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Drone35

Last reply Jan 31, 2007 · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

HD Net Awsome tonight!

HD Net is awsome tonight, watched Smallville and it was excellent, everything was so detailed as was Discovery HD! This is the way HD should be! Can anyone check resolution and bitrate!

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Tom Bombadil

Jan 16, 2007

JimK2 said:
\
DISH HD channels with nine 1940x1080i (RUSH,
HDNET, HDNMV, TNTHD, HBOHD, HDPPV, DSCHD, ESPHD,
SHOHD). All the other HD channels are 1440x1080i
except the VOOM channels 1280x1080i.

That is outdated information. HDNET and HDNMV were down-rezzed to 1440x1080 last August. ESPN has always been 1280x720p. RUSH is a VOOM 1280x1080 channel. I can't recall if TNTHD and/or Discovery HD have been left at 1920x1080. Wouldn't matter a whole lot for TNTHD given how much S T R E T C H - O - V I S I O N they show on it.

JimK2

Jan 17, 2007

Tom Bombadil said:
That is outdated information. HDNET and HDNMV were down-rezzed to 1440x1080 last August. ESPN has always been 1280x720p. RUSH is a VOOM 1280x1080 channel. I can't recall if TNTHD and/or Discovery HD have been left at 1920x1080. Wouldn't matter a whole lot for TNTHD given how much S T R E T C H - O - V I S I O N they show on it.

Is there an better channel Bitrate chart URL available? The page does say Bitrates last updated on 11/24/06
http://www.satelliteguys.us/bfg/dish-hd.htm

Did I say RUSH, guess I did, I should of caught that.

I was just pointing out TP7 E*8 AMC(?) running 12-13mbps mentioned in earlier thread. Wasn't that for the RUSH preview on 287 awhile back (Everybody was complaining at the time, how HDNMV PQ degraded when HDNMV, HDNET, AMC (RUSH) sharing T7 E*8),.

This claims to be up to date. DISH Transponder Load Chart
http://ekb.dbstalk.com/dishlist.htm

If
1920x1080i30 = 19.2Mbps
then
1440x1080i30 = 14.4Mbps

1440x1080i30 at 14.4Mbps TS probably looks better than 1920x1080i30 at 14.4Mbps TS. Probably makes more sense to down res using bilinear or bicubic or drop every fifth pixel or something like that than transcoding each frame. Heck, what do I know.

Mark Jackson said mpeg4 is 11% more efficient (now) then mpeg2 and maybe up to 50% (future) if they could pre-process, hopefully they can add more hd content
with decent PQ and not degrade what we got..

Not complaining, if I were, fast motion pans on HGTV are blurry. I've watch a few good movies (non-streached) on TNTHD, Gone with the Wind, Wizard of Oz. I switched by TNTHD tonight and wow, S T R E T C H - O - V I S I O N made the women look real fat and busty, pretty funny. I was watching EQUTR 'Under Water Odyssey' earlier and it looked great. Been pretty happy with DishHD PQ on my
LCOS 60 inch SXRD. Maybe I better not get BluRay, might wreck my little fantasy
on Dish HD PQ. I've seen DTV HD on my sisters 720p Pioneer Elite plasma and
I'll take DISH.

Bottom line
2 HD channels per TP = Great
2 HD and 1 SD channels per TP = Good
3 HD channels per TP = DTV, VOOM 1280x1080 HD Lite
4 HD channels per TP = MPEG4 Locals 1280x1080 HD Lite
:hatsoff

Scott Greczkowski

Jan 17, 2007

Yup having a good time with it, Tsreader does some increadable graphs on this stuff.

I can't see anything but colorbars for the channels but the data I get is worth it to me.

HDTVFanAtic

Jan 18, 2007

JimK2 said:
Bottom line
2 HD channels per TP = Great
2 HD and 1 SD channels per TP = Good
3 HD channels per TP = DTV, VOOM 1280x1080 HD Lite
4 HD channels per TP = MPEG4 Locals 1280x1080 HD Lite
:

Interesting Bottom line - can you give us one example - just 1 example - of a service with 2 HD and 1 SD Channel on a TP that you can claim is good?

HDTVFanAtic

Jan 18, 2007

Scott Greczkowski said:
Yup having a good time with it, Tsreader does some increadable graphs on this stuff.

I can't see anything but colorbars for the channels but the data I get is worth it to me.

