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Scott Greczkowski

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge

Last reply Dec 7, 2021 · posted in Over the Air Television By RabbitEars.Info

ATSC 3.0 Coming to Hartford in October

Fox 61 and CW 20 will be moving to ATSC 3.0 in October.

https://www.fox61.com/article/about-us/nextgen-tv-coming-hartford-here-is-everything-you-need-to-know

122 Replies · 22900 views

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raoul5788

Sep 20, 2021

ThisBUDs4U said:
I don't like it already bc it means I have 2 replace all my gear.

You can buy the stand alone tuner.

ThisBUDs4U

Sep 20, 2021

raoul5788 said:
You can buy the stand alone tuner.

I know. I'm replacing standalone tuners w/ standalone tuners.

TheKrell

Sep 21, 2021

ThisBUDs4U said:
I know. I'm replacing standalone tuners w/ standalone tuners.

Does the FCC intend to subsidize converter boxes like they did for the digital transition?

Scott Greczkowski

Sep 21, 2021

TheKrell said:
Does the FCC intend to subsidize converter boxes like they did for the digital transition?

Nope

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TheKrell

Sep 21, 2021

Scott Greczkowski said:
Nope

Sent from my iPhone using SatelliteGuys

Where's the incentive for people to spend money to get something they perceive as little or no value added? I fear this will be like 3D all over again, or theater quality sound. They may remain niche products, as NashGuy said. Some think we may never have gone to HDTVs at all except that the screen was BIGGER and CHEAPER than old CRT TVs were. I have a good friend who retains 3 old 19" Sony CRT TVs and refuses to upgrade to anything better. I even handed him a small 24" HDTV as well as a FireTV STick, neither of which he has even tried out once. I think he's nuts. But he just doesn't use his TV for much at all. As long as his Sony's refuse to die, he keeps them around.

NashGuy said:
Let's face it, external OTA tuners (whether in a network tuner like HD HomeRun, or an OTA DVR like Tablo or TiVo) are pretty niche. I have an HD HomeRun and it's great, it lets me watch live and recorded OTA TV through my Apple TV 4K box. But I can't ever see devices like that becoming mainstream. Just don't see many folks purchasing an external ATSC 3.0 tuner unless they were cheap and getting built directly into popular streaming devices like Roku, Fire TV, etc.

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NashGuy

Sep 22, 2021

TheKrell said:
Where's the incentive for people to spend money to get something they perceive as little or no value added? I fear this will be like 3D all over again, or theater quality sound. They may remain niche products, as NashGuy said.

Yes, your comparison to 3D TV is exactly what I've been thinking may happen with ATSC 3.0. I could be wrong, of course. The challenge with 3.0 is that it needs collaborative support from three or four groups to achieve lift-off and succeed: local stations, national broadcast networks, TV/electronics manufacturers, and the government.

So far, the only group showing any real commitment to 3.0 is local station owners (mainly Sinclair and Nexstar, the two largest).

But unlike the previous analog-to-digital (1.0) transition, the government has not issued a mandate that TV manufacturers must include 3.0 tuners or that stations must adopt it. And for those stations that do adopt it, there's no mandated cut-off of their 1.0 signal. Also, there's no government subsidies for tuners/converter boxes for consumers. So the whole thing is voluntary, which isn't necessarily bad, it just means that all the other players have to work together to spur consumer adoption.

As I said, only a very few of the most expensive model TVs from the top 3 premium brands have opted to include 3.0 tuners so far. Aside from that, the only option for consumers right now is the external HDHomeRun Flex 4K (with 2 hybrid 3.0/1.0 tuners and 2 1.0-only tuners) for $200. We'll see if that changes with the 2022 TV models.

As for the broadcast networks, there have been rumors (nothing stated on-the-record) in the past few years that a couple of them (I think Fox and maybe CBS) said they plan to make their content available to their 3.0 affiliate stations in 1080p HDR. (The consensus seems to be that there won't be enough shared bandwidth on 3.0 stations, at least in the next few years, to support 4K, and most 4K TVs do a good enough job of upscaling high-quality 1080p HDR so as not to make much perceivable difference by consumers versus true 4K HDR.) But so far that hasn't come to pass. (And if/when it does, you can be sure that the networks will also make those shows available in true 4K HDR on their own streaming services, e.g. ABC's Hulu, NBC's Peacock, CBS's Paramount+.)

