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Stuart Sweet
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Pub Member / Supporter Cutting Edge
· posted in The Solid Signal Blog
Are you the sort of person who thinks you always need more power? A lot of us are like that, and I don't blame you. But when it comes to amplifying signals, more power isn't always best. Believe me, Solid Signal sells great amplifiers for all sorts of signals, and I'd love to sell you one. But I don't want to sell you something you don't need. So, let's go over why an amplifier might not be what you think it is.

The three different kinds of amplifiers


When it comes to amplifiers for signals over a wire, there are three different kinds. Now, I'm not talking about audio amplifiers here, that's a completely different article. I'm talking about an amplifier you might use with a TV antenna, satellite dish, commercial headend system or even a cell phone signal booster. One thing that all these systems have in common is that they use a digital signal on an analog carrier, and that means an amplifier might not act the way you expect.

Preamplifiers


The purpose of a preamplifier, or preamp for short, is to overcome the loss inherent in a long cable run. If your antenna or satellite dish is up on the roof, you probably have 50-100 feet of cable between then antenna and the TV. Typically, a signal will lose about 6-9dB as it travels over that much cable. (I say typically, because every frequency and every cable are different.) The whole point of a preamp is that it pumps up the signal enough to account for that difference, without introducing a lot of noise.

Preamplifiers are also used on antennas to try to help small antennas act like big ones. If a digital signal comes in very weakly, it's going to be lost as it travels over a cable. Amplifying it will help with this, but it's not going to help you get signals that can't be received at all.

Distribution amplifiers


The purpose of a distribution amplifier is to overcome the loss inherent in splitting a signal. A typical 8-way splitter has about 14dB loss. Why? Because you're splitting the signal 8 ways, which means each output only has 1/8 the power. Another way of saying "1/8 the power" is 12dB loss. Add another 2dB for all the wires and connectors and that's what you get. The distribution amplifier can also act as a preamp in the sense that it can help offset the loss from longer cable runs as well. A distribution amplifier can tend to be a little "noisier" than a preamp.

Launch amplifiers


Most folks do not have any need for a launch amplifier. Launch amplifiers are used in commercial installs. The goal of a launch amplifier is to pump up the signal as high as it can possibly be without getting distorted, so it can travel through long lines and get split further down the line. You don't find launch amplifiers in homes because the signal levels from them are so high that you couldn't connect the line straight to a TV without damaging its tuner.

Let's talk about noise


When you're using digital signals, the most important measure is signal-to-noise ratio. I've talked about this several times before, but if you really want to dive in I'd look at this article, this article, and this article. If your signal level is too close to your noise level, then your TV or receiver won't be able to decode the signal. As long as they're sufficiently different levels, there's no problem. Any amount of signal above that level isn't going to help you at all.

If you have enough signal to overcome loss and keep the signal level higher than the noise level, more amplification won't help you. It may actually hurt you, as I'll explain below.

What happens when you overamplify a signal?


It's actually fairly easy to overamplify a signal. The amount of loss over lines is relatively low, and if you're not using a lot of large splitters, your signal level is going to be relatively strong. It could be so strong that it's outside the "input window" that's recommended for that sort of signal.

Signal levels are often measured in dBm, although there are other measures that are sometimes used. There's a decent calculator here that will let you convert between standards here. So, I'm going to refer to all signals in dBm. Generally dBm is shown as a negative number, with numbers closer to zero (like -5) being stronger than numbers further from zero (like -60.) Here's a tutorial to help you understand more.

Here's a very simple guide to know if your signal level is too low or too high. You'll need to have some sort of signal meter to get those numbers.

Type of SignalLowest LevelHighest Level
Satellite TV signals (before multiswitch)-45-25
Satellite TV signals (at receiver)-60-45
Over-the-air antenna (at TV)-50-5
Signals for distribution in commercial setting-50+20

If your signal level is within these parameters, you're going to get the signal you want. If the signal is too weak, it's going to drop out. On the other hand if it's too high, you risk damage to the receiver or TV. At any rate the signal will be distorted. It's sort of like when you talk too close to a microphone and your voice sounds weird and fuzzy.

Also, getting back to the idea of noise, remember that everything you add to a line (such as splitters, barrels, and connectors) increases the amount of noise on the line. With enough stuff, the amount of noise gets to be too close to the allowable signal level. At that point the whole thing stops working.

What can you do then, if you can't get the reception you want?


If you are having problems receiving signals, you first need to ask if that signal can even be received. Here are some reasons you wouldn't be able to receive a signal:

  • It's too far away (about 75-80 miles if you're talking about TV antennas)
  • There's too much stuff between you and the broadcast source
  • You can't put up the antenna you need in order to get that signal

If that signal source is too far away, there's not much you can do. Putting an antenna up high can help with this and also with obstructions. The higher the antenna is, the less stuff there is between it and the tower.

However, the biggest problem is usually that you can't use the antenna you need. The best antenna is generally going to be the biggest one. If your HOA doesn't allow it, or if you can't use an outdoor antenna, that's a problem. It's a problem that won't be solved by any amount of amplification.

If this all seems too hard…


Don't worry! You have experts on your side! If you're not sure about what you need for any sort of install you can call for help. Whether it's home or business, satellite, TV, or cellular, we're here to make it easy. Just call us! The number is 888-233-7563. We're here during East Coast business hours. If it's after hours, no problem! Fill out the form below. We'll get right back to you!


The post How to understand how much amplification you need (and don't need) appeared first on The Solid Signal Blog.

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Scott Greczkowski
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne


Get it?


