2nd tuner or even single tuner available in ATSC digital anywhere?

[davebeal]

Hey guys,

I'm a 30 year custom installer. Most of my installs have satellite, either Dish or DirecTv. I have been a retailer for both in the past, but neither now, so I'm out of the loop a little bit.

Does either company offer the 2nd tuner on their receiver in the new digital ATSC format, or is it still strictly NTSC standard Def RF?

We all have the same similar problem, and I can't understand the holdup. The current project I'm working on is a house that will have 10 flat panel Tv's wallmounted.

Obviously I want to distribute in HD to all the TV's. Up till now I've had to do it with Cat5 and baluns, and a very expensive converter ($3000).

The whole problem would be taken care of if the RF output was in the new digital format.

Anyone heard of the possibility of any new models coming with this feature?

I'd appreciate any prompt input, I have to start wiring the house Tuesday 11/3, and It would sure be a better plan and lower expense to do it over RG6.

As a side note, there are only 3 users in the house a doctor's wife and 2 kids
The equipment will be centrally located at the structured wiring enclosure in the basement and all will be converted to RF remotes.

Need 4 HD tuners total.

Thanks,
Dave Beal
HiDef Homes Plus

 

[davebeal]

I failed to mention that I could make it work with single tuner models, and in fact I guess I have to since only the first tuner is HD anyway.

 

[BobaBird]

All of the tuners in the HD receivers are HD tuners. The TV2 output of the Duo receivers downconverts HD to SD. The HDMI and component connections can be used at the same time, but both would see the same TV1 content.

 

[TigerpounceTN]

All of the tuners in the HD receivers are HD tuners. The TV2 output of the Duo receivers downconverts HD to SD. The HDMI and component connections can be used at the same time, but both would see the same TV1 content.

I think the original poster is wondering if the satellite receivers can output an ATSC HD signal to be received through the internal tuner of the televisions. Using coax cable would be much easier and cheaper than extending HDMI and using switches and all of that. The answer is no. Why? Money. Corporate interests keep this from happening because they assume that everyone is a dirty criminal and that their content would be all over the internet in HD if they allowed cable and satellite companies to provide a signal that they don't have total control over. As if it isn't already that way...

Of course, it would be nice if they would build a system to distribute throughout a home using encrypted QAM and a custom cablecard that decrypts the signal from the Dish receiver. That would keep copyright fascists happy and allow a logical and easy and cheaper way to hook up multiple televisions in HD.

 

[nsafreak]

If what I understand you're asking correctly is you want to know if E* or D* makes a box that outputs an ATSC signal across a coaxial connection and/or if either has plans to manufacture one in the near future if they don't currently. Neither E* nor D* currently manufacturers a unit that outputs an ATSC signal over coaxial cable. And in all honesty I doubt either will anytime soon, if ever. The reason is quite simple really. The MPAA would throw a hissy fit to end all hissy fits if the potential existed for their programming to be easily recorded in full HD which is exactly what a clear ATSC signal would allow. There are multiple PC cards on the market readily available that will take that signal and record it.

Sorry, for the time being you're going to have to continue with your current setup involving multiple HD boxes and that $3000 converter. Perhaps someday E* or D* will come up with a solution to easily enable output to multiple HD sets in a household.

 

[whatchel1]

Have

If what I understand you're asking correctly is you want to know if E* or D* makes a box that outputs an ATSC signal across a coaxial connection and/or if either has plans to manufacture one in the near future if they don't currently. Neither E* nor D* currently manufacturers a unit that outputs an ATSC signal over coaxial cable. And in all honesty I doubt either will anytime soon, if ever. The reason is quite simple really. The MPAA would throw a hissy fit to end all hissy fits if the potential existed for their programming to be easily recorded in full HD which is exactly what a clear ATSC signal would allow. There are multiple PC cards on the market readily available that will take that signal and record it.

Sorry, for the time being you're going to have to continue with your current setup involving multiple HD boxes and that $3000 converter. Perhaps someday E* or D* will come up with a solution to easily enable output to multiple HD sets in a household.

What you mean MPAA would they already have. That's why we are continuing to get the shaft.

 

[davebeal]

Thank you for prompt replies!

Thank you very much for your prompt replies and YES, you exactly answered my questions.

So, this begs the question.....where are we going to end up eventually? And how do do wire for it?

My thought is.....

It's probably going to end up in a network/IP format. Where you have a media server instead of a DVR, possibly with mutliple tuners/ multiple user streams, and encrypted signal for copyright protection.

