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I'd like to get KQMK-LD, physical channel 21, virtual 25. Please reference RabbitEars.Info . My working antenna (see complete setup below) is pointed to the NE and I am picking up physical channels (listed in order of field strength) 26, 29, 22, 20, 31, 12, 32, 17, 15, 33, and 35. Channel 21 has a field strength less than 33 and 35, and is in the same general direction. I thought I should be able to pick it up. However, when I look at fccdata.org the station is in a different location on the map: FCCdata.org - powered by REC
There are two locations in fccdata.org. The most recent matches with rabbitears.info, another site marked as pending shows the Ashland, NE location.
Sorry I don't know how to interpret FCC application data. Where is the station right now? To the NE or NW?
My antenna setup is on a 50-foot tower and clears the local terrain by around 15'. I have an RCA ANT3038XR pointed to the NE and a Five Star Yagi 2020 Antenna pointed to the SE. They are combined with a Wineguard CC-7870 and then into a Wineguard pre-amp on mast. Currently the cables from the antenna to the combiner are not correct, they are of different lengths and pretty sure the cable to the Five Star is damaged. As soon as the wind dies down around here I'm going to replace with equal length cables. I'd like to have an idea of where to point the Five Star when I'm up on the tower. The SE direction was intended to capture the Lincoln market but turns out I won't grab any networks I don't already have and there is competing physical channels, so I'm going to move it. At least I'll point it in the same direction as the RCA and get some gain. I could point to the NW if that's really where KQMK-LD is. I'll have my phone so I can re-scan my DVR while I'm on the tower to verify my channels.
Fairly new at this, any advice is appreciated.
There are two locations in fccdata.org. The most recent matches with rabbitears.info, another site marked as pending shows the Ashland, NE location.
Sorry I don't know how to interpret FCC application data. Where is the station right now? To the NE or NW?
My antenna setup is on a 50-foot tower and clears the local terrain by around 15'. I have an RCA ANT3038XR pointed to the NE and a Five Star Yagi 2020 Antenna pointed to the SE. They are combined with a Wineguard CC-7870 and then into a Wineguard pre-amp on mast. Currently the cables from the antenna to the combiner are not correct, they are of different lengths and pretty sure the cable to the Five Star is damaged. As soon as the wind dies down around here I'm going to replace with equal length cables. I'd like to have an idea of where to point the Five Star when I'm up on the tower. The SE direction was intended to capture the Lincoln market but turns out I won't grab any networks I don't already have and there is competing physical channels, so I'm going to move it. At least I'll point it in the same direction as the RCA and get some gain. I could point to the NW if that's really where KQMK-LD is. I'll have my phone so I can re-scan my DVR while I'm on the tower to verify my channels.
Fairly new at this, any advice is appreciated.
24 Replies
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10261 views
R
ATSC Recommended Practice:
Receiver Performance Guidelines
Document A/74:2010, 7 April 2010
RECEIVER PERFORMANCE GUIDELINES
5.1 Sensitivity
A DTV receiver should achieve a bit error rate in the transport stream of no worse than 3x10E-6 (i.e., the FCC Advisory Committee on Advanced Television Service, ACATS, Threshold of Visibility, TOV) for input RF signal levels directly to the tuner from –83 dBm (-34 dBmV) to –5 dBm (+44 dBmV)for both the VHF and UHF bands.
5.2 Multi-Signal Overload
The DTV receiver should accommodate more than one undesired, high-level, NSTC or DTV signal at its input, received from transmission facilities that are in close proximity to one another. For purposes of this guideline, it should be assumed that multiple signals, each approaching –8 dBm (+41 dBmV), will exist at the input of the receiver.
Presumably for Two Strong Input Signals.
Max Signal Input and Output would need to be DERATED for more than two stromg signals.
In your case:
WOWT -27 dBm + 12 dB antenna gain + 18 dB LNA-200 gain = +3 dBm; tuner overload
Intermodulation Distortion
The IMD creates new spurious signals within the preamp (or tuner) itself that can interfere with the reception of your weakest desired signals if the spurious signals are stronger than the noise floor of the weakest desired signals. The spurious signals are caused by the interaction between two or more of your strongest signals.
IMD is not the only distortion that can be created within the preamp; you can also have distortion caused by signals so strong that the top of the strong signals are clipped, which causes compression of the signals. This can be seen if you increase the input to the preamp by, for example, 10 dB and the output increases by less than 10 dB.