OTOH, the networks have shown at least a bit of support for 3.0 by broadcasting a few of their owned-and-operated affiliate stations in 3.0; Fox and CBS each have a handful of their O&O stations on 3.0 now while ABC appears to have one. NBC doesn't appear to have any yet. Perhaps when ATSC 3.0 launches in the Los Angeles and New York City markets, where the big 4 networks have their flagship O&O stations (e.g. WABC, KNBC, etc.), we'll see the networks step up with more support for what 3.0 can do by making their primetime shows and sports available in 1080p HDR with Atmos audio and perhaps interactive features like viewer polls. Without that level of support from the networks, it's hard to see consumers caring enough about the new format to seek it out.

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JosephB

Nov 29, 2021

NashGuy said:
Yes, your comparison to 3D TV is exactly what I've been thinking may happen with ATSC 3.0. I could be wrong, of course. The challenge with 3.0 is that it needs collaborative support from three or four groups to achieve lift-off and succeed: local stations, national broadcast networks, TV/electronics manufacturers, and the government.

TV makers will want to get on board because it's an excuse to sell someone a new TV even if they don't need it. You need the stations up and running, possibly with higher quality content, though. They don't want to get bitten like they did with 3D so they'll want demonstrable content on the ground so people actually get something for the money. I don't think the networks will care one way or the other, or need to, except ABC and Fox need to provide 1080 content instead of 720 content. They already have 4K sports, which I don't think they'll have a problem providing to their affiliates. Only thing here is the time it will take for affiliate agreements (which I think are typically on like a 10 year cycle) to renew

NashGuy said:
Network-connected "gateway" tuners like the HD HomeRun Flex are actually what the NAB showed on their website and elsewhere when they began touting the concept of ATSC 3.0 five or six years ago since those tuners can serve up OTA TV to any wifi-connected screen in the house, not just smart TVs but also tablets, phones and computers. I remember their conceptual artwork/copy also suggesting that the user might plug a USB hard drive into the gateway tuner for DVR features. (Speaking of which, we know that ATSC 3.0 allows broadcasters to embed copyright protection; it's an open question if 3.0 takes off if the big networks will allow their programs to be recorded or, if so, perhaps not allow the ads to be skipped. In exchange for DVR capability, they may even require the user to connect the tuner to the internet for data collection purposes and to insert targeted ads during playback of recordings. Who knows.)

Gateway tuners are a non-starter for most people. Maybe antennas with the tuners built in and wifi-enabled will be the true answer here, but most people want to just plug in and go. The more pieces of hardware involved, and you already have the TV and antenna, the more people you are going to lose

NashGuy said:
The stations are *hoping* for a revenue stream in ATSC 3.0. Meanwhile, TV manufacturers mainly just see added costs, not additional profits/sales.

And we don't know that MVPDs (pay TV distributors) are going to pay anything more for the right to carry stations' 3.0 signals with enhanced picture and sound quality. (As you say, a big majority of Americans watch the broadcast nets via pay TV, not free OTA.) Although, for that matter, stations don't necessarily even have to broadcast in 3.0 to offer enhanced feeds to MVPDs. Many NBC local affiliates, including ours here in Nashville, did that very thing during this summer's Tokyo Olympics when they transmitted an alternate 4K or 4K HDR version of their primetime feed to Comcast and YouTube TV. I see no reason why we won't some more of that happen with pay TV systems capable of doing it (i.e. managed IPTV and OTT systems, probably not QAM or satellite) and such developments can be completely separated from ATSC 3.0.

One of the big revenue streams from 3.0 is supposed to (eventually) be data-enabled broadband-delivered targeted ads for those viewers who have their 3.0 tuner connected to the internet. But Comcast, Charter and other pay TV operators already have their own targeted ad platforms and I can't really see them letting the broadcasters run their own ad platforms through the pay TV operator's STB/app. Everything online is always about controlling the UI, collecting the user data, and handling the targeted ads.

