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MrDRC

Last reply Dec 11, 2020 · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

Nexstar Email Response

From: Nexstar Media Communications <NexstarMediaCommunications@nexstar.tv>

Date: December 3, 2020 at 1:48:39 PM CST

To: XXXXXXXXXX

Subject: RE: You got it wrong pal, Viewers are OUTRAGED at YOU!

Dear Dan,

I understand your frustration; really, I do. But Dish does this all the time—puts subscribers such as yourselves, in the middle. I am not allowed to get into the specifics of the negotiations—they are confidential for competitive reasons, but here are a couple things to consider:

Since July, Nexstar has been negotiating tirelessly and in good faith in an attempt to reach a mutually agreeable multi-year contract with DISH, offering DISH the same fair market rates it offered to other large distribution partners with whom it completed successful negotiations in 2019 and 2020. We started this process in early July, when our executive team flew to Dish HQ and made our first offer. Dish didn't even respond until late-September, wasting valuable time when we could have been resolving these issues.

Despite generating nearly $11 billion in revenue during the first nine-months of this year and completing a billion-plus dollar acquisition of a wireless company, DISH has proposed rates that go significantly backwards and, in addition to dropping Nexstar's local broadcast stations, has dropped Nexstar's cable network, WGN America, from its system. In terms of size, DISH's stock market capitalization is approximately four times that of Nexstar's. The last contract was negotiated 4 years ago; our costs for news expansion, network fees and live sports rose significantly during this time, while Dish's payments to us remained below fair-market.

DISH has a long history of holding its subscribers hostage during negotiations with content providers like Nexstar and the satellite provider's recent slew of local blackouts is creating an enormous local news draught for many communities impacting millions of viewers during the pandemic and this critical time for the country. In 2020 alone, DISH has dropped network or local community programming offered by The E.W. Scripps Company, Cox Media Group, Mission Broadcasting, the NFL Network and 21 regional sports networks. HBO and Cinemax have been off of Dish since 2018.

By contrast, Nexstar routinely reaches amicable retransmission and carriage agreements with its cable, satellite and telco partners and in the month of October alone, successfully completed agreements with nearly 200 distribution partners. In addition, since acquiring Tribune Media in September 2019, Nexstar has successfully completed agreements with distribution partners covering more than 50 percent of the Company's nationwide footprint.

We'll keep trying to get a deal done and get our channels restored to DISH.

Gary Weitman

EVP/Chief Communications Officer

Nexstar Media Group, Inc.

545 E. John Carpenter Freeway

Irving, TX 75062

312/222-3394

NASDAQ: NXST

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Joe h

Dec 3, 2020

I'm siding with nexstar. Dish has been on this "channel x doesn't receive the same ratings it did 5 years ago so we demand lower carriage fees" kick for three years now, and it has finally broke me. Charlie was even going to war against espn and the nfl earlier this summer. I'm not paying the man $140+ just to have a bunch of infomercial and diginet channels, one of which is also in dispute. Either deliver the every day staples that almost every cable company offers, or turn into the "dumb pipe" model similar to cable one, aka it wants to be called sparklight now.

ChadT41

Dec 4, 2020

Joe h said:
I'm siding with nexstar. Dish has been on this "channel x doesn't receive the same ratings it did 5 years ago so we demand lower carriage fees" kick for three years now, and it has finally broke me. Charlie was even going to war against espn and the nfl earlier this summer. I'm not paying the man $140+ just to have a bunch of infomercial and diginet channels, one of which is also in dispute. Either deliver the every day staples that almost every cable company offers, or turn into the "dumb pipe" model similar to cable one, aka it wants to be called sparklight now.

Less people are watching TV, and more are streaming. That means that by correlation, lower ratings. Lower ratings, lower dollars. They're not wrong. What you're asking is for them and everyone else to continue to up the price until it is too expensive for anyone, and then they go bankrupt. It's a short sighted approach to a complicated issue.

