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cyberham
cyberham
Last reply · posted in Free To Air (FTA) Discussion

Ice Pack

I may have asked this long ago but I forget. With the high temperatures we are now experiencing (about 88F yesterday), I'm wondering if enclosing an LNB in an ice pack would improve its performance. I find that reception on my C-band dish is better at night in particular on the occasional transponder that is at or slightly below C/N lock value during the day.

Or maybe it's the fact that the Sun is behind the dish in the evening that contributes to improved performance.
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Brct203
cyberham said:
I may have asked this long ago but I forget. With the high temperatures we are now experiencing (about 88F yesterday), I'm wondering if enclosing an LNB in an ice pack would improve its performance. I find that reception on my C-band dish is better at night in particular on the occasional transponder that is at or slightly below C/N lock value during the day.

Or maybe it's the fact that the Sun is behind the dish in the evening that contributes to improved performance.
Click to expand...
I would expect that lower temp of the LNB means lower noise so would improve the C/N ratio..

my experience is that I have poor view of the western end of the arc (127W and beyond), bacause they are low on the horizon and my neighbor has trees there. Even in winter when the trees are bare, I can get only a few TPs on 131 and 133 and nothing on 135W. However the few nights when it gets really cold I can get all of them. By really cold I mean bellow 5 F/-15C.

Now, is that because of the low temp effect on the electronics of the LNBF - it might be part of the equation but i doubt that it. Most likely it's the thermal noise of the trees that is much lower

My expectation, as explained above, is that the signal remains the same but the noise is lower, thus increasing the signal-to-noise ratio. But I wanted to verify that theory, so I plugged in my SDR and took some screenshots of the spectrum of a transponder and the adjacent noise floor when it was very cold and when it was back to normal temps later in the day. To my surprise, it was the opposite - the floor was the same and the signal was higher. As far as I know there was no automatic gain control involved (unless there's one in the LNBF itself?), so I'm very puzzled by it. Still, the bottom line was that it worked much better in very cold weather.

It woudl be interesting to see if ice packs make a difference in your case. I guess it's easy enough to try if you can easily reach the LNBF.

Please keep us posted if you try it
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mikekohl
Brct203 said:
I would expect that lower temp of the LNB means lower noise so would improve the C/N ratio..

my experience is that I have poor view of the western end of the arc (127W and beyond), bacause they are low on the horizon and my neighbor has trees there. Even in winter when the trees are bare, I can get only a few TPs on 131 and 133 and nothing on 135W. However the few nights when it gets really cold I can get all of them. By really cold I mean bellow 5 F/-15C.

Now, is that because of the low temp effect on the electronics of the LNBF - it might be part of the equation but i doubt that it. Most likely it's the thermal noise of the trees that is much lower

My expectation, as explained above, is that the signal remains the same but the noise is lower, thus increasing the signal-to-noise ratio. But I wanted to verify that theory, so I plugged in my SDR and took some screenshots of the spectrum of a transponder and the adjacent noise floor when it was very cold and when it was back to normal temps later in the day. To my surprise, it was the opposite - the floor was the same and the signal was higher. As far as I know there was no automatic gain control involved (unless there's one in the LNBF itself?), so I'm very puzzled by it. Still, the bottom line was that it worked much better in very cold weather.

It woudl be interesting to see if ice packs make a difference in your case. I guess it's easy enough to try if you can easily reach the LNBF.

Please keep us posted if you try it
Click to expand...
My experiences with dealing with thermal instabilities on LNBs and LNBFs go back several decades. I referred a friend to an oil company that was installing a 24 foot Orbitron antenna on an offshore drilling platform off Indonesia, and he provided valuable information. Without a weather cover, even using commercial LNBs (Norsat) of the best stability found in the mid 1990s, there was substantial drifting in Local Oscillator frequency from the intense daytime heat and solar radiation found at the equator. Orbitron supplied a weather cover (black plastic), so they installed it to cover the LNBs, and painted the weather cover WHITE. That was enough to physically eliminate a lot of the source of drifting (the sun beating down on bare metal). A second step was to cut an extra hole in the bottom of the weather cover, which allowed the muffin fan that was put inside the housing, to vent outwards. That further improved the system reliability.

