722 OTA Problem on One Channel

[charlesrshell]

Today I lost one OTA channel (CBS channel 4 from St Louis) on two 722s. The error pop-up window is the one that says the off air signal has been lost, signal acquisition is in progress, etc, etc. The same local channel from the satellite and all other OTA local channels work OK. The signal strength for this channel says 100% but it is not working. So, I called the local station in St Louis and the technician said they did lose the OTA signal for a while today but it is restored now. He said to try a re-scan on my equipment. So on one of the 722s I tried a re-scan of the the local channels and it didn't work. I have tried pulling the power to this receiver, check switch test, bypassing the OTA amp, and bypassing the OTA coax splitter and still no luck. So I deleted all the OTA local channels and did a re-scan. When the scan was complete this particular channel did not show back up. All the other OTA local channels did. I checked the other 722 that still had this OTA channel in the guide and the signal strength is still 100% and the channel is still is not working. Tried to call the local TV station technician back but his office is closed for the day. Does anyone have a clue what might be the problem with this OTA channel? There hasn't been a problem with any of the OTA local channels since the Dish system was installed last September. Thanks for any responses.

 

[charlesrshell]

Well, spent more time troubleshooting this morning. Got it fixed. Bottom line, defective OTA antenna pre-amp. Yesterday I bypassed the power supply for the pre-amp and still had the same problem. Got up in the attic this morning and bypassed the pre-amp and the one channel started to work. Why only this one channel didn't work, beats me. I am learning the hard way. Got a new pre-amp and power supply on order.

 

[highdefjeff]

Charlie,

They were obviously doing something at the station but, there is also a problem with OTA and too much signal. Yep. Too much signal can cause pixelation and drop outs or loss of signal just like to little.

What are your signal strengths without the pre-amp? You may not need a replacement unless the loss of pre-amp has made some others unacceptable.

 

[charlesrshell]

Charlie,

They were obviously doing something at the station but, there is also a problem with OTA and too much signal. Yep. Too much signal can cause pixelation and drop outs or loss of signal just like to little.

What are your signal strengths without the pre-amp? You may not need a replacement unless the loss of pre-amp has made some others unacceptable.

Thanks Jeff for the info. Here is a little quick spreadsheet I made up while troubleshooting. I don't have the exact readings with the amp working, but they all read 98 to 100%. I may leave the amp removed since all the signal readings are pretty strong. But, I am going to install it anyway to get the readings. The spreadsheet readings are from the 722s. When I check the readings with the OTA antenna connected direct to the TV, the highest readings were around 86 to 88%. I wonder why those readings are lower than the 722s! See spreadsheet

 

[VegasVoomer]

Charles, thats a sweet little antenna you got. Where'd you get it? I'm thinking of putting one in my attic too.

 

[charlesrshell]

Charles, thats a sweet little antenna you got. Where'd you get it? I'm thinking of putting one in my attic too.

Solid Signal is a good company. I have had several folks tell me that this antenna is a little pricey. They say Channel Master has a better price for about the same type of antenna. This is a UHF antenna only, so far as I know it will just get digital channels. When the big conversion happens, some TV stations may have VHF digital too. So you might want to research it some. Here in the St Louis area, all the channels I want are suppose to stay UHF digital. So that is why I went with UHF. Fits better in my attic too. I think the antenna I have is made by Terrestrial Digital, but Solid Signal calls it Antennas Direct. Anyway, the package it came in called it a Terrestrial DB4. Here is both web sites for you to check out. I liked Channel Master's amps better than Terrestrial, so that is what I used.

Antennas Direct Products | Solid Signal
Terrestrial Digital | Multi-Directional HDTV Antennas
Channel Master CM 7775 Titan2 UHF Preamplifier with Power Supply (CM7775) | CM7775 [Channel Master] | CM 7775 CM-7775 CM7775 antenna booster amplifier pre-amplifier cm777 cm-77
AntennaWeb

 

[charlesrshell]

I think the antenna I have is made by Terrestrial Digital, but Solid Signal calls it Antennas Direct.

VegasVoomer, I just called the Antennas Direct Company in Eureka, MO. Terrestrial Digital and Antennas Direct are the same company now. Here is another web site for you to check out. Has some good info. I think Solid Signal is a good place to order from. I have ordered from them several times.

