Aggrevatingly ellusive answer to a simple question

G

grifter5k

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May 5, 2004
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"read, read, read 'til your eyes bleed" done that and still can't quite figure it out on my own. :)

I want to get the best signal possible from 110 and 119 with a single dish. No built in switches, no fat or twin LNBs. What is the best configuration?

Specifically:
Do I have to use an oval dish?

Should I/can I use one of the larger round dishes like 20", 24", etc?

Are all antenna brands pretty much the same (Dish Network, Winegard, Channel Master, Kaul-Tronics, etc.)?

How do you select a good LNB?

OK, I guess that's more than one question. But the answers are probably simple for folks that have been playing around with this stuff for a while.
 
M

Mr Tony

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Nov 17, 2003
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grifter5k said:
I want to get the best signal possible from 110 and 119 with a single dish. No built in switches, no fat or twin LNBs. What is the best configuration?
You cannot get both 110 & 119 off one LNB unless its a Twin or Quad

Specifically:
Do I have to use an oval dish?
no. but most dishes are oval

Should I/can I use one of the larger round dishes like 20", 24", etc?
you could...it would help rain fade

Are all antenna brands pretty much the same (Dish Network, Winegard, Channel Master, Kaul-Tronics, etc.)?
pretty much


If what I understand what you are asking, you want to get both 110 & 119 off one LNB, but it can't be a Twin...That isnt possible.
 
gpflepsen

gpflepsen

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Sep 8, 2003
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If you are continental USA, just use a Dish 500. Any combo of LNBs will work, but you may want to get DishPros. A dishpro quad will feed 1-4 TVs without switches.

Why the aversion to an oval dish?
 
G

grifter5k

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May 5, 2004
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I knew 2 LNBs were required. I just don't want anything with a built-in switch. Keeping my options open to use the dish with FTA or DirectTv in the future. Haphazard poking around seemed to indicate that some FTA receivers wanted a DiSEqC switch and wouldn't work with an sw21 in the way (not sure about sw21 with DirecTv either). As long as all the switches are external, I can swap as needed. My (feeble) understanding of a twin LNB is that it's basically 2 LNBs with an itegrated switch.

I have no aversion to an oval dish at all. I was just having trouble figuring out on my own if there was any advantage to a larger round dish vs a standard oval dish. The issue that seemed to come up the most was rain fade.

So I was leaning toward the large round dish approach, but when shopping around, I seldom (actually never) see a large round dish configured for two LNBs. It looks to me like if I want to go this route I need to buy just the dish, get a Y-adapter for the arm, and then pick up 2 LNBs. There was/is some doubt in my mind that this would actually work (but like any big kid, I want to do it anyway).

I don't have all the necessary pieces to experiment on my own. Plus it's not easy for me to throw up a dish to play with (my only line of site is from the top of a two story building). Wish I could, I'd much rather learn by doing :)

Thanks for the feedback.
 
M

Mr Tony

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Nov 17, 2003
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OK...now it makes sense..that little more info cleared it up for us :D

anything larger than the Dish500 doesnt have a skew to turn the dish, so unless you are going to jerry-rig it, slapping a "Y" adapter on a 24 or 30" dish to get both won't work. For 110 & 119, I have no clue where in the US they are almost the same level, so no skewing would be neccessary. In MN, ExpressVu is real close (I think skew is -3, but I left it at 90)

Best option then would be a Dish500 and 2 DUAL LNB's. One would be for 110 and one would be for 119. You can connect them externally with a SW21 for one receiver and the other can be used for FTA (Thats what I'm doing with my ExpressVu system....line from 82 and 91 to a SW21 to the receiver...2nd output to a FTA via DiSEqC switch).
 
G

grifter5k

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May 5, 2004
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Thanks Iceberg (and everyone else that took time to reply). That's exactly the info I was looking for. I just knew I had to be missing something and skew was it. I still don't grok the geometry of satellite location/geographic location/dish configuration and I would never have known that the larger dishes lacked skew adjustment until i had that puppy in my hot little hands. :D Sorry my initial post was so poorly worded.
 
bcshields

bcshