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primestar31
Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in Over the Air Television By RabbitEars.Info
This post will be a bit long-winded, but I think it all needs to be given for background.

My outdoor antenna system which is at about 25ft at present and installed with all PerfectVision 3Ghz swept RG-6 quad-shield & Thomas & Betts snap n seal connectors, consists of an AntennaCraft Y10-7-13 for my local RF 12 channel. That goes into an MCM Electronics FM filter, then into the non-power passing side of a UVSJ. Then a HDB91x UHF antenna for all my local UHF, went into the 2015 model Kitztech KT-200-Coax preamp, and into the power passing side of the UVSJ. Then, the output of that goes down to the power injector.

After the power injector, I also had a PCT-MA2-4P 4-way powered splitter, though likely overkill, it was there from a previous setup. Off that, I have a Tivo Roamio used for OTA, and 2 tv sets (previously had 3 tv's, but one fried a few months ago).

My house is located at a place where all my DMA's tv towers are in an arc, from North, North-East to slightly West of South. They are also grouped all from around 32 to 52~ miles away. Luckily enough, the highest powered ones are on opposite ends of that arc, and the ONE low power station I want to receive (10KW at 32 miles) is close to dead-center of that arc.

So, my HDB91x UHF antenna is pointed right at that station (WFFC-LD, RF17), and it receives all the other UHF stations acceptably within limits of its beamwidth/sidelobes.

Once I got everything all tweaked and locked down some years ago and finally settled on the KT-200 preamp as being the BEST in my situation out of many that I had tried, I still always felt that there might possibly be more to be gained, and who of us doesn't like to keep playing with antenna setups, lol.

Anyway, I started reading about Televes and their various products this past Winter, and wanted to try one. I finally was able to pre-order a Televes 560483 two-input preamp from Ness Electronics, and got it 3 weeks later. Unfortunately, that was just before Christmas, and Michigan got pounded with too many snow storms to allow me to install it right away, since I had to go on the roof. That's not easy when there's at least two feet of icy snow up there.

I finally was able to install it in February. I eventually did a simple straight-swap of removing the KT-200, and installing the 560483 in its place, along with their power inserter to replace the Kitztech one. I tried various combinations between the antennas/preamp/uvsj while checking it, but NEVER found one that worked even as well as OR better than the KT-200.

In fact, the Televes preamp couldn't even lock WFFC-LD RF17 that the Kitztech could. Locking that station that's only 10KW and 32 miles away, is my gold-standard on MUST HAVES.

Anyway, I thought "Well, that's yet another $70 down the drain, and time wasted trying to beat the Kitztech". I then put the KT-200 back in, and put the Televes preamp into my parts drawer.

That's where it all stood, until a week or so ago after a persons post in the TV and Fm DXing group on Facebook comparing various companies preamps, and I made a reply comment that I also hadn't had any luck with the particular Televes preamp I tried. Javier Ruano of Televes read that comment, mentioned that he didn't think that particular preamp was the best choice for my setup, and offered to swap it out straight-up for the 560383 single input one. I took him up on that offer since I had nothing to lose any way by doing so.

I received a Televes 560383 single input preamp this week Tuesday, and was finally able to install it today in my system, since we've had some bad weather the last few days. I once again did a straight swap for the KT-200, so the preamp is only in the UHF chain. I also of course swapped out the power injector, but initially left everything else the same.

The Tivo Roamio hidden diagnostics screen (which has a LOT of data), showed that Signal strength and SNR on this straight swapout was on average a tad better than the KT-200, but not by much. Since the Televes power injector has TWO outputs and the Televes preamp has a little more juice than the KT-200, I then also decided to remove the PCT powered splitter from the signal chain. I put the Tivo on the injectors main output (since it's my most-watched device) and used a PCT passive two-way splitter on the other output for the two tv sets.