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fmj77

Dec 4, 2020

ChadT41 said:
Less people are watching TV, and more are streaming. That means that by correlation, lower ratings. Lower ratings, lower dollars. They're not wrong. What you're asking is for them and everyone else to continue to up the price until it is too expensive for anyone, and then they go bankrupt. It's a short sighted approach to a complicated issue.

Except that there are still millions where OTA is not an option and who can't get reliable high speed internet to stream. Their only option for TV is from satellite.

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ChadT41

Dec 4, 2020

fmj77 said:
Except that there are still millions where OTA is not an option and who can't get reliable high speed internet to stream. Their only option for TV is from satellite.

That doesn't addrsss what was said though. Just because millions rely on it, doesn't mean that the ratings are lower. For the same reasons listed above, hence they should be broken up and the limits put in place or imports allowed. I prefer the import idea as that is free trade rather than government intervention.

ekilgus

Dec 10, 2020

ChadT41 said:
That doesn't addrsss what was said though. Just because millions rely on it, doesn't mean that the ratings are lower. For the same reasons listed above, hence they should be broken up and the limits put in place or imports allowed. I prefer the import idea as that is free trade rather than government intervention.

IMO, Charging some for a service that's provided free to others should be illegal.

logically, re-transmitters (Dish, Direct. Cable) are expanding the reach and increasing the audience of these channels and ostensibly providing greater advertising revenue at no cost to them. It should be the broadcasters that pay the re-transmitters.

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ChadT41

Dec 10, 2020

ekilgus said:
IMO, Charging some for a service that's provided free to others should be illegal.

logically, re-transmitters (Dish, Direct. Cable) are expanding the reach and increasing the audience of these channels and ostensibly providing greater advertising revenue at no cost to them. It should be the broadcasters that pay the re-transmitters.

I don't disagree with you. The problem became when providers were benefitting off the locals as well.
I still like my idea. Keep must carry. Channel owners cannot own more than 22 stations in the country, and cannot own more than 2 locals in a single DMA. Also, they cannot, in any way, combine their locals with any other venture such as... I don't know... RSNs. Either that or remove DMA requirements and remove the ability for the regional specific contracts with the major players(Disney, CBS-Viacom, and Comcast) for their channels to be affiliated in specific DMAs. Force the affiliates to compete against each other, and tv will get affordable again. MTVAA

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pattykay

Dec 10, 2020

I see no problem with letting affiliates have exclusive rights to the areas that they actually serve OTA, since those viewers have a free back-up signal already if their service provider has a dispute. So, the retransmission consent locals are competing against their own free signal. What I do have a problem with is where the stations still have exclusive rights to areas within their DMA that are not served OTA. Those viewers are being unfairly held hostage. Many of those unserved areas are at the outer fringe of DMA's, where other market affiliates were able to claim Significantly Viewed status while they were still broadcasting in analog. With real-world digital OTA conditions today, those signals may not actually be available anymore, but they are still included on the Significantly Viewed List. In addition to the Significantly Viewed channels, cable providers in these same fringe areas long ago set the precedent for importing out-of-market affiliates there, using the cable distant network license. Cable providers have been slowly dropping many of those out-of-market channels, but they were available at one time. So, my solution would be to change the Significantly Viewed rules, to make it easier for satellite providers to carry Significantly Viewed channels, and to allow out-of-market channels that have historically been available from the local cable provider to also qualify for the Significantly Viewed List. This would help level the playing field. Of course, that still doesn't help in situations where the same owner is allowed to own affiliates of the same network in adjacent markets. So, some changes to the station ownership rules would also be needed.

