720P vs. 1080P

[krolmec]

I know DTV broadcasts in 1080I which is equivalent to 720p. My question is:
1. Should I buy a 1080P Tv for $2200 or $1300 for same tv in 720P?
2. Is DTV going to broadcast in 1080P any time soon? Meaning within next few years?
I would hate to shell out another grand for a tv that is of the future. I also rarely watch DVDs. Just seeing what you guys think. Thanks for the help.

 

[charper1]

I know DTV broadcasts in 1080I which is equivalent to 720p.

They are not the same.

1. Should I buy a 1080P Tv for $2200 or $1300 for same tv in 720P?

Get the better bang for the buck, and I would not guess you are looking to spend the extra $1000 right now? save that $1000 and look at the market agian in 3 years. Likely you will want something MUCH BIGGER.

2. Is DTV going to broadcast in 1080P any time soon? Meaning within next few years?

I would doubt any provider will be.

 

[krolmec]

Thanks, that was what I was thinking. Unfortunatley my wife made me buy an armour and the biggest I can go is 40".

 

[Jimbo]

Thanks, that was what I was thinking. Unfortunatley my wife made me buy an armour and the biggest I can go is 40".

There are some nice 40" HDTV's on the market now and I'm sure there will be more later as well.

As Charper was saying :

I know DTV broadcasts in 1080I which is equivalent to 720p. OP wrote

To give you a better idea and try to keep this simple as possible.
with i being Interlaced, you only see half the picture at any one time.
with p being Progressive you see the whole picture at the same time (they use different frame rates)

with that said, a 1080i picture is equivelent to a 540p . thus giving the 720p a better progressive signal to display.

That said, everyone has thier own opinion on this.
Progressive is better for fast action, moving object because you get the whole picture at once. this is why most Sports look better in 720p

1080i is fine for your everyday TV sitcoms and movies.

Jimbo

 

[lou_do]

I am going to guess that it will be a while before anyone D*, E* or cable comes up with anything in 1080p format. It would probably take new receivers, as most of them are currently set up for 1080i & 720p. They maybe software upgradeable to 1080p, but not sure on that. Even if they were upgradeable, it would be a bandwith issue, as we now have with D*, awaiting their two new satellites.

The 1080p would be your ticket if you plan to move up to some of the newer HD DVD players at offer 1080p. I just bought a new 1080p Mitsubishi 57" DLP set, and I will say it when it upconverts the D* HD signal of ESPN, Discovery or HDNet, it really looks good, compared to my 1080i Mitsubishi. We had company over Christmas and we were watching the Heat/Lakers game, and some shows on Discovery. They were amazed with the picture quality. Today they called me up and want me to go with them to get a set like mine.

 

[texasbrit]

There will probably not be 1080p from any satellite or cable provider, or OTA, within the foreseeable future. You can get 1080p from PS3, and from the new hidef DVD players. So most of the time the 1080p TVs are upconverting from 720p or 1080i.

1080i is not equivalent to 540p. The 1080i picture would have double the resolution of a 540p signal (if one existed). An interlaced picture takes every second line and displays it on one vertical "scan" of the TV screen, and then the other lines on the next scan. Because the scans are happening very quickly, the retention of your vision holds the "scan 1" image and merges it with the "scan 2" image so it looks like a solid picture. 720p has less resolution, but displays the lines in sequence one after the other. The theory is that this looks better for sports and other fast-moving action.
Displays that don't use CRTs (plasma, LCD etc) are inherently progressive displays, they convert all signals to their native resolution (may be 720p, maybe 768p, maybe 1080p). In theory a 1080p TV will give you a better picture from an upconverted 1080i signal than would a 720/768p display downconverting a 1080i signal. But I doubt you would see any difference on a 40inch TV........

 

[Jimbo]

There will probably not be 1080p from any satellite or cable provider, or OTA, within the foreseeable future. You can get 1080p from PS3, and from the new hidef DVD players. So most of the time the 1080p TVs are upconverting from 720p or 1080i.

1080i is not equivalent to 540p. The 1080i picture would have double the resolution of a 540p signal (if one existed). An interlaced picture takes every second line and displays it on one vertical "scan" of the TV screen, and then the other lines on the next scan. Because the scans are happening very quickly, the retention of your vision holds the "scan 1" image and merges it with the "scan 2" image so it looks like a solid picture. 720p has less resolution, but displays the lines in sequence one after the other. The theory is that this looks better for sports and other fast-moving action.
Displays that don't use CRTs (plasma, LCD etc) are inherently progressive displays, they convert all signals to their native resolution (may be 720p, maybe 768p, maybe 1080p). In theory a 1080p TV will give you a better picture from an upconverted 1080i signal than would a 720/768p display downconverting a 1080i signal. But I doubt you would see any difference on a 40inch TV........

Note from above :
That said, everyone has thier own opinion on this.

if you made a 1080i picture equal to a progressive (seeing the whole picture at once) yes it would equal a 540p picture.

Just because you cannot see the interlace happening, doesn't mean it isn't happening, at any one time, you will only see half thepicture with interlaced picture. If you could slow it down to the 1/30th and 1/60th you would definatly see the difference.
The interlaced scans the picture and then holds it and adds the other 1/2 and shows you the whole picture.

Jimbo

 

[krolmec]

Thank you for all your input. I think I will go with Samsung 40" LCD 720P for $1400.

