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riffjim4069

Supporting Founder

Last reply Nov 5, 2006 · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

Tired of Waiting: My Quest for Significantly Viewed

I recently composed an email asking Dish Network to provide me, and area residents, with SV channels. I hope to hear from them shortly:

I am a Dish Network customer and I have a question, actually a request, regarding Significantly Viewed (SV) channels. First, I live 53 miles from Richmond VA, and 55 miles from Washington DC; I live in Spotsylvania County, but I have a Fredericksburg City mailing address. I am technically in the Washington DC DMA and receive their locals via Dish Network. Adelphia (aka Comcast), Cox, and now Verizon FiOS (recently awarded a Cable TV franchise in the County), provide area residents both the Washington DC and Richmond VA locals, whereas Dish Network does not. According to the FCCs SV channel map (which is based on zipcode) there are a number of Richmond locals that I am eligible to receive since they have been designated as "Significantly Viewed" in my area (again, based on zipcode...not DMA).

I noticed the Richmond locals were recently been moved over the 110 satellite location (from the 105 satellite I believe). Technically, I should now be able to receive these significant by simply adding them to my account. According to FCC-05-187, Appendix C, Significantly Viewed List (see attached), and the FCC Information Sheet on Television Broadcast Channels on Satellite, May 2006, "satellite subscribers who receive local-into-local service may, under certain circumstances, receive individual stations from markets outside their DMA that are deemed "significantly viewed" in their community. It is up to the satellite carrier whether or not to offer significantly viewed stations and a subscriber must be subscribing to local-into-local service in his or her DMA to be eligible to receive significantly viewed stations."

Simply stated, the FCC has authorized Dish Network to provide customers (me) with SV. According to FCC-05-187, Dish Network is authorized to provide me with two (2) Richmond area locals (see the below taken from page #471): WTVR-TV (channel 9386), and WRLH-DT (channel 9388).

Spotsylvania & Fredericksburg City

WRC-TV, 4, Washington, DC
WTTG, 5, Washington, DC
WJLA-TV, 7, Washington, DC (formerly WMAL)
WUSA, 9, Washington, DC (formerly WTOP)
WTVR-TV, 6, Richmond, VA
+WRLH-TV, 35, Richmond, VA

I see no technical limitation why these SV channels cannot be added to my account now that they have been placed on the 110 satellite. Please enable them as soon as possible. In fact, I am further requesting that Dish Network enable these channels, WTVR-TV and WRLH-DT, for all customers in Spotsylvania County and Fredericksburg City as per FCC-05-187, page #471. Here are the zipcodes for all affected customers: 22401, 22402, 22403, 22404, 22405, 22406, 22407, 22408, 22412, 22553

Please reply when my request has been completed.

riffjim4069

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jrbdmb

Nov 3, 2006

Significantly Viewed is covered by the same statute that Distant Network signals are covered by, but isn't in a different section? (In fact, all satellite transmission of OTA stations, including local-into-local, is covered by SHVERA.)

And is there any evidence that Dish is illegally providing SV stations?

Not to be argumentative, but it isn't clear to me that SV stations will be yanked on December 01. Has anything been published to show this, or has anyone lost SV channels yet?

ThomasRz

Nov 3, 2006

non-local SV = DNS. Period. Full stop. Whether or not these DNS stations are offered by E* doesn't change their status. For your community there are locals and there are distants. SV can be local. SV can be distant. A station can even be both.

jrbdmb said:
Significantly Viewed is covered by the same statute that Distant Network signals are covered by, but isn't in a different section? (In fact, all satellite transmission of OTA stations, including local-into-local, is covered by SHVERA.)

And is there any evidence that Dish is illegally providing SV stations?

Not to be argumentative, but it isn't clear to me that SV stations will be yanked on December 01. Has anything been published to show this, or has anyone lost SV channels yet?

ThomasRz

Nov 3, 2006

ThomasRz said:
non-local SV = DNS. Period. Full stop. Whether or not these DNS stations are offered by E* doesn't change their status. For your community there are locals and there are distants. SV can be local. SV can be distant. A station can even be both.