ChadT41

Dec 10, 2020

crodrules said:
I see no problem with letting affiliates have exclusive rights to the areas that they actually serve OTA, since those viewers have a free back-up signal already if their service provider has a dispute. So, the retransmission consent locals are competing against their own free signal. What I do have a problem with is where the stations still have exclusive rights to areas within their DMA that are not served OTA. Those viewers are being unfairly held hostage. Many of those unserved areas are at the outer fringe of DMA's, where other market affiliates were able to claim Significantly Viewed status while they were still broadcasting in analog. With real-world digital OTA conditions today, those signals may not actually be available anymore, but they are still included on the Significantly Viewed List. In addition to the Significantly Viewed channels, cable providers in these same fringe areas long ago set the precedent for importing out-of-market affiliates there, using the cable distant network license. Cable providers have been slowly dropping many of those out-of-market channels, but they were available at one time. So, my solution would be to change the Significantly Viewed rules, to make it easier for satellite providers to carry Significantly Viewed channels, and to allow out-of-market channels that have historically been available from the local cable provider to also qualify for the Significantly Viewed List. This would help level the playing field. Of course, that still doesn't help in situations where the same owner is allowed to own affiliates of the same network in adjacent markets. So, some changes to the station ownership rules would also be needed.

Sounds like we are not too far off on how we feel the solution should go. We can take some of mine and some of yours, and apply the parts we both agree on as well, and we have a dang good plan to fix this situation.
We could go the total government control route also, which i would never support, and say every major local, or every owner that owns a local channel is guaranteed Must Carry with a small change in the backend. Instead of not being able to ask for month, there would've a predetermined amount for each station, such as the big four get $0.50/subscriber, and stations of X public interest get $$0.Xx amount per subscriber per month. Never have a blackout, amounts are fixed so negotiations not necessary, and "fair" compensation for the actual product. Again, I would hate this route, but even it would be better than the BS we have today.

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sam_gordon

Dec 11, 2020

I like parts of both of your suggestions...
* Limit how many stations a group can own (both in total and in a market).
* Set a limit in a DMA (this would be the hard part) so where OTA is not practical (again, would need to be defined), subscribers get locals for free.
* Set a fixed amount for subscribers. But, base it on ratings. The higher the ratings, the more the channel gets paid. % increases are also set, so there's no negotiation needed.

Obviously there would be a lot of details that need to ironed out.

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Scott Greczkowski

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge

Last reply Today at 6:01 AM · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Song Name Game Part 3!

Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne

Get it?

An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....

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long_time_Dish

Today at 12:40 AM

Lonely Street - Kansas

dishstaller

Today at 12:46 AM

Lonely is the Night - Billy Squier

long_time_Dish

Today at 1:41 AM

Lonely People - America

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hwkn

Today at 2:50 AM

PEOPLE Are Strange-The Doors

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ClarkGable

Today at 6:01 AM

You're Still A Young Man - Tower Of Power

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TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Today at 3:12 AM · posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Whiskey Pick: Frey Ranch Straight Bourbon

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omPQDqqbatQ

Direct YouTube Link - Whiskey Pick: Frey Ranch Straight Bourbon
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed

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JSheridan

Lifetime Supporter

Last reply Today at 2:09 AM · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

All DMA's now Western Arc

I know HipKat said that they were working on conversions but we got the official news yesterday right from Dish that starting next month all DMA's will be on the western arc, and all customers will be assigned to that. That's gonna mean a lot of customers around here aren't gonna get Dish unless there are exceptions. Too many mountains and trees.

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MikeD-C05

Sep 26, 2026

I don't know why DISH doesn't just start a streaming version of DISH and then if you can't see the western arc you go with streaming versions and then they could keep customers if they had good internet speeds. I mean Sling TV could be changed to Streaming DISH TV if they wanted since both companies are under Echostar. Then you would still be able to use your ota antenna with Air TV devices like I do with Air TV Anywhere with 4 ota tuners.

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Scott Greczkowski

Sep 26, 2026

MikeD-C05 said:
I don't know why DISH doesn't just start a streaming version of DISH

I have the same wish.

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Strega

Friday at 10:01 PM

Even if you are broadcasting old SD-only shows, I would think advertisers would still want their commercials to look good.

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Jimbo

Friday at 11:17 PM

Strega said:
Even if you are broadcasting old SD-only shows, I would think advertisers would still want their commercials to look good.

Advertisers on SD channels are probably Far and Few, very hard to find, they have very few viewers to watch them.

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Mister B

Saturday at 7:35 AM

Jimbo said:
Advertisers on SD channels are probably Far and Few, very hard to find, they have very few viewers to watch them.