 

[JimK2]

1920x1080 (16:9 High Definition; square pixel aspect ratio)

interlaced
29.97 (59.94 fields/s)
30 (60 fields/s)

progressive
23.976
24
29.97
30

 

[88isgreat]

The one thing not stated here, is the programming networks need to invest in equipment to transmit programs in 1080p. Currently, most of your programming is in 720p or 1080i. Until the ESPNs, ABCs, CBSs, etc start broadcasting in 1080p, you can't take full advantage of the tv set resolution. Of course, the cable and satellite companies would also have to upgrade their boxes (as previously stated) to make 1080p available also. Sounds like you made a good choice for your situation. When the networks and providers are all upgraded in 3 to 5 years, you may decide to upgrade your tv then. Of course, maybe by then they'll have a new "standard" for picture resolution!

 

[ronjohn]

if you made a 1080i picture equal to a progressive (seeing the whole picture at once) yes it would equal a 540p picture.

The bitrate would be equal to a 540p bitrate, however the picture has 1080 lines of resolution. The difference is not in the resolution, only how it is updated. Interlaced can cause some distortion for fast moving sequences because you update every other line per scan, not every line. If you take a snapshot, you may see distortion, but there are 1080 lines, not 540.

With that said, I don't think any providers will be providing 1080p content because of bandwith problems. They won't even provide full 1080i content. 1080p would take twice the bandwith as 1080i, so there is not much chance.

 

[Jhon69]

For the biggest screen& the cheapest price check out the CRT RPTV's.Good Luck!:

 

[texasbrit]

I see lots of confusion here about resolution versus Here's a great thread which will either help you or creat even more confusion! http://www.highdefforum.com/showthread.php?t=33372

The key issues are, using perfect equipment which none of us have:
1)1080i broadcasts have better resolution than 720p so they contain more detail. If you had a completely static picture then 1080i would look better.
2) 720p broadcasts can look better than 1080i for fast motion because even though they have less resolution, because they display the lines sequentially the detail in each line matches up better then 1080i because the information in the 1080i lines that are next to each other (vertically) is generated at very slightly different times.
3)There won't be any 1080p content from any of the broadcast providers (OTA, DirecTV etc) in the near future. Even maybe the far future, who knows.
4) HiDef DVD is capable of providing 1080p, as is the PS3.
5) 1080i movies will become true 1080p if the 1080pTV has good deinterlacing and 3:2 pulldown processing, because they are 24fps.
6) 1080p Tvs processing 720p signals will have to upconvert which means they "guess" what's in the missing lines; obviously this degrades the picture somewhat
7) 1080p TVs processing non-movie 1080i content have to deinterlace which for fast motion can create artifacts.

And to complicate it all, the equipment we use is not perfect and the errors that the equipment introduces can make this whole analysis almost irrelevant.

In reality, a 1080p TV fed with a 1080p signal (hidef DVD, or PS3) should give the best picture. A 1080p TV with good interlacing and 3:2 pulldown should give the best picture when fed with a clean 1080i signal from a movie shot in film. A 1080p TV when fed with either a 720p or a 1080i non-film signal should give great results but it isn't true 1080p, and for non-movie content whether 720p or 1080i will be best depends on the source and on the capabilities of the specific TV. The biggest advantage is probably that there are more pixels so you can have a larger screen (or sit closer) without noticing the pixel structure.

 

[Jimbo]

These last 4-5 post (mine included) is what I was trying to avoid, because I knew this thread would get into a discussion about which is better, it hasn't gone quite to which is better but how it's done, and I don't think thats what the OP was looking for.
However it is good discussion and learning for those that are trying to understand this stuff and can keep up with it.

I think both of you already mentioned and I agree, that the standard,if they actually have one, will change again before the providers start broadcasting 1080p.
I see these resolutions going up and getting better and better.
1080p is great for those in the gaming world and HD DVD's, other than that, I would not purposely get a 1080p set.

Jimbo

 

[texasbrit]

Agreed, and I wouldn't buy a 1080p set right now either, unless maybe I was also investing in a hidef DVD and my current TV was faulty - or maybe if I was buying a VERY large TV!!!!!

 

[digiblur]

I know DTV broadcasts in 1080I which is equivalent to 720p. My question is:
1. Should I buy a 1080P Tv for $2200 or $1300 for same tv in 720P?
2. Is DTV going to broadcast in 1080P any time soon? Meaning within next few years?
I would hate to shell out another grand for a tv that is of the future. I also rarely watch DVDs. Just seeing what you guys think. Thanks for the help.

D* can't even bring themselves to broadcast in true 1080i yet, so what makes you think they are going to do the 1080p thing?

 

[texasbrit]

D* can't even bring themselves to broadcast in true 1080i yet, so what makes you think they are going to do the 1080p thing?

FYI the MPEG-4 local HD signals are true 1080i not "hd-lite"

 

[digiblur]

FYI the MPEG-4 local HD signals are true 1080i not "hd-lite"

I'll believe it when I see it...

 

[texasbrit]

I'll believe it when I see it...

Well it's true, at least for now. The DirecTV HD locals here in DFW are just about identical to the same signals OTA, and those who have done measurements say there is no evidence that DirecTV is limiting the bandwidth by reducing the resolution.. Now who knows what they will do once they need to deliver a lot more HD locals, although with DirecTV 10 and 11 next year they do have a whole load of available bandwidth...

 

[Jimbo]

D* can't even bring themselves to broadcast in true 1080i yet, so what makes you think they are going to do the 1080p thing?

Just because a manufacture starts making a 1080p panel, doesn't mean the countries providers are required to change all of thier equipment so they can push 1080p. Local networks are having a hard enough time getting enough money to get on board with HD period.

jimbo