I did not phrase this as elegantly as I should have. What I wanted to convey that any Significantly Viewed station that is NOT also a DMA local station is, by definition, a distant station. (A station is either local or distant (i.e. non-local)). SV is merely an additional qualifier. I did not mean to suggest that all DNS are Significantly Viewed. Sorry.

PhilipPeake

Nov 3, 2006

This seems like a perfect opportunity to rally support to fix the underlying problem. There should ne NO restrictions on viewing any channel you want to if it is broadcast *anywhere* ITC.

The artificial market divisions has had its day. Let competition happen. If my locals suck so baddly that I prefer to what someone elses in preference, well, thats the free market in operation -- they will shape up or go under.

The FCC needs to get out of the business of protecting local area monopolies.

Former member 501

Nov 3, 2006

ThomasRz said:
I did not phrase this as elegantly as I should have. What I wanted to convey that any Significantly Viewed station that is NOT also a DMA local station is, by definition, a distant station. (A station is either local or distant (i.e. non-local)). SV is merely an additional qualifier. I did not mean to suggest that all DNS are Significantly Viewed. Sorry.

This is not what the Fcc says. They defined significantly viewed locals as essentially to be treated as locals even if not in the DMA. But who knows what will happen? Not me am not a lawyer or a Judge.

kpc007

Nov 4, 2006

PhilipPeake said:
This seems like a perfect opportunity to rally support to fix the underlying problem. There should ne NO restrictions on viewing any channel you want to if it is broadcast *anywhere* ITC.

The artificial market divisions has had its day. Let competition happen. If my locals suck so baddly that I prefer to what someone elses in preference, well, thats the free market in operation -- they will shape up or go under.

The FCC needs to get out of the business of protecting local area monopolies.

Totally agree! If, technically speaking, the customer is within a given spot beam I see no reason why we can't pick a local of our choice from all those within the spot beam. It's no sweat for Dish since all they need to do is assign the receiver code that aligns with the selected local.

All this DMA stuff has been legislated to protect TV station revenues, regardless whether or not they provide local info and ads to your particular location. I live 120 miles and two mountain chains from my assigned locals and have yet to hear anything regarding news from my locality. Hell, when they show the weather map my area of the DMA is not even on the screen. Now is that part of the deal made by the stations and FCC? According to the guidelines, they will get to count me into their totals for advertising revenue and I get local coverage. Could you imagine if they (Congress) mandated that if you live in the south you can only buy a Ford F-150 for your mode of personal transportation? Is that free market economics? No.....it's socialism!!

When I'm assigned to the stations DMA and they get credit for my viewing I just think they should provide what they're required to, period! Sorry for the rant.......just couldn't help myself. This whole thing is so out of wack its pitiful.

Here's a retorical question> Is there a way the little guy can force the local stations to provide what we're paying for? I know we have local news here since the stations in the next town (another DMA) cover my town with weather and local business advertising. However, I'm not authorized to view those stations. Please don't say...contact your local congressman! Yeah, that's like putting the fox in the hen house. Be real......

Tower Guy

Nov 4, 2006

PhilipPeake said:
The FCC needs to get out of the business of protecting local area monopolies.

The FCC is not the main government division for intellectual property protection. The programming on local stations is protected by Copyright law. The taking of intellectual property without permission and proper compensation should not be legal. The FCC works hard to insure that local monopolies do not exist, that's why the media cross ownership rules are still in force.

Pepper

Nov 4, 2006

kpc007 said:
Could you imagine if they (Congress) mandated that if you live in the south you can only buy a Ford F-150 for your mode of personal transportation?

Actually it's not congress it's the content owners who come up with agreements that their content is "exclusively" available from one station in a given DMA.

I like your analogy though, it would be more accurate to say if you want a Ford F-150 you are required to buy it from the local Ford dealer, because it is illegal for a dealer farther away to sell it to you.