I watch mostly SD channels (H&I, Start and ION, etc.). There are plenty of advertisers, this time of the year it is mostly Medicare Advantage plans, auto extended warranties and the occasional walk-in-tub. They know who is watching.

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slow_poke_pete

Yesterday at 10:40 AM

Mister B said:
I watch mostly SD channels (H&I, Start and ION, etc.). There are plenty of advertisers, this time of the year it is mostly Medicare Advantage plans, auto extended warranties and the occasional walk-in-tub. They know who is watching.

can't forget the little blue m&m's

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charlesrshell

Yesterday at 11:23 AM

slow_poke_pete said:
can't forget the little blue m&m's

That's what my wife calls my Viagra!!

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bnewt

Yesterday at 3:30 PM

Scott Greczkowski said:
I have the same wish.

Why?
A lot of people do not have fast internet.
That is why they use satellite

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NYDutch

Yesterday at 7:40 PM

bnewt said:
Why?
A lot of people do not have fast internet.
That is why they use satellite

DISH will happily sell them a Starlink system and service.

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telstar_1

Yesterday at 8:12 PM

Why didn't Charlie end up launching starlink

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Foxbat

Yesterday at 9:01 PM

telstar_1 said:
Why didn't Charlie end up launching starlink

Because he didn't have a fleet of reusable rockets. Starlink works because SpaceX is able to launch hundreds (thousands?) of their Starlink satellites for what a single geostationary Internet satellite costs to build and launch on a disposable launcher.

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telstar_1

Today at 12:08 AM

But how is it reusable if it's disposable

slow_poke_pete

Today at 2:09 AM

charlesrshell said:
That's what my wife calls my Viagra!!

My gf is 29 years younger than me :shh

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dishstaller

Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter

Last reply Today at 1:03 AM · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Well crap....Donnie Iris died today

RIP dude. Always liked his music. He was 83

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH5Arbm47IQ

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dishstaller

Today at 1:03 AM

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFmPEgNuELM

dishstaller

Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter

Today at 12:39 AM · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Yosemite HD

This video was put up shortly after I was able to take my family out to Yosemite in 2011. No AI.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6-2fVsFV8E

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dishstaller

Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter

Last reply Yesterday at 11:41 PM · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Might want to watch this before you buy a new vehicle battery

Love this guy's channel. Looks like Walmart has thrown in the towel when it comes to conventional car batteries.

I bought a new AGM battery from Walmart about a year ago, it is already needing replacing. I thought about just buying a regular battery but from what I've read, that might not be a smart move. Might check my Forscan program and see if I can change the battery type from AGM.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awe7kY5nvdU

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harshness

Sunday at 11:33 AM

When you need a battery, you need a battery.

If you can wait, new technologies are on the not-too-distant horizon.

You're probably doing something wrong if you're only getting a year out of an AGM battery. Heat and infrequent charging both significantly reduce lifetime.

dishstaller

Sunday at 12:53 PM

harshness said:
You're probably doing something wrong if you're only getting a year out of an AGM battery. Heat and infrequent charging both significantly reduce lifetime.

Huh? How can I be doing something wrong.....I took out the original battery, that was 6 yrs old and put in a new one.....kinda hard to screw that up. I figure it was just a bad battery....it happens.

The biggest takeaway I got from this video was the Walmart batteries only had something like 85% of battery life left even though they were brand NEW. The ones from O'Reilly all tested 100% of life left.

Jimbo

Sunday at 1:01 PM

dishstaller said:
Huh? How can I be doing something wrong.....I took out the original battery, that was 6 yrs old and put in a new one.....kinda hard to screw that up. I figure it was just a bad battery....it happens.

The biggest takeaway I got from this video was the Walmart batteries only had something like 85% of battery life left even though they were brand NEW. The ones from O'Reilly all tested 100% of life left.

And the Walmart ones mostly had very little warranty.

My last AGM (using now) I got from O Rielly's, its the Super Start ... I got the Platnium, they had several to choose from.

telstar_1

Sunday at 1:14 PM

He sounds like he's trying to sell me a pocket hose.