The thing about cable companies here is that technically they're not even carrying "ATSC 1.0" signals, they're just carrying the video re-encoded. In some, if not most, cases, the feed is from a fiber connection not even captured over the air. The MVPDs are absolutely not going to re-engineer their delivery systems and set top boxes to enable the interactive and targeted advertising of ATSC 3.0. That will be a huge cost in an industry that is shrinking. The broadcasters will be extremely lucky if the MVPDs agree to give them more bandwidth for HDR or 4K, and they will probably even have to give some concession for the MVPDs to buy new decoders. But I 1000% guarantee none of the interactive or targeted features of ATSC 3.0 will ever show up on a Comcast, Dish, DirecTV, or Charter set top box

NashGuy

Dec 2, 2021

JosephB said:
TV makers will want to get on board because it's an excuse to sell someone a new TV even if they don't need it.

Virtually no one is buying a new TV just because it has an ATSC 3.0 tuner in it. And TV manufacturers seem to understand this. Check out the product pages on LG's and Sony's websites that showcase their various high-end model TVs that happen to include 3.0 tuners. Nothing about ATSC 3.0/NextGen TV is mentioned anywhere in the marketing copy touting those TVs' many advanced features. To even know that the TV has a 3.0 tuner, you have to pore over the small print in the specifications list.

JosephB said:
I don't think the networks will care one way or the other, or need to, except ABC and Fox need to provide 1080 content instead of 720 content. They already have 4K sports, which I don't think they'll have a problem providing to their affiliates. Only thing here is the time it will take for affiliate agreements (which I think are typically on like a 10 year cycle) to renew

Based on a few reports I've seen on trade media sites, it sounds like at least some of the big 4 broadcast nets (CBS, Fox) as well as major station groups (e.g. Sinclair, Nexstar, etc.) are leaning towards 1080p HDR with advanced audio features (Atmos) as the most premium format that would be widely supported via ATSC 3.0 at any point in the next few years. 4K requires too much bandwidth (not feasible while 3.0 stations continue to share towers and bandwidth) and not enough consumers see sufficient difference in true 4K HDR vs. a decently encoded 1080p HDR signal that gets upscaled by the TV to fake 4K (or 8K) with HDR.

My guess is that when the networks begin offering 1080p HDR feeds to their affiliate stations, or maybe even *before* they begin doing that, we'll see them stream that same content in true 4K HDR via their own OTT apps: ABC on Hulu, CBS on Paramount+, NBC on Peacock. In fact, Hulu and Paramount+ are already offering their own original content and some movies in 4K HDR. Given that a big part of those services' appeal is their next-day access to broadcast network shows, it's only a matter of time until they begin offering those shows in 4K HDR too.

JosephB said:
Gateway tuners are a non-starter for most people. Maybe antennas with the tuners built in and wifi-enabled will be the true answer here

What you're describing is a gateway tuner. It's just an external tuner that connects to the home network (via ethernet and/or wifi) and distributes OTA TV to network-connected screens around the home.

JosephB said:
The thing about cable companies here is that technically they're not even carrying "ATSC 1.0" signals, they're just carrying the video re-encoded. In some, if not most, cases, the feed is from a fiber connection not even captured over the air. The MVPDs are absolutely not going to re-engineer their delivery systems and set top boxes to enable the interactive and targeted advertising of ATSC 3.0.

Agreed.

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JosephB

Dec 2, 2021

NashGuy said:
Virtually no one is buying a new TV just because it has an ATSC 3.0 tuner in it. And TV manufacturers seem to understand this. Check out the product pages on LG's and Sony's websites that showcase their various high-end model TVs that happen to include 3.0 tuners. Nothing about ATSC 3.0/NextGen TV is mentioned anywhere in the marketing copy touting those TVs' many advanced features. To even know that the TV has a 3.0 tuner, you have to pore over the small print in the specifications list.

Not sure if you're ignoring my point about the TV makers not ringing the bell marketing wise until ATSC 3.0 actually delivers something interesting on purpose or not. Eventually when you can do "cool new stuff" with ATSC then the TV makers will have an excuse to push it. Before that, they risk pissing off consumers. It's in a tiny fraction of markets right now, it's not time to make a huge hubub about it yet

NashGuy said:
4K requires too much bandwidth (not feasible while 3.0 stations continue to share towers and bandwidth) and not enough consumers see sufficient difference in true 4K HDR vs. a decently encoded 1080p HDR signal that gets upscaled by the TV to fake 4K (or 8K) with HDR.

