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waltinvt
Supporting Founder
Last reply · posted in DISH Network Support Forum
Since Dish may be offering the 3 remaining HD DNS soon, have any of you legal experts out there had a chance to digest the FCC's 12-9-05 report to congress and determine the likely qualification procdures.

It's a massive read and all the players appeared to have had their say but beyond the fact that we still have the existing Longley-Rice signal predictive model, I'm not sure what's been decided.

To my pea brain it looks those that can't get grade "B" "digital" signals OTA CAN receive the HD DNS from Dish regardless of whether Dish offers analog LiLs in your area.

Go here: http://www.fcc.gov/
and scroll down to:
12/9/05
Report to Congress - The Satellite Home Viewer Extension and Reauthorization Act of 2004.
Report: Word | Acrobat
Comments (Appendix E): Part 1 - 13MB | Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4 | Part 5
4 Replies · 1514 views
drdr
Well, this is pretty technical. Here are some highlights:

"In particular, the Commission adopted rules
establishing a standardized method for measuring the strength of analog television signals on-site at
individual locations. And finally, it endorsed a method for predicting the strength of such signals that
could be used in place of actually taking measurements."

"The rules also provide for a neutral and independent entity to evaluate the
qualifications of potential testers to conduct on-site signal strength measurements in cases where a
network television station denies a subscriber's request for a waiver of the ILLR prediction that the
viewer is "served.""

"For DTV, the Commission assumes that the receiving
antenna is located outdoors at a height of 9 meters above ground."

"Under both the analog Grade B and digital noise-limited F(50,90) service standards, an acceptable
television picture and sound service is available at 50% of the locations for 90% of the time at locations
on the outer edge of a station's service area."

They also quote some dubious arguments from NAB about outdoor VHF antennas and towers being equivalent to small satellite dishes. The complexity of installing a 30 foot tower seems slightly greater than putting a 20" DBS dish on the roof, but then I don't work for the federal government.

"Additionally,
NAB asserts that satellite dish antennas can only be used outdoors, usually atop a roof, and, therefore, it
would be "egregiously discriminatory" for the Commission to conclude that while satellite subscribers are
expected to rely on a rooftop antenna for their satellite reception, they cannot be expected to do the same
to pick up over-the-air signals."

The problem remains for those on the fringe of the "service area". If you are at the edge of the grade B contour, you apparently are expected to put up a high antenna with good gain. Even then, you may be out of luck in terms of reliable reception. The ILLR model is far from perfect and will not accurately predict reception at many locations. There is no substitute for measuring the actual signal received over time.

But I agree, if you are outside the digital grade B contour, then you should still be eligible for digital DNS. Whether this means you get HD DNS, I have no idea. Many people conflate digital with HDTV. The FCC doesn't seem to care whether stations are broadcasting SD or HD on their digital channel as long as they stay within their assigned frequencies. I would guess that this means that you can get digital DNS. Whether the DBS providers retransmit this as HD or SD would have to be negiotated between the provider and the distant network station. This is just guesswork on my part, though.
waltinvt
drdr said:
Well, this is pretty technical. Here are some highlights:

"In particular, the Commission adopted rules
establishing a standardized method for measuring the strength of analog television signals on-site at
individual locations. And finally, it endorsed a method for predicting the strength of such signals that
could be used in place of actually taking measurements."

"The rules also provide for a neutral and independent entity to evaluate the
qualifications of potential testers to conduct on-site signal strength measurements in cases where a
network television station denies a subscriber's request for a waiver of the ILLR prediction that the
viewer is "served.""

"For DTV, the Commission assumes that the receiving
antenna is located outdoors at a height of 9 meters above ground."

"Under both the analog Grade B and digital noise-limited F(50,90) service standards, an acceptable
television picture and sound service is available at 50% of the locations for 90% of the time at locations
on the outer edge of a station's service area."

They also quote some dubious arguments from NAB about outdoor VHF antennas and towers being equivalent to small satellite dishes. The complexity of installing a 30 foot tower seems slightly greater than putting a 20" DBS dish on the roof, but then I don't work for the federal government.

"Additionally,
NAB asserts that satellite dish antennas can only be used outdoors, usually atop a roof, and, therefore, it
would be "egregiously discriminatory" for the Commission to conclude that while satellite subscribers are
expected to rely on a rooftop antenna for their satellite reception, they cannot be expected to do the same
to pick up over-the-air signals."

The problem remains for those on the fringe of the "service area". If you are at the edge of the grade B contour, you apparently are expected to put up a high antenna with good gain. Even then, you may be out of luck in terms of reliable reception. The ILLR model is far from perfect and will not accurately predict reception at many locations. There is no substitute for measuring the actual signal received over time.

