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mbarnes

Last reply Jun 8, 2007 · posted in Free To Air (FTA) Discussion

Subscription Radio Channels with FTA RX?

THIS IS NOT HACK TALK! Please don't delete.
I presently don't have any fta stuff up, but I need some fast answers.

On AMC3 C band on TP 17 at 4043 are a variety of Christian radio feeds. (http://www.lyngsat.com/amc3.html) Some of these are subscription channels. The three that I am involved with are SMA, SMB, and SMC from the Salem Music Network. Stations who subscribe to those feeds are using Wegener Unity 4000 receivers which are permissioned to receive those channels.

What I want to know is, with a normal FTA receiver, can you receive these channels? We are trying to determine if the lockout is a function of the command string in the DVB carrier, or some type of descrambling code that is provided to the receiver. The manufacturer of our control software and the receivers is unable to tell us how this works.

If any of you have the time (and have C-band), would you mind swinging over to AMC3 at 87 degrees and look at transponder 17 to see if you can get these channels?

Thanks so much for your help.

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techno935

Jun 1, 2007

That would suck if a station decided "hey, lets take Skylight" without knowing the authorization process. Flip on Skylight, go home, driving and hearing your station go dead.

mattb

Jun 2, 2007

techno935 said:
That would suck if a station decided "hey, lets take Skylight" without knowing the authorization process. Flip on Skylight, go home, driving and hearing your station go dead.

When a station wants to carry a networks programming they have to sign an agreement usually so a station would not willingly be cut off from skylight's programming or salem's or anyone elses for that matter if they had a legit contract to use it... if a station had an agreement with say skylight they would not have their receiver blanked after 10 mins, same with the stations that carry salem's todays' Christian music -- their recvs are authorized for it so they can "flip the bird on" and leave... and rest assured the programming will be there.

mbarnes

Jun 2, 2007

Thanks everyone for your answers. It has been very helpful. While I'm pretty good with most of the DVB stuff, the permissioning was a bit of a grey area. Even the manufacturer was unable to answer the question that you guys handled quickly.
BTW, for those who mentioned CRTech, thanks for the plug. I am one of the co-founders of the CRTech list. If you look at the archives or past messages, sort them by author and look for Michael. That would be me.
Regarding the comments about a lot of religious programming. That particular DVB feed on TP17/4043 has some 35 or so channels for the Christian Radio consortium or CRC. Hence the whole thing is Christian programming. Other than possibly the Moody channel you will not hear any station IDs as these are feed channels. Local radio stations take the programs and air them on their own schedule. Almost everything there is free to use. There are a few of the feeds which require registration with the provider to get your receiver authorized for it. Some channels, like Salem A, Salem B, and Salem C are subscription channels, which you actually have to pay for to use.
The thing that I was unable to find out was how the permissioning took place. For example, if you do not have a subscription for Dish Network and you use an FTA receiver, you will not see their programming. My question being similar, if you do not have a subscription to Salem A and you try to listen to it with an FTA receiver, would you hear anything or would it be blocked? From the answers, it appears that you can hear it just fine. That would mean that the Compel control commands only tell a Unity 4000 (FWIW, I was the one who coined the term U4K) receiver whether it can or cannot listen to a specific channel. Otherwise, the channel is not scrambled and should be receivable by any non-U4K (or other Compel controlled) receiver.
With eleven channels, I happen to be the biggest user in the CRC group. I also have two full time and one part time channel on the ABC Starguide system on AMC1.

Even us 'experts' need some help now and again.

Thanks again everybody.

mattb

Jun 7, 2007

Michael,

One would think that the CRC channels could be uplink/ encoded in a way that you could block them from FTA. I would think the Unity 4000 (u4k) could handle it. Fox used to use the U4k with video capabilties at one point for FSN programming to some cable providers so I would suspect it has the ability to do some form of encryption unless the u4k's for the CRC have that portion left out of firmware.

You would think the folks at the microspace uplink would have an idea.

mbarnes

Jun 8, 2007

mattb said:
Michael,

One would think that the CRC channels could be uplink/ encoded in a way that you could block them from FTA. I would think the Unity 4000 (u4k) could handle it. Fox used to use the U4k with video capabilties at one point for FSN programming to some cable providers so I would suspect it has the ability to do some form of encryption unless the u4k's for the CRC have that portion left out of firmware.

You would think the folks at the microspace uplink would have an idea.

