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Last reply · posted in DIRECTV General Forum
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Three Trends Spell Doom for the Popular Personal Video Recorder

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By Jim Louderback

March 19— It's always hard to write an obituary, especially when the subject is still alive. It's especially hard for me, because I love the little guy like a brother. But, alas, TiVo will die.


I was one of the first reviewers to get my hands on an early TiVo box. I compared TiVo with ReplayTV, and although I really wanted to like ReplayTV, TiVo won my heart over.

It wasn't the cutesy mascot, although that helped. Rather, it was the drop-dead simplicity and ease of use that even the first version evinced. And to top everything off, TiVo came with the world's best remote control ever, even more astounding for such a fiendishly complex device. Shaped like a dog bone, it was simple to use, easy to understand, and a pleasure to hold.

The Wall Street Journal's arbiter of tech — Walt Mossberg — still thinks ReplayTV was better, and we've argued over the brilliance of the remote. But the acid test, for me, was when I plopped TiVo down in front of my computer-averse wife. She took to it like a duck to water. So much, in fact, that I soon purchased another one just so I could watch what I wanted to see.

But TiVo today has a problem — and it's not what you think. Most folks point to TiVo's inability to convince consumers just how cool the product is and why they need one.

Yes, it's hard to describe why a personal video recorder (PVR) is better than a VCR — until you use one. Give a TiVo to your friends for a month and you'll have to pry the remote out of their cold, dead hands. ReplayTV faces the same challenge, but that's not where the real threat lies.

Instead, a convergence of three separate trends is conspiring to kill off TiVo.

The Three Horsemen
Moore's Law. The first one, ironically, derives from the same technology that enabled TiVo to live in the first place: Moore's Law. As chips got powerful enough and hard drives cheap enough, the PVR was inevitable. But now the raw materials are cheap enough to put hard drive–based video recording into just about anything.

It's not just cheap components. Television delivery has changed, too. The original TiVo was designed to suck in an analog TV signal, via either antenna or cable. It also included analog S-Video and composite ports for set-top boxes, which aside from DirecTV and Dish Network were mostly analog, too.

Fast-forward to today. Nearly half of what the industry calls multichannel homes (those with cable or satellite) receive their TV in digital form.

And that's bad news for standalone PVRs like TiVo and ReplayTV. Satellite providers Comcast, DirecTV, and Dish — and companies that offer digital cable service — have spent oodles of cash buying up the best available MPEG compressors to convert analog feeds from broadcast networks, ESPN, HBO, and the other cable networks into compressed digital bits for home delivery.

It's a Generational Thing. Even with digital cable or satellite services, the broadcast signals spend little time in digital form. Within the home, a set-top box first converts everything to analog (the box doesn't know whether you have HDTV). Then, if you're using a standard TiVo, that data is reconverted into digital form (MPEG) for time shifting and storage. But the data undergoes one more conversion back to analog, so it can play on a traditional television set.

Just as in the old audiocassette days — where if you copied your best friend's mix tape, a bit more hiss came along with each generation farther removed from the source — the two-step analog-to-digital conversion causes noticeable and annoying artifacts. And as TVs get bigger and cable companies squeeze more channels into the same space, those blocky artifacts will become worse and worse.

So what's the solution? Stay digital all the way. TiVo realized this early on and swung a deal with DirecTV to build a combination PVR and DirecTV tuner. With the DirecTiVo, the fat digital bits from the satellite go right onto the hard drive and aren't converted to analog until they squirt into your TV.

Good first step. But since DirecTV had TiVo, archrival Dish Network decided to develop its own PVR/receiver combo. The Dish Player still lacks some of the basic show-finding features TiVo has had for years, including wish lists and season passes. It's also buggy, as well-known usability expert Bruce Tognazzini details in his blog (www.asktog.com). But because the picture is better than an analog TiVo's, Dish customers have flocked to the Dish Player in droves. For TiVo, this has caused enough concern that the company has filed a lawsuit accusing Dish Network of intellectual property (IP) violations.

And now the guys who make digital cable set-top boxes have gotten into the game. Motorola and Scientific Atlanta both make combo receiver/recorders for cable. And they're cheap, too: Viewers can't buy them but can typically rent a box for just $6 a month. That's half the cost of TiVo's monthly service charge after you've bought a TiVo unit for $300 or so.

I've played with most of the cable combos, and while they lack TiVo's elegance and usability, they work well enough, and the picture quality is noticeably better than with standalone recorders. Let's look at the next TiVo killer.

HDTV. The next fatal problem for TiVo is high-definition TV signals. 2004 will be the year America embraces HDTV. The Super Bowl looked tremendous in HD, movies are amazing, and in May, when ESPN begins broadcasting SportsCenter in HD, the contest will be over.