I suspect the networks and even the local stations couldn't care less about 4K. If I were a betting man this is what I think the order of priorities are of what the TV stations want out of ATSC 3:
a. targeted advertising
b. paid services
c. increased signal reliability
d. ability to cram in more subchannels
.....
z. high quality 4K broadcasts

NashGuy said:
What you're describing is a gateway tuner. It's just an external tuner that connects to the home network (via ethernet and/or wifi) and distributes OTA TV to network-connected screens around the home.

My point here was that one less piece of hardware to plug in and configure. Yeah, an antenna with a networked tuner in it is a gateway tuner, but everyone has to have an antenna if they're doing OTA. A networked tuner is just one more hassle to setup physically. If it's integrated into the antenna, then that hassle is gone and the barrier to entry is no different than just an antenna and a TV

navychop

Dec 2, 2021

You are far too optimistic with your Z.

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NashGuy

Dec 3, 2021

JosephB said:
Not sure if you're ignoring my point about the TV makers not ringing the bell marketing wise until ATSC 3.0 actually delivers something interesting on purpose or not. Eventually when you can do "cool new stuff" with ATSC then the TV makers will have an excuse to push it. Before that, they risk pissing off consumers. It's in a tiny fraction of markets right now, it's not time to make a huge hubub about it yet

It's the classic chicken-and-egg problem. TV manufacturers don't want to push a feature (which increases the build cost of their product) that no one cares about, but the national networks that produce the high-value content carried by stations have little incentive to support ATSC 3.0 when hardly any consumers have equipment that can take advantage of it (and even if they did, only a sliver would use it anyhow since only about 1 in 6 households watch OTA TV). The only group that *really* wants ATSC 3.0 to succeed are the non-network-owned local station groups (e.g. Nexstar, Sinclair, etc.) but, without a government mandate to force a conversion from 1.0 to 3.0, there's really not all that much they can do to spur its adoption.

JosephB said:
I suspect the networks and even the local stations couldn't care less about 4K. If I were a betting man this is what I think the order of priorities are of what the TV stations want out of ATSC 3:
a. targeted advertising
b. paid services
c. increased signal reliability
d. ability to cram in more subchannels
.....
z. high quality 4K broadcasts

Except that "4K" has been a main buzzword that the National Association of Broadcasters has used in association with ATSC 3.0 since they began promoting the concept several years ago. If stations had the bandwidth and the networks were willing to offer them sports and primetime content in 4K, you can bet that they'd carry it. But, as I say, bandwidth is especially limited as long as its being divided between 1.0 and 3.0, forcing tower sharing. So 1080p HDR is the best one can hope for via 3.0 at any point in the foreseeable future.

The real value to local stations of having high-quality feeds (4K, HDR, etc.) is in being able to sell them to MVPDs for higher retrans rates. That's where the money is for local stations, not so much in free OTA broadcasting and the incremental ad revenue those viewers provide. That said, local stations could theoretically offer higher quality feeds to MVPDs than they broadcast OTA. This past summer we saw many NBC locals offer live feeds of the Olympics in 4K to certain MVPDs like Comcast and YouTube TV, even though they weren't even doing an ATSC 3.0 OTA broadcast. So those two things aren't necessarily linked.

As for targeted advertising via 3.0, yeah, I agree that that's of interest to stations but they'll likely need a minimum critical mass of 3.0 viewers before such an effort would be feasible/profitable. And of course, that feature has zero marketing appeal to consumers, so it does nothing to promote uptake.

JosephB said:
My point here was that one less piece of hardware to plug in and configure. Yeah, an antenna with a networked tuner in it is a gateway tuner, but everyone has to have an antenna if they're doing OTA. A networked tuner is just one more hassle to setup physically. If it's integrated into the antenna, then that hassle is gone and the barrier to entry is no different than just an antenna and a TV

Given that an antenna easily connects to a gateway/external tuner by just screwing in a coaxial cable, I doubt we'll see an antenna physically combined with a tuner. The tuner will need to connect to power, which limits where it can be placed. Better to have the antenna completely separate so that any length of coaxial cable (including pre-existing wiring already in the walls) can be used between the antenna and tuner, allowing for optimal antenna placement for signal reception.

