About time Voom said something

I've been thinking about this very topic all morning (all week actually), as surfing the EPG, and not being able to land on a Voom channel, sucks!

This is how I see it...

1. E* agreed to carry the Voom channels for 15 years.
2. E* agreed to pay Voom $x per subscriber.
3. Voom agreed to spend $x per year on programming up to $x amount.
4. E* moves Voom to a package that has less subscribers, thus allowing E* to pay Voom less.
5. Voom files a lawsuit.
6. E* counters that Voom is not spending required amount on programming.
7. Voom loses lawsuit.
8. E* removes 10 channels, then removes remaining 5 channels 24 hours later.

Has whether Voom has been spending the required amount per year been settled in court? Or is it only the issue of moving Voom to a less subscribed package that has been settled?

It seems to me that E* has to continue to pay Voom a per-subscriber fee for the number of dishHD Ultimate subscribers whether E* is airing the channels or not.

I would love it if a lawyer who is at least familiar with the terms of the original carriage agreement could weigh in on this, because unless E* can prove (or has already proven) that they can cancel their contract with Voom, I dont think this is over with yet. (at least the legal/financial wrangling).
 
I just called to Dish and to my surprise, the CSR told me they have received an overwhelming number of calls from customers upset about the removal of the Voom Channels. The person said that Dish was seroiusly reviewing this issue and they were documenting each call.

So if you are upset by the removal of the Voom channels, CALL DISH and complain!!!

If this is true sure wish they would have taken some hint everytime I called about my locals not being in HD........LOL
 
what was the movied quote where the person was typing what the other person was saying and they died in the middle of it...and he typed agghhhh (death sound) I want to say something monty python.


Monty Python and the Holy Grail. The translator was reading old writing on a cave wall. "It is in the castle arghhhhhhhhh!"

One of my favorite movies.
 
Usually contract terms are trade secrets which only the lawyers and the judge know.

In this case the details of the agreement are already wide open. VOOM must fulfill their spending obligation too, if not DISH can terminate the contract. DISH did an audit in January and confirmed VOOM did not meet their end of bargain by a big margin, DISH had since reacted to such finding by downgrading VOOM, and when VOOM went to court for DISH's action, asked the judge for a preliminary injunction to stop DISH, the judge refused, after looking at the information from both sides.

That I think led to DISH's latest bold move.
 
Has whether Voom has been spending the required amount per year been settled in court? Or is it only the issue of moving Voom to a less subscribed package that has been settled?

It seems to me that E* has to continue to pay Voom a per-subscriber fee for the number of dishHD Ultimate subscribers whether E* is airing the channels or not.

I would love it if a lawyer who is at least familiar with the terms of the original carriage agreement could weigh in on this, because unless E* can prove (or has already proven) that they can cancel their contract with Voom, I dont think this is over with yet. (at least the legal/financial wrangling).

As I recall, there was an audit performed by DISH that showed they hadn't, and it seems like VOOM's defense was "Well, no, we didn't, but it doesn't matter because we..." and then had some excuse I didn't understand. Something to do with their definition of "per year". An any case, the recent ruling pretty much said..."no, they didn't."

As for your second sentence- well, I don't get what you mean. The ruling has said that DISH were welcome to cancel their contract. If there's no contract...

And as for part 3...I'm sure the details of the original contract aren't public, though I saw something earlier today that mentioned that DISH was paying them $3.50 a customer to start, increasing to $6 and change. In any case, DISH said they had the right to cancel the contract, Voom filed an injunction, court ruled against Voom. Pretty straightforward.

However, you're right...nothing's ever really DONE when it comes to legal stuff.

If Scott's rumor was true, it could be good in the end. You'd think Voom would rather stay on the air in some form rather than just die. Right now, they are still in pissing-match mode. But Voom doesn't have much leverage here.
 
I've been thinking about this very topic all morning (all week actually), as surfing the EPG, and not being able to land on a Voom channel, sucks!

This is how I see it...

1. E* agreed to carry the Voom channels for 15 years.
2. E* agreed to pay Voom $x per subscriber.
3. Voom agreed to spend $x per year on programming up to $x amount.
4. E* moves Voom to a package that has less subscribers, thus allowing E* to pay Voom less.
5. Voom files a lawsuit.
6. E* counters that Voom is not spending required amount on programming.
7. Voom loses lawsuit.
8. E* removes 10 channels, then removes remaining 5 channels 24 hours later.