Cold weather helps too. A friend at Prudhoe Bay in Alaska during the 1980s left a not-so-state of the art LNB out in the weather overnight (no cover, and at least 40 degrees below zero).
It ran flawlessly all night, but gave the user a sense of comfort that it would operate in conditions that cold. He ended up putting a weather cover over it, to avoid other weather issues such as wind and rain (and snow many months of the year).

Both of these situations physically confirm the correctness of everything that has been said in this thread, and when you connect such reality with complicated mathematical calculations, it should be considered a sure thing.
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cyberham
cyberham
Brct203 said:
...Even in winter when the trees are bare, I can get only a few TPs on 131 and 133 and nothing on 135W. However the few nights when it gets really cold I can get all of them. By really cold I mean bellow 5 F/-15C.
...

It would be interesting to see if ice packs make a difference in your case. I guess it's easy enough to try if you can easily reach the LNBF....
Click to expand...
I remembered I have some "fake" ice packs. These are plastic containers that contain liquid which you can put in the freezer to freeze. They keep something cold until they melt then you put them back in the freezer to refreeze. I can easily duct tape a couple to my LNBF, replace the feed cover if it fits and see if I get any interesting results.
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cyberham
cyberham
Let the experiment begin.

Starting data:
Time: 9:20 am
Temperature: 21 C (70 F)
Forecasted high: 25 C @ 3:00 pm (77 F)
Test tps at start:
125W 3860 V 30000: SNR 9.5 dB
125W 3900 V 30000: SNR 10.7 dB

Added 10:34 am & 22 C (71.6 F):
3860: 9.1 to 9.3 dB (varying but remaining locked)
3900: 10.3 to 10.6 dB (varying, locked)

Note: C/N minimum lock for these tps is 9.4 dB. 3860 is remaining solidly locked until the measured value drops occasionally below 9.0 dB. 3900 remains locked always since it is well above 9.4 dB.

Test tools:
Ice packs.jpg

Starting SNR:
125WC_3860V30000_920am.jpg
125WC_3900V30000_920am.jpg
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cyberham
cyberham
Added 10:49 am & 22 C (71.6 F):
3860: 8.6 to 8.9 dB (varying, unlocked)
3900: 10.0 to 10.1 dB (varying, locked)
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cyberham
cyberham
Added 4:45 pm & 25 C (77 F):
3860: 9.0 to 9.2 dB (varying, locked)
3900: 10.3 to 10.6 dB (varying, locked)

After 7 1/2 hours, I'm stopping. My sense is the former ice had no effect on SNR. I saw SNR drop through the day, lose lock on the main test tp and SNR is now beginning to rise again. I conclude there are more factors at play than just a warm LNB. Or perhaps a substantially colder LNB would be required.
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Y
Yespage
Pub Member / Supporter
· posted in The Sports Section

FIFA World Cup of Horrors

Mexico takes on South Africa to open the World Cup Final (it is called the Final... this just isn't the World Cup Final... Final). The tournament has been plagued with rife malfeasance as FIFA has been committing all sorts of fraud with the ticket sales. Hotel rooms have gone unfilled as the prices to attend a game and stay somewhere are through the roof. I swear this is impacting Mansfield, OH hotel rates which are higher than average for the Indycar race. And there is a broadening VAR presence which will ruin things as nothing worse now when scoring a goal and knowing you can't quite celebrate yet as they check to see if a player was offside by a pixel a half-hour ago.

The Group Stage used to mean something, but now 32 of the 48... yeah, 48 teams are going to the Knockout Round. Getting into the Knockout Round used to be a big deal, even for the US. But now... if you don't lose all of your group stage games, you get to move on. Oi! And this is avoiding all the political stuff!

I have never been so unexcited for a World Cup before. Every game used to matter. But FIFA be darned if they don't try to squeeze out every dime they can out of the players, refs, and fans.
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TWiT Tech Podcast Network
· posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Siri AI Is Apple’s Smarter, More Personal Voice Assistant!