Unfortunately his calculations on the bitrate are not very accurate - as shown on AVSFORUM where its reporting OTA ATSC NBC shows in Phoenix at 26Mbps - even though the NBC Affiliate has a SD Multicast and their HD Channel is set to a max of 15.00Mbps.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9392433&&#post9392433

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9368127&&#post9368127

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9381905&&#post9381905

HDNET is sent out at a constant 17.57 Mbps Video on 127W. Add in the 384k of audio and other mux info - it was set at this bitrate to allow for HDNET and HDNET Movies to just squeeze in 1 38.81Mbps Cable 256 QAM.

The readings TSREADER gives you are on the high side from what this shows.

JimK2

Jan 19, 2007

HDTVFanAtic said:
Interesting Bottom line - can you give us one example - just 1 example - of a service with 2 HD and 1 SD Channel on a TP that you can claim is good?

American Movie Classics AMC 287 7 110° E*8
HD Net (8PSK) HDNET 9422 7 110° E*8
HD Net Movies (8PSK) HDNMV 9423 7 110° E*8

HDNET TS sample (Dead Like Me)
Resolution = 1920 x 1080i
FPS = 29.97
Apect Ratio = 16:9
Avg TS Rate = 14.62 Mb/s
Stream Type = MPEG-2 MP@HL VBR
Nom bitrate = 14200000 Bit/sec
Peak = 17555000 Bit/sec
Average = 16422000 Bit/sec
Chroma format = 4:2:0
http://img263.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hdnetil5.jpg
http://img248.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hdnet2iz9.jpg

JimK2

Jan 19, 2007

HDTVFanAtic said:
Unfortunately his calculations on the bitrate are not very accurate - as shown on AVSFORUM where its reporting OTA ATSC NBC shows in Phoenix at 26Mbps - even though the NBC Affiliate has a SD Multicast and their HD Channel is set to a max of 15.00Mbps.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9392433&&#post9392433

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9368127&&#post9368127

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9381905&&#post9381905

HDNET is sent out at a constant 17.57 Mbps Video on 127W. Add in the 384k of audio and other mux info - it was set at this bitrate to allow for HDNET and HDNET Movies to just squeeze in 1 38.81Mbps Cable 256 QAM.

The readings TSREADER gives you are on the high side from what this shows.

VBR video sample rate will be all over the place but a terrestrial (over-the-air) transmission carries 19.39 megabits of data per second. Terrestrial (local) broadcasters use 8-VSB modulation that can transfer at a maximum rate of 19.39 Mbit/s, sufficient to carry several video and audio programs and metadata. Cable television plants generally operate at a higher signal-to-noise ratio and can use 16-VSB or 256-QAM to achieve a throughput of 38.78 Mbit/s, using the same 6 MHz channel.

digiblur

Jan 19, 2007

JimK2 said:
American Movie Classics AMC 287 7 110° E*8
HD Net (8PSK) HDNET 9422 7 110° E*8
HD Net Movies (8PSK) HDNMV 9423 7 110° E*8

HDNET TS sample (Dead Like Me)
Resolution = 1920 x 1080i
FPS = 29.97
Apect Ratio = 16:9
Avg TS Rate = 14.62 Mb/s
Stream Type = MPEG-2 MP@HL VBR
Nom bitrate = 14200000 Bit/sec
Peak = 17555000 Bit/sec
Average = 16422000 Bit/sec
Chroma format = 4:2:0
http://img263.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hdnetil5.jpg
http://img248.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hdnet2iz9.jpg

Negative... that's three HD streams.

JimK2

Jan 19, 2007

digiblur said:
Negative... that's three HD streams.

Your probably right. Would you believe 2 HD streams. Channel 287 HD preview is gone for now.

Last Update: 2:22 AM 1/18/07
??? American Movie Classics AMC 287 7 110° E*8
http://www.dishchannelchart.com/

If HDNET TS is 14.62Mbps and if HDNMV is about the same, theirs plenty of room for SD on that transponder 38Mbps bandwidth. With 3 HD channels the average of the 3 would be 12.6 Mbps.

???AMC 287 TP7 E*8 (not or is) the same as AMC 130 TP8 119° E*7???