JosephB

Dec 3, 2021

NashGuy said:
Except that "4K" has been a main buzzword that the National Association of Broadcasters has used in association with ATSC 3.0 since they began promoting the concept several years ago

4K is what they'll advertise to consumers to get them to buy new TVs, but the quality of that 4K video will be garbage. They will cram as many subchannels, or, paid content, into their allocations that there will be no bandwidth for a quality 4K HDR signal

The actual reason they want people to switch to ATSC 3.0, though, isn't because they care about the quality of their video. It's because they can then do targeted advertising, DRM, and paid services

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NashGuy

Dec 7, 2021

JosephB said:
4K is what they'll advertise to consumers to get them to buy new TVs, but the quality of that 4K video will be garbage. They will cram as many subchannels, or, paid content, into their allocations that there will be no bandwidth for a quality 4K HDR signal

Yeah, they're continuing to talk about "4K HDR" but, as I said, the best we can probably hope for is 1080 HDR and we'll see if that even happens or if it's given enough bandwidth to look good.

ATSC 3.0 launched today in Houston and it's the biggest launch in any market so far in terms of the number of stations participating: ten, including the local ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox, PBS, CW, My Network TV, Telemundo, Univision and Unimas. So all the major English and Spanish broadcast nets.

The press release put out about it mentions "Stunning 4K, High Dynamic Range (HDR) video" but of course all 10 channels being carried on 3.0 are in 1080p. They're only using two towers, so it's five 1080p channels per tower, which is pretty tight if they're keeping the S/N ratio and coverage area similar to a 1.0 tower.

JosephB said:
The actual reason they want people to switch to ATSC 3.0, though, isn't because they care about the quality of their video. It's because they can then do targeted advertising, DRM, and paid services

In order to make any money off targeted advertising and paid services, they're going to have to get a sufficient number of folks actually using ATSC 3.0. I really don't see much there that's going to compel folks to buy a new external tuner, which means that the transition from 1.0 to 3.0 will be a slow one that depends on folks replacing existing TVs with new ones that happen to contain a 3.0 tuner. Based on what I've read about TV replacement cycles, I'd be surprised if 50% of the TVs in the US that are used for OTA TV viewing will have a 3.0 tuner in them before 2028. And that's an optimistic timeframe.

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TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Today at 3:12 AM · posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Whiskey Pick: Frey Ranch Straight Bourbon

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omPQDqqbatQ

Direct YouTube Link - Whiskey Pick: Frey Ranch Straight Bourbon
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed

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Scott Greczkowski

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge

Last reply Today at 2:50 AM · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Song Name Game Part 3!

Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne

Get it?

An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....

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dishstaller

Yesterday at 11:17 PM

Owner Of a Lonely Heart - Yes

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long_time_Dish

Today at 12:40 AM

Lonely Street - Kansas

dishstaller

Today at 12:46 AM

Lonely is the Night - Billy Squier

long_time_Dish

Today at 1:41 AM

Lonely People - America

hwkn

Today at 2:50 AM

PEOPLE Are Strange-The Doors

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JSheridan

Lifetime Supporter

Last reply Today at 2:09 AM · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

All DMA's now Western Arc

I know HipKat said that they were working on conversions but we got the official news yesterday right from Dish that starting next month all DMA's will be on the western arc, and all customers will be assigned to that. That's gonna mean a lot of customers around here aren't gonna get Dish unless there are exceptions. Too many mountains and trees.

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MikeD-C05

Sep 26, 2026

I don't know why DISH doesn't just start a streaming version of DISH and then if you can't see the western arc you go with streaming versions and then they could keep customers if they had good internet speeds. I mean Sling TV could be changed to Streaming DISH TV if they wanted since both companies are under Echostar. Then you would still be able to use your ota antenna with Air TV devices like I do with Air TV Anywhere with 4 ota tuners.

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Scott Greczkowski

Sep 26, 2026

MikeD-C05 said:
I don't know why DISH doesn't just start a streaming version of DISH

I have the same wish.

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Strega

Friday at 10:01 PM

Even if you are broadcasting old SD-only shows, I would think advertisers would still want their commercials to look good.