It's actually quite amazing what is known and what is assumed. This is normally an extremely busy field, and you often only get detail on what you need to. Otherwise, you have a box with an input and an output and it works. Internal encoding and other tricks are not important knowledge to keep things going. What management wants to know is, "Can we get the signal to our users?" and "Can we limit some signals to only subscribed users?". The sales people will say, "Yes, you can authorize or de-authorize our receivers as needed." Nobody even thinks of some one with an FTA receiver listening in. A lot depends on the program content. The CRC is in a unique position compared to most broadcasters or content distributors. The majority of the content is free anyhow. The goal, after all, is to spread the Gospel to every one and get the widest possible dissemination. So, actually, to meet that objective, we, the CRC, for the most part don't really care if you can pick these up. In fact most of our program providers are happy for the increased audience. Of course the vendor tells management that this is an exclusive system and only works with their equipment. Management typically takes that at face value and assumes that means no one without a properly authorized receiver can get the subscription channels. But it still leaves a few unknowns, hence my original questions.

We got some former Fox receivers. IIRC, they either had an option module or an external box to deal with the scrambled video.

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Scott Greczkowski

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge

Last reply 1 minute ago · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Song Name Game Part 3!

Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne

Get it?

An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....

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dishstaller

Today at 2:34 PM

Dancing in the Street - Van Halen

long_time_Dish

Today at 3:47 PM

Bakers Street - Gerry Rafferty

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Bobby

Today at 4:09 PM

long_time_Dish said:
Bakers Street - Gerry Rafferty

Let me fix that for you:
Baker Street - Gerry Rafferty

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EatMyVolts

Today at 6:02 PM

The 59th Street Bridge Song -- Simon & Garfunkel

Reactions: long_time_Dish

long_time_Dish

1 minute ago

52nd Street - Billy Joel

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osu1991

Pub Member / Supporter

Last reply 1 minute ago · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Susan Saint James, Emmy-Winning Star of 'Kate & Allie' and 'McMillan & Wife,' Dies at 80

Susan Saint James, Emmy-Winning Star of ‘Kate & Allie’ and ‘McMillan & Wife,’ Dies at 80

Susan Saint James, the Emmy-winning actress who starred in "Kate & Allie," died Monday after being diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. She was 80.

variety.com

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Bobby

Today at 5:01 PM

Rest in peace.

sdfntx

1 minute ago

Sorry to hear this. R.I.P.

niembre

Last reply 16 minutes ago · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

OTA no working after Update

My OTA is not working anymore. This started after the latest update. I have the OTA dongle with a OTA antenna that I've been using for years. My hopper does not recognize the dongle anymore and when I go to the OTA setting, it has a screen that says to plug a dongle into the USB. I tried unplugging and plugging back, in the same usb port and other ports. The Hopper does not recognize it. Anyone have same issue?

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dishstaller

Wednesday at 9:57 PM

Installed an off-air antenna a couple days ago for a customer who had just cancelled his Dish service. He had a dual off-air adapter and gave it to me. Cool. I'll keep it on the truck....might come in handy. Got to admit I don't watch anything as far as live tv goes anymore. Even if we have severe weather, our local channels will have a live feed on Youtube.

Reactions: slow_poke_pete, navychop and charlesrshell

navychop

Wednesday at 11:21 PM

In other news, it was announced that the software fix for the two tin cans and a string will not be forthcoming. A hardware fix is required. However, that fix will let you receive stations from a gazillion miles away.

Truck roll charges may apply. Two year commitment required.

Reactions: Almighty1, Bobby, dishstaller and 1 other person

brittanygarden

Thursday at 6:24 PM

Hi all. If you were using a single tuner USB OTA adapter that is no longer working, please PM me. Thanks.

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Jim5506

Friday at 11:48 PM

brittanygarden said:
Hi all. If you were using a single tuner USB OTA adapter that is no longer working, please PM me. Thanks.

I have the dual tuner OTA adapter currently connected, but I have 2 of the single tuner OTA adapters that I can quickly connect - neither is seen by my H3.

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Briant73

16 minutes ago

Got the dual tuner OTA adapter, was able to set it up and get back my OTA channels. Thanks to everyone and extra thanks to the DISH reps in this forum!