HDTVFanAtic

Jan 20, 2007

JimK2 said:
VBR video sample rate will be all over the place but a terrestrial (over-the-air) transmission carries 19.39 megabits of data per second. Terrestrial (local) broadcasters use 8-VSB modulation that can transfer at a maximum rate of 19.39 Mbit/s, sufficient to carry several video and audio programs and metadata. Cable television plants generally operate at a higher signal-to-noise ratio and can use 16-VSB or 256-QAM to achieve a throughput of 38.78 Mbit/s, using the same 6 MHz channel.

And yet with all these figures you still fail to realize that 26 Mbps that TSReader is reporting for NBC OTA is higher than the 19.39Mbps that ATSC is capable of or the 15.00Mbps the station is transmitting.

HDTVFanAtic

Jan 20, 2007

JimK2 said:
Your probably right. Would you believe 2 HD streams. Channel 287 HD preview is gone for now.

Last Update: 2:22 AM 1/18/07
??? American Movie Classics AMC 287 7 110° E*8
http://www.dishchannelchart.com/

If HDNET TS is 14.62Mbps and if HDNMV is about the same, theirs plenty of room for SD on that transponder 38Mbps bandwidth. With 3 HD channels the average of the 3 would be 12.6 Mbps.

It could be, but again, SD IRDs do not have 8PSK capability, so Dish has not ever or will not ever (nor can they) mix 2 HD 8PSK signals and a SD QPSK signal on a transponder - thus your Good, Better, Best Chart has what has never been done and isn't possible with about 12 Million SD IRDs in service.

BuddyBoy

Jan 20, 2007

HDTVFanAtic said:
And yet with all these figures you still fail to realize that 26 Mbps that TSReader is reporting for NBC OTA is higher than the 19.39Mbps that ATSC is capable of or the 15.00Mbps the station is transmitting.

My local NBC station is sending out some of the prime time dramas at some of the highest bitrates I've ever seen. Tonight "Las Vegas" was hair above 17.0 Mbits/sec, resulting in a file over 8,000,000,000 bytes (63 minutes recorded).

HDTVFanAtic

Jan 21, 2007

BuddyBoy said:
My local NBC station is sending out some of the prime time dramas at some of the highest bitrates I've ever seen. Tonight "Las Vegas" was hair above 17.0 Mbits/sec, resulting in a file over 8,000,000,000 bytes (63 minutes recorded).

Yes, but that still is not 26Mps from OTA ATSC that TSReader is showing in the links above.

JimK2

Jan 26, 2007

HDTVFanAtic said:
It could be, but again, SD IRDs do not have 8PSK capability, so Dish has not ever or will not ever (nor can they) mix 2 HD 8PSK signals and a SD QPSK signal on a transponder - thus your Good, Better, Best Chart has what has never been done and isn't possible with about 12 Million SD IRDs in service.

Tandberg EN8000 Encoder
http://www.iptv-industry.com/ar/7n.htm

Looks like dish has 6 hd on one tp, rummor is Tandberg EN8000
9425 - ESPN2 HD
9426 - NFL HD
9429 - National Geographic HD
9435 - StarzHD
9461 - HGTV HD
9462 - Food HD

Unique combination for HD and SD MPEG-4 AVC single and multi-channel encoding and transcoding
DVB-S2 and QPSK – can fit more than 6 channels of full-resolution HD
DVB-S2 and 8PSK – can fit more than 8 channels of full-resolution HD

JimK2

Jan 26, 2007

HDTVFanAtic said:
Yes, but that still is not 26Mps from OTA ATSC that TSReader is showing in the links above.

Close Encounters 1440x1080 at 12.58 Mbps (Calculated multiplex rate: 12988529 bps) has a peak bitrate of 22.8Mbps. A 26Mbps VBR biterate would indeed be nice.

0x0000 (0.08% ~ 0.01 Mbps)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
0x0000 MPEG-2 Program Assocation Table
0x0010 (0.04% ~ 0.01 Mbps)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
0x0010 MPEG-2 PMT for program 1
0x0011 (96.76% - 12.58 Mbps)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
0x0011 MPEG-2 Video for program 1
0x0014 (3.12% ~ 0.41 Mbps)

Smith P.

Jan 26, 2007

It max limit; BTW you quoted DVB-S2 from Tandberg - Dish doesn't have support of it. Only DirecTV use DVB-S2 in latest H20 and HR20 ( not sure about D12).