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Jimbo

Friday at 11:17 PM

Strega said:
Even if you are broadcasting old SD-only shows, I would think advertisers would still want their commercials to look good.

Advertisers on SD channels are probably Far and Few, very hard to find, they have very few viewers to watch them.

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Mister B

Saturday at 7:35 AM

Jimbo said:
Advertisers on SD channels are probably Far and Few, very hard to find, they have very few viewers to watch them.

I watch mostly SD channels (H&I, Start and ION, etc.). There are plenty of advertisers, this time of the year it is mostly Medicare Advantage plans, auto extended warranties and the occasional walk-in-tub. They know who is watching.

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slow_poke_pete

Yesterday at 10:40 AM

Mister B said:
I watch mostly SD channels (H&I, Start and ION, etc.). There are plenty of advertisers, this time of the year it is mostly Medicare Advantage plans, auto extended warranties and the occasional walk-in-tub. They know who is watching.

can't forget the little blue m&m's

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charlesrshell

Yesterday at 11:23 AM

slow_poke_pete said:
can't forget the little blue m&m's

That's what my wife calls my Viagra!!

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bnewt

Yesterday at 3:30 PM

Scott Greczkowski said:
I have the same wish.

Why?
A lot of people do not have fast internet.
That is why they use satellite

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NYDutch

Yesterday at 7:40 PM

bnewt said:
Why?
A lot of people do not have fast internet.
That is why they use satellite

DISH will happily sell them a Starlink system and service.

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telstar_1

Yesterday at 8:12 PM

Why didn't Charlie end up launching starlink

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Foxbat

Yesterday at 9:01 PM

telstar_1 said:
Why didn't Charlie end up launching starlink

Because he didn't have a fleet of reusable rockets. Starlink works because SpaceX is able to launch hundreds (thousands?) of their Starlink satellites for what a single geostationary Internet satellite costs to build and launch on a disposable launcher.

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telstar_1

Today at 12:08 AM

But how is it reusable if it's disposable

slow_poke_pete

Today at 2:09 AM

charlesrshell said:
That's what my wife calls my Viagra!!

My gf is 29 years younger than me :shh

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dishstaller

Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter

Last reply Today at 1:03 AM · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Well crap....Donnie Iris died today

RIP dude. Always liked his music. He was 83

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH5Arbm47IQ

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dishstaller

Today at 1:03 AM

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFmPEgNuELM

dishstaller

Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter

Today at 12:39 AM · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Yosemite HD

This video was put up shortly after I was able to take my family out to Yosemite in 2011. No AI.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6-2fVsFV8E

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dishstaller

Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter

Last reply Yesterday at 11:41 PM · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Might want to watch this before you buy a new vehicle battery

Love this guy's channel. Looks like Walmart has thrown in the towel when it comes to conventional car batteries.

I bought a new AGM battery from Walmart about a year ago, it is already needing replacing. I thought about just buying a regular battery but from what I've read, that might not be a smart move. Might check my Forscan program and see if I can change the battery type from AGM.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awe7kY5nvdU

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harshness

Sunday at 11:33 AM

When you need a battery, you need a battery.

If you can wait, new technologies are on the not-too-distant horizon.

You're probably doing something wrong if you're only getting a year out of an AGM battery. Heat and infrequent charging both significantly reduce lifetime.

dishstaller

Sunday at 12:53 PM

harshness said:
You're probably doing something wrong if you're only getting a year out of an AGM battery. Heat and infrequent charging both significantly reduce lifetime.

Huh? How can I be doing something wrong.....I took out the original battery, that was 6 yrs old and put in a new one.....kinda hard to screw that up. I figure it was just a bad battery....it happens.

The biggest takeaway I got from this video was the Walmart batteries only had something like 85% of battery life left even though they were brand NEW. The ones from O'Reilly all tested 100% of life left.

Jimbo

Sunday at 1:01 PM

dishstaller said:
Huh? How can I be doing something wrong.....I took out the original battery, that was 6 yrs old and put in a new one.....kinda hard to screw that up. I figure it was just a bad battery....it happens.

The biggest takeaway I got from this video was the Walmart batteries only had something like 85% of battery life left even though they were brand NEW. The ones from O'Reilly all tested 100% of life left.