Reactions: charlesrshell

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TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Today at 6:33 PM · posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Security Now 1102

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UK11O-VoMBU

Direct YouTube Link - Security Now 1102
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed

0 Replies · 4 views

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meStevo

Lifetime Supporter

Last reply Today at 6:21 PM · posted in The Sports Section

NFL 2026-2027 Season

Schedule drops tomorrow. Mandatory mini camps in June. Hall of Fame game August 6th.

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rvvaquero

Oct 20, 2026

Jerry Jones and Jimmy Johnson had an argument about who was responsible for the dynasty building of the early 90's Cowboys.

The rest of us figured it out in about 3 years, Jerry has had over 30 years but still can't admit it. It's all he lives for, to show everyone he can put together a winner. I don't think he can. His kids only know what he taught them.

Reactions: Mike0616, dfergie and b4pjoe

Yespage

Thursday at 9:15 AM

rvvaquero said:
Jerry Jones and Jimmy Johnson had an argument about who was responsible for the dynasty building of the early 90's Cowboys.

The rest of us figured it out in about 3 years, Jerry has had over 30 years but still can't admit it. It's all he lives for, to show everyone he can put together a winner. I don't think he can. His kids only know what he taught them.

Johnson built it, but without the Herschel Walker trade, it never happens.

Reactions: AZ. and b4pjoe

b4pjoe

Thursday at 9:53 AM

Yespage said:
Johnson built it, but without the Herschel Walker trade, it never happens.

Jerry made himself General Manager after he bought the team but make no mistake Jimmy engineered that trade. As well as a lot of others at the time.

Reactions: rvvaquero, osu1991 and Yespage

rvvaquero

Thursday at 11:50 AM

Jimmy Johnson is a football guy. Jerry Jones is a marketer (hustler).

When I see a football player get a 15 yard penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct (like taunting) in a close game, I often wonder what he was thinking. Was he thinking, I'm doing everything I can to make this a better team and help win a championship? Or, was he saying to himself, I want everyone to notice how great I am?

Johnson inspires one, Jones the other.

Reactions: AZ., b4pjoe and Mike0616

meStevo

Thursday at 10:53 PM

View: https://x.com/AdamSchefter/status/2113438192913588676?s=20

Reactions: AZ., Mike0616 and osu1991

meStevo

Sunday at 8:17 PM

Got to unfurl and hold the flag at Allegiant for the anthem today - amazing experience.

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HipKat

Today at 6:21 PM

Balls
Bears. Gave the Pats a good beatdown.
Bucs. Got Baker back and absolutely demolished the previously surprising Panthers.
Falcons. Took care of the 49ers and did so convincingly.
Vikings. I hate them. I do. I've never seen such a bad/good team. Know what I mean? I know their D is epic. But their O is insulting. How they remain undefeated is a mystery.
Rams. Finally looked the part. Mind you against the hapless Cards.
Cowboys. Fireworks performance from their O.
Dolphins. Finally logged in a W. There won't be many. Enjoy it, Miami fans.
Browns. Still atop the AFC North.
Giants. Epic OT win with Buffalo's very own Motor Singletary finishing it off.
Seattle. Dominated KC from start to finish.

Goats
Jets. Couldn't beat the winless Dolphins. Aaron Glenn is a dead man walking.
Eagles. Injured beyond repair
Ravens and Lamar. Has he ever played a full season? Honestly, dude is fragile. Of course he's back for the Bills game.
49ers. No longer undefeated.
Colts. A sh*t show. When are they gonna realize that Daniel Jones is ass?
Steelers vs Saints game. Ass, just ass all around. Those poor people in Paris have had enough lately, and on top of that, endure that game.
Chiefs. They looked terrible. Like really bad.
Pack vs. Detroit game refs. Some of the worst refereeing I've seen in a long time. And the sample is pretty large.

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MartyDe

Last reply Today at 5:37 PM · posted in Over the Air Television By RabbitEars.Info

ATSC 3 converter boxes

Interesting article about the work being done to develope an ATSC 3 converter box. Yes it does mention affordable.

Pearl TV Issues Progress Report on Low-Cost 3.0 Converters in Advance of NAB Show New York

Group has secured lower pricing from key tech players to make less costly boxes available

www.tvtechnology.com

10 Replies · 551 views

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navychop

Oct 20, 2026

DEATH TO NEXGEN!

Reactions: primestar31, RaVo68, gms49ers and 1 other person

primestar31

Wednesday at 7:29 PM

navychop said:
DEATH TO NEXGEN!