HDTVFanAtic

Jan 27, 2007

JimK2 said:
Tandberg EN8000 Encoder
http://www.iptv-industry.com/ar/7n.htm

Looks like dish has 6 hd on one tp, rummor is Tandberg EN8000
9425 - ESPN2 HD
9426 - NFL HD
9429 - National Geographic HD
9435 - StarzHD
9461 - HGTV HD
9462 - Food HD

Unique combination for HD and SD MPEG-4 AVC single and multi-channel encoding and transcoding
DVB-S2 and QPSK – can fit more than 6 channels of full-resolution HD
DVB-S2 and 8PSK – can fit more than 8 channels of full-resolution HD

Congrats - you have just listed 6 HD Channels on a transponder - again, not a mix of SD and HD channels on the same transponder which again is what I stated so again you have yet to prove any different then what I have stated when I asked you to give us examples of where Dish has mixed SD and HD channels on the same transponder.

HDTVFanAtic

Jan 27, 2007

JimK2 said:
Close Encounters 1440x1080 at 12.58 Mbps (Calculated multiplex rate: 12988529 bps) has a peak bitrate of 22.8Mbps. A 26Mbps VBR biterate would indeed be nice.

0x0000 (0.08% ~ 0.01 Mbps)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
0x0000 MPEG-2 Program Assocation Table
0x0010 (0.04% ~ 0.01 Mbps)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
0x0010 MPEG-2 PMT for program 1
0x0011 (96.76% - 12.58 Mbps)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
0x0011 MPEG-2 Video for program 1
0x0014 (3.12% ~ 0.41 Mbps)

And you have proven again why TSREADER is faulty and gives high readings as the video is set in stone at 17.57Mbps CBR on their distribution.

Once again, this was choosen so HDNET and HDNET Movies would fit on 1 38.81 256QAM.

2 22Mbps channels will not fit.

JimK2

Jan 30, 2007

HDTVFanAtic said:
And you have proven again why TSREADER is faulty and gives high readings as the video is set in stone at 17.57Mbps CBR on their distribution.

Once again, this was choosen so HDNET and HDNET Movies would fit on 1 38.81 256QAM.

It's a little more complicated then that. Multiple MPEG-2 video streams from broadcasters are compressed at a variable bit rates (VBR) and these are multiplexed onto a single constant bit rate (CBR) stream. Statistical Multiplexing is a method of making the most efficient use of the bandwidth available for a given transponder, whilst maintaining a quality of service across all of the multiplexed channels. CBR stream with multiple MPEG VBR payload.

2 22Mbps channels will not fit.

Never said it would. The clip 'Close Encounters of the Third Kind' from hdnmv viewed from a BitRate Viewer had a VBR peak of 22Mbps (very few frames of less than .1% of total length).

Data from Scott G.

HDTVFanAtic

Jan 31, 2007

JimK2 said:
It's a little more complicated then that. Multiple MPEG-2 video streams from broadcasters are compressed at a variable bit rates (VBR) and these are multiplexed onto a single constant bit rate (CBR) stream. Statistical Multiplexing is a method of making the most efficient use of the bandwidth available for a given transponder, whilst maintaining a quality of service across all of the multiplexed channels. CBR stream with multiple MPEG VBR payload.

Never said it would. The clip 'Close Encounters of the Third Kind' from hdnmv viewed from a BitRate Viewer had a VBR peak of 22Mbps (very few frames of less than .1% of total length).

Data from Scott G.

great - however there is a hard limit on HDNET and its not even in the 20s for 1 frame as I have tried to tell you.

HDNET uses the same bitrate for every frame in distribution - regardless of what it really contains.

That is why so many titles do not look as good as they should at 17.57Mbps.

If I record a cassette on a DVD, it will have take the full DVD Bitrate - but still sound like a cassette.

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Foxbat

Supporting Founder Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter

Last reply 3 minutes ago · posted in Computers and Gadgets

Apple Appears to be Down

Hmmm, Apple iCloud appears to be missing from the Internet. Attempting to connect yields:

Plus, lots of prompts to enter my iCloud credentials.

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klang

3 minutes ago

I'm not seeing any issues.

Scott Greczkowski

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge

Last reply 4 minutes ago · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Song Name Game Part 3!

Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne

Get it?

An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....