With the world moving to HD, here comes TiVo — a year late — with its own HD PVR. Scheduled to ship in March, the DirecTV combination HD receiver and PVR will cost a staggering $1,000. Cable, again, is about to trump TiVo. Motorola and Scientific Atlanta are readying their own HD set-top boxes, which will again be free to use and will cost about $10 a month to rent.

A legitimate TiVo alternative, the Digeo Moxi, offers everything TiVo does and comes with the first decent PVR remote since TiVo. Expected monthly rental: around $10. You could enjoy a Moxi for eight years and still not burn through the out-of-box price for the upcoming HD TiVo.

Even so, TiVo could happily go on losing money for the next ten years, based on its lucrative agreement with DirecTV. But alas, you have to paint Rupert Murdoch as public enemy number three in this tragic tale.

Murdoch's DirecTV. The problem is that Murdoch is a rapacious cost-cutter, squeezing margins and hunting for profits at every turn. He has already moved to consolidate the fractured DirecTV set-top market — where more than 10 consumer electronics vendors build their own branded boxes — into one (presumably cheaper) look and feel. The next step will be for Murdoch to oust TiVo in favor of a lower-cost and less useful but cheaper PVR. And when that happens, you can kiss poor TiVo goodbye.

Of course, Murdoch could purchase TiVo lock, stock, and barrel — though it's doubtful. But there's one sliver of hope for the beleaguered PVR vendor, and that's software licensing. Unfortunately, the low price that TiVo's software would command won't translate into any sort of positive return on equity for shareholders. So that kind of licensing is probably not going to happen, either.


The Missed Signs of Doom

Of course, I should have seen this coming. Over the years I've observed that the more arrogant and less responsive a company gets, the more likely it's about to fail. Oddly, when the going gets tough, most companies don't do a gut check and rededicate themselves to service. Instead, they circle the wagons and go into a preventive defense — and search for someone to sue.

In the early years of TiVo, I'd get instant service. TiVo even gave me the name of a special ambassador — a strategy meant to ensure that the company got a fair hearing in the press, on the Web, and in other public forums. Today my inquiries go unanswered — or even worse, I never receive a promised response. Hold times on the help lines are interminable: It took me over half an hour last week to determine why the company had charged me $14. And I'll wager that Dish Network is not the first company or the last to be sued for IP rustling.

It's surely not the product designers' fault. They've built a great new category and an incredibly useful and usable product. But a few dumb decisions, coupled with intransigent corporate arrogance and overweening lawyers, have doomed TiVo to death.

I'll surely miss the poor guy when he's gone.
7 Replies · 5627 views
S
WHy use Tivo when you have a computer?
dfergie
Replay rules...
rad
rad
dfergie said:
Replay rules...

YES IT DOES! I had a 5504 and 5508 when I was giving cable a shot and the EPG and network connectivity plus the free DVArchive made it one really slick system. Now if E* wanted to get their PVR's working they should have purchased Replay when it was available, that would have really given D* and their Tivo partnership a run for the money.
dfergie
I bought another 5040 last month, using it with my x-1 and other than recording 5 minutes till midnight off a 501 :) have never recorded on...but the streaming ava from it to my other one with 240 gigs( and as of right now only 20 hrs space) is fantastic. I missed 2 episodes of survivor all stars, got them thru poopleii :D I hooked my 6000 up to the x1 for a couple of days last week, the pq is only slighty better than my replay( i know its only 800x600 but...) I spend more time watching stuff on it than my hdtv now... something about a 70" screen does that. plus its dark in my x1 room and the 5.1 rocks. (need shakers and 6.1 or 7.1) Cannot wait until warrenty expires on the new 5040 so I can put a bigger drive in...and with 3 pc's dvarchive helps alot too...
dfergie
The only downer with replay is you cannot go back to the start of the buffer to record a program, but, if you have 200 hours in the buffer you can record 200 hours :)
SuperDish_Fan23
Last reply · posted in DISH Network Support Forum
Why are ViP922s So rare? like its crazy how ebay has none, i checked everywhere, also, i got a ViP222k now, which is actually activated!
7 Replies · 180 views
HipKat
I think they were more of a transitional receiver bridging the VIPs to the Hopper. They were a PITA to install and were buggy. Personally, I thought at the time that they were the best receiver out there. The versatility of the VIP's with the new Hopper GUI and, by far, the coolest-looking front plate and lighting.
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AZ.
AZ.
Well if it is because of reliability that wouldnt shock me.I went through 5 or 6 of them in little over 2 years. I loved the Sling when it worked! Saved lots of money having it in the day. That was probably 15 or 16 years ago?
T
I think they were more of a transitional receiver bridging the VIPs to the Hopper. They were a PITA to install and were buggy. Personally, I thought at the time that they were the best receiver out there. The versatility of the VIP's with the new Hopper GUI and, by far, the coolest-looking front plate and lighting.
I don't recall that they came out just before hopper, but rather that they came out even before 722. Or could be thinking of 921.