ThomasRz

Nov 4, 2006

I am not sure why you think this. The FCC listing does not make a distinction among SV stations. I am not sure what metrics are used to place a station on the list but SV is not the same in the DBS context whatever the situation in cable. If what you said were true then SV would be covered under 122 license and be part of LIL packages. Congress specifically excluded DMA locals as SV for the purpose of DBS. As far as I can tell (practically speaking) SV(cable) = SV(DBS) + DMA_local because the law says that SV(DBS) = SV(cable) - DMA_local. It doesn't have to make sense. It's the law.

tnsprin said:
This is not what the Fcc says. They defined significantly viewed locals as essentially to be treated as locals even if not in the DMA. But who knows what will happen? Not me am not a lawyer or a Judge.

ThomasRz

Nov 4, 2006

I think your analogy fails. You have a choice of what vehicle to buy. Perhaps what is available is exactly what you want, perhaps not. What you desire is the ability to force Ford to sell you what you want even if they don't want to sell to you. If you pay someone to hotwire the Ford of your choice and deliver it to you, does it become right simply if you pay the hotwirer and give him a bag of cash to give to Ford? No, it is still theft. Theft is the taking of property without authorization with the intent to permanently deprive the lawful owner of it. There is no exception because you hire a thief to do the work for you. There is no exception because you leave money or something else of value in exchange for the property. A DBS company typically does not own the material. It is only the delivery boy.

kpc007

Nov 5, 2006

ThomasRz said:
I think your analogy fails. You have a choice of what vehicle to buy. Perhaps what is available is exactly what you want, perhaps not. What you desire is the ability to force Ford to sell you what you want even if they don't want to sell to you. If you pay someone to hotwire the Ford of your choice and deliver it to you, does it become right simply if you pay the hotwirer and give him a bag of cash to give to Ford? No, it is still theft. Theft is the taking of property without authorization with the intent to permanently deprive the lawful owner of it. There is no exception because you hire a thief to do the work for you. There is no exception because you leave money or something else of value in exchange for the property. A DBS company typically does not own the material. It is only the delivery boy.

I'm sorry but you're flat wrong on this one! Cable can and will provide you SV programming automatically when Dish cannot legally provide the same content while in the exact same service location as the cable company. My point here is that there is no fairness in this market. Why should I be at a disadvantage just because I get my service over satellite vs. cable. That smacks of favoritism and is not consistent with free market economics. I should be offered the same opportunity as anyone else under the same circumstance.

Here is what I'm talking about> My friend lives 8 miles from me in the Altoona DMA. Not only does he get his locals from Altoona but he also gets Washington DC locals from my DMA. Yet, I can only get whats in my DMA (Washington DC) which is 120 miles from me. The DC stations have yet to cover my area (weather, news, ads) but the Altoona stations routinely provide that info for my town. And the kicker here is that if my friend went to Dish from cable, he would'nt be authorized those additional locals. In my case, I have no access to cable, as yet, but if the situation stays the same regarding access to local news I will leave when cable comes available.

Your comment shows how little you understand my point. The point is that my locals are taking credit for me and receiving $ from advertisers when they don't support that in any way. So I guess you could say that the stations are stealing from not only me (I pay for the locals) but from advertisers also!! They DO NOT provide the service as intended. I am forced into this situation by virtue of my location and status. Thats not the intended philosophy of this country, IMO.

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dishstaller

Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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Now after reading this story I walked away thinking that this is being blown out of proportion because of the incredibly low numbers of those affected.....BUT....I've read posts by some of you who are taking this drug so I figured it was worth posting.

FDA issues new warning for Ozempic saying it can cause blindness

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dfergie

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU!

Last reply 33 minutes ago · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Gas Price Info With National Gas Temperature Map

Stumbled across this ... http://www.gaspricewatch.com/USGas_ZipSearch.asp
I found no local prices, although it did show stations at my location...
Added these to this post...
USA National Gas Temperature Map
State By State Gasoline Taxes
Gas Buddy

Ethanol Free Stations

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osu1991

Saturday at 11:49 AM

$3.55

reubenray

Saturday at 12:47 PM

$3.45 in Jane, MO.

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Yesterday at 11:04 AM

Regular$5.299
Premium$5.859
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at Costco, Rohnert Park.

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Finally! Some big movement in California diesel pricing (and no, there is no such beastie as a diesel "winter formula").

Crude (combined pricing) is around $90/barrel now, so prices should have, at least, fallen in step with the crude futures.

dishstaller

33 minutes ago

harshness said:
Finally! Some big movement in California diesel pricing (and no, there is no such beastie as a diesel "winter formula").