It's dead, they just don't know it yet. They killed it by forcing DRM on it, and that TOTALLY botched implementing it.

There is absolutely NO compelling reason for anybody to switch to ATSC3.0. They only want it as a total and complete money grab.

Reactions: slow_poke_pete, FTA4PA and navychop

navychop

Wednesday at 10:37 PM

I truly hope you are right.

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Mister B

Thursday at 7:43 AM

What bothers me is the total waste of broadcasting spectrum in this very crowded market. It has been almost three years now since KFOX converted their broadcast tower to ATSC 3.0 and moved all of their channels to other towers causing noticeable degradation of the picture quality.
I have a Sony TV with 3.0 capabilities but still use the 1.0 version of locals due to the fact that one or all of the 3.0 channels are often missing or unwatchable. In this city of 800K I doubt that more than a few hundred even know about ATSC 3.0.
The only thing that could motivate me to be interested in 3.0 would be if all of the minor networks (diginets) could be in at least 720P rather than blurry ultra-compressed 480i.
Three years is long enough to waste one of the few available RF frequencies in the area for this trial.
It is time to either move on with this experiment or call it quits.

navychop

Thursday at 4:31 PM

Mister B said:
In this city of 800K I doubt that more than a few hundred even know about ATSC 3.0.

They might notice the hand going into their pocket for their wallet.

Reactions: FTA4PA

navychop

Thursday at 4:31 PM

Mister B said:
It is time to either move on with this experiment or call it quits.

QFT. Of course, my preference involves a curb and some kicking.

Reactions: FTA4PA

slow_poke_pete

Today at 5:37 PM

primestar31 said:
It's dead, they just don't know it yet. They killed it by forcing DRM on it, and that TOTALLY botched implementing it.

There is absolutely NO compelling reason for anybody to switch to ATSC3.0. They only want it as a total and complete money grab.

WHAT ABOUT THE INTERNET PART OF IT. NO ONE WANTS A BOX CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET EITHER.

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TRG

Pub Member / Supporter

Last reply Today at 5:35 PM · posted in Local Radio Discussion

House Passes AM Radio For Every Vehicle Act

House Passes AM Radio For Every Vehicle Act

(Washington, DC) - The U.S. House has passed the AM Radio for Every Vehicle Act, marking a major step forward for broadcasters and listeners who have pushed to keep AM radio available in new cars and

wabcradio.com

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dishdude

Sep 18, 2026

It's probably been 2 decades since I've listened to an AM radio station. Very rarely listen to FM any more.

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Jimbo

Today at 8:35 AM

I am 1 that wants the AM to Stay ....
That said, since '08 I have had Sat radio available to me ... I think I have turned on AM 3 or 4 times, just to see if its still there.

Fwiw, if theres a Major disaster or bad weather or whatever, the chances of me finding out about it by going to the AM side of the radio is SLIM and None.
Even FM, I haven't really had on since '13ish, I may turn it on from time to time, just to see if its still there.

harshness

Today at 10:10 AM

Jimbo said:
Fwiw, if theres a Major disaster or bad weather or whatever, the chances of me finding out about it by going to the AM side of the radio is SLIM and None.

Automation has seen to that. You can't get evening drive traffic reports where I live, much less disaster reports.

dishstaller

Today at 10:41 AM

dishdude said:
Very rarely listen to FM any more

That goes for a lot of people. I've been advertising on radio for more than a decade now and am very familiar with this subject. While it is still a valuable tool, it has far less impact than it did just a few years ago. The best reaction I get is from a local Country music station....they play a mix of older and newer music and have a very big footprint.

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Jimbo

Today at 11:03 AM

dishstaller said:
That goes for a lot of people. I've been advertising on radio for more than a decade now and am very familiar with this subject. While it is still a valuable tool, it has far less impact than it did just a few years ago. The best reaction I get is from a local Country music station....they play a mix of older and newer music and have a very big footprint.

Do you do any Ad's on Satellite ?

If Not, why not, because it's not Local ?

dishstaller

Today at 12:29 PM

Jimbo said:
Do you do any Ad's on Satellite ?

If Not, why not, because it's not Local ?

