together squelched it.
Removing motor wire from ASC1 and applying E/W command pulse squelched it as well. Disconnecting all servo wires from ASC1 and measuring the wires showed linear motor action deffinitely created a slow decay voltage... 1.2v was observed after a 10 second motor run, and with only the servo itself connected to the wires at the antenna, with no connection back in the house, measuring the wires, the voltage took almost 7 seconds to fully discharge. Servo exhibts about 20k ohms between gnd/pulse wires.
It was apparent that something capacitive was going in between the motor wires and the servo wires. The loading of the servo pulse circuit isn't enough to squelched it alone. Since we don't want to disturb the pulse waveform, I elected to add some serious inductance to the motor wires at the point where they connect to the ASC1. Thought being, if there is excessive stray C (reactance) involving these wires, we should be able to cancel that reactance with series L. THIS GREATLY REDUCED THE PHANTOM PULSE! There is still enough getting on the pulse line to "bump" the servo. But it comes right back. Motor performance doesn't seem to suffer with this added L in the M1;M2 lines.
Hoping to get some further testing underway (including TDR and impedance measurements on my power control lines to my antenna). Will update when I have more data. Theories abound, but I don't want to invest a lot in them until I get more data on what is going on here.... and why this condition very suddenly appeared.
99% SURE It does NOT have anything to do with the ASC1.... I call it out above on because many of us use this controller with our antennae for longitude + fine polarity control (and it works). Indeed this problem would only show up on a system so or similarly equipped. I suspect a wiring change or motor behavior change to be at fault.
4 Replies
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1779 views
Not so fun.... but easy to solve.
Agree 100% with Brct203. Note in the ASC1 manual that shielded servo and shielded servo wires as well as much heavier gauge motor wire is recommended. Maybe the M1/M2 wires overheated in the Cat 6 and started melting insulation or ??? Thin gauge wires under load make great heating elements!
The motor power in your system is coupling with the servo circuit within the unshielded servo distribution wiring. Servo distribution shielding is a very common problem in robotics and there some great Google referenced articles on servo shielding and grounding.
Cat 6 is not suitable for BUD operation. The M1/M2 wire gauge will yield excessive voltage loss and lack of servo and sensor distribution shielding isolating each run will cause many problems. If the Cat 6 shield is connected to GND, it is not shielding, but rather it is capturing the motor power and sensor cycle noise inside the distribution cable.
If you want to continue to use the cat 6, maybe use only for the servo circuit or only for the sensor circuit distribution?
For M1/M2 distribution, I would run an appropriate gauge low voltage (example): www.homedepot.com/p/Southwire-100-ft-12-2-Black-Stranded-CU-Low-Voltage-Landscape-Lighting-Wire-55213443/202316562
For S1/S2 and Servo distribution (example): www.homedepot.com/p/Southwire-By-the-Foot-22-2-Gray-Stranded-CU-CL3R-Shielded-Security-Cable-57572199/204725140
For S1/S2 distribution, connect the shield only at the ASC1 GND terminal and leave open at the actuator. For the servo distribution, use the shield as the GND and connect on both sides.
In addition, you may also find that a capacitor across the motor terminals at the actuator may suppress motor run noise.
Agree 100% with Brct203. Note in the ASC1 manual that shielded servo and shielded servo wires as well as much heavier gauge motor wire is recommended. Maybe the M1/M2 wires overheated in the Cat 6 and started melting insulation or ??? Thin gauge wires under load make great heating elements!
The motor power in your system is coupling with the servo circuit within the unshielded servo distribution wiring. Servo distribution shielding is a very common problem in robotics and there some great Google referenced articles on servo shielding and grounding.
Cat 6 is not suitable for BUD operation. The M1/M2 wire gauge will yield excessive voltage loss and lack of servo and sensor distribution shielding isolating each run will cause many problems. If the Cat 6 shield is connected to GND, it is not shielding, but rather it is capturing the motor power and sensor cycle noise inside the distribution cable.