And the Walmart ones mostly had very little warranty.

My last AGM (using now) I got from O Rielly's, its the Super Start ... I got the Platnium, they had several to choose from.

telstar_1

Sunday at 1:14 PM

He sounds like he's trying to sell me a pocket hose.

I just had to replace a car battery this week and thought I'd look into LiFePo4. Amazon has plenty of them, but all have top posts and only one 'also' has side connections (Group 75).Then I read that they're really lousy in the cold. So, an AGM, but again, almost nothing with side terminals instead of top. In researching that, I read that most mfrs in recent years have dropped side terminals and gone back to the old top posts, which is surprising to me since those are more corrosion-prone, cause the battery to need more space and are generally more hazardous. Finally I just threw up my hands and bought a regular lead-acid at Sam's Club. They had a Group 75 "Duracell" with side terminals only. It was virtually the only such battery with side posts on their shelves

arlo

Sunday at 2:20 PM

Had a Die Hard in my folks cellar for over 6 years. Pulled it out, slapped it on a charger for a day. Put it in my 'Cuda and drove it around for a week of my vacation. Next year, the same. But my dad kept it topped off for me.It was a mid 80's battery in early 1990.

Flooded acid batteries like a float voltage of around 13.5-13.8 voltage.
AGM needs a float of 14.2 volts. So if you slap an AGM in where a flooded was. It never gets a full charge.
"Why do they die so fast?" Question answered. There are folks who sell voltage regulators for alternators that are designed to boost float voltage for AGM batteries.
The other way around? Flooded will gas-off a little at 14.2 volts. But seems to tolerate it pretty good.

Lithium car/bike/atv batteries. After 3 batteries in my Harley. The OEM flooded and two AGM's (before the 14.2 volt float requirement to let them live was learned). I bought a lithium for it. 4 year, no gripe warranty after having it tested by an approved store.
The thing started like Thor himself sent a bolt from the sky. Except......try to start it around freezing? Nope. Needed a heating pad.
And I usually like to park it around events in the evening with the parking light on. Looks cool like that.
We could traipse around for a few hours no worries. Hop on, fire it up, and go putt around.
Lithium? A Dakota Lithium at least. The BMS shuts it right down if it discharges below <something>.
Come back. Parking lights off. Won't start. And you know the rest. But it lasted 6 years. A lot better than 'new every two'. And the fact that powersports batteries are warranted for six, maybe nine months. Ludicrous.

I called Noco. Asked all of the right questions. Great warranty. Save some bucks ordering directly, faster service that the wally world alternative.
They addressed (or claimed over the phone) that the shut down was addressed. Sure. The BMS keeps it form being damaged. But if it is shut down because it does become low. Shut down any load (key on, parking or headlights left on) for 10-15 minutes and you get a second try to start your rig. Not a bad thing if it really works. Right?!

Exide, Interstate? Be very afraid. They ain't what they used to be. In Florida my '70 Cutlass had an Interstate (early 90') that lasted 6 years until it dropped its plates at an intersection and boiled over. In Florida, mind you. The last Interstate.....done in 2. Guys down there would suck out the acid and put water in shortly before the warranty ran out. Make it to the auto parts, get them tested. And get a new one pro rated. No more pro rating.
You can't beat an Odyssey. Napa, AC Deco (the better ones). Yup.
The mom and pop Car Quest only sells Die Hard. For a reason, the old man says. So they convinced that a Die HArd Platinum was the hot ticket for me. l will see. Stand by!

You can't cut Mr. Project Farm down. He does great tests of all sorts of things. Not sponsored and pressured to slap a little sugar on his comparisons and reviews. Compared to the Brits and Aussies with their constant overzealous and same sounding (Dave from EEVblog) rant. I like P-Farm a lot. Of course I like AvE (Boltr) too.
Reminds me to beware when wearing shorts around the garage vice.

Opinions may vary.

harshness

Yesterday at 9:17 AM

Jimbo said:
And the Walmart ones mostly had very little warranty.

The days of the 84-month warranty appear long gone, regardless of brand or where you acquired it. Warranties tend to be shorter, with much greater dependence on quick prorating.

The big problem for lead-acid batteries (whether flooded or AGM) is that the US no longer produces lead (the last smelter closed in 2013) and must import it.