Has whether Voom has been spending the required amount per year been settled in court? Or is it only the issue of moving Voom to a less subscribed package that has been settled?

It seems to me that E* has to continue to pay Voom a per-subscriber fee for the number of dishHD Ultimate subscribers whether E* is airing the channels or not.

I would love it if a lawyer who is at least familiar with the terms of the original carriage agreement could weigh in on this, because unless E* can prove (or has already proven) that they can cancel their contract with Voom, I dont think this is over with yet. (at least the legal/financial wrangling).


this will probably play itself out in court and or in negotiations between the parties. But what DISH is alleging is that they had an obligation to pay VOOM and VOOM had an obligation to provide the service and to makea specified investment in the programming.

If VOOM really did fail to make that investment then DISH could plausibly claim that that VOOM breached the contract.

having said all taht here are certain facts we cannot verify----anfd the parties are under no obligation to let us see the carriage agreement. We are all speculating.
 
As much as I support Voom and want to see them back I agree that they should cut their package to the 6-7 best channels and make those channels great. 15 is just too much with little capacity that cable/sat has. Leave Monsters alone though.
 
My understanding is that Dish's complaint against Voom has not been legally determined. The case has not been tried. The judge just refused to issue a preliminary injunction preventing Dish from tiering Voom or getting rid of them altogether. A preliminary injunction can only be granted if the part seeking the injunction has a substantial likelihood of winning on the merits, so the judge seems to think that Voom won't win. However, if Voom does win (in either showing that it did not breach, or that the contract's cure provisions contorl) they would be entitled to damages from Dish (since Dish will have been the party that breached by tiering and/or removing Voom).

Given the result of the NDS trial, this may be all the more reason for Dish to settle with Voom and restore the channels in some form.
 
maybe its a sign of Vooms Future....someone was dictating what they were saying as the channels were getting pulled and they were dying thats why the Paragraph on that page was never finished :(
 
Again the details of the agreement is wide open now. VOOM missed their end of agreement by a large margin in DISH's audit.

Perhaps. But there is so much info we do not have that it is hard for us to say much with certainty. After all we don't know how fair or accurate the audit was , whether vOOM has rectified the situation, etc.

Not saying DISH will not "win" this. Or that VOOM will not. just expalining what DISH is claiming and why they might not have to pay VOOM.
 
I've been thinking about this very topic all morning (all week actually), as surfing the EPG, and not being able to land on a Voom channel, sucks!

This is how I see it...

1. E* agreed to carry the Voom channels for 15 years.
2. E* agreed to pay Voom $x per subscriber.
3. Voom agreed to spend $x per year on programming up to $x amount.
4. E* moves Voom to a package that has less subscribers, thus allowing E* to pay Voom less.
5. Voom files a lawsuit.
6. E* counters that Voom is not spending required amount on programming.
7. Voom loses lawsuit.
8. E* removes 10 channels, then removes remaining 5 channels 24 hours later.

Has whether Voom has been spending the required amount per year been settled in court? Or is it only the issue of moving Voom to a less subscribed package that has been settled?

It seems to me that E* has to continue to pay Voom a per-subscriber fee for the number of dishHD Ultimate subscribers whether E* is airing the channels or not.

I would love it if a lawyer who is at least familiar with the terms of the original carriage agreement could weigh in on this, because unless E* can prove (or has already proven) that they can cancel their contract with Voom, I dont think this is over with yet. (at least the legal/financial wrangling).
Regarding #7 Rainbow Media (aka VOOM) only lost a temporary injunction to prevent EchoStar (aka Dish Network) from pulling the VOOM HD Network channels. Whether EchoStar violated the affiliate agreement is still being contested. Althought Dish Network terminated the affiliate agreement, I doubt you will see either party disclose its contents pending litigation. I posted the following elsewhere, but it certainly needs to be reposted over here: (first paragraph of two was about Dish Network losing their lawsuite against News Corp (aka DirecTV/NDS).

This is somewhat surprising based on what the judge said early into the trial, "the case could be worth more than $1 billion." It certainly looked liked E* would be getting $200 million or more in damanges. I guess the jury members were former/current Dish Network customers bitter about having their CourtTV, Lifetime, distant locals and VOOM channels yanked from their lineup without warning, as well as paying for HD only to receive HD-Lite.:p

I guess E* will be having to pay TiVo $150 million out of their own pocket soon...not to mention facing additional litigation by TiVo with DirecTV (owners of ReplayTV) joining the suite. Charlie could be in for a VOOMin'.