Now, with the Televes preamp, signal strength and SNR readings on average on the Tivo and tv sets are around 4-5 points UP higher than they were with the KT-200, and they appear to be more stable. Also, we are having 30+MPH wind gusts all through this testing today 4/30, and I have lots of trees flapping their leaves starting about 100 to 300 feet away that I have to aim through. Even so, I'm NOT getting any RS Uncorrected errors on my weakest channel, which I was getting a few now and again with the KT-200.

Anyway, I feel that the Televes model 560383 preamp seems to beat the Kitztech KT-200-Coax by a bit, is better built, and I have every intention of keeping it installed. It appears to be built well, has FM & 5G LTE filtering built-in, and I don't think anybody could go wrong in trying them out for themselves.
12 Replies · 10892 views
T
Hey Arlo,

I think that the takeaway of the layout by Primestar31 is to use a preamp on UHF only and avoid amplification of a second VHF antenna.

Generally, an extremely low noise preamp is helpful on UHF, and either harmful or useless on VHF. (The difference depends on VHF signal strength and local noise levels plus losses due to splitters). Therefore the use of a UVSJ and a new UHF only antenna would avoid over-amplification of a VHF antenna and allow FM signals to be distributed without any strong FM stations causing problems in the preamp.

If you desire optimum FM performance on the same RG-6 as your TV, the best preamp layout can be complicated, and will vary based on location. That said, the filtering in the Televes can improve TV reception. The gain graphs that I've seen published suggest the Televes preamp uses an optimum channel 2-6 bandpass filter that will cut off most of the FM band. It doesn't look like an FM trap that can be bypassed.
T
Hey Arlo,

I think that the takeaway of the layout by Primestar31 is to use a preamp on UHF only and avoid amplification of a second VHF antenna.

Generally, an extremely low noise preamp is helpful on UHF, and either harmful or useless on VHF. (The difference depends on VHF signal strength and local noise levels plus losses due to splitters). Therefore the use of a UVSJ and a new UHF only antenna would avoid over-amplification of a VHF antenna and allow FM signals to be distributed without any strong FM stations causing problems in the preamp.

If you desire optimum FM performance on the same RG-6 as your TV, the best preamp layout can be complicated, and will vary based on location. That said, the filtering in the Televes can improve TV reception. The gain graphs that I've seen published suggest the Televes preamp uses an optimum channel 2-6 bandpass filter that will cut off most of the FM band. It doesn't look like an FM trap that can be bypassed.
I do not think that was Primestar31's issue. His problem, as I explained in a different thread, is he was using the dual input 560483 preamplifier for a one feed situation, which is not optimal because it has an input combiner that will lower effective C/N. In a fringe situation, when combining two specific-band antennas, it's always more optimal to diplex the two antennas and hit a one input low noise amplifier such as the 560383, or preamplify the two antennas independently and then combine them, once the NF of the system has been stablished. The 560483 performs broadband combining previous to amplification, which is a great solution to combine two antennas overlapping in frequencies with a minimum cost, but the situation needs to allow for it. I his case, the toll taken by the broadband combination prior to preamplification was not viable.
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V
Why doesn't the MER show in any of those screen shots??
primestar31
Why doesn't the MER show in any of those screen shots??
Because I was using a cable tv meter, and it's not capable of demodulating the signal. On OTA signals, it can only show C/N and Power. I'd LOVE to have an actual ATSC meter, but I can't afford one, since they are pushing $400 for a cheap one. This meter was given to me for use right now.
V
Ok. I'm surprised it doesn't have both 8VSB & QAM. Come to think about it, since it apparently has a OTA channel table/map, one would logically figure it would have that function.
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T
Ok. I'm surprised it doesn't have both 8VSB & QAM. Come to think about it, since it apparently has a OTA channel table/map, one would logically figure it would have that function.
The meter shown in those pictures is a P/N 593101 H30 Meter. It's a CATV meter demodulating QAM Annex A/B/C signals. It does not demodulate 8VSB or ATSC 3.0 (there are other part numbers that do), but it is still beneficial that it comes with the OTA channel plan since the C/N and Power readings it provides are perfectly accurate. Of course the spectrum analyzer is valid too for OTA signals.