Just curious here.....then why is diesel so much higher out there than it is elsewhere. Bobby just posted $7.59/gal, locally it is $5.59.....that's two bucks difference. :eeek

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Scott Greczkowski

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge

Last reply 46 minutes ago · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Song Name Game Part 3!

Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne

Get it?

An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....

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KAB

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ewindowman

Lifetime Supporter

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slow_poke_pete

Yesterday at 6:38 PM

https://www.phonearena.com/news/att-reshoring-customer-care_id184650

Meanwhile att is getting rid of overseas call centers

Reactions: Almighty1, Bobby, HipKat and 1 other person

comfortably_numb

Yesterday at 6:52 PM

slow_poke_pete said:
https://www.phonearena.com/news/att-reshoring-customer-care_id184650

Meanwhile att is getting rid of overseas call centers

Too bad their service is expensive and their coverage sucks compared to the other two of the Big 3

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Juan

Yesterday at 9:50 PM

comfortably_numb said:
Too bad their service is expensive and their coverage sucks compared to the other two of the Big 3

Was that a back door compliment for Verizon?

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dishstaller

Yesterday at 10:00 PM

slow_poke_pete said:
Meanwhile att is getting rid of overseas call centers

Too little too late.

I can actually shed some light on the corp attitude towards call centers.

2015-2017 I was on the Viasat Dealer Council. They would fly us out to CO or CA and wine and dine us. Pretty cool but I was there to give my input because I was a top retailer and I wanted things to improve.
Anyway, at one of the meetings I brought up the fact that customers constantly complained about the overseas call centers. The VP of the company told me that I just didn't understand....those people cost something like 25% of what US employees would cost. Well, as usual when I went out to these meetings, I was loaded for bear....ie facts. I gave them an example of a customer who spent over an hour with one of these call centers and still never got her issue resolved. She called me the next morning after we opened and I had her situation fixed in 2 minutes. I told him "So you guys paid this overseas call center X amount but the customer still wasn't taken care of. I on the other hand, and a US call center probably would have as well because there wouldn't have been the language barrier, had her taken care of in 2 min. so your savings just went right out the door because a US call center would have taken care of her and MANY other customers while your overseas call center did nothing more than PISS off a customer.
Blank stares was all I got.

And THAT was when I realized just how incompetent most of the people are who run these companies. It WAS an enlightening experience.

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Almighty1

Today at 5:30 AM

Even 23 years ago, Verizon was known for having quality customer service. T-Mobile had quality customer service too but just poor mobile service. AT&T when it was still known as AT&T Wireless, Cingular Wireless both had poor customer service. This was when all three were providing customer service from the U.S. so even in the U.S., some companies are still better than others as it still depends on who they hire. That's the same reason AT&T Broadband Inc. which was basically their Cable TV never gotten far and got sold to Comcast.

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Ramy

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osu1991

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osu1991

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Yesterday at 9:56 PM

I like the move to campus sites for the early games. That adds a fun new dimension for fans, and cuts down on some of the travel expenses that would come with having to follow a team all the way through the playoffs at neutral sites.

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cp2k said:
I like the move to campus sites for the early games. That adds a fun new dimension for fans, and cuts down on some of the travel expenses that would come with having to follow a team all the way through the playoffs at neutral sites.

Agree ... they started doing that a few years ago.

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Bruce

Supporting Founder Lifetime Supporter

Last reply Yesterday at 10:48 PM · posted in Internet Television (IPTV) Discussion Forum

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reubenray

Yesterday at 1:09 PM

In my area Cox (now Spectrum) has run everything underground instead of on poles.

Jimbo

Yesterday at 5:19 PM

reubenray said:
In my area Cox (now Spectrum) has run everything underground instead of on poles.

Thats good, the neighborhood generally look better with buried plant ... until someone puts a shovel into the line planting the Spring Garden.

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Bobby

Yesterday at 6:25 PM

Jimbo said:
Thats good, the neighborhood generally look better with buried plant ... until someone puts a shovel into the line planting the Spring Garden.

