Advice on 119 Low Odd, No Even

[McCartyRL]

I have a Dish 500 System. I live in an area with lots of trees and I suspect my problem is related to that. I found the forums over the weekend. I've been reading up to get an idea of how to diagnose my issue. I've learned a
great deal about satellite TV.

During the winter months, I get signal strength of 108 on both the 110 & 119 satellites. Starting around 2-weeks ago, 119 reception began to "Drop-Out".
First on windy days, now it's consistant.

I have 3 receivers and all of them show the same identical signal strengths.

If I check signal strength, I'm getting around 40+ on 119 Odd transponders, but Zero on all the even. I've checked the dish mast and it's stead and even. The only loose thing about the dish was the screw that holds the LBFN (?) onto its arm. (Which I tightened, slightly).

I have called in a Dish Service call, but they cannot get to me for around a week to do a check.

After reading other postings, I understand that 119 is lower in elevation than 110. I've found a few oak branches in the line of site that may be my problem.
If I stand behind the dish, and look to the sky, to the left and slightly down is a single branch that appears to be in the way.

I did cover the LNBF's to verify my reception on 110 is from the left facing the dish.

As of yet, I haven't checked the connectors for corrosion or some of the other suggestions on the forum. I don't want to make the situation worse.

Can anyone advise me on what to try or how to diagnose this a little more precisely ? I've trimmed other branches away, and don't really want to climb up that oak to cut away that one branch until I can verify it's causing my problem. I'm assuming this is tree related, since in the Winter I don't have any problems with either 110 or 119.

Thanks for any advise you can give.

 

[mkm4]

If I check signal strength, I'm getting around 40+ on 119 Odd transponders, but Zero on all the even. I've checked the dish mast and it's stead and even. The only loose thing about the dish was the screw that holds the LBFN (?) onto its arm. (Which I tightened, slightly).

Thanks for any advise you can give.

119 uses spot beams. The zero strength signals are from transponders that you can't see.

 

[SimpleSimon]

Yes, this is the time of year for trees to hurt us, but mkm4 may have a point. Use tp #11 to test. The 40 you're quoting is on the low side - I'm hoping that's why.

Sometimes even tp failures have other reasons - please reply with signal strengths on tp 119-11 & 12 and 110-11 & 12. All 4 should be about even.

Where are you? That's important sometimes.
What type of Dish 500 do you have (Legacy or DishPro)? In other words does your LNBF have a DP logo on it? Are there 2 LNBFs (a dual setup with switches) or is it a Twin or Quad? What kind of receiver do you have?

Not all of this information is critical, but can save time in future replies.

 

[McCartyRL]

Follow Up

I live just outside Raleigh, North Carolina.

On 110, TP 11 & 12 I get 110, 107
On 119, TP 11 & 12 I get 41, 0
(Levels are common on all 3 receivers)

I believe I have a Legacy Dish, my neighbor has a DishPro which has the Pro label in the dish. Yes, My setup has two LNBF's. I covered them one at a time to verify which handles 110 and 119.

I have 3 receivers all are Dish Pro 301's.

I spent the better part of today reading up, and learned how LNBF's are reversed, as far as line of sight. I was looking on the wrong side of the dish to locate the tree blockage (If that's what it is). I used some tools on the net to map where 110 & 119 are in relation to my dish. Using a compass I have a better idea where the signals are located in the sky. My mast and dish are tightly connected and I haven't attempted to change any of the
orientation settings. I did remove the cables from the connectors and use
a battery brush to burnish off the copper center conductor.

This problem also started when our tempretures started into the mid 90's. I read a few postings about "Thermal" problems with some LNBF's. I haven't checked to see if mine is one of those Serial #'s that have the problem.

Thanks for the help.
Randall

 

[SimpleSimon]

Is it convienent for you to swap the 2 LNBFs and see if the problem moves?

You can also check for the S/N of the defective unit at that time - if I remember right, you're in the part of the country where they came out - but I'm not sure.

 

[McCartyRL]

Switching LNBF's

If it only involves removing the housing and switching the two units, I believe I can handle that. Just a question, as I'm new at this Satellite "Shade Tree mechanics".

Does each cone (White circular assembly) represent an LNBF or is the whole assembly considered one LNBF.

Since I'm asking here is another one that I can't find an easy answer. The switch, is that actually built into the unit or located elsewhere.

Thanks Again

 

[SimpleSimon]

If it only involves removing the housing and switching the two units, I believe I can handle that. Just a question, as I'm new at this Satellite "Shade Tree mechanics".

Does each cone (White circular assembly) represent an LNBF or is the whole assembly considered one LNBF.

Since I'm asking here is another one that I can't find an easy answer. The switch, is that actually built into the unit or located elsewhere.

Thanks Again

Try looking at this page to see what you've got, and let us know.

 

[McCartyRL]

LNB Info

I removed the LNBF and found Part Number 214-5100-454. After looking at the vendor site - it has 4-outputs, so it's either a DishPro Quad or a Legacy Quad. I'm trying to cross reference that P/N and verify it.

 

[SimpleSimon]

I don't know the part numbers, but if it looks like a Twin, it's either that or a Quad - Twin has 2 connectors, Quad has 4. Either of them are 2 LNBFs in one housing, and you can't swap them.

Just thought of something - you say you have 3 receivers, and you ask about a switch. You either have a Quad (switch is built-in), or there's a box somewhere in-between. Which is it?

If there's an extra box, let's find out what kind it is - some need external power. Others just need power on Port #1 (ie they don't work unless that receiver is turned on).

Anyway, next step is to check the Skew on the Dish - maybe it got whacked somehow. At this point I'm just looking for anything other than a bad LNBF.

 

[McCartyRL]

Type of Equipment

I just pulled the original Dish Service order.