Antennas Direct | Your TV and HDTV Antenna Source

 

[highdefjeff]

Channel Master has the #4221A UHF 4-bay for 1/3 the price of Antennas directs DB4. Same antenna, great results.

Channel Master CM 4221A 4-Bay Bowtie UHF Antenna (CM4221-A) - CM4221

And still a little cheaper at www.Skywalker.com

 

[VegasVoomer]

Thanks for all the antenna info Charles and Jeff.

 

[highdefjeff]

Thanks Jeff for the info. Here is a little quick spreadsheet I made up while troubleshooting. I don't have the exact readings with the amp working, but they all read 98 to 100%. I may leave the amp removed since all the signal readings are pretty strong. But, I am going to install it anyway to get the readings. The spreadsheet readings are from the 722s. When I check the readings with the OTA antenna connected direct to the TV, the highest readings were around 86 to 88%. I wonder why those readings are lower than the 722s! See spreadsheet

The difference in the signal readings are not different amounts of signal, of course, same antenna, same broadcast. The difference comes in the "non-standardized" signal meters. This is another unfortunate situation due to rapid technological advancement and companies trying to get product to market first. There isn't a standard for what the meter really represents. Some TV's and converter boxes have two readings, one for signal strength, and one for signal quality. Without having a defined scale or standard for signal strength readings they vary quite widely.

Another factor is that when you go direct to the TV, you remove noise and lower signal due to extra cables and components in the receiver that add noise and attenuate the signal.

Lastly, there are small differences in sensitivity of the digital components used that would add a small, probably hard to measure, difference as well.

And to vegasboomer: Always glad to help whenever possible!

 

[charlesrshell]

The difference in the signal readings are not different amounts of signal, of course, same antenna, same broadcast. The difference comes in the "non-standardized" signal meters. This is another unfortunate situation due to rapid technological advancement and companies trying to get product to market first. There isn't a standard for what the meter really represents. Some TV's and converter boxes have two readings, one for signal strength, and one for signal quality. Without having a defined scale or standard for signal strength readings they vary quite widely.

Another factor is that when you go direct to the TV, you remove noise and lower signal due to extra cables and components in the receiver that add noise and attenuate the signal.

Lastly, there are small differences in sensitivity of the digital components used that would add a small, probably hard to measure, difference as well.

And to vegasboomer: Always glad to help whenever possible!

OK, thanks Jeff. Good info. New amp is due in today. I will post again with both readings. This little antenna sure pulls in good. I am average about 25 miles from the TV stations in St Louis and it is mounted in the attic.

 

[caam1]

It sounds like a problem with the stations PSIP data stream. If the the Dish 622/722 series receivers do not detect valid PSIP data, they will not tune the channel even if the signal is 100%. There is a DFW station that neither one of my 622s will tune even though the signal is close to 100%, yet the TV tuner and my old Dish 6000 will tune it without a problem. (all are connected to the same antenna)
The station transmits on channel 46, but the PSIP data would normally map it to 47.1. Apparently their PSIP data is not correct. The TV tuner and the 6000 will tune it on the broadcast channel as 46.1 but the 622s see the bad PSIP data and won't tune it at all. In the five years that I have had OTA digital TV, I have seen the problem with several other channels. The 622/722s are very sensitive to bad PSIP data.

 

[charlesrshell]

It sounds like a problem with the stations PSIP data stream. If the the Dish 622/722 series receivers do not detect valid PSIP data, they will not tune the channel even if the signal is 100%. There is a DFW station that neither one of my 622s will tune even though the signal is close to 100%, yet the TV tuner and my old Dish 6000 will tune it without a problem. (all are connected to the same antenna)
The station transmits on channel 46, but the PSIP data would normally map it to 47.1. Apparently their PSIP data is not correct. The TV tuner and the 6000 will tune it on the broadcast channel as 46.1 but the 622s see the bad PSIP data and won't tune it at all. In the five years that I have had OTA digital TV, I have seen the problem with several other channels. The 622/722s are very sensitive to bad PSIP data.