For antenna work a better choice would be a unit in the H30 Evolution family, which demodulate cable and over the air signals both in ATSC1.0 and 3.0 standards (video attached): H30Evolution - All the functions you need now in your smartdevice
I
The 560483 performs broadband combining previous to amplification, which is a great solution to combine two antennas overlapping in frequencies with a minimum cost, but the situation needs to allow for it.
So is the Televes dual input pre-amp ideal for stacking dual antennas in a dxing scenario instead of combining 2 antennas with a combining harness (or combiner) and feeding into a single input pre-amp such as the 560383? When I mention dual antennas I am referring to antennas without built-in amplification.
Scott Greczkowski
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne


Get it?


An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....
68611 Replies · 2678082 views
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ClarkGable
Highway To Hell - AC/DC
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harshness
Rockin' Down the Highway - The Doobie Brothers
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gms49ers
Brothers in Arms - Dire Straits
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sdfntx
The Smothers Brothers Theme - Mason Williams
FTA4PA
We Just Disagree - Dave Mason
Ramy
Supporting Founder
Last reply · posted in The Sports Section
Really excited for this season with Kentucky having a new coach and some really exciting recruits. Probably won't last long, but here's hoping this season is great.
153 Replies · 2226 views
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M


They get cruel sometimes, very very cruel.😈. Hated to see my dawgs go down but I still say being ranked #1 is a hex on you!
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Jimbo
They get cruel sometimes, very very cruel.😈. Hated to see my dawgs go down but I still say being ranked #1 is a hex on you!
Yup, I agree, I'd rather be 2 or 3 till the last few weeks.
dishstaller
Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
Love this guy's channel. Looks like Walmart has thrown in the towel when it comes to conventional car batteries.

I bought a new AGM battery from Walmart about a year ago, it is already needing replacing. I thought about just buying a regular battery but from what I've read, that might not be a smart move. Might check my Forscan program and see if I can change the battery type from AGM.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awe7kY5nvdU
16 Replies · 159 views
harshness
When you need a battery, you need a battery.

If you can wait, new technologies are on the not-too-distant horizon.

You're probably doing something wrong if you're only getting a year out of an AGM battery. Heat and infrequent charging both significantly reduce lifetime.
Jimbo
The guy in the Video, REALLY needs to TAKE a Breath ...
If he'd Slow down, you could figure out What he's testing and on what. :(
harshness
If he'd Slow down, you could figure out What he's testing and on what.
You can't view his videos passively.

I appreciate this approach to videos that take an hour to deliver a fraction of the same data.

Now, if YouTube were required to flag the AI "reviews", that would really be something.
dishstaller
You're probably doing something wrong if you're only getting a year out of an AGM battery. Heat and infrequent charging both significantly reduce lifetime.
Huh? How can I be doing something wrong.....I took out the original battery, that was 6 yrs old and put in a new one.....kinda hard to screw that up. I figure it was just a bad battery....it happens.


The biggest takeaway I got from this video was the Walmart batteries only had something like 85% of battery life left even though they were brand NEW. The ones from O'Reilly all tested 100% of life left.
Jimbo
Huh? How can I be doing something wrong.....I took out the original battery, that was 6 yrs old and put in a new one.....kinda hard to screw that up. I figure it was just a bad battery....it happens.


The biggest takeaway I got from this video was the Walmart batteries only had something like 85% of battery life left even though they were brand NEW. The ones from O'Reilly all tested 100% of life left.
And the Walmart ones mostly had very little warranty.

My last AGM (using now) I got from O Rielly's, its the Super Start ... I got the Platnium, they had several to choose from.
TRG
TRG
Huh? How can I be doing something wrong.....I took out the original battery, that was 6 yrs old and put in a new one.....kinda hard to screw that up. I figure it was just a bad battery....it happens.