An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....
68658 Replies · 2680179 views
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dishstaller
I Wanna Talk About Me - Toby Keith
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Bobby
98.6 - Keith
harshness
I'm Easy - Keith Carridine
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gms49ers
It's Easy - Boston
RaiderPower
Take It Easy On Me - Little River Band
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R
Last reply · posted in Computers and Gadgets
Lately my eight year old Dell laptop has been shutting off even when I have a full battery. I have had to keep it plugged up all the time to keep this from happening. Any idea what is causing this? I replaced the battery about three years ago.
2 Replies · 43 views
arlo
A recalibration might be needed. Even if it shows full, the individual cells may have become unbalaced. And the BMS chip in the battery reports false information to the pc.
Try this. Start it up in the bios/uefi and leave it there until the battery dies and it shuts off.
It might just keep running longer than in Windows. Or run for a short while and shut off.
If it's the first case. Probably just needs a balancing. If the latter, the pack might just be dead.
Not throwing stones but perhaps just a cheaply constructed battery with substandard cells. Could be.

Patience. Keep restarting it in bios/uefi until it won't fire up anymore.
Then plug the charger in and let it complete a full charge. And see what happens. If it's better.
Do the same thing one more time. Run it until it dies dead-dead. Then just let it charge, pc shut off.
When charged, it might be better. It might not be.

There are bench jigs that read the actual BMS and override it to let a tech manually monitor and charge the separate packs. They can also reset any "time bombs" in it that cause an otherwise good pack to show bad.
Maybe Santa will be good to me some year.

You might just need a new battery. Maybe the PC power management chip is going. A Dell common thing.
Leaving a laptop plugged in with a full battery is known to reduce the life. Asus for one recommends that you don't leave the charger plugged in all of the time even when shut down. And setting Windows to charge the battery to 85% instead of 100% increases life.
That's all I got.
dishstaller
That's all I got.
That was quite enough....I definitely learned something from your post. Thanks
TRG
TRG
Pub Member / Supporter
Last reply · posted in Computers and Gadgets
I set up a music server for my brother a few years ago. It's basically a small headless computer but it needs to have a DHCP IP address reserved for it in the router settings. This was easy to do in his DSL router. He's switching to Starlink now and I was wondering if these setting are easily accessible in the Starlink router. I'm pretty sure he will be getting the latest V5 router.
5 Replies · 282 views
b4pjoe
I set up a music server for my brother a few years ago. It's basically a small headless computer but it needs to have a DHCP IP address reserved for it in the router settings. This was easy to do in his DSL router. He's switching to Starlink now and I was wondering if these setting are easily accessible in the Starlink router. I'm pretty sure he will be getting the latest V5 router.
If you can't get into the router to reserve an IP address just don't use DHCP on the device that needs connected and assign it to a specific IP address in the network settings.
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HipKat
I set up a music server for my brother a few years ago. It's basically a small headless computer but it needs to have a DHCP IP address reserved for it in the router settings. This was easy to do in his DSL router. He's switching to Starlink now and I was wondering if these setting are easily accessible in the Starlink router. I'm pretty sure he will be getting the latest V5 router.
They are not. Your best bet is to set up a third-party router, attached to the Starlink for your server, that you can get into, like a Linksys, etc
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Foxbat
…it needs to have a DHCP IP address reserved for it in the router settings. This was easy to do in his DSL router. He's switching to Starlink now and I was wondering if these setting are easily accessible in the Starlink router. I'm pretty sure he will be getting the latest V5 router.
The Starlink V5 Install Kit I just got comes with the Mini Router. It is pretty limited in what it can do. For example, it can provide only one IP subnet at a time, no Guest Network, but it does support the pass-thru to a third-party Router. You can also split the Wi-Fi into separate 5 GHz & 2.4 GHz SSIDs to help some IoT devices that don't support 5 GHz bands to work.

The larger Starlink Router that still comes with the V4 Kit does support a Guest Network with separate IPv4 Subnet, but it's $120 from Starlink. And it still won't do DHCP Reservations.
harshness
If you can restrict the DHCP address space to assign addresses to one end of the subnet (i.e. x.x.x.50+), you can manually assign the IP address on pretty much any operating system. This is a default behavior on several popular routers. As the Router Mini only supports 235 devices, I expect that's already done.

Another option is to use a router that supports PoE to power the antenna. This article discusses that option (under PoE Power heading):

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Foxbat
Now that I've had the v5 kit with the Mini Router, it's not as bad as I first thought. Yes, no DHCP reservations, but you can set up multiple SSIDs that have separate IPv4 subnets, and like the big brother, you can select from 192.168.x.0/24 or 10.x.0.0/16 (where "x" is 1-4).

You can also split a subnet and have different SSIDs for the 5 GHz and 2.4 GHz channels to handle some IoT devices. I haven't discovered what subnet the 2nd NIC on the router assigns, I'm guessing it's the first subnet.
dishstaller
Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
2 Replies · 50 views
dishstaller
Sorry for posting the wrong link. Just corrected it.
dishstaller
Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
Terrible tragedy. You would think that they would have safe guards in place that would prevent something like this from happening. I guess if you are going to ride in a passenger train it might be best to get a car near the rear.

2 Replies · 53 views
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Jimbo
Terrible tragedy. You would think that they would have safe guards in place that would prevent something like this from happening. I guess if you are going to ride in a passenger train it might be best to get a car near the rear.

They will have to look at the switching sections to determine WHY 2 trains were on the same track ... at the same time.
dishstaller
Thought this article might be of interest to some of you who might travel via train.