Speaking of VOOM and billion dollar litigation...Rainbow Media (aka VOOM HD Networks) could potentially receive a huge payday if EchoStar is found to have broken their affiliate agreement with VOOM in violation of cure provisions. Based on their past performances in court, I would not put my money on the E* litigation team. VOOM may have lost the the preliminary injunction to keep the channel on Dish Network, but that doesn't mean they won't beat EchoStar in front of a jury.

"The Voom-EchoStar 2005 carriage deal, which Voom described as a “multi-billion dollar, 15-year contract,” called for EchoStar to pay a subscriber fee of $3.25 a month per HD customer in the first year of deal, with annual increases until it reached $6.43 a month in the pact’s final year."

- EchoStar claims VOOM did not meet the $100 million spending limit; VOOM claims they did.
- EchoStar claims they can terminate the affiliation agreement for VOOM breaching the Spending Limit; VOOM says even if they did breach the Spending Limit, there are "Cure Provisions" in the affiliation agreement to remedy the situation.

Additionally, by my records VOOM was supposed to be a 21 channel package. Wasn't it EchoStar who limited it to only 15 channels? If so, were there provisions in the affiliation agreement to address this? Does someone have old "Charlie Chat" footage where he mentioned his decision to scale back or keep VOOM HD at 15 channels? Lot's of interested stuff regarding this case...

In April 2005, subsidiaries of Cablevision and CSC Holdings entered into agreements with EchoStar Communications Corporation (?EchoStar?) relating to the launch and operation of the business of Rainbow HD Holdings, LLC, the Company?s VOOM 21 high-definition television programming service. Under those arrangements, EchoStar will initially distribute a portion of the Rainbow HD programming service and, beginning in 2006, if the contemplated transactions have been completed, will carry all 21 of the channels included in the Rainbow HD programming service. In connection with the arrangements, EchoStar would be issued a 20% interest in Rainbow HD Holdings, the Company.

May 12, 2005
Cablevision has agreed to spend at least $100 million per year to fund the 21 high-definition channels that are all that's left of the failed Voom satellite TV service. The commitment was disclosed in a quarterly financial filing by Cablevision Systems Corp., which shut the Voom service April 30 but decided to keep operating the channels and pitching them for cable and satellite TV providers to carry. The spending minimum, which is capped at $500 million, is part of a 15-year deal under which EchoStar Communications will offer the channels to its Dish Network customers. EchoStar gets a 20-percent stake in those channels under the deal, the filing disclosed. If Cablevision reduces the number of HD channels, it can cut the spending to as low as $38 million per year. If it falls short of the minimums, EchoStar can drop the channels.

"It's an awful lot of money for Cablevision to continue to spend for these networks," said Craig Moffett, an analyst at investment firm Sanford C. Bernstein & Co. Cablevision has said it invested about $1 billion in Voom, which attracted only 48,000 customers. It estimates the shutdown will cost as much as an additional $155 million, plus $45.8 million for settling liabilities.

Voom's sole satellite is being sold to EchoStar for $200 million.
Copyright 2005 Newsday Inc.
 

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My understanding is that Dish's complaint against Voom has not been legally determined. The case has not been tried. The judge just refused to issue a preliminary injunction preventing Dish from tiering Voom or getting rid of them altogether. A preliminary injunction can only be granted if the part seeking the injunction has a substantial likelihood of winning on the merits, so the judge seems to think that Voom won't win. However, if Voom does win (in either showing that it did not breach, or that the contract's cure provisions contorl) they would be entitled to damages from Dish (since Dish will have been the party that breached by tiering and/or removing Voom).

Given the result of the NDS trial, this may be all the more reason for Dish to settle with Voom and restore the channels in some form.

Either way, Dish is reeling and I am personally laughing my ass off. Subscribers are dropping, I would assume defectors are increasing now as well, and they have so many lawsuits going on that it's almost comical. It also sounds like they extremely underestimated how many people would be upset about the removal of Voom and the subsequent bombardment of calls and emails about the matter. :cool::up

Bad karma...You reap what you sew, Dish.
 
You know I had D* for 4 years and left mainly because of E* having Voom. I sat and watched D* get more and more hd and also my locals in hd. I never thought about leaving. E* still doesn't have my hd locals. With the crap that is going down now I am seriously looking at other options. Shame really as I don't want to leave but I am not that interested in E* anymore. I hope E* and V* can fix this quickly.
 

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