But I agree, if you are outside the digital grade B contour, then you should still be eligible for digital DNS. Whether this means you get HD DNS, I have no idea. Many people conflate digital with HDTV. The FCC doesn't seem to care whether stations are broadcasting SD or HD on their digital channel as long as they stay within their assigned frequencies. I would guess that this means that you can get digital DNS. Whether the DBS providers retransmit this as HD or SD would have to be negiotated between the provider and the distant network station. This is just guesswork on my part, though.

Well thanks for the quick and concise report. It will be interresting to see what others think too. I agree with the digital / HD comment but in the case of the national nets, most of their prime time programming on their digital feeds is in HD which is why we often refer to them as the HD DNS.

I think the main point is that they're making some distinctions between digital and analog and more clearly saying that just because you can get analog locals from DBS doesn't mean you can't get the distnat digital feeds from DBS.

Personally I think this is what "E" has been waiting for and why they didn't follow "D" when they started providing digital DNS last year.

A lot of local affiliates have been hiding behind the ambiguity of SHVERA for over a year but now they're going to have to start getting a digital signal to the roof top or loose viewers to satellite.
drdr
Many local stations have full power analog signals and low power digital signals, so maybe they could lose viewers to DNS because of this.

On the other hand, I could imaging a dispute involving DNS availability and retransmission agreements with local stations (you can't have our analog signal if you provide digital DNS in our market?)
waltinvt
drdr said:
Many local stations have full power analog signals and low power digital signals, so maybe they could lose viewers to DNS because of this.

On the other hand, I could imaging a dispute involving DNS availability and retransmission agreements with local stations (you can't have our analog signal if you provide digital DNS in our market?)

Never happen, their (true) market area is increased greatly by DBS providing analog LiLs. Plus the minute they took them away from satellite, everyone that couldn't get a grade "B" signal would again be entitled to the analog DNS again under the (still) existing Shivera (SHIVA). Besides, the national networks WANT viewers to receive a good high def signal and they're tired of a lot of these affiliates dragging their feet getting it to the viewer. The nationals are the copywrite owners and affiliate contract negotiations are going to be a bear as they come up for renewal.
b4pjoe
Pub Member / Supporter Cutting Edge
Last reply · posted in Computers and Gadgets
13 Replies · 311 views
Neutron
Another reason I'm glad we are swapping or Rokus out for Apple TVs. I was already planning on ditching the Rokus earlier this year and had been waiting on Apple to announce the new one last month. Our Rokus have had issues the last year or so with freezing video and reboots, and one with an HDCP issue randomly.
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TRG
TRG
Another reason I'm glad we are swapping or Rokus out for Apple TVs. I was already planning on ditching the Rokus earlier this year and had been waiting on Apple to announce the new one last month. Our Rokus have had issues the last year or so with freezing video and reboots, and one with an HDCP issue randomly.
Hmmm... I don't have any of those problems with my Roku devices. I have 3 of them.
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navychop
I suspect Fox will make me consider 2-3 more Apple TV STB purchases.
harshness
I suspect Fox will make me consider 2-3 more Apple TV STB purchases.
Until I can get a mortgage on an ATV, I doubt that's going to happen for me.

As much as the price has gone up, the complaints on the forums about this, that, and the other nits surrounding various limitations and Apple business decisions seem to be keeping pace.
Jimbo
Hmmm... I don't have any of those problems with my Roku devices. I have 3 of them.
I have the Roku's, 2 or 3, I just rarely use them ... I prefer the Google/Android Sony set up.

People tell me that the Apps on the TV will end thier usefulness as they age ... They are doing ok for me so far ... I also have the TV take the App Updates whenever possible ... then again, I don't know how often App updates come to it.

So, so far, I'm doing ok, but if they start to get sluggish, I'll eventually change to a Roku ... I don't want to, but eventually ... (Or buy another new TV :eeek:shh:clapping:biggrin
R
I suspect Fox will make me consider 2-3 more Apple TV STB purchases.
As long as my Roku Ultra works I will use it. I use it for all of my streaming apps except for Prime. I read that Prime works best with Android TV's.
navychop
Hmmm. Not watching much Prime, but it would be on our Apple TV STB.

You know of any drawbacks using Ultra and Prime?
Scott Greczkowski
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne


Get it?


