720p Decision

[Tom Bombadil]

The 720p DLP sets are not "overrated". They provide an excellent picture that will never degrade or need alignment. The biggest plus is no burn in. On a 50" set 720p is a great choice. 1080p might be useful in a larger set. And no one is broadcasting 1080p or using it for HD DVDs (at this point).

Although once Blu-Ray and/or HD-DVD ships, the native format will be 1920x1080i, which means that the images will have to go through a conversion step on a 720p set, which always degrades the image to some extent. HD DVDs will definitely look better on a 1080p set.

 

[hpman247]

From my eyes, and obviously this is my opinion, I like 1080i.

 

[T2k]

Although once Blu-Ray and/or HD-DVD ships, the native format will be 1920x1080i, which means that the images will have to go through a conversion step on a 720p set, which always degrades the image to some extent. HD DVDs will definitely look better on a 1080p set.

"the native format will be 1920x1080i," - this is bogus. Where did you get this info? It's not true.

 

[AndyOI]

From my eyes, and obviously this is my opinion, I like 1080i.

I'd have to agree here. I've only had an HD set for a few days, but on a native 768p plasma (upconverts 720p, downconverts 1080i) the 1080i looks significantly better than the 720p signals.

What I don't understand is why 480p DVDs look better than everything else?

 

[T2k]

I agree that 1080p is the real winner.

720p vs 1080i is debatable. Definite advantages for progressive, non-interlaced frames on motion. Definite better resolution along the horizontal axis (1920 vs 1280) for 1080i. Slightly better overall resolution to 1080i too. Even more so if the set diminishes the interlace flicker - although that compounds the motion artifacts a bit more.

"Definite better resolution along the horizontal axis (1920 vs 1280) for 1080i." - it sounds nice but there's no such thing. You see series of 1920x540 frames, one made up from odd lines, the other one from even lines - compare it to 60 full 1280x720 frame.
Flickering cannot be taken away unless you deinterlace it - which means it's not 1080i anymore but 1080p or 720p.

This debate is further compounded when considering that some 720p DLP sets use wobulation to achieve 720p, which is a kind of interlacing, although at a faster "frame" rate and with some pixel overlap.

Uhh, that sounds awful. TBH I'm not a big fan of any projection technology, I think it's an old technology revived. None of them comes close to the sharpness of LCD or even plasma, for example.

What burns me is that TV technology is making rapid advances and we may well have true 1920x1080p, high contrast, non-wobulated, affordable sets before too long. But our content providers are moving in the opposite direction, they provided high resolution when our sets couldn't take full advantage of it, now they may provide lower resolution when our sets can show the difference.

Due to the very high bandwidth need of 1080p60, currently only 1080p30 is the upcoming "1080p" - but that's still sux for fast-paced motion, ergo expect 720p60 to stay for a long time. That's why I'm also expecting 1080i will die off when 1080p30 (and p24) becomes common.

 

[T2k]

I'd have to agree here. I've only had an HD set for a few days, but on a native 768p plasma (upconverts 720p, downconverts 1080i) the 1080i looks significantly better than the 720p signals.
What I don't understand is why 480p DVDs look better than everything else?

Well, this last sentence just convinced me you have a serious problem there, that's why you think 1080i looks any better than a progressive 720p...

 

[Poke]

Yeah 720p is good but 1080i is always better due to it has more lines. 1080i and 1080p there is not that much diffrence between the two. Its all in the lines so the more lines the better PQ.

 

[T2k]

Yeah 720p is good but 1080i is always better due to it has more lines. 1080i and 1080p there is not that much diffrence between the two. Its all in the lines so the more lines the better PQ.

This is completely bogus. Please, read the topic before you post such false information like this.

 

[Poke]

This is not false!! 1080i and 1080p yes 1080p is better but It's not like a night day diffrence is all I'm saying When is all said and done its how things are broadcast on the other end.

 

[AndyOI]

Well, this last sentence just convinced me you have a serious problem there, that's why you think 1080i looks any better than a progressive 720p...

Well I'll just say, unless something is completely wrong with my OTA signals, the 480p from DVDs looks crystal clear to me. The 1080i OTA signals (CBS, WB, NBC) are close behind, while the 720p signals (ABC, Fox) trail further behind. I'll be getting an HD receiver Friday to see how Dish's HD compares.