The biggest takeaway I got from this video was the Walmart batteries only had something like 85% of battery life left even though they were brand NEW. The ones from O'Reilly all tested 100% of life left.
I've been buying my batteries from AutoZone. I avoid Walmart whenever possible.
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dishstaller
I appreciate this approach to videos that take an hour to deliver a fraction of the same data.
That's the way I feel about it.
I hate those videos where they show themselves slowly opening up the box and unwrapping it.
His videos are probably the fastest pace test videos on Youtube.
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T
He sounds like he's trying to sell me a pocket hose.

I just had to replace a car battery this week and thought I'd look into LiFePo4. Amazon has plenty of them, but all have top posts and only one 'also' has side connections (Group 75).Then I read that they're really lousy in the cold. So, an AGM, but again, almost nothing with side terminals instead of top. In researching that, I read that most mfrs in recent years have dropped side terminals and gone back to the old top posts, which is surprising to me since those are more corrosion-prone, cause the battery to need more space and are generally more hazardous. Finally I just threw up my hands and bought a regular lead-acid at Sam's Club. They had a Group 75 "Duracell" with side terminals only. It was virtually the only such battery with side posts on their shelves
arlo
Had a Die Hard in my folks cellar for over 6 years. Pulled it out, slapped it on a charger for a day. Put it in my 'Cuda and drove it around for a week of my vacation. Next year, the same. But my dad kept it topped off for me.It was a mid 80's battery in early 1990.

Flooded acid batteries like a float voltage of around 13.5-13.8 voltage.
AGM needs a float of 14.2 volts. So if you slap an AGM in where a flooded was. It never gets a full charge.
"Why do they die so fast?" Question answered. There are folks who sell voltage regulators for alternators that are designed to boost float voltage for AGM batteries.
The other way around? Flooded will gas-off a little at 14.2 volts. But seems to tolerate it pretty good.

Lithium car/bike/atv batteries. After 3 batteries in my Harley. The OEM flooded and two AGM's (before the 14.2 volt float requirement to let them live was learned). I bought a lithium for it. 4 year, no gripe warranty after having it tested by an approved store.
The thing started like Thor himself sent a bolt from the sky. Except......try to start it around freezing? Nope. Needed a heating pad.
And I usually like to park it around events in the evening with the parking light on. Looks cool like that.
We could traipse around for a few hours no worries. Hop on, fire it up, and go putt around.
Lithium? A Dakota Lithium at least. The BMS shuts it right down if it discharges below <something>.
Come back. Parking lights off. Won't start. And you know the rest. But it lasted 6 years. A lot better than 'new every two'. And the fact that powersports batteries are warranted for six, maybe nine months. Ludicrous.

I called Noco. Asked all of the right questions. Great warranty. Save some bucks ordering directly, faster service that the wally world alternative.
They addressed (or claimed over the phone) that the shut down was addressed. Sure. The BMS keeps it form being damaged. But if it is shut down because it does become low. Shut down any load (key on, parking or headlights left on) for 10-15 minutes and you get a second try to start your rig. Not a bad thing if it really works. Right?!

Exide, Interstate? Be very afraid. They ain't what they used to be. In Florida my '70 Cutlass had an Interstate (early 90') that lasted 6 years until it dropped its plates at an intersection and boiled over. In Florida, mind you. The last Interstate.....done in 2. Guys down there would suck out the acid and put water in shortly before the warranty ran out. Make it to the auto parts, get them tested. And get a new one pro rated. No more pro rating.
You can't beat an Odyssey. Napa, AC Deco (the better ones). Yup.
The mom and pop Car Quest only sells Die Hard. For a reason, the old man says. So they convinced that a Die HArd Platinum was the hot ticket for me. l will see. Stand by!

You can't cut Mr. Project Farm down. He does great tests of all sorts of things. Not sponsored and pressured to slap a little sugar on his comparisons and reviews. Compared to the Brits and Aussies with their constant overzealous and same sounding (Dave from EEVblog) rant. I like P-Farm a lot. Of course I like AvE (Boltr) too.
Reminds me to beware when wearing shorts around the garage vice.


Opinions may vary.
harshness
And the Walmart ones mostly had very little warranty.
The days of the 84-month warranty appear long gone, regardless of brand or where you acquired it. Warranties tend to be shorter, with much greater dependence on quick prorating.