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WsnN8HEcao


Direct YouTube Link - Siri AI Is Apple's Smarter, More Personal Voice Assistant!
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dfergie
dfergie
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU!
Last reply · posted in The Sports Section

NCAA Softball

Anybody been following the Tournaments? I've been watching all weekend on the various ESPN's...
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dfergie
Not a good inning… Kavan coming on could be the nail.
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dfergie
dfergie
Better team won tonight…
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osu1991
osu1991
Well crap. That wasn't fun. Oh well on to the CFL opener on cbs sportsnet.
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RaiderPower
RaiderPower
"In the end, there can be only one" - Duncan MacCleod of the clan MacCleod
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dfergie
dfergie
Last weekend I got in on a MLB game top of the 8th 1-1, first thought was extra innings... :D and it actually went extra after the 9th.
Catching a little of the AUSL, something to watch when I can't get into anything else.
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dfergie
dfergie
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU!
Last reply · posted in The Sports Section

Auto Racing 2026

New thread or keep this one?

View: https://www.youtube.com/live/AgOI9DNCmPg?si=l-YcZmHl7GXXF8fX
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Yespage
Caught up to the 500... err... k in St. Louis. What a race! Andretti Motorsport were doing very well with Ericsson and Kirkwood, meanwhile Power was moving up the grid. Veekay started cautiously. He was working the tires just right, becoming more lethal later in the stint. Rasmussen was racing likewise, not nearly as insane as he has in the past. Palou was leading the race, in a shocker to all. Caio Collet was having a wonderful ride, making Ferucci potentially sweat a bit. Rain came, rain went, rain came, rain went. Generally mild sprinkles, but enough to pause racing on an oval.

Palou would kind of send Siegel into the wall. Siegel really didn't do much wrong. As he noted, you have to turn at some point. Palou had acres of room below and Siegel might have had his ticket out of Indycar stamped. Dixon was doing the fuel thing and got busted twice by yellows, not pitting before the flag came out. Then the most critical happened... Palou ran out of gas on pit lane, effectively giving Newgarden the race lead and win. Newgarden had a very early pit, so he was able to slide in, get service and go. Meanwhile, everyone else was confused and stuck behind Palou for a bit. Once people figured what was happening, Newgarden had a major advantage of several seconds. Newgarden wouldn't look back and when it went green again, he'd hold the lead for the win.

Massive credit to Juncos Hollinger who bested Penske in getting Veekay out before Malukas in a transition that was oddly bizarre. I haven't had time to check, but I'm wondering if Veekay was about to run out of fuel or cut a tire. He was charging late in a stint, got up to fifth, and then tailed back for a few laps to 10th or 11th. It looked like it was over. Went into the pits, and after the pitting sequence was over, Veekay was well inside the top ten again. It was weird. And he charged, getting up to fourth. He made a late move on Rasmussen, but Rasmussen held his position with some great driving. In fact, there was a ton of incredible racing passing, not passing all race long. Veekay would finish 4th. A podium would have been awesome, but it is a great outcome for a guy who hopefully will get a break with a big team. We saw what Veekay could do with a Honda last season with fuel save, imagine replacing Simpson on Ganassi and having speed to go with fuel saving. His 6th at Indy and 4th at St. Louis get him up to 13th in the points standings and only 5 points outside of the top 10.

Ericsson finished second, resigned to finishing behind the current best in the world guy on a short oval. Rasmussen got the final step on the podium, a nice rebound to what has been an otherwise bad year for him, and a good reward to ECR who just extended his contract.
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Yespage
They raced USAC cars at Daytona once. Once! People died. Aj Foyt said 'f this', and left after the first go around. AJ freaking Foyt thought it was crazy! And cars weren't nearly as fast as they are now.

I think they tried Talladega once too.
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Yespage
LeMans qualifying on going. WEC has d9ne a great job expanding the automotive company entries. Even without Porsche, a large nunber of manufacturers.
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dfergie
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jcrandall
jcrandall
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU!
Last reply · posted in DIRECTV Programming Forum

Channels on DIRECTV Satellite and not on Stream/Internet

So...DirecTV advertises the Choice package with 95+ bonus channels for Satellite customers. You don't want 90+ of the 95...

Excluding PPV, premium networks, infomercial, shopping, religion, and non-English programming, there are 7 channels on satellite that are not on streaming:
NFL Network, MavTV, FE TV, Free Speech, NASA, INSP, and Pursuit. I'm pretty sure a couple of those are public interest that they have to carry to meet an FCC quota on satellite.