If tht turns out to be the case, which there are already similar media server systems.....

Then most likely the proper wiring is going to be Cat6. It could work for now on Cat5, but in a short period of time that probably won't be quite good enough and it will require more bandwith.

The explosion of sites such as HULU, seem to predict that model, whereas material that may be copyrighted, and may be HD, bbut wide distribution is more important than the copyright. Ie, movies that weren't major hit's and regular TV shows.

Any feedback on the media server/network possibilities from Echo or D?

BTW, I see our TV's getting the lines blurred with computers maybe as soon as next year. Surf/stream/youtube/webcam video etc..

Thanks again, Dave Beal

 

[osu1991]

The 922 with sling built in will help some. I distribute using CAT 5 and 6 in my house and most of my friends and families houses that I wire.

 

[johnwadams]

Hey guys,

I'm a 30 year custom installer. Most of my installs have satellite, either Dish or DirecTv. I have been a retailer for both in the past, but neither now, so I'm out of the loop a little bit.

Does either company offer the 2nd tuner on their receiver in the new digital ATSC format, or is it still strictly NTSC standard Def RF?

We all have the same similar problem, and I can't understand the holdup. The current project I'm working on is a house that will have 10 flat panel Tv's wallmounted.

Obviously I want to distribute in HD to all the TV's. Up till now I've had to do it with Cat5 and baluns, and a very expensive converter ($3000).

The whole problem would be taken care of if the RF output was in the new digital format.

Anyone heard of the possibility of any new models coming with this feature?

I'd appreciate any prompt input, I have to start wiring the house Tuesday 11/3, and It would sure be a better plan and lower expense to do it over RG6.

As a side note, there are only 3 users in the house a doctor's wife and 2 kids
The equipment will be centrally located at the structured wiring enclosure in the basement and all will be converted to RF remotes.

Need 4 HD tuners total.

Thanks,
Dave Beal
HiDef Homes Plus

I think there has to be some way.
As of March 2007, the cable tv system in Del Rio, Texas distributed 720P and 1080i over RG-6 straight to the tv. No converter boxes, no cards. Just an ATSC tuner in the tv.

We spent several nights in an RV park there and I was shocked when I turned on my set and it locked in on well over 100 channels. All over the air signals were in their native format, 720P for Fox and ABC, 1080i for NBC and CBS and I think the HD cable channels were in 1080i. The network subchannels were in their native 480i.

Last year the cable company in Fort Davis, TX had just started to broadcast network HD channels. Same as above but they only had 2 or 3 up as a test.

Would this do the job for you??? http://www.zeevee.com/connected-home/zvbox150

 

[DishSubLA]

I think the original poster is wondering if the satellite receivers can output an ATSC HD signal to be received through the internal tuner of the televisions. Using coax cable would be much easier and cheaper than extending HDMI and using switches and all of that. The answer is no. Why? Money. Corporate interests keep this from happening because they assume that everyone is a dirty criminal and that their content would be all over the internet in HD if they allowed cable and satellite companies to provide a signal that they don't have total control over. As if it isn't already that way...

Of course, it would be nice if they would build a system to distribute throughout a home using encrypted QAM and a custom cablecard that decrypts the signal from the Dish receiver. That would keep copyright fascists happy and allow a logical and easy and cheaper way to hook up multiple televisions in HD.

Exactly! Dish even had plans for a whole home solution that was based on re-modulating in ATSC to send HD to all TV's in the houshold. How elegant, but that was killed by the content owners who HATE even the thought of any of their content being re modulated in ATSC. It caused great panic to them.

 

[DishSubLA]

I think there has to be some way.
As of March 2007, the cable tv system in Del Rio, Texas distributed 720P and 1080i over RG-6 straight to the tv. No converter boxes, no cards. Just an ATSC tuner in the tv.

We spent several nights in an RV park there and I was shocked when I turned on my set and it locked in on well over 100 channels. All over the air signals were in their native format, 720P for Fox and ABC, 1080i for NBC and CBS and I think the HD cable channels were in 1080i. The network subchannels were in their native 480i.

Last year the cable company in Fort Davis, TX had just started to broadcast network HD channels. Same as above but they only had 2 or 3 up as a test.

Would this do the job for you??? ZvBox? 150 - HD Video Distribution Made Easy. | ZeeVee.com

There are plenty of ways. Technology is not the problem. The trick is to find a way the content owners and providers will allow. The movie studios are the most draconian in this area, and they target cable and sat more than some of the smaller companies out there because cable and sat have so many users. We are darn lucky the movie studios allowed Dish to implement the external HDD we have now. All the restrictions to external HDD are imposed by content owners and carriers.