WOW, thanks caam1, good info. I read in another forum the TV station was down for 24 hours. The station never did return a second call back to me. You know, actually the station just started working before I bypassed the pre-amp. So, I bet it was that data stream problem. When I was having the problem, I connected the antenna direct to the TV and it would not pick up on the channel when I performed the scan. Same thing happened on the 722 that I deleted the locals, it would not discover the channel when I did the scan. However, when I checked the 722 that I did not delete the local channels, the signal was 100%, but yet it was not working. I needed to get a new amp anyway because I had messed up one of the coax ports on the power supply several months ago. What is PSIP and what does the initials stand for? Thanks again.

 

[charlesrshell]

It sounds like a problem with the stations PSIP data stream. If the the Dish 622/722 series receivers do not detect valid PSIP data, they will not tune the channel even if the signal is 100%. There is a DFW station that neither one of my 622s will tune even though the signal is close to 100%, yet the TV tuner and my old Dish 6000 will tune it without a problem. (all are connected to the same antenna)
The station transmits on channel 46, but the PSIP data would normally map it to 47.1. Apparently their PSIP data is not correct. The TV tuner and the 6000 will tune it on the broadcast channel as 46.1 but the 622s see the bad PSIP data and won't tune it at all. In the five years that I have had OTA digital TV, I have seen the problem with several other channels. The 622/722s are very sensitive to bad PSIP data.

caam1, I did a Google search and learned more what Program and System Information Protocol (PSIP) is. You have a very good point that there might have been a PSIP data problem from the OTA TV station for that one channel that I could not receive. I was experiencing the same thing that happens to you, when I was not receiving a picture the signal strength was reading 100%. Thanks again for your input.

 

[charlesrshell]

OK, thanks Jeff. Good info. New amp is due in today. I will post again with both readings. This little antenna sure pulls in good. I am average about 25 miles from the TV stations in St Louis and it is mounted in the attic.

Jeff, got the new pre-amp installed. I now believe I did not have a pre-amp problem (see post #14). But, I had to change out the power supply to the pre-amp anyway because I broke a coax port on it. The attached spreadsheet has listed the latest signal strengths I am receiving from the OTA antenna. Channel 8 I think comes in on a repeater antenna and it is not working too good today. The readings are both with and without the OTA antenna pre-amp in the system from two 722s and with the OTA antenna connected direct to a digital TV. I have the OTA connected direct to the digital TV with an A/B switch. On "A" is modulated in signal from two Dish DVRs and on "B" is the OTA antenna signal. I have this A/B switch installed in case the DVR becomes inoperative and complete satellite signal lose during thunderstorms. I can punch the A/B switch and receive local channels from the OTA antenna.

 

[ferl]

I've lost 9-1 on a 722 I installed 1 week ago. When I installed the 722 a scan found all of the local stations. Now it indicates a loss of signal only on the PBS station. 9-1 comes in fine on a 622 in a different room and 9-1 is fine using the tuner on the tv the 722 is connected to. I haven't tried to correct this issue yet. I thought I'd look around here first. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[charlesrshell]

I've lost 9-1 on a 722 I installed 1 week ago. When I installed the 722 a scan found all of the local stations. Now it indicates a loss of signal only on the PBS station. 9-1 comes in fine on a 622 in a different room and 9-1 is fine using the tuner on the tv the 722 is connected to. I haven't tried to correct this issue yet. I thought I'd look around here first. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

I would try reseting the 722 and see if that helps. If not, try a rescan of the locals again.

 

[ferl]

I would try reseting the 722 and see if that helps. If not, try a rescan of the locals again.

Thanks, I unplugged the tuner instead of a warm reboot and all is well. Was that what you meant by reseting?

 

[charlesrshell]

Yes that would work. Read this http://www.nohold.net/noHoldCust61/...ame=Chat&routename=Phone&routename=TechPortal

So are all your OTA channels working OK now on your 722?

 

[Drone35]

I too had OTA problems on my new vip722, I was only getting 7 channels when I did a channel scan! My other receivers vip622 and 2 vip612'2 were getting 12. I changed everything from cables to soft reboot to hard reboot and nothing made any difference! I did find the problem though and some of u may be having the same problem! I checked my HD setting and I had it set on cable , this needs to be set on OFF AIR! I did this and wa'la all 12 were back so check ur HD setting if ur having trouble getting some of ur OTA locals! Hope this helps!!