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Bobby

Today at 10:58 AM

Come A Little Bit Closer - Jay and the Americans

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ewindowman

Lifetime Supporter

Last reply 7 minutes ago · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

Dish Bankruptcy - Business as Usual

Looks like dish is Bankrupt. Filling tomorrow Tuesday June 30th

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ERSanders

Today at 10:52 AM

The short term financial thinking by MBAs is what killed Xerox. Ask me how I know!

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navychop

Today at 11:09 AM

So you have a MBA?
:devilish

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Juan

Today at 11:35 AM

ERSanders said:
The short term financial thinking by MBAs is what killed Xerox. Ask me how I know!

I thought it was when Bill Gates stole DOS

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dishdude

Today at 11:35 AM

Juan said:
I thought it was when Bill Gates stole DOS

And Steve Jobs stole the mouse and GUI

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ERSanders

Today at 12:47 PM

ERSanders said:
The short term financial thinking by MBAs is what killed Xerox. Ask me how I know!

Actually I survived despite them for 31 years and two expait assignments. But the quest for the current quarter's profits doomed long term vision, planning and actions.

Reactions: Almighty1, MikeD-C05, charlesrshell and 1 other person

Strega

7 minutes ago

Juan said:
I thought it was when Bill Gates stole DOS

He bought that for $50,000. What he bought was originally called QDOS (Quick and Dirty Operating System) from Seattle Computer Products which was designed to be similar to CP/M - an OS for the Intel 8080. Seems like a decent investment. ;-)

There have been claims that the original developer of QDOS stole CP/M code and according to legend there is some command that you can type into MS-DOS that makes it print the name of the developer of CP/M, thus proving theft, but no one seems to know what that command actually is. ;-)

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Bruce

Supporting Founder Lifetime Supporter

Last reply 23 minutes ago · posted in Internet Television (IPTV) Discussion Forum

Traditional/Streaming Live TV Providers Losses, 3rd Quarter 2026 Edition

Comcast is the first to report, with a massive 274,000 loss in video subscribers.

In the 3Q of 2016, Comcast had 21.42 million video subscribers and was the #1 provider, now at 10.39 million and is the #3 Provider, YTTV is #2 ( who also surpassed DirecTV-8 Million and Dish-under 5 Million), Charter/Spectrum is #1.

Comcast Just Lost 274,000 TV Customers & 144,000 Internet Customers In Just Three Months | Cord Cutters News

Comcast Corporation reported its third-quarter 2026 results on October 22, showing continued erosion in its domestic residential broadband internet and video customer bases as competitive pressures intensified across the connectivity market. The company recorded a net loss of 144,000 domestic...

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reubenray

Yesterday at 1:09 PM

In my area Cox (now Spectrum) has run everything underground instead of on poles.

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Jimbo

Yesterday at 5:19 PM

reubenray said:
In my area Cox (now Spectrum) has run everything underground instead of on poles.

Thats good, the neighborhood generally look better with buried plant ... until someone puts a shovel into the line planting the Spring Garden.

Reactions: MikeD-C05 and reubenray

Bobby

Yesterday at 6:25 PM

Jimbo said:
Thats good, the neighborhood generally look better with buried plant ... until someone puts a shovel into the line planting the Spring Garden.

In my local area all underground utilities are under the sidewalk. Of course from there, when entering your property, They are at least 18" in your dirt.

Jimbo

Yesterday at 7:25 PM

Bobby said:
In my local area all underground utilities are under the sidewalk. Of course from there, when entering your property, They are at least 18" in your dirt.

I bet MOST of them are NOT 18", they may suppose to be, but I doubt they are .

Edison is definitely deep enough, but thats the only one ...

brice52

Yesterday at 7:39 PM

Jimbo said:
Thats good, the neighborhood generally look better with buried plant ... until someone puts a shovel into the line planting the Spring Garden.

My fiber isp put everything in conduit, except for the drop line to the NID and it it buried 10 inches

Reactions: Jimbo

reubenray

Yesterday at 7:41 PM

Jimbo said:
Thats good, the neighborhood generally look better with buried plant ... until someone puts a shovel into the line planting the Spring Garden.

My area is very rocky, so there will be no shovels into the lines. Most of the lines were bored and the one's not bored where dug at least 18" deep. Cox had flagged my yard for them to dig up. But the foreman of the crew said he was not going to tear up my grass. He ended up installing the cable across the street at a vacant lot instead and bored the street for my pedestal. The line from the pedestal to my house could be damaged being it is fairly shallow.