No, just regular FM stations. One is the country station I mentioned and the other is a Talk Radio station which used to get fantastic results but honestly, since the death of Rush Limbaugh, talk radio just doesn't do as well. There were two guys who had an early morning show which was hugely popular here in the southeast but one of them retired a couple years ago and the show just doesn't garner the same numbers as it used to.

slow_poke_pete

Today at 5:35 PM

Haven't listened AM or FM in years

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TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Today at 5:02 PM · posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Security Now 1101

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ4Z4zafNLI

Direct YouTube Link - Security Now 1101
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed

0 Replies · 8 views

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JSheridan

Lifetime Supporter

Last reply Today at 4:58 PM · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

All DMA's now Western Arc

I know HipKat said that they were working on conversions but we got the official news yesterday right from Dish that starting next month all DMA's will be on the western arc, and all customers will be assigned to that. That's gonna mean a lot of customers around here aren't gonna get Dish unless there are exceptions. Too many mountains and trees.

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Strega

Friday at 10:01 PM

Even if you are broadcasting old SD-only shows, I would think advertisers would still want their commercials to look good.

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Jimbo

Friday at 11:17 PM

Strega said:
Even if you are broadcasting old SD-only shows, I would think advertisers would still want their commercials to look good.

Advertisers on SD channels are probably Far and Few, very hard to find, they have very few viewers to watch them.

Reactions: charlesrshell

Mister B

Saturday at 7:35 AM

Jimbo said:
Advertisers on SD channels are probably Far and Few, very hard to find, they have very few viewers to watch them.

I watch mostly SD channels (H&I, Start and ION, etc.). There are plenty of advertisers, this time of the year it is mostly Medicare Advantage plans, auto extended warranties and the occasional walk-in-tub. They know who is watching.

Reactions: Almighty1, savarese04 and charlesrshell

slow_poke_pete

Yesterday at 10:40 AM

Mister B said:
I watch mostly SD channels (H&I, Start and ION, etc.). There are plenty of advertisers, this time of the year it is mostly Medicare Advantage plans, auto extended warranties and the occasional walk-in-tub. They know who is watching.

can't forget the little blue m&m's

Reactions: Almighty1, charlesrshell and telstar_1

charlesrshell

Yesterday at 11:23 AM

slow_poke_pete said:
can't forget the little blue m&m's

That's what my wife calls my Viagra!!

Reactions: Almighty1, slow_poke_pete, MikeD-C05 and 2 others

telstar_1

Yesterday at 8:12 PM

Why didn't Charlie end up launching starlink

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Foxbat

Yesterday at 9:01 PM

telstar_1 said:
Why didn't Charlie end up launching starlink

Because he didn't have a fleet of reusable rockets. Starlink works because SpaceX is able to launch hundreds (thousands?) of their Starlink satellites for what a single geostationary Internet satellite costs to build and launch on a disposable launcher.

Reactions: MikeD-C05, dishstaller, HipKat and 2 others

telstar_1

Today at 12:08 AM

But how is it reusable if it's disposable

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slow_poke_pete

Today at 2:09 AM

charlesrshell said:
That's what my wife calls my Viagra!!

My gf is 29 years younger than me :shh

Reactions: MikeD-C05, charlesrshell and HipKat

Almighty1

Today at 4:04 PM

telstar_1 said:
Why didn't Charlie end up launching starlink

He does not have the resources aka $$$ compared to Elon Musk as in reality, Elon can eat Charlie for lunch or even mop the floor with Charlie if he wanted to.

Reactions: charlesrshell

slow_poke_pete

Today at 4:58 PM

ment to 20 yrs dam phone

Reactions: charlesrshell

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Marques Brownlee

Today at 4:42 PM · posted in Marques Brownlee

This can SEE Sound!

Time for another AWESOME video from Marques Brownlee!

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ai1gIWacf0I

Direct YouTube Link - This can SEE Sound!
The official MKBHD Website!
The MKBHD Store

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Social Feed

Subscription Radio Channels with FTA RX?

Song Name Game Part 3!

Susan Saint James, Emmy-Winning Star of 'Kate & Allie' and 'McMillan & Wife,' Dies at 80

Susan Saint James, Emmy-Winning Star of ‘Kate & Allie’ and ‘McMillan & Wife,’ Dies at 80

OTA no working after Update

Security Now 1102

NFL 2026-2027 Season

ATSC 3 converter boxes

Pearl TV Issues Progress Report on Low-Cost 3.0 Converters in Advance of NAB Show New York

House Passes AM Radio For Every Vehicle Act

House Passes AM Radio For Every Vehicle Act

Security Now 1101

All DMA's now Western Arc

This can SEE Sound!