 

[navychop]

....Would this do the job for you??? ZvBox? 150 - HD Video Distribution Made Easy. | ZeeVee.com

At $400 ([ame]Amazon link[/ame])?

 

[tnsprin]

As mentioned Dish doesn't currently have one that outputs ATSC.

However their First HD capable receiver was the 5000 with an optional HD card. The HD card send out their then MPEG2 signal as a ATSC signal that you had to connect to a TV/Tuner that could receive IT. There was no component, DVI, or HDMI connection and no down conversion. Several changes makes this equipment no longer work.

 

[davebeal]

TOUCHDOWN!!! JOHN ADAMS has the perfect solution, that is exactly what we all need to do. I have always modulated satellite and cameras this way, and got lazy about thinking in those terms after Dish started incorporating their own modulator.
This will work perfectly, as long as you have a plan for RF remote control or IR system. This gives me a way to upgrade all the existing homes I have done this way as well.
I won't kiss ya, but I might buy ya a beer, LOL. Thanks for waking my dumbass up. I hd looked into that about a year ago, but couldn't find an ATSC modulator then.

The only downside, as it stands right now with this model is the 720p resolution. If the receiver was getting double use, as a local source and a remote source, the local source would also be limited to 720p. I rarely did it this was but there were applications where thats what the customer wanted to do.

It would be nice if you could adjust the resolution output independently on dual tuner receivers, or use HDMI for tuner #1, and component video for Tuner #2.

So that cable company in Texas must have been very forward looking to use ATSC modulators at their headend. I have built headends for Hotel in-house cable systems in the past, and the commercial version of this is the answer for them as well. The more I think about it the more upset I am at myself for not thinking of it.

 

[Bradtothebone]

TOUCHDOWN!!! JOHN ADAMS has the perfect solution, that is exactly what we all need to do. I have always modulated satellite and cameras this way, and got lazy about thinking in those terms after Dish started incorporating their own modulator.
This will work perfectly, as long as you have a plan for RF remote control or IR system. This gives me a way to upgrade all the existing homes I have done this way as well.
I won't kiss ya, but I might buy ya a beer, LOL. Thanks for waking my dumbass up. I hd looked into that about a year ago, but couldn't find an ATSC modulator then.

The only downside, as it stands right now with this model is the 720p resolution. If the receiver was getting double use, as a local source and a remote source, the local source would also be limited to 720p. I rarely did it this was but there were applications where thats what the customer wanted to do.

It would be nice if you could adjust the resolution output independently on dual tuner receivers, or use HDMI for tuner #1, and component video for Tuner #2.

So that cable company in Texas must have been very forward looking to use ATSC modulators at their headend. I have built headends for Hotel in-house cable systems in the past, and the commercial version of this is the answer for them as well. The more I think about it the more upset I am at myself for not thinking of it.

A couple of notes of caution:

• This unit only takes VGA or DVI-A inputs on the video side, and USB on the audio side. I don't think any current E* receiver will be compatible.
• May not be an issue, but output appears to be QAM (for "digital cable-ready" HDTV's), not ATSC.

Kind of an interesting product, but maybe not exactly what you need.

Brad

 

[davebeal]

Whew, pretty pricey on the ZVBOX 150, though $999 retail to modulate a single channel. Might have to wait awhile for that to come down. They can't have that much expense in it, you can buy a cheap single channel SD modulator for $39.
I guess that also explains why it doesn't come built into the receivers yet!

They also make a model that modulates your PC to true HD for half that. Nice option for Internet streaming video from Hulu/YouTube etc..to your HDTV.

 

[davebeal]

Brad I think that is the ZV100 model, it's predecessor. The ZV150 has component video, and coaxial digital audio inputs, but your right the specs page lists the modulator as QAM.
I'll have to call them tomorrow and find out for sure.

Either way, it makes it a matter of time before somebody has it. If I find another solution I'll update you guys. I never take no for an answer.

 

[Bradtothebone]

Brad I think that is the ZV100 model, it's predecessor. The ZV150 has component video, and coaxial digital audio inputs, but your right the specs page lists the modulator as QAM.
I'll have to call them tomorrow and find out for sure.

Either way, it makes it a matter of time before somebody has it. If I find another solution I'll update you guys. I never take no for an answer.

Sorry, I used the Amazon link above, which was the computer model.