An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....
68770 Replies · 2687224 views
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long_time_Dish
Really Wanna Know You - Gary Wright
H
Don't WANNA KNOW-Maroon 5
harshness
I Want to Know What Love Is - Foreigner
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Bobby
Oh What A Night For Dancing - Barry White
sdfntx
It's a Good Night for Singing - Jerry Jeff Walker
dfergie
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU!
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
Stumbled across this ... http://www.gaspricewatch.com/USGas_ZipSearch.asp
I found no local prices, although it did show stations at my location...
Added these to this post...
USA National Gas Temperature Map
State By State Gasoline Taxes
Gas Buddy

Ethanol Free Stations

5569 Replies · 462434 views
Bobby
Regular$5.459​
Premium$5.899​
Diesel$7.999​
at Costco, Rohnert Park.​
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dishstaller
Billboard along I-10 had reg at $3.81 and diesel at $5.54
Bobby
Regular$5.399​
Premium$5.899​
Diesel$7.999​
at Costco, Rohnert Park.​
osu1991
$3.55
R
$3.45 in Jane, MO.
K
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Pub Member / Supporter Cutting Edge
Last reply · posted in DIRECTV Programming Forum
https://www.directv.com/insider/mysports-changes-the-game/
https://streamtv.directv.com/mysports/ (You might have to logout or open a private window to see the details)
As of now this is only available for streaming customers in select markets. Existing streaming customers can switch to it for $69.99, but they are not eligible for the $20 off for 3 months discount. More genre-specific packages will launch during the first half of the year.


At launch, MySports includes 40 sports and broadcast channels and is initially available in 24 metro areas, including New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Philadelphia, San Francisco Bay Area, and others. Click here for more information and the list of initial launch markets. The availability of MySports will expand into additional markets as DIRECTV adds more local stations to the package.

The streamlined MySports package includes national and local channels in select markets, as well as live news channels.

National sports channels immediately available through MySports include ACC Network, Big Ten Network, DIRECTV 4K Live, DIRECTV 4K Live 2, ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNews, ESPNU, Fox Sports 1, Fox Sports 2, Golf Channel, MLB Network, NBA TV, NFL Network, NHL Network, SEC Network, TBS, TNT, TruTV and USA Network. Local channels will initially include any stations owned and operated by ABC, FOX, and NBC, with additional stations coming online soon.

Additional networks, local stations and ESPN+, will be included in MySports at no extra cost in the near future.

Consumers who sign up online for the contract-free package before Feb. 28, 2025, can receive MySports for $49.99 monthly for the first three months, a $20 monthly savings. After the free trial, it auto-renews monthly, and consumers can cancel anytime.
75 Replies · 8257 views
K
They recently split the news channels off of MySports, so CNBC, CNN, FBN, FNC and MSNOW are no longer part of it.

MySports was decreased to $64.99, and a new "MySports+MyNews Duo" pack is $79.99, which will also give you Bloomberg, CNBC World, CNNI, the C-SPANs, i24 and Newsmax.

Tennis Channel also joined MySports at some point over the past year.
C
They recently split the news channels off of MySports, so CNBC, CNN, FBN, FNC and MSNOW are no longer part of it.

MySports was decreased to $64.99, and a new "MySports+MyNews Duo" pack is $79.99, which will also give you Bloomberg, CNBC World, CNNI, the C-SPANs, i24 and Newsmax.

Tennis Channel also joined MySports at some point over the past year.
AMC+ now included in MyEntertainment Pack. I guess we know why the $8 price increase.
K
Here's the Insider article. Shudder is now part of MyCinema and Fanatiz1 was added to the Spanish packages last Friday. PX Sports was also added a few weeks ago.

It's not just AMC+ driving the price increases on the genre packs, the rest of the AMC Networks (AMC, WE, IFC, Sundance, BBC America), along with Paramount/CBS, Hallmark, Weigel and others joined since they debuted last year.
K
MySports now has some CW affiliates, and MyNews now has some CW affiliates and the MyNetworkTV O&Os.

At quick check, it looks like the CBS and Sinclair owned CW affiliates are missing.
C
MySports now has some CW affiliates, and MyNews now has some CW affiliates and the MyNetworkTV O&Os.

At quick check, it looks like the CBS and Sinclair owned CW affiliates are missing.
No Hearst owned CW in Orlando
osu1991
Pub Member / Supporter
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club

The number-one US state for EV growth, according to the June 22 Yardi report?
Oklahoma.


:eek


It has no ZEV mandates and "minimal" incentives, Yardi says, but also has cheap electricity, high multi-car household rates (so, for example, a non-Lightning Ford F-150 pulls their trailers), and a consumer base willing to switch.
121 Replies · 1318 views
osu1991

The Cybertruck was supposed to make the F-150 obsolete. It wasn't supposed to be boring, like a Ford or a Chevy. It was supposed to be "more truck than truck." It turns out, people just wanted trucks that were trucks, and CEO Elon Musk announced on X earlier this morning is that the Cybertruck is dying.