Spurious Free Dynamic Range
The Spurious Free Dynamic Range needed is the difference in strength between your strongest signal and your weakest desired signal, plus 16 dB for the SNR of the weakest signal, using the dBm Pwr scale on your tvfool report. This difference is expressed in terms of dB, not dBm, because the original units are the same. The difference between the strongest signal and the weakest signal is the Signal Dynamic Range/Dynamic Range, which is 16 db less than the SFDR, because it doesn't include the SNR of the weakest signal.
Another way to think of SFDR is from the top of the strongest signal down to the bottom (noise floor) of the weakest desired signal. The top of the spurious signals must be at or below the noise floor of the weak signals if they are not to cause interference. The Signal Dynamic Range is from the top of the strongest signal down to the top of the weakest desired signal.
You can also use the Noise Margin or Signal Margin scale for your calculations, but I prefer to use the dBm Pwr scale because most tuners drop out around -85 dBm.
Receiver Performance Guidelines
Document A/74:2010, 7 April 2010
RECEIVER PERFORMANCE GUIDELINES
5.1 Sensitivity
A DTV receiver should achieve a bit error rate in the transport stream of no worse than 3x10E-6 (i.e., the FCC Advisory Committee on Advanced Television Service, ACATS, Threshold of Visibility, TOV) for input RF signal levels directly to the tuner from –83 dBm (-34 dBmV) to –5 dBm (+44 dBmV)for both the VHF and UHF bands.
5.2 Multi-Signal Overload
The DTV receiver should accommodate more than one undesired, high-level, NSTC or DTV signal at its input, received from transmission facilities that are in close proximity to one another. For purposes of this guideline, it should be assumed that multiple signals, each approaching –8 dBm (+41 dBmV), will exist at the input of the receiver.
Presumably for Two Strong Input Signals.
Max Signal Input and Output would need to be DERATED for more than two stromg signals.
In your case:
WOWT -27 dBm + 12 dB antenna gain + 18 dB LNA-200 gain = +3 dBm; tuner overload
Intermodulation Distortion
The IMD creates new spurious signals within the preamp (or tuner) itself that can interfere with the reception of your weakest desired signals if the spurious signals are stronger than the noise floor of the weakest desired signals. The spurious signals are caused by the interaction between two or more of your strongest signals.
IMD is not the only distortion that can be created within the preamp; you can also have distortion caused by signals so strong that the top of the strong signals are clipped, which causes compression of the signals. This can be seen if you increase the input to the preamp by, for example, 10 dB and the output increases by less than 10 dB.
Spurious Free Dynamic Range
The Spurious Free Dynamic Range needed is the difference in strength between your strongest signal and your weakest desired signal, plus 16 dB for the SNR of the weakest signal, using the dBm Pwr scale on your tvfool report. This difference is expressed in terms of dB, not dBm, because the original units are the same. The difference between the strongest signal and the weakest signal is the Signal Dynamic Range/Dynamic Range, which is 16 db less than the SFDR, because it doesn't include the SNR of the weakest signal.
Another way to think of SFDR is from the top of the strongest signal down to the bottom (noise floor) of the weakest desired signal. The top of the spurious signals must be at or below the noise floor of the weak signals if they are not to cause interference. The Signal Dynamic Range is from the top of the strongest signal down to the top of the weakest desired signal.
You can also use the Noise Margin or Signal Margin scale for your calculations, but I prefer to use the dBm Pwr scale because most tuners drop out around -85 dBm.
R
With the LNA200, it is necessary to insert the attenuator before the preamp to keep it from being overloaded. Even a small amount of overload will produce IMD that will create spurious signals that will raise the noise floor and reduce the SNR of RF21. I redid the SFDR diagram to make it a little clearer, I hope:
An alternative is the CM3410, which isn't quite as good as the ZHL1010, but is much less expensive.
I'm still curious to see what the channel 21 signal looks like on an SDR spectrum analyzer scan. These scans were with an SDRplay RSP1A SDR ($100) and RSP Spectrum Analyser software:
Thank you for the report of your tests. It sounds like you are able to receive RF21 at times.
When you say MER I assume you mean the HDHR Signal Quality. It's often said to be eqivalent to SNR with a Signal Quality of 50 equal to an SNR of 15 dB at dropout, but it probably IS derived from MER.