I hope they get called out for this advertising because that is ridiculous. One big network, NFL, will probably get added to streaming when their next agreement comes up, and the rest are likely very low viewership.

What about streaming, what do you get extra with the Choice package that isn't on Satellite:
Two stations - one of which is an internet TV - Fox Weather, and Heros & Icons (a diginet). Nothing special here to look at either.

If they cleaned up a couple of their agreements, added a few public interest stations to streaming, they could probably have their lineups match. It's close now, if you take out all the garbage on satellite that they earn money on. If they can sell infomercials on satellite, why can't they on streaming, seems like a miss. A bigger miss, including those stations in the "bonus channels just for satellite customers." Pretty sad marketing right there.

1681344805401.png


Attached is a comparison sheet of satellite vs streaming for the three main packages if anyone is interested.

MOD EDIT: See Post #3 for an up to date list of what channels are available on sat but not on streaming/internet, see Post #21 for an up to date list of what's available in the app for streaming customers, but not for sat customers.
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DirecTV Sat vs Stream.pdf 46 KB
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KyL416
107 LIVE4K3 and 108 LIVE4K4 are now testing on the stream server
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mario315
KyL416 said:
107 LIVE4K3 and 108 LIVE4K4 are now testing on the stream server
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Happy to see that DTV Stream will finally line up fully with the DTV Satellite 4K content and Channel Guide.
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mario315
KyL416 said:
107 LIVE4K3 and 108 LIVE4K4 are now testing on the stream server
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They turned them on today !
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mario315
mario315 said:
They turned them on today !
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I see in the 4K Channels Guide that the Telemundo WC games will be airing in 4K. I believe this is the first time ever we will have Spanish-language broadcasts in 4K (in the USA). Did not happen during the last World Cup in Qatar 2022.
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dtv757
dtv757
4K telemundo working !

406 still SD here in Norfolk Va 📡
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Scott Greczkowski
Scott Greczkowski
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Song Name Game Part 3!

Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne


Get it?


An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....
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harshness
Time After Time - Cyndi Lauper
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sdfntx
Right on Time - Brandi Carlile
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gms49ers
Time Stand Still - Rush
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Bobby
I Can't Help It (If I'm Still In Love With You) - B.J. Thomas
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long_time_DNC
Help Is On Its Way - Little River Band
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TWiT Tech Podcast Network
· posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Apple Intelligence: Siri AI Revolutionizes Your Devices! #shorts

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!


View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/8ErY6s7b8WI


Direct YouTube Link - Apple Intelligence: Siri AI Revolutionizes Your Devices! #shorts
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TWiT Tech Podcast Network
· posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Tech News Weekly 441

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JL5XFOpX4_A


Direct YouTube Link - Tech News Weekly 441
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TWiT Tech Podcast Network
· posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Home Theater Audio: JBL SCL-6 Speaker Custom Build! #shorts

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!


View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/CRhynF2RE20


Direct YouTube Link - Home Theater Audio: JBL SCL-6 Speaker Custom Build! #shorts
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T
teachtom
· posted in DISH Network Support Forum

Problem when I switch from Bonus View channels back to regular Dish channels

Hello everyone, new guy here. I'm trying to solve problem I'm having with Dish bonus view channels. When I'm watching the bonus view channels then I switch back to regular dish channels, after few minutes the screen flips to black and after 30 seconds flips back to regular channels and continues to flip back and forth until I turn off TV. After I wait 30 minutes and turn back on , I can use regular channels again. So, its after I switch from bonus view channels to regular dish channels the problem starts. Been trying to fix this for a month, but no luck
Here what I've done.
i contacted Dish support and they sent me a new Joey3, but no help. Switched to a different HDMI input on TV, no help. Used different HDMI cable , no help. Used different electrical wall plug, no help.
Finally got a Dish tech to check it. He ran all systems check and was OK. Finally he brought in a small TV and plugged in the HDMI out from the Joey to the small TV. He could not get the problem to occur on his small TV, so the new Joey was working OK. So, then the problem must be myTV. He made some phone calls and came back with the answer that there must be a problem with the analog to digital switch in my TV. Has anyone ever heard of a problem like this, or is it time to be looking for a new TV? My tv LG OLED65C8PUA. TV has been trouble free til now. Thanks
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