In my local area all underground utilities are under the sidewalk. Of course from there, when entering your property, They are at least 18" in your dirt.

Jimbo

Yesterday at 7:25 PM

Bobby said:
In my local area all underground utilities are under the sidewalk. Of course from there, when entering your property, They are at least 18" in your dirt.

I bet MOST of them are NOT 18", they may suppose to be, but I doubt they are .

Edison is definitely deep enough, but thats the only one ...

brice52

Yesterday at 7:39 PM

Jimbo said:
Thats good, the neighborhood generally look better with buried plant ... until someone puts a shovel into the line planting the Spring Garden.

My fiber isp put everything in conduit, except for the drop line to the NID and it it buried 10 inches

reubenray

Yesterday at 7:41 PM

Jimbo said:
Thats good, the neighborhood generally look better with buried plant ... until someone puts a shovel into the line planting the Spring Garden.

My area is very rocky, so there will be no shovels into the lines. Most of the lines were bored and the one's not bored where dug at least 18" deep. Cox had flagged my yard for them to dig up. But the foreman of the crew said he was not going to tear up my grass. He ended up installing the cable across the street at a vacant lot instead and bored the street for my pedestal. The line from the pedestal to my house could be damaged being it is fairly shallow.

Jimbo

Yesterday at 7:42 PM

brice52 said:
My fiber isp put everything in conduit, except for the drop line to the NID and it it buried 10 inches

Really, you Lucky Dog !

Do you Work for that ISP ? :biggrin

Bobby

Yesterday at 8:49 PM

Jimbo said:
I bet MOST of them are NOT 18", they may suppose to be, but I doubt they are .

Edison is definitely deep enough, but thats the only one ...

I did the underground trench utility designs for 9 years. Gas and electric were 24". Telephone and CATV were 18". These were for new construction. Add on construction could be anywhere. All of the utilities went from their terminal points to a common utility point on the house. They were in a single trench.

Jimbo said:
So, if theres a issue with any buried line, the sidewalk needs to be dug up as well ???
That sucks.

Sometimes…. electric and CATV are in conduit so replacement is pretty easy. Telephone, specifically Pacific Telephone, Pacific Bell, SBC, ATT are direct buried and use encap termination directly onto the feed cable. That is always a sidewalk digup.

Jimbo

Yesterday at 10:20 PM

Bobby said:
I did the underground trench utility designs for 9 years. Gas and electric were 24". Telephone and CATV were 18". These were for new construction. Add on construction could be anywhere. All of the utilities went from their terminal points to a common utility point on the house. They were in a single trench.

Sometimes…. electric and CATV are in conduit so replacement is pretty easy. Telephone, specifically Pacific Telephone, Pacific Bell, SBC, ATT are direct buried and use encap termination directly onto the feed cable. That is always a sidewalk digup.

Ok, your talking in the right of way ...
I thought you were talking about from the ped to the houses.

Fortunately you don't usually get Cable cuts Under a sidewalk, usually its when a Construction crew us digging with major equipment.

The drops to the house are not going to be very deep, sometimes barely under the sod. 6" is a godsend.

osu1991

Yesterday at 10:48 PM

I'm fortunate to have 3 fiber providers now.

Cox and T mobile bored and put conduit in before pulling the fiber thru the easement in my neighborhood . Windstream Kinetic I can't remember if they pulled conduit first or not. I remember they didn't have a boring machine when they came thru my yard, they used that for the mainline crossing under the street but had a vibratory plow in my backyard. I remember seeing some blue conduit just don't remember where it was being used. Windstream barely put the fiber run from the pedestal to my house about 2 inches underground. Landscaper hit it while putting landscaping around the pedestal they added to my yard. I made sure they buried it at least 12 inches when they replaced it.

AEP/ PSO the electric company has their main distribution lines running on poles along the back of my property. Cox has their main distribution line hung on those poles before going underground through the neighborhood.

I'm in the middle of a damage claim and about to take them to court as insurance is trying to get out of it claiming the lines were too low. Had an oversized load get lost and try to turn around in an older neighborhood. Pulled down 5 blocks of fiber with separate fiber lines belonging to the city, Cox/Spectrum and ATT.

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