With the LNA200, it is necessary to insert the attenuator before the preamp to keep it from being overloaded. Even a small amount of overload will produce IMD that will create spurious signals that will raise the noise floor and reduce the SNR of RF21. I redid the SFDR diagram to make it a little clearer, I hope:
The ZHL1010 is much more resistant to overload, so you could add any necessary attenuation after the preamp to reduce the chance of tuner overload. The Mini Circuits preamp costs $150, and there is no guarantee that it would improve your reception of channel 21; only you can decide if the gamble is worth it.
An alternative is the CM3410, which isn't quite as good as the ZHL1010, but is much less expensive.
That's true.
I'm still curious to see what the channel 21 signal looks like on an SDR spectrum analyzer scan. These scans were with an SDRplay RSP1A SDR ($100) and RSP Spectrum Analyser software:
R
The RTL-SDR.COM V3 dongle is only $25 and the SDR# (SDRsharp) software is free.
Buy RTL-SDR Dongles (RTL2832U)
But, it only covers part of a channel because the bandwidth is only about 2 MHz. See post 13.
You can also use the dongle with the free Touchstone software which covers more than one channel:
Touchstone — RF Spectrum Analyzer Software
A disadvantage is that there is no way to adjust the gain of the dongle with the Touchstone software, so you need an attenuator to get a good scan.
My amateur Videos
I didn't use a preamp for this scan. The channel 16 signal (first strong signal on the left) measured -6.3 dBmV (-55.1 dBm) with my Sadelco DisplayMax 800 signal level meter:
Touchstone RF Spectrum Analyzer 2020-10-27 14-45-43.mp4
https://www.dropbox.com/s/no068tnzs...pectrum Analyzer 2020-10-27 14-45-43.mp4?dl=1
When I used a 17 dB preamp (CM7777HD Amplify, low gain setting), more attenuation before the dongle was needed.
Touchstone RF Spectrum Analyzer 2020-10-27 14-27-48.mp4
https://www.dropbox.com/s/18g3b36dm...pectrum Analyzer 2020-10-27 14-27-48.mp4?dl=1
I use VLC Media Player.
Thanks for the report. Glad that I was able to help a little and that your other channels are OK.
The RTL-SDR.COM V3 dongle is only $25 and the SDR# (SDRsharp) software is free.
Buy RTL-SDR Dongles (RTL2832U)
But, it only covers part of a channel because the bandwidth is only about 2 MHz. See post 13.
You can also use the dongle with the free Touchstone software which covers more than one channel:
Touchstone — RF Spectrum Analyzer Software
A disadvantage is that there is no way to adjust the gain of the dongle with the Touchstone software, so you need an attenuator to get a good scan.
My amateur Videos
I didn't use a preamp for this scan. The channel 16 signal (first strong signal on the left) measured -6.3 dBmV (-55.1 dBm) with my Sadelco DisplayMax 800 signal level meter:
Touchstone RF Spectrum Analyzer 2020-10-27 14-45-43.mp4
https://www.dropbox.com/s/no068tnzs...pectrum Analyzer 2020-10-27 14-45-43.mp4?dl=1
When I used a 17 dB preamp (CM7777HD Amplify, low gain setting), more attenuation before the dongle was needed.
Touchstone RF Spectrum Analyzer 2020-10-27 14-27-48.mp4
https://www.dropbox.com/s/18g3b36dm...pectrum Analyzer 2020-10-27 14-27-48.mp4?dl=1
I use VLC Media Player.
Pub Member / Supporter
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10063 views
Staff member
HERE TO HELP YOU!
Cutting Edge
Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!
So let the game continue!
The last song was added by Bobby who posted...
One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters
CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!
Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game
Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.
Example:
Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow
Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio
Another example:
Ride the Lightning -- Metallica
Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne
Get it?
An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....
So let the game continue!
The last song was added by Bobby who posted...
One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters
CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!
Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game
Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.
Example:
Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow
Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio
Another example:
Ride the Lightning -- Metallica
Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne
Get it?
An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....
68632 Replies
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2679003 views
TWiT Tech Podcast Network
Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AqVr7wezCQ
Direct YouTube Link - MacBreak Weekly 1048
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AqVr7wezCQ
Direct YouTube Link - MacBreak Weekly 1048
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed
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Linus Tech Tips
Time for another AWESOME video from Linus Tech Tips!
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZSYaQmxBLM
Direct YouTube Link - Pros Try AI-Cloned Engineering Tools
Linus on Facebook
The LTT Store
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZSYaQmxBLM
Direct YouTube Link - Pros Try AI-Cloned Engineering Tools
Linus on Facebook
The LTT Store
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TWiT Tech Podcast Network
Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!