I just had to replace a car battery this week and thought I'd look into LiFePo4. Amazon has plenty of them, but all have top posts and only one 'also' has side connections (Group 75).Then I read that they're really lousy in the cold. So, an AGM, but again, almost nothing with side terminals instead of top. In researching that, I read that most mfrs in recent years have dropped side terminals and gone back to the old top posts, which is surprising to me since those are more corrosion-prone, cause the battery to need more space and are generally more hazardous. Finally I just threw up my hands and bought a regular lead-acid at Sam's Club. They had a Group 75 "Duracell" with side terminals only. It was virtually the only such battery with side posts on their shelves

arlo

Sunday at 2:20 PM

Had a Die Hard in my folks cellar for over 6 years. Pulled it out, slapped it on a charger for a day. Put it in my 'Cuda and drove it around for a week of my vacation. Next year, the same. But my dad kept it topped off for me.It was a mid 80's battery in early 1990.

Flooded acid batteries like a float voltage of around 13.5-13.8 voltage.
AGM needs a float of 14.2 volts. So if you slap an AGM in where a flooded was. It never gets a full charge.
"Why do they die so fast?" Question answered. There are folks who sell voltage regulators for alternators that are designed to boost float voltage for AGM batteries.
The other way around? Flooded will gas-off a little at 14.2 volts. But seems to tolerate it pretty good.

Lithium car/bike/atv batteries. After 3 batteries in my Harley. The OEM flooded and two AGM's (before the 14.2 volt float requirement to let them live was learned). I bought a lithium for it. 4 year, no gripe warranty after having it tested by an approved store.
The thing started like Thor himself sent a bolt from the sky. Except......try to start it around freezing? Nope. Needed a heating pad.
And I usually like to park it around events in the evening with the parking light on. Looks cool like that.
We could traipse around for a few hours no worries. Hop on, fire it up, and go putt around.
Lithium? A Dakota Lithium at least. The BMS shuts it right down if it discharges below <something>.
Come back. Parking lights off. Won't start. And you know the rest. But it lasted 6 years. A lot better than 'new every two'. And the fact that powersports batteries are warranted for six, maybe nine months. Ludicrous.

I called Noco. Asked all of the right questions. Great warranty. Save some bucks ordering directly, faster service that the wally world alternative.
They addressed (or claimed over the phone) that the shut down was addressed. Sure. The BMS keeps it form being damaged. But if it is shut down because it does become low. Shut down any load (key on, parking or headlights left on) for 10-15 minutes and you get a second try to start your rig. Not a bad thing if it really works. Right?!

Exide, Interstate? Be very afraid. They ain't what they used to be. In Florida my '70 Cutlass had an Interstate (early 90') that lasted 6 years until it dropped its plates at an intersection and boiled over. In Florida, mind you. The last Interstate.....done in 2. Guys down there would suck out the acid and put water in shortly before the warranty ran out. Make it to the auto parts, get them tested. And get a new one pro rated. No more pro rating.
You can't beat an Odyssey. Napa, AC Deco (the better ones). Yup.
The mom and pop Car Quest only sells Die Hard. For a reason, the old man says. So they convinced that a Die HArd Platinum was the hot ticket for me. l will see. Stand by!

You can't cut Mr. Project Farm down. He does great tests of all sorts of things. Not sponsored and pressured to slap a little sugar on his comparisons and reviews. Compared to the Brits and Aussies with their constant overzealous and same sounding (Dave from EEVblog) rant. I like P-Farm a lot. Of course I like AvE (Boltr) too.
Reminds me to beware when wearing shorts around the garage vice.

Opinions may vary.

harshness

Yesterday at 9:17 AM

Jimbo said:
And the Walmart ones mostly had very little warranty.

The days of the 84-month warranty appear long gone, regardless of brand or where you acquired it. Warranties tend to be shorter, with much greater dependence on quick prorating.

The big problem for lead-acid batteries (whether flooded or AGM) is that the US no longer produces lead (the last smelter closed in 2013) and must import it.

Recycling covers a good chunk of the need (~70%), but it isn't free.