If you want to continue to use the cat 6, maybe use only for the servo circuit or only for the sensor circuit distribution?For M1/M2 distribution, I would run an appropriate gauge low voltage (example): www.homedepot.com/p/Southwire-100-ft-12-2-Black-Stranded-CU-Low-Voltage-Landscape-Lighting-Wire-55213443/202316562
For S1/S2 and Servo distribution (example): www.homedepot.com/p/Southwire-By-the-Foot-22-2-Gray-Stranded-CU-CL3R-Shielded-Security-Cable-57572199/204725140
For S1/S2 distribution, connect the shield only at the ASC1 GND terminal and leave open at the actuator. For the servo distribution, use the shield as the GND and connect on both sides.
In addition, you may also find that a capacitor across the motor terminals at the actuator may suppress motor run noise.
K
I hear y'all on ragging me on the wire choice. 
. No prob. Here is some more detail... It is not quite so ugly as 100% cat.
Leg 1 is about 15' (ASC1 TO BASEMENT TVSS JUNCT) .as described 1 run Cat6.
LEG 2 is abt 225' (HOUSE TO ANT MAST). Here, motor hops off to a larger gauge -- direct burial Romex, #10(first post was wrong).
Leg3-1 is longer to the servo (20'). Separate leg3-2 to the motor is shorter.
Everywhere Cat6 carries motor power (except leg1) it's on two pairs. Measuring 38vdc at ASC1, 34.6vdc at the mast junction box. Wide open R on all conductors when open at antenna. Less than 2 ohmswhen paralleled at antenna.
So the only spot where M(x) and Servo(x) are /not/ shielded from one another is Leg1. Place a servo here at leg1-leg2 junction, parallel one upstairs, behaves.
Sensor wires do follow the servo wires all the way to leg3... So I can see a C path maybe here..... Sort of. But leg1 would be an easy enough run to break M(x) out on separate shielded conductors. Agree that is a more appropriate plan. The XYL is used to the wires now so she probably wouldn't mind +1.
Bugger is that this wiring scheme worked great for over a year ...
Seriously, thank you guys for your input here. And yes.... Problems like this are fun to me.
. No prob. Here is some more detail... It is not quite so ugly as 100% cat.Leg 1 is about 15' (ASC1 TO BASEMENT TVSS JUNCT) .as described 1 run Cat6.
LEG 2 is abt 225' (HOUSE TO ANT MAST). Here, motor hops off to a larger gauge -- direct burial Romex, #10(first post was wrong).
Leg3-1 is longer to the servo (20'). Separate leg3-2 to the motor is shorter.
Everywhere Cat6 carries motor power (except leg1) it's on two pairs. Measuring 38vdc at ASC1, 34.6vdc at the mast junction box. Wide open R on all conductors when open at antenna. Less than 2 ohmswhen paralleled at antenna.
So the only spot where M(x) and Servo(x) are /not/ shielded from one another is Leg1. Place a servo here at leg1-leg2 junction, parallel one upstairs, behaves.
Sensor wires do follow the servo wires all the way to leg3... So I can see a C path maybe here..... Sort of. But leg1 would be an easy enough run to break M(x) out on separate shielded conductors. Agree that is a more appropriate plan. The XYL is used to the wires now so she probably wouldn't mind +1.
Bugger is that this wiring scheme worked great for over a year ...
Seriously, thank you guys for your input here. And yes.... Problems like this are fun to me.
Staff member
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Stargate SG-1 cancelled, Atlantis renewed
Monday - August 21, 2006 | by Darren Sumner
The future of Stargate is in question today, as SCI FI Channel has cancelled the long-running Stargate SG-1, Multichannel News reported today and a GateWorld source has confirmed. The news regrettably follows the airing of the show's milestone two-hundredth episode on Friday.
Stargate Atlantis, meanwhile, has been renewed for a fourth season, with the network hoping to see that the spin-off series can stand alone, according to a source.
Source Gateworld
Monday - August 21, 2006 | by Darren Sumner
The future of Stargate is in question today, as SCI FI Channel has cancelled the long-running Stargate SG-1, Multichannel News reported today and a GateWorld source has confirmed. The news regrettably follows the airing of the show's milestone two-hundredth episode on Friday.
Stargate Atlantis, meanwhile, has been renewed for a fourth season, with the network hoping to see that the spin-off series can stand alone, according to a source.