Jimbo

Yesterday at 7:42 PM

brice52 said:
My fiber isp put everything in conduit, except for the drop line to the NID and it it buried 10 inches

Really, you Lucky Dog !

Do you Work for that ISP ? :biggrin

Bobby

Yesterday at 8:49 PM

Jimbo said:
I bet MOST of them are NOT 18", they may suppose to be, but I doubt they are .

Edison is definitely deep enough, but thats the only one ...

I did the underground trench utility designs for 9 years. Gas and electric were 24". Telephone and CATV were 18". These were for new construction. Add on construction could be anywhere. All of the utilities went from their terminal points to a common utility point on the house. They were in a single trench.

Jimbo said:
So, if theres a issue with any buried line, the sidewalk needs to be dug up as well ???
That sucks.

Sometimes…. electric and CATV are in conduit so replacement is pretty easy. Telephone, specifically Pacific Telephone, Pacific Bell, SBC, ATT are direct buried and use encap termination directly onto the feed cable. That is always a sidewalk digup.

Jimbo

Yesterday at 10:20 PM

Bobby said:
I did the underground trench utility designs for 9 years. Gas and electric were 24". Telephone and CATV were 18". These were for new construction. Add on construction could be anywhere. All of the utilities went from their terminal points to a common utility point on the house. They were in a single trench.

Sometimes…. electric and CATV are in conduit so replacement is pretty easy. Telephone, specifically Pacific Telephone, Pacific Bell, SBC, ATT are direct buried and use encap termination directly onto the feed cable. That is always a sidewalk digup.

Ok, your talking in the right of way ...
I thought you were talking about from the ped to the houses.

Fortunately you don't usually get Cable cuts Under a sidewalk, usually its when a Construction crew us digging with major equipment.

The drops to the house are not going to be very deep, sometimes barely under the sod. 6" is a godsend.

osu1991

Yesterday at 10:48 PM

I'm fortunate to have 3 fiber providers now.

Cox and T mobile bored and put conduit in before pulling the fiber thru the easement in my neighborhood . Windstream Kinetic I can't remember if they pulled conduit first or not. I remember they didn't have a boring machine when they came thru my yard, they used that for the mainline crossing under the street but had a vibratory plow in my backyard. I remember seeing some blue conduit just don't remember where it was being used. Windstream barely put the fiber run from the pedestal to my house about 2 inches underground. Landscaper hit it while putting landscaping around the pedestal they added to my yard. I made sure they buried it at least 12 inches when they replaced it.

AEP/ PSO the electric company has their main distribution lines running on poles along the back of my property. Cox has their main distribution line hung on those poles before going underground through the neighborhood.

I'm in the middle of a damage claim and about to take them to court as insurance is trying to get out of it claiming the lines were too low. Had an oversized load get lost and try to turn around in an older neighborhood. Pulled down 5 blocks of fiber with separate fiber lines belonging to the city, Cox/Spectrum and ATT.

brice52

23 minutes ago

reubenray said:
My area is very rocky, so there will be no shovels into the lines. Most of the lines were bored and the one's not bored where dug at least 18" deep. Cox had flagged my yard for them to dig up. But the foreman of the crew said he was not going to tear up my grass. He ended up installing the cable across the street at a vacant lot instead and bored the street for my pedestal. The line from the pedestal to my house could be damaged being it is fairly shallow.

No, but it is a coop. I am just a member and subscriber

Jimbo said:
Really, you Lucky Dog !

Do you Work for that ISP ?

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Bruce

Supporting Founder Lifetime Supporter

Last reply Today at 6:46 PM · posted in Internet Television (IPTV) Discussion Forum

How things have changed

I was reading this article

Cable TV ‘cord-cutters’ became the majority in 2022

The steady decline of cable and broadcast television, and the rise of streaming services, reached a sort of inflection point over the past year. Last summer, for the first time, streaming ser…

thehill.com

That said this-
Last summer, for the first time, streaming services like Netflix and Amazon Prime claimed the largest share of the television viewing audience, surpassing both cable and broadcast TV. Streaming captured 34.8 percent of July viewers, according to Nielsen data, compared to 34.4 percent for cable and 21.6 percent for broadcast.

And then, sometime in the second half of 2022, cord-cutters became the majority. The share of cable and satellite television subscribers dipped to 48 percent, according to a report from Samba TV, a television technology company.