EarDemon

Yesterday at 11:32 PM

I've always got regular OEM Ford Motorcraft batteries from the dealership and have never really had an issue. On my old Lincoln Aviator (the SUV from the early 00s, not the CUV of today), I had some phantom drain and went though a few batteries, but that was an anomaly and with the standard warranty I got free replacements. Taking the Aviator out of the picture, I've bought two batteries in my 24 years of driving. One battery replacement in my Mountaineer, one in my Navigator. But I probably would have had another one had I kept it around longer. Didn't have the Bronco long enough, and so far still on the factory battery for my Expedition.

I run more than the average bear. Dash cam, two radar detectors (yes, I'm aware that can be problematic when using simultaneously), laser jammers and a police scanner. I'm in Buffalo, 90 degree summers and 0 degree winters. Once in a while in the dead of winter I'll get an alert from the Ford app saying remote features have been disabled to conserve battery, but it starts right up.

dishstaller

Yesterday at 11:41 PM

EarDemon said:
I run more than the average bear. Dash cam, two radar detectors (yes, I'm aware that can be problematic when using simultaneously), laser jammers and a police scanner.

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Ramy

Supporting Founder

Last reply Yesterday at 11:12 PM · posted in The Sports Section

2026-27 NCAA College Football

Really excited for this season with Kentucky having a new coach and some really exciting recruits. Probably won't last long, but here's hoping this season is great.

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Jimbo

Yesterday at 9:22 PM

AI Overview

College Football Playoff bracket, schedule, scores, rankings ...

The 2025–26 College Football Playoff concluded with the Indiana Hoosiers winning the national championship by defeating the Miami Hurricanes 27–21. [1, 2, 3]

Playoff Results Summary
The 12-team playoff bracket featured the following key results across each round: [1]

- First Round: Alabama defeated Oklahoma (34–24), Miami (Fla.) beat Texas A&M (10–3), Ole Miss topped Tulane (41–10), and Oregon defeated James Madison (51–34) at higher-seeded campus sites.
- Quarterfinals: Miami (Fla.) upset Ohio State (24–14), Oregon shut out Texas Tech (23–0), top-ranked Indiana rolled past Alabama (38–3), and Ole Miss edged Georgia (39–34) across the New Year's Six bowls.
- Semifinals: Miami (Fla.) advanced past Ole Miss (31–27) in the Peach Bowl, while Indiana dominant-defeated Oregon (56–22) in the Fiesta Bowl.
- National Championship: Indiana secured the title with a 27–21 victory over Miami (Fla.) at Hard Rock Stadium. [1, 2, 3, 4]

Unfortunately, there was not rankings listed in this summary

AZ.

Yesterday at 9:38 PM

And no teams deserve a bye! Injuries are the largest part of the game that you cant practice for them. Any team can suffer the worst injury at any position on any play. No favorites.

Jimbo

Yesterday at 9:49 PM

AZ. said:
And no teams deserve a bye! Injuries are the largest part of the game that you cant practice for them. Any team can suffer the worst injury at any position on any play. No favorites.

I think they are actually discussing the Top 8 get a Bye this time, if they go to 24.
Then again, I heard something about Play in games for the 16-24 teams ...

Nothing is official yet, so lots of moving parts ...

Can't wait, lets do 24, 3 years later they will want 32 :sick

Yespage

Yesterday at 9:59 PM

AZ. said:
And no teams deserve a bye! Injuries are the largest part of the game that you cant practice for them. Any team can suffer the worst injury at any position on any play. No favorites.

While the bye can help the top four teams and those the Cartels would like to protect in the playoff, I think the bye is also about making the Cartel championships mean something. One problem with a playoff is it does diminish the conference title a bit.

Jimbo

Yesterday at 11:12 PM

Yespage said:
While the bye can help the top four teams and those the Cartels would like to protect in the playoff, I think the bye is also about making the Cartel championships mean something. One problem with a playoff is it does diminish the conference title a bit.

Once the 24 gets here, there won't be anymore Conference Championships .... or so they say.

Oh what the hell, we really don't need Conferences anymore either ... :coco