 

[Poke]

Yeah I have been happy with Dish HD so far I have not mess with the OTA HD on Dish but I would think it would be ok.

 

[Poke]

Good Read On Blu-Ray and HDDVD. Overall I think in the long run Blu-ray will be the standard for movies so on due to most of the big movie company's want Blu-Ray.Plus Sony and most of the big manufactures have already got Blu-Ray players and recorders made. To where HDDVD might be more for PC side of things since Microsoft is in the PC market.

Anyway here the read http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=175400242

 

[Poke]

Must Read. 1080i vs 1080p.

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6449_7-6361600-1.html

This really sums it up yes there is some benifts with 1080p but not a big diffrence. So just buy whats in your budget or what works in your enviorment the best.

 

[sbturner]

I have a Samsung 46" DLP, and love it. Anything bigger would have been too big in my living room although I do wish I would have went with the 50". 720p is better for sports or anything fast moving. On CBS College Football which is in 1080i you can see the flickering in fast movement, not bad but you don't see that on ESPN which is native 720p. Belieive me that 720p picture on ESPN is sweet. The CBS 1080i picture is just as good as long as it is not fast moving pictures.

 

[Poke]

Yeah ESPN is really good and can't waite untill they add ESPN2.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

"the native format will be 1920x1080i," - this is bogus. Where did you get this info? It's not true.

This is what Sony has been saying that they will release their movies in on Blu-Ray. Their first release, "Charlie's Angels" that they will be showing at CES is in 1920x1080, and the player's output is 1080i. I suspect it will also have a 720p output option, but the player's electronics will have to downconvert the source first.

I would not be surprised if 2nd gen Blu-Ray players have 1080p outputs.

Now this doesn't mean that all Blu-Ray discs will be in 1920x1080, but I suspect the majority will be.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

"Definite better resolution along the horizontal axis (1920 vs 1280) for 1080i." - it sounds nice but there's no such thing. You see series of 1920x540 frames, one made up from odd lines, the other one from even lines - compare it to 60 full 1280x720 frame.

Flickering cannot be taken away unless you deinterlace it - which means it's not 1080i anymore but 1080p or 720p.

You are taking the position that a frame with 1920x540 resolution has "less" horizontal resolution than one with 1280x720 resolution?

For most people the flickering is not an issue because they don't even see it from a CRT rear projection. The alternate field refresh actually diminishes the perceived flicker effect.

Here's another link on this topic for those interested:
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ISSUES/what_is_ATSC.html

 

[T2k]

This is not false!! 1080i and 1080p yes 1080p is better but It's not like a night day diffrence

It's pretty big difference. 1920x540 versus 1920x1080.
1080i is actually almost the same number of pixels like 720p.

is all I'm saying When is all said and done its how things are broadcast on the other end.

FYI: I'm working partially in the broadcast industry (content creation side). so I can write lengthy essays about how the broadcast side is cheating on you and how 1080i is clearly not 1080i in most cases (see recent Dish downscaling issue).

 

[T2k]

Well I'll just say, unless something is completely wrong with my OTA signals, the 480p from DVDs looks crystal clear to me. The 1080i OTA signals (CBS, WB, NBC) are close behind, while the 720p signals (ABC, Fox) trail further behind. I'll be getting an HD receiver Friday to see how Dish's HD compares.

That's my point: we're talking about various broadcasted signals, so the whole comparison doesn't make any sense.
Unless you have a local, confirmed full-rez 480p, 720p and 1080i source, it's remain apples to oranges...

I have all kind of source here, in my office (we make full feature anim movies for Discovery, web stuff etc etc), that's why I vote for 720p or rather ANY progressive over ANY interlaced on any day.

 

[AndyOI]

That's my point: we're talking about various broadcasted signals, so the whole comparison doesn't make any sense.
Unless you have a local, confirmed full-rez 480p, 720p and 1080i source, it's remain apples to oranges...
I have all kind of source here, in my office (we make full feature anim movies for Discovery, web stuff etc etc), that's why I vote for 720p or rather ANY progressive over ANY interlaced on any day.

Ah I see now. I'm new to this HD stuff as I said. I kind of figured any 480p was the same 480p just as any 720p would be the same 720p.