Now I do not consider those with YTTV and the likes, Cord Cutters, but they still do not have Traditional Cable/Satellite delivered Live TV, so I decided to do the math.

There are, now, 129 Million Households in the United States.

In 2015, there were 100 Million Cable/Sat Subscribers , no streaming Live TV Service.

Today, there are 66 Million Live TV subscribers, including Cable, Satellite and Streaming.

Roughly, Streaming Live TV has 14 Million subs including all of them.

So that means, Cable/Satellite now has, roughly, 51 Million Households

So in just 8 years, lost 49% of their subscribers and by the end of this year, expected sub count to be, roughly, 45 million households.

That means a total loss of 55% since 2015 at the end of 2023.

But out of 129 Million households, 45 million will mean only 35% will get Cable/Satellite Delivered Live TV by the end of 2023.

Imagine what 2024 will be like.

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Bruce

Yesterday at 5:36 AM

According to industry figures reported by Sports Media Watch, this year's World Series averaged 11.69 million viewers on FOX, down 26% from the 15.71 million average the 2025 series delivered.

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Jimbo

Yesterday at 8:00 AM

Bruce said:
According to industry figures reported by Sports Media Watch, this year's World Series averaged 11.69 million viewers on FOX, down 26% from the 15.71 million average the 2025 series delivered.

That thier own stupidity ...

They make it hard to find the game when its on FOX 1 game, then FS1, then on Tru or some other little ity biyy channel that people rerely watch and can't find. (I don't know if FOX is TRU or not, but thats what I'm saying, they put games on obscure channels and expect people to easily find it and watch.

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Bruce

Yesterday at 8:17 AM

Jimbo said:
That thier own stupidity ...

They make it hard to find the game when its on FOX 1 game, then FS1, then on Tru or some other little ity biyy channel that people rerely watch and can't find. (I don't know if FOX is TRU or not, but thats what I'm saying, they put games on obscure channels and expect people to easily find it and watch.

Every WS game was on the main Fox Broadcast Channel, what are you referring to?

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AZ.

Yesterday at 8:25 AM

Bruce said:
Every WS game was on the main Fox Broadcast Channel, what are you referring to?

Throughout the playoffs most games were not over the air. They were on FS1 or TrueTV, HBO, TBS....So without a sports package you need FS1, and the others you need a old school TV package. If I had to guess, close to 75% of playoff games were not on free local TV.

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Bruce

Yesterday at 11:08 AM

AZ. said:
Throughout the playoffs most games were not over the air. They were on FS1 or TrueTV, HBO, TBS....So without a sports package you need FS1, and the others you need an old school TV package. If I had to guess, close to 75% of playoff games were not on free local TV.

But I never posted about the playoffs, only the World Series.

And a 4 million drop in households is a big deal, specially what Fox pays for it, they are already losing money on the MLB contract, now even more, since they might have to give some of the money back to advertisers, since it might of not made certain ratings goals.

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Bobby

Yesterday at 11:20 AM

Bruce said:
But I never posted about the playoffs, only the World Series.

And a 4 million drop in households is a big deal, specially what Fox pays for it, they are already losing money on the MLB contract, now even more, since they might have to give some of the money back to advertisers, since it might of not made certain ratings goals.

Last year it was the Dodgers and Bluejays. This year is was the Brewers and the Rays, two teams that never won a World Series. Last year the Dodgers were the former year champion, can they do a repeat against a Toronto team that looked unbeatable. That World Series was a classic between two teams that really wanted it. The highlight of this year was can Milwaukee go 4-0 like they did to the Dodgers, and they just about did.

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AZ.

Yesterday at 1:09 PM

Bobby said:
Last year it was the Dodgers and Bluejays. This year is was the Brewers and the Rays, two teams that never won a World Series. Last year the Dodgers were the former year champion, can they do a repeat against a Toronto team that looked unbeatable. That World Series was a classic between two teams that really wanted it. The highlight of this year was can Milwaukee go 4-0 like they did to the Dodgers, and they just about did.

Yep ratings have lots to do with what teams are playing. Large market over smaller. Underdog teams people want to root for. But If you make it hard to watch all the playoffs, you will get less interest for the World Series.

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TRG

Yesterday at 2:01 PM

Bruce said:
According to industry figures reported by Sports Media Watch, this year's World Series averaged 11.69 million viewers on FOX, down 26% from the 15.71 million average the 2025 series delivered.