It says 1-Quad LNBF, so I believe it is a Legacy.
The receiver identifies the Switch as a 500 Quad
Also on the equipment list, it quotes 2-Diplexors (Sp?)

I'll have to go under the house, As I seem to remember the installer said
something about adjusting the switch and complaining about having to crawl back under the house again.

I took the LNBF housing off and Switched the outputs around from 1,2,3 to
3,2,1. After replacing and locking down, now 119 TP 11 responds with
Wrong Sat - EchoStar 110 West. I assume that means the alignment is off.

 

[SimpleSimon]

Diplexers are used to 'share' a cable between Satellite and either OTA antenna signals, or to send a receiver's output to another room (usually 322/522 receivers).

If in fact you've got diplexers, they can be a source of bad connections. Diplexers look like splitters (but they're not!).

Did you run a Check Switch after swapping the outputs?
What signal strength did you get on the 'wrong sat'? Was it good?

 

[McCartyRL]

Diplexers

Makes perfect sense, I asked them to run one additional line to a spare bedroom but it was split from another receiver. I removed that some time back as we never got around to putting a TV in that room.

Yes, but the Dish Networks tech told me on the phone to NOT run a switch test unless both satellites are being received at 70 or greater. Anyway, I ran the test and 119 did not show up at all (X'd out). But when I check signal strength on 119 TP 11 it shows 109 but in Red says "Wrong Sat - EchoStar 110 West.

Thanks again for all the info - learning quite a bit.

 

[SimpleSimon]

OK. We've got a Quad that's not awake.

Disconnect all cables from the LNBF (at either end) except for Port #1 (the leftmost of the 4 while looking at them). Go to the receiver that's on Port #1. Disconnect it. Pull the power plug. Power it up (this resets it's switch matrix). Hook the satellite feed cable up. It should be giving you 119 (Port #2 has 110 on it at this point in time).

If you're getting 119, run Check Switch and life should be good.

If NO 119 (still showing 110), the dish is probably misaligned (no idea how this would happen). You might try a Check Switch and ensure that 110 is coming in on the right-hand side of the table it displays. If so, maybe we've got that tree in the way.

Oh, BTW, sorry about my missing your saying you had a Quad back around Post #9.

 

[Chuckster]

MCCarty, if you are having the same problem on all 3 receivers, then more than likely it is not a diplexor or line problem. I would guess it is your dish alignment or the quad LNB.

Di you check switch all of the receivers or just one after you switched the outputs?

 

[McCartyRL]

Some success

I went out to the dish (before it got dark) and tightened all the connections.

When I came back to check, on 119 Spotbeam 07, I'm now getting 55 and a signal lock. I haven't checked all the other transponders. I'm still not able to view any 119 content, but now the switch test passes on all 3 receivers.

I wouldn't think just tightening the screws would help, but it seemed to bring it back in alignment better than before. I guess a small mechanical adjustment equates to a pretty good change in the axis on the dish ?

 

[SimpleSimon]

Yes, sometimes a tiny knudge on the dish can make all the difference.

I believe you mean spotbeam #14 (although the receiver doesn't say that) on tp 119-7.
Check this out: http://ekb.dbstalk.com/pictures/echo7.gif

Try 119-11 & 12 and 110-11 & 12 again and let us know.

 

[McCartyRL]

Updated Info

Thanks for the information on Spotbeam, I understand now how Dish sends local content.

I tested the signal strengths again this morning. 110 still delivers 100+ on both 11 and 12 transponders. 119 stuggles to get to 45 and the signal lock varies, as it peaks at around 48 but then just as sudden drops back to zero.
(We are having a typical summer breeze, but the signal jumps don't appear to
synchronize with the wind gusts.)

I talked to Dish Networks again today. This time, I drew a very helpful lady who pushed up my scheduled service by a few days). I would really like to resolve it myself & appreciate your stepping me through these diagnostic steps.

 

[SimpleSimon]

I'm in a rush at the moment. Have NOT reviewed what we've talked about before.

A thought just hit me - could the 'skew' have slipped? Depending on where you are, the angle difference between the 2 satellites can be significant.

If you have a helper that can watch the signal strength screen for you, try knudging the dish in a clockwise/counter-clockwise manner - in other words, 'rotating' the LNB a bit - just a bit - and see if you get any reaction.

Sorry - not thinking it through, but something to chew on. Gotta go for a few hours - maybe some other help out there?

 

[McCartyRL]

Success (For Now)

I took your advice - Finally got up enough confidence to actually move the alignment settings. Skew didn't seem to help that much. However, when I adjusted the Elevation (just slightly higher) 119 TP# 10 came up to 56. When I checked the receivers, I can now receive all the 119 signals. I know that 56 is probably extremely poor, but for now I'm back on line.

Thanks alot for the help - I'm still probably going to investiage moving the dish permanently to a location with less tree coverage.

 

[SimpleSimon]

I took your advice - Finally got up enough confidence to actually move the alignment settings. Skew didn't seem to help that much. However, when I adjusted the Elevation (just slightly higher) 119 TP# 10 came up to 56. When I checked the receivers, I can now receive all the 119 signals. I know that 56 is probably extremely poor, but for now I'm back on line.

Thanks alot for the help - I'm still probably going to investiage moving the dish permanently to a location with less tree coverage.

Multi-LNB dish aiming is a combination of all 3 factors (azimuth, elevation and skew). You might want to concentrate on 119 - but tp# 11 and higher instead of 10. If you can get a higher signal on 119 by knudging the dish around, then you know you can get the rest in by reviewing the correct numbers from Point Dish screen. If 119 is good, but 110 has fallen off, you're probably back to a skew that's a touch off. Or elevation. Or azimuth.

It's a pain, but once you're sure you've got clear Line Of Sight, the rest can be done with patience.