The big problem for lead-acid batteries (whether flooded or AGM) is that the US no longer produces lead (the last smelter closed in 2013) and must import it.

Recycling covers a good chunk of the need (~70%), but it isn't free.
K
Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in TV Shows
Season 2 order already in hand:

'Star Trek: Starfleet Academy' Renewed for Season 2, Tatiana Maslany to Guest Star in Season 1

I've not been optimistic about this show based on what I've read so far. Seems to be aimed at a younger audience. Interesting though that Tatiana Maslany will have some sort of role.
95 Replies · 3764 views
harshness
Females wearing any clothing is unthinkable on Ferenginar.
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long_time_Dish
Females wearing any clothing is unthinkable on Ferenginar.
Was never a huge of the Ferengi-centric episodes in Trek...
Jimbo
Was never a huge of the Ferengi-centric episodes in Trek...
Me either ...
They turned out to be a Poor adversary ....
Foxbat
They got their proper due on "Deep Space Nine"
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long_time_Dish
They got their proper due on "Deep Space Nine"
And too many episodes centering on/around them as well...
harshness
They turned out to be a Poor adversary ....
As has always been the case for those consumed by their own financial enrichment. ;)
S
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
The title was to catch everyone's eye lol! But it is a thought I've been having as I dev a Roku app for a client. You see many MAAANY years ago I got really interested in cable TV channels and even chatted with a regional carrier, Insight about what it took to get a channel number. It was surprisingly easy although prohibitively expensive.



You could petition, reserve a high channel number, they monitored performance and if they liked you, you'd get lower channel number overtime and cut into ad overlays.



Roku has a similar setup. Make an app, if it has a strong, original linear component you could get channel assignment on The Roku Channel.



As mixed as my feelings are on the current media landscape, I can't help but feel a little excited interest when I scope out the apps in the Roku store.
4 Replies · 84 views
navychop
Hmmm. I think Roku will last. But will Firestick? With their backing, I guess so. Apple TV STB? Of Course. Walmart? Seems someone ought to go, but with their backing?….

Off brands have, as probably expected, very short lives.
S
Hmmm. I think Roku will last. But will Firestick? With their backing, I guess so. Apple TV STB? Of Course. Walmart? Seems someone ought to go, but with their backing?….

Off brands have, as probably expected, very short lives.
All of those services have FAST Channels. FAST is a linear online broadcast stndrd. You notice how their linear channels all have some overlap? They are gettting paid for every second those streams are up without really having to do their own accounting. Best part is they don't even facilitate any of the stream bandwidth. Over glorified app stores on some android hardware. No reason NOT to stay in the game.
harshness
It is largely because of the standard Roku remote that channel numbers are a distant memory on the streaming side of things. Because their competitors followed suit only reinforces that they were right.

Linear TV's death is a direct result of DVRs giving you what you wanted when you wanted it; why go back?
harshness
FAST is a linear online broadcast stndrd.
FAST is uniquely popular as a way of saving money. It isn't so much about consumption as passing time.
dishstaller
Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in TV Shows
Don't know if any of you have watched this series yet, it would be interesting to see if you feel this review was accurate. It was very humorous to listen to however.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tsDO3y8I2c
3 Replies · 137 views
KAB
KAB
What a "pile of slop" review! I liked the show.
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Y
What a "pile of slop" review! I liked the show.
If the review is like the article, oi! Eighteen paragraphs into the review and... all they've done is not really talk at all about the actual thing they are reviewing.

Halfway into the "written" review, I know more about how the writer "thinks" than I do about what they are writing about. I understand their politics, their self-overestimated understanding of film, their inability to be funny.