As to the title pf the post, "rare" does not necessarily mean valuable or desirable.
Nominal
I don't recall that they came out just before hopper, but rather that they came out even before 722. Or could be thinking of 921.

As to the title pf the post, "rare" does not necessarily mean valuable or desirable.
You are thinking of the 921. The 922 was the first DVR with Sling functionality built in (that was eventually disabled along with the Sling Adapter for the 722s and the 1st Hopper because they relied on now-defunct Adobe Flash technology). With the bugginess described by others and the removal of its marquee feature (Sling) the 922 faded into obscurity once the Hopper 2 with built in Sling was released and they finally made the concept into a fully functional product.
dishdude
I had one, the front panel lighting was cool, the menus were fresh and a lot more modern looking than the ViPs. However, it was very buggy and the Sling functionality just didn't work well - I think it was due to internet speeds at the time. I think I had to pay $40 for the Sling app on my phone iirc.
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Scott Greczkowski
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne


Get it?


An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....
68534 Replies · 2673207 views
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ClarkGable
Take It To The Limit - The Eagles
harshness
Take It To The Limit - The Eagles
The two instances of "The" should have been highlighted.

Take
Me to the River - Talking Heads
dishstaller
Blinded By The Light - Manfred Mann's Earth Band
Bobby
I Saw The Light - Todd Rundgren
long_time_Dish
Little Bit Of Light - Strange Weather
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EatMyVolts
A Little Bit of Soap -- The Jarmels
Peter Parker
Supporting Founder Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in DISH Network Support Forum
No idea what improvements might be involved.
22 Replies · 955 views
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bookworm370
Has anyone noticed an FF stutter with 713? I used to be able to hit FF a few times and skip smoothly. After 713 (maybe 712), when I skip forward, there is a definite stutter for as many times as I have pressed FF.

Can anyone check on this and report back? Recorded programs and then press skip forward a few times to see if it's smooth? Normally, it just jumps to the right place after the skips.
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N
I'm getting fabulous picture on Ch. 148 4k, but zero audio with H713. This is with a recorded show (Notre Dame game). Anyone else have this? Audio is fine on every other channel.
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R
Has anyone noticed an FF stutter with 713? I used to be able to hit FF a few times and skip smoothly. After 713 (maybe 712), when I skip forward, there is a definite stutter for as many times as I have pressed FF.

Can anyone check on this and report back? Recorded programs and then press skip forward a few times to see if it's smooth? Normally, it just jumps to the right place after the skips.
My wife mentioned that her remote is acting strange this morning. She hit FF and it went to 15x FF.
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Foxbat
Wife bought me a t-shirt that has "have you tried turning it off and on again?"
Here's the one I need:
1792365258110.webp
dishstaller
Here's the one I need:
Just ordered one....that's great.
jsmit86
I'm getting fabulous picture on Ch. 148 4k, but zero audio with H713. This is with a recorded show (Notre Dame game). Anyone else have this? Audio is fine on every other channel.
It's a known issue.
For a temporary fix, go into the menu, Audio, and turn Dolby Audio "OFF". You will have PCM stereo audio.

I was able to give the tech ops team some data logs so they could diagnose the problem, and they rolled me back to H708 temporarily. It fixed that issue.

They let me know that they understand what caused the issue, and it will be fixed within a few weeks in a new update.
long_time_Dish
They let me know that they understand what caused the issue, and it will be fixed within a few weeks in a new update.
Oh, you mean "soon"? :biggrin
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Almighty1
It's a known issue.
For a temporary fix, go into the menu, Audio, and turn Dolby Audio "OFF". You will have PCM stereo audio.

I was able to give the tech ops team some data logs so they could diagnose the problem, and they rolled me back to H708 temporarily. It fixed that issue.