View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/1cPqRk5EyNs
Direct YouTube Link - Linux 7.3 Optimizes Gaming VRAM on 8GB GPUs #shorts
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed
View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/1cPqRk5EyNs
Direct YouTube Link - Linux 7.3 Optimizes Gaming VRAM on 8GB GPUs #shorts
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed
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7 views
iJustine
Time for another AWESOME video from iJustine!
View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/bmgQFnQEqVo
Direct YouTube Link - New colors of the HomePod Mini 2! Blue, pink and green!
The official iJustine Website's Website
Buy her book!
View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/bmgQFnQEqVo
Direct YouTube Link - New colors of the HomePod Mini 2! Blue, pink and green!
The official iJustine Website's Website
Buy her book!
0 Replies
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11 views
Pub Member / Supporter
House Passes AM Radio For Every Vehicle Act
(Washington, DC) - The U.S. House has passed the AM Radio for Every Vehicle Act, marking a major step forward for broadcasters and listeners who have pushed to keep AM radio available in new cars and
wabcradio.com
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586 views
. can we say over priced garbage!!!
TWiT Tech Podcast Network
Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!
View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/1gKXwyGz68c
Direct YouTube Link - Will AI Be Rejected in Game Development's Future? #shorts
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed
View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/1gKXwyGz68c
Direct YouTube Link - Will AI Be Rejected in Game Development's Future? #shorts
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed
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Pub Member / Supporter
Hello folks, well my luck ran out last week with a nasty thunderstorm and after 39 years here, finally took a hit. Now, the FTA receivers I had for some years worked great until now. Recently picked up a fairly cheap receiver, online, KOQIT and seems to be good, but for the life of me, I cannot get the HDMI output to work with 3 of my Samsung monitors. I can hook it up to my Samsung TV and its HDMI input and it works fine. The 2 receivers I lost also worked fine with them, so am I going crazy? anyone have come across this or have any suggestions? And, since this is a somewhat cheap unit but works, what is everyone out there using for receivers these days? without breaking the bank? I enjoy watching FTA TV, so I will invest more if needed, what is a really good, detailed unit these days. I'm so use to watching a few of them HD channels. Right now I'm down to composite hookups, yuck! Any help or info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Frank 
47 Replies
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1300 views
Take the cover off, show me pics of the board of the bad one and also the bottom of the board. I'm an old hardware electronics tech plus a satellite dealer; I fixed a lot of FTA and regular receivers. I may be able to fix it for you. And yes, they got hit by lightning; it's best to email me the pics at diamondsatellite@snet.net or call me at 203-232-8888. I give you a 50-50 chance of fixing it; I do have spare parts. my phone is a fliptop phoneHello folks, well my luck ran out last week with a nasty thunderstorm and after 39 years here, finally took a hit. Now, the FTA receivers I had for some years worked great until now. Recently picked up a fairly cheap receiver, online, KOQIT and seems to be good, but for the life of me, I cannot get the HDMI output to work with 3 of my Samsung monitors. I can hook it up to my Samsung TV and its HDMI input and it works fine. The 2 receivers I lost also worked fine with them, so am I going crazy? anyone have come across this or have any suggestions? And, since this is a somewhat cheap unit but works, what is everyone out there using for receivers these days? without breaking the bank? I enjoy watching FTA TV, so I will invest more if needed, what is a really good, detailed unit these days. I'm so use to watching a few of them HD channels. Right now I'm down to composite hookups, yuck! Any help or info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Frank
Gary
S
a good surge protector will help to.Hello folks, well my luck ran out last week with a nasty thunderstorm and after 39 years here, finally took a hit. Now, the FTA receivers I had for some years worked great until now. Recently picked up a fairly cheap receiver, online, KOQIT and seems to be good, but for the life of me, I cannot get the HDMI output to work with 3 of my Samsung monitors. I can hook it up to my Samsung TV and its HDMI input and it works fine. The 2 receivers I lost also worked fine with them, so am I going crazy? anyone have come across this or have any suggestions? And, since this is a somewhat cheap unit but works, what is everyone out there using for receivers these days? without breaking the bank? I enjoy watching FTA TV, so I will invest more if needed, what is a really good, detailed unit these days. I'm so use to watching a few of them HD channels. Right now I'm down to composite hookups, yuck! Any help or info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Frank
Seems like I remember that now, with my V9 I manually entered anyway on 105, easier for me to pick the channel later