Recycling covers a good chunk of the need (~70%), but it isn't free.

EarDemon

Yesterday at 11:32 PM

I've always got regular OEM Ford Motorcraft batteries from the dealership and have never really had an issue. On my old Lincoln Aviator (the SUV from the early 00s, not the CUV of today), I had some phantom drain and went though a few batteries, but that was an anomaly and with the standard warranty I got free replacements. Taking the Aviator out of the picture, I've bought two batteries in my 24 years of driving. One battery replacement in my Mountaineer, one in my Navigator. But I probably would have had another one had I kept it around longer. Didn't have the Bronco long enough, and so far still on the factory battery for my Expedition.

I run more than the average bear. Dash cam, two radar detectors (yes, I'm aware that can be problematic when using simultaneously), laser jammers and a police scanner. I'm in Buffalo, 90 degree summers and 0 degree winters. Once in a while in the dead of winter I'll get an alert from the Ford app saying remote features have been disabled to conserve battery, but it starts right up.

dishstaller

Yesterday at 11:41 PM

EarDemon said:
I run more than the average bear. Dash cam, two radar detectors (yes, I'm aware that can be problematic when using simultaneously), laser jammers and a police scanner.

View all replies (18)

Ramy

Supporting Founder

Last reply Yesterday at 11:12 PM · posted in The Sports Section

2026-27 NCAA College Football

Really excited for this season with Kentucky having a new coach and some really exciting recruits. Probably won't last long, but here's hoping this season is great.

168 Replies · 2390 views

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Jimbo

Yesterday at 9:22 PM

AI Overview

College Football Playoff bracket, schedule, scores, rankings ...

The 2025–26 College Football Playoff concluded with the Indiana Hoosiers winning the national championship by defeating the Miami Hurricanes 27–21. [1, 2, 3]

Playoff Results Summary
The 12-team playoff bracket featured the following key results across each round: [1]

- First Round: Alabama defeated Oklahoma (34–24), Miami (Fla.) beat Texas A&M (10–3), Ole Miss topped Tulane (41–10), and Oregon defeated James Madison (51–34) at higher-seeded campus sites.
- Quarterfinals: Miami (Fla.) upset Ohio State (24–14), Oregon shut out Texas Tech (23–0), top-ranked Indiana rolled past Alabama (38–3), and Ole Miss edged Georgia (39–34) across the New Year's Six bowls.
- Semifinals: Miami (Fla.) advanced past Ole Miss (31–27) in the Peach Bowl, while Indiana dominant-defeated Oregon (56–22) in the Fiesta Bowl.
- National Championship: Indiana secured the title with a 27–21 victory over Miami (Fla.) at Hard Rock Stadium. [1, 2, 3, 4]

Unfortunately, there was not rankings listed in this summary

AZ.

Yesterday at 9:38 PM

And no teams deserve a bye! Injuries are the largest part of the game that you cant practice for them. Any team can suffer the worst injury at any position on any play. No favorites.

Jimbo

Yesterday at 9:49 PM

AZ. said:
And no teams deserve a bye! Injuries are the largest part of the game that you cant practice for them. Any team can suffer the worst injury at any position on any play. No favorites.

I think they are actually discussing the Top 8 get a Bye this time, if they go to 24.
Then again, I heard something about Play in games for the 16-24 teams ...

Nothing is official yet, so lots of moving parts ...

Can't wait, lets do 24, 3 years later they will want 32 :sick

Yespage

Yesterday at 9:59 PM

AZ. said:
And no teams deserve a bye! Injuries are the largest part of the game that you cant practice for them. Any team can suffer the worst injury at any position on any play. No favorites.

While the bye can help the top four teams and those the Cartels would like to protect in the playoff, I think the bye is also about making the Cartel championships mean something. One problem with a playoff is it does diminish the conference title a bit.

Jimbo

Yesterday at 11:12 PM

Yespage said:
While the bye can help the top four teams and those the Cartels would like to protect in the playoff, I think the bye is also about making the Cartel championships mean something. One problem with a playoff is it does diminish the conference title a bit.

Once the 24 gets here, there won't be anymore Conference Championships .... or so they say.

Oh what the hell, we really don't need Conferences anymore either ... :coco