They let me know that they understand what caused the issue, and it will be fixed within a few weeks in a new update.
I guess they will be busy when lots of people start asking for rollbacks to H708 now that you mention that downgrades of software does exist because it will likely fix the OTA Single Tuner and the IR Remote problems in H710-H713.
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dfergie
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU!
Last reply · posted in What's Cooking?
We have a Breakfast and Dinner thread so... :)
Continuing from the Breakfast thread, found Cornbread mix so ...
Yellow Cornbread Mix
2 Hatch Green Chiles -diced
1 Egg
2/3 cup of milk
add to greased pan
Bake for 400f 20-25 minutes(From instructions)
now to put together and try... this to go with pinto beans...
5446 Replies · 335520 views
TRG
TRG
Two Chicago style hot dogs and a Fanta orange soda.
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M
Little mini pepperoni pizza, green beans, apples and chocolate milk.
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dfergie
Fanta orange soda.
Sitting in fridge cooling off, bought 1 along with 2 Mexican Cokes at La Tienda... (I keep a few cokes stashed as well as in fridge and camper fridge)
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M
Garlic cheese bread
Green beans
Apples
Chocolate Milk
Some weird noodles. ;)
(They have salad and a couple other fruits if wanted)
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TRG
TRG
Club sandwich and corn chowder. Iced tea.
dfergie
Chili dog bowl, water… (homemade chili)
dfergie
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU!
Last reply · posted in TV Shows
Stargate SG-1 cancelled, Atlantis renewed
clear.gif

Monday - August 21, 2006 | by Darren Sumner
clear.gif

The future of Stargate is in question today, as SCI FI Channel has cancelled the long-running Stargate SG-1, Multichannel News reported today and a GateWorld source has confirmed. The news regrettably follows the airing of the show's milestone two-hundredth episode on Friday.

Stargate Atlantis, meanwhile, has been renewed for a fourth season, with the network hoping to see that the spin-off series can stand alone, according to a source.
Source Gateworld
2032 Replies · 184001 views
dfergie
The Tokra pt 1, I know pt 2 will be next...
(came across on Pluto tv live, went to media server for "clean" version)
R
I have gotten back into watching SG-1 and I have recorded most of the episodes to binge watch. What episodes are about the Antarctic or was this a movie? Also where could I watch the SG-1 movies?
osu1991
long_time_Dish
I have gotten back into watching SG-1 and I have recorded most of the episodes to binge watch. What episodes are about the Antarctic or was this a movie? Also where could I watch the SG-1 movies?
Well, there are a couple involving the Antarctic. "Solitudes", S1 E17 (one of my favorites), Then, "Lost City', S7 E21 and E22. Then, in the SGA pilot, "Rising", S1 E1 and E2, it starts out in the Antarctic for about the first 20 minutes or so.
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R
Well, there are a couple involving the Antarctic. "Solitudes", S1 E17 (one of my favorites), Then, "Lost City', S7 E21 and E22. Then, in the SGA pilot, "Rising", S1 E1 and E2, it starts out in the Antarctic for about the first 20 minutes or so.
Which one has O'Neil being Ancients? I am at the end of Season 8 now.
Bobby
Supporting Founder Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in DISH Network Support Forum
This is a thread that will keep you apprised of 4K events that will be showing on Dish channel 540. Keep looking here for information.

As of today, 9-27-17, there are no scheduled events posted for the next 2 weeks. That is subject to change on a daily basis.
762 Replies · 167236 views
Bobby
MLB, Brewers at Dodgers, Thursday 10-15, 6PM PDT, Channel 148-02.
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Bobby
CFB, Notre Dame at BYU, Saturday 10-27, 4:30PM PDT, Channel 148-03.
Bobby
NASCAR, Freeway Insurance 500, Sunday 10-18, 12PM PDT, Channel 148-04.
Bobby
CFB, Ohio State at Indiana, Saturday 10-17, 9AM PDT, Channel 148-01.
CFB, Arizona State at Texas Tech, Saturday 10-17, 12:30PM PDT, Channel 148-01.
Bobby
CFB, Ole Miss at Texas, Saturday 10-24, 4:30PM PDT, Channel 148-03.
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Ramy
Supporting Founder
Last reply · posted in The Sports Section
Really excited for this season with Kentucky having a new coach and some really exciting recruits. Probably won't last long, but here's hoping this season is great.
151 Replies · 1873 views
  • Haha
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R
A lot of upsets yesterday, but my LSU Tigers won.
Foxbat
Best fan sign I saw during the ND-BYU game: "Bear ate your Lucky Charms!" (Bear being the Cougars' QB). I was going to suggest, "Have you or your team been involved in a Carr crash?"
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M


They get cruel sometimes, very very cruel.😈. Hated to see my dawgs go down but I still say being ranked #1 is a hex on you!
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Jimbo
They get cruel sometimes, very very cruel.😈. Hated to see my dawgs go down but I still say being ranked #1 is a hex on you!
Yup, I agree, I'd rather be 2 or 3 till the last few weeks.