Takes about 22 paragraphs to get to one that starts "Anyway, the story kicks off...". Talk about Slop! 😂
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harshness
Punditry is alive and well and just as divisive as ever.
Gary Toma
Staff member Pub Member / Supporter Cutting Edge
Last reply · posted in DIRECTV Technical Resources Forum
The TPN Map Excel Presents all DIRECTV Channels:
​
National (50-States or wide/NAT+PR beams)
Local (Local-Into-Local or narrow/Spot beams)
​
Additional tabs provide:​
OTA the (Over-The-Air) Database
VOD (Video On_Demand) Records
Offline Records
Engr Records
Net Decoder a graphic presentation of all satellites and transponders
​
Domestic Satellites
@99W...... D11, D14
@101W.... D16
@103W.... D12, D15
@110W.... D5
@119W.... D8​

Understanding the TPN Map

Making Sense of the TPN Map Display Conventions
2164 Replies · 940239 views
K
660 CAVLIERS, 668 TWOLVES and 680 SPURS are now available
K
WPLG Miami is testing on the stream server again

EDIT: It's now available for streaming customers
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M
660 CAVLIERS, 668 TWOLVES and 680 SPURS are now available
Still with Choice package? My stepdad says when the game started he got black screen and something to do with not the right package.
He had the Twins the last 2 years and I saw the Wild screen on 668-1 when I was there a few weeks ago.
K
There were some technical issues during the pregame, where 668 was showing the Pacers feed instead of the Timberwolves feed until a few minutes before the game.

On the stream API it looks like some areas need the Sports Pack, what's his zip code?
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K
The BLUES, BLUJCKTS, HURCANES and WILD channels are now active and no longer pointing to the TV Promise slate
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dtv757
For those dazn nba channels are they sat only or sat & streaming
JSheridan
Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in DISH Network Support Forum
I know HipKat said that they were working on conversions but we got the official news yesterday right from Dish that starting next month all DMA's will be on the western arc, and all customers will be assigned to that. That's gonna mean a lot of customers around here aren't gonna get Dish unless there are exceptions. Too many mountains and trees.
156 Replies · 4411 views
Foxbat
Unless Dish acquires DirecTV and its mid-USA satellite slots, I may not have Dish Network to reach 40 years. Or, I guess we could buy a new house…
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S
Unless Dish acquires DirecTV and its mid-USA satellite slots, I may not have Dish Network to reach 40 years. Or, I guess we could buy a new house…
have charlie buy you a new house :biggrin :clapping
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T
Well, I didn't immediately think of broadcast, where there are all kinds of digital "subchannels"- I remember back when digital broadcast began that supposedly the 6mhz channel would likely support just 1 HD program and that the added subchannels would likely have to remain SD. I don't watch enough broadcast to know. Are there a lot of the subchannels in SD-only, and how do they do that, like are they in 4:3 or some kind of low-res widescreen?
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Foxbat
have charlie buy you a new house :biggrin :clapping
Unfortunately, I don't think my social proximity to Charle Ergen provides any special perks. Maybe if Foxbat, Jr. were to marry his daughter…🤞🏻🤣
S
Unfortunately, I don't think my social proximity to Charle Ergen provides any special perks. Maybe if Foxbat, Jr. were to marry his daughter…🤞🏻🤣
that would be one hell of a convo :biggrin.
osu1991
Well, I didn't immediately think of broadcast, where there are all kinds of digital "subchannels"- I remember back when digital broadcast began that supposedly the 6mhz channel would likely support just 1 HD program and that the added subchannels would likely have to remain SD. I don't watch enough broadcast to know. Are there a lot of the subchannels in SD-only, and how do they do that, like are they in 4:3 or some kind of low-res widescreen?
New more efficient encoders. I think there's around 60 channels/sub channels now in the Tulsa dma. 480 widescreen for most of the sub channels, but some have 2 HD channels and a couple of SD sub channels while others have 1 HD and 5 or more SD sub channels. If they moved to mp4 or hevc encoding they could do higher bitrates for SD or more HD or even 4K in that 6Mhz channel. That could render some early digital tvs unable to tune though as they may not have the codecs for that. Considering 4K tvs have been on sale for years, I think it would be a very small minority of TVs with the problem. I'd rather see that happen and keep ATSC 1 than continue the move to a DRM enforced ATSC 3 world.