Ending production in middle of next year at gigatexas for cybercab production.
  • Wow
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dishstaller
IF they had made the cyber truck more like a conventional truck, more would have bought it. There is a REASON trucks all have a very similar layout....it's what people want AND it serves the purposes those of us who have a truck needs.
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harshness
There is a REASON trucks all have a very similar layout....it's what people want AND it serves the purposes those of us who have a truck needs.
As it is, most consumers buy trucks as comfortable transportation rather than commercial utility. The Cybertruck approach to that goal was way out in left field. It turned out to be more of an austere sedan with awful daily-driver attributes (visibility, parking). The expectations regarding truck durability were dashed early on.
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Neutron
Supporting Founder
Last reply · posted in Computers and Gadgets
Does anyone here use Apple Home/HomeKit with HomePods or Apple TV to automate smart devices in their house? We have had Amazon's Alexa set up in our house for the last 10+ years and I have been waiting to switch them out to Apple for a few reasons; We are already in the Apple ecosystem with our phones, tablets, and computers. I have never liked Amazon's stance on privacy and I really like that Apple has pushed for privacy for a long time.

I bought 4 of the new HomePod Mini 2 speakers to go in various rooms in our house and we have one of the new Apple TVs on preorder that will be the start of me replacing our Rokus. I have the HomePod Mini 2s set up and have an RPi that is running HomeBridge for our legacy smart devices that worked natively with Alexa but don't work with Apple Home natively. I had trouble with the older smart bulbs not keeping the brightness or light color consistent with what our routines were with Alexa despite trying every setting in HomeBridge with the bulbs just not shining very bright. I ended up replacing them with updated versions that are Matter compatible so they work in Apple Home natively. That in and of itself has been interesting to set up because I have my home network segretated with the IoT devices on their own vlan and wifi and pretty locked down. Matter requires IPv6 and due to how my home network is designed I had to do some digging with AI to figure out how to make it all work correctly.

Apple Home definitely has some shortcomings that Alexa does much better with but I am hoping Apple will continue to improve their Home products and introduce features that will bring it closer to the functionality of Alexa.
5 Replies · 86 views
b4pjoe
I tried HomeKit to be able to see my Ring cameras on my Apple TV as they are not supported natively on Apple devices. The best I could get was to be able to view the cameras live but I could not view any recordings. After the last major update version of HomeKit I could not even view the live cameras anymore. I gave up on it after that. If I were going to do it again I would only buy devices that can work on Apple devices natively as HomeKit didn't work well at all for me.
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Neutron
I tried HomeKit to be able to see my Ring cameras on my Apple TV as they are not supported natively on Apple devices. The best I could get was to be able to view the cameras live but I could not view any recordings. After the last major update version of HomeKit I could not even view the live cameras anymore. I gave up on it after that. If I were going to do it again I would only buy devices that can work on Apple devices natively as HomeKit didn't work well at all for me.
That's what I started doing after seeing legacy devices work hit or miss using the HomeBridge. At least Apple is following a standard now with Matter which is unusual for Apple. Looks like HomeBridge does allow you to see the live views but I haven't seen how to view past recordings. I'd really like to ditch Ring altogether due to their stance on privacy and if I had my choice I'd go with UniFi since that's what I use for my network and I like the idea of my camera recordings being all local and not in the cloud. UniFi doorbells and cameras are quite pricey though.

I'll try to access the Ring doorbells in Apple Home for now but I'll see if it's useful any.
Foxbat
I found that the IoT devices need to see the Apple TV to be able to use it as the HomeKit Hub. Unfortunately, that means being in the same IPv4 subnet.

I was thinking of getting a HomePod Mini for my Mother-in-Law to play music and set up HomeKit scenes, as well as make FaceTime Audio calls. When Apple announced their price rises due to RAMageddon, I kicked myself as they went up 50% in cost. I'll be curious to see the HomeView in person as this might not be a bad way to get her started on automation.

She asked about it because her friends have Alexa and they use it to control lights. But like you, I feel better putting in a HomePod or HomeView that's listening for commands instead of Amazon or Google.
b4pjoe
That's what I started doing after seeing legacy devices work hit or miss using the HomeBridge.
Homebridge is what I meant when I said HomeKit. Forgot the name of it.
harshness
I find that I don't interact with my home automation system (Hubitat Elevation) as much as I thought I would.

Apple made everything more expensive and less flexible with its "our way or the highway" approach. To be sure, a Homebridge server addresses some of the major deficiencies, but it seems like it will always be a battle to keep pasting things together.
G
· posted in DISH Network Support Forum
After a strange reboot last night in the middle of viewing, this morning several more reboots and about a half an hour download.
0 Replies · 33 views
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