Source Gateworld
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Watch Stargate SG-1 for Free Online | Pluto TV
Stargate SG-1 picks up where the blockbuster film left off as the SG-1 team sets out to explore the mysteries of the Stargate and the worlds beyond it in the pulse-pounding series which became a worldwide phenomenon and a science fiction classic. Stream Stargate SG-1 for free on Pluto TV.
pluto.tv
Staff member
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We have a Breakfast and Dinner thread so... 
Continuing from the Breakfast thread, found Cornbread mix so ...
Yellow Cornbread Mix
2 Hatch Green Chiles -diced
1 Egg
2/3 cup of milk
add to greased pan
Bake for 400f 20-25 minutes(From instructions)
now to put together and try... this to go with pinto beans...
Continuing from the Breakfast thread, found Cornbread mix so ...
Yellow Cornbread Mix
2 Hatch Green Chiles -diced
1 Egg
2/3 cup of milk
add to greased pan
Bake for 400f 20-25 minutes(From instructions)
now to put together and try... this to go with pinto beans...
5445 Replies
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335498 views
Staff member
HERE TO HELP YOU!
Cutting Edge
Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!
So let the game continue!
The last song was added by Bobby who posted...
One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters
CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!
Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game
Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.
Example:
Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow
Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio
Another example:
Ride the Lightning -- Metallica
Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne
Get it?
An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....
So let the game continue!
The last song was added by Bobby who posted...
One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters
CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!
Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game
Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.
Example:
Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow
Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio
Another example:
Ride the Lightning -- Metallica
Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne
Get it?
An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....
68533 Replies
·
2673140 views
TWiT Tech Podcast Network
Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beerzKBCSUo
Direct YouTube Link - Elon Musk's Wildest Demo Yet! Is It Real?
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beerzKBCSUo
Direct YouTube Link - Elon Musk's Wildest Demo Yet! Is It Real?
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed
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Supporting Founder
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This is a thread that will keep you apprised of 4K events that will be showing on Dish channel 540. Keep looking here for information.
As of today, 9-27-17, there are no scheduled events posted for the next 2 weeks. That is subject to change on a daily basis.
As of today, 9-27-17, there are no scheduled events posted for the next 2 weeks. That is subject to change on a daily basis.
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Supporting Founder
Really excited for this season with Kentucky having a new coach and some really exciting recruits. Probably won't last long, but here's hoping this season is great.
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M
They get cruel sometimes, very very cruel.
. Hated to see my dawgs go down but I still say being ranked #1 is a hex on you!
They get cruel sometimes, very very cruel.
. Hated to see my dawgs go down but I still say being ranked #1 is a hex on you!
Yup, I agree, I'd rather be 2 or 3 till the last few weeks.They get cruel sometimes, very very cruel.
Season 2 order already in hand:
'Star Trek: Starfleet Academy' Renewed for Season 2, Tatiana Maslany to Guest Star in Season 1
I've not been optimistic about this show based on what I've read so far. Seems to be aimed at a younger audience. Interesting though that Tatiana Maslany will have some sort of role.
'Star Trek: Starfleet Academy' Renewed for Season 2, Tatiana Maslany to Guest Star in Season 1
I've not been optimistic about this show based on what I've read so far. Seems to be aimed at a younger audience. Interesting though that Tatiana Maslany will have some sort of role.
83 Replies
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3298 views
I don't know, but I still don't like her walking through the station or the academy with out her shoes. It looks unprofessional and very "hippy like" for someone of her status and I personally don't get off to feet, so there is that.
Stay out of my office. I rarely have shoes or socks on in the office. My office and business is at home thoughI don't know, but I still don't like her walking through the station or the academy with out her shoes. It looks unprofessional and very "hippy like" for someone of her status and I personally don't get off to feet, so there is that.
Linus Tech Tips
Time for another AWESOME video from Linus Tech Tips!
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-QiUAMda7Y
Direct YouTube Link - This video was pain and suffering
Linus on Facebook
The LTT Store
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-QiUAMda7Y
Direct YouTube Link - This video was pain and suffering
Linus on Facebook
The LTT Store
0 Replies
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18 views