People are tired of watching the World Series without the Yankees. :devilish

Bruce

Yesterday at 2:14 PM

AZ. said:
Yep ratings have lots to do with what teams are playing. Large market over smaller. Underdog teams people want to root for. But If you make it hard to watch all the playoffs, you will get less interest for the World Series.

Except last year, the playoffs were aired on the same channels as this year.

Jimbo

Yesterday at 5:12 PM

TRG said:
People are tired of watching the World Series without the Yankees.

Not Me, I rather enjoy it ...

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Jimbo

Yesterday at 5:13 PM

Bruce said:
Except last year, the playoffs were aired on the same channels as this year.

Quick Question, WITHOUT Looking it up ...
Who played in the World Series last year ?

Jimbo

Yesterday at 5:14 PM

Bruce said:
Except last year, the playoffs were aired on the same channels as this year.

True, but you had 2 Large Markets in it .

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Bruce

Yesterday at 7:30 PM

Jimbo said:
Quick Question, WITHOUT Looking it up ...
Who played in the World Series last year ?

Two MLB teams.

Jimbo

Yesterday at 7:35 PM

Bruce said:
Two MLB teams.

Now, having low numbers this past year doesn't surprise me at all, you had 2 teams that don't like to spend tons of money and they are not your Large markets.

TRG

Yesterday at 8:53 PM

Jimbo said:
Not Me, I rather enjoy it ...

I thought you might like that. :biggrin

Jimbo

Today at 6:46 PM

Bruce said:
But I never posted about the playoffs, only the World Series.

And a 4 million drop in households is a big deal, specially what Fox pays for it, they are already losing money on the MLB contract, now even more, since they might have to give some of the money back to advertisers, since it might of not made certain ratings goals.

I guess they should figure that out ... maybe not offer as much if they can't afford it next time.

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dfergie

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU!

Last reply Today at 5:24 PM · posted in The Sports Section

Auto Racing 2026

New thread or keep this one?

View: https://www.youtube.com/live/AgOI9DNCmPg?si=l-YcZmHl7GXXF8fX

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dfergie

Oct 9, 2026

Tried to watch the truck race but the stage c**p is why I don't watch NASCAR anymore…

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Yespage

Oct 16, 2026

Today is the anniversary of Dan Wheldon's passing at Las Vegas in a dreadful crash that luckily didn't take more drivers' lives. I vaguely remember the crash, but I more strongly remember Paul Tracy trying to keep it together as he left the Medical Center knowing that Dan most likely wasn't going to.

The safety in these vehicles is beyond incomprehensible, especially relative to what it was 60 years ago, when dying wasn't unexpected. But it is still very dangerous. I always scoff at the prayer invocations, but never scoff at the risks these drivers take and the emergency workers out there who might need to pull short of a miracle to save a driver's life.

dfergie said:
Tried to watch the truck race but the stage c**p is why I don't watch NASCAR anymore…

HBO Max has the live in car streaming without commercials, which provides an interesting take, but you are driving blind, knowing only what the team is telling the driver about what is happening on the track. The stages definitely ruin the NASCAR set up.

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Yespage

Oct 30, 2026

NASCAR is an abject mess, but at least it has Kyle Larson. Guy had the lead on the green/white checker, fell back to 12th or the like, kept his cool, and charged back to win with room to spare at the line. And win very cleanly!

NASCAR needs to stop racing at Talladega. Especially if they are going for elderly Sunday drives at the track! Stage racing is real stupid, but NASCAR should consider one half point a second per group gap as a bonus.

Foxbat

Nov 2, 2026

Congratulations to the youngest Formula 1 World Champion, 20-year old Kimi Antonelli! The podium at the Mexican Grand Prix featured three World Champions with 4-time World Champion Max Verstappen, 7-time World Champion Lewis Hamilton, and newly-crowned World Champion Kimi Antonelli. A dozen World Championships represented!

https://youtube.com/post/UgkxnO1m73VHzLCyqFP8qgvzZMJyvwqtcc4d

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dfergie

Today at 5:24 PM

View: https://www.youtube.com/live/cbq3r3q5_1c?is=QHIwtnaoagug4G2V

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TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Today at 5:22 PM · posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Security Now 1104

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti8LXlpJEvI

Direct YouTube Link - Security Now 1104
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed

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TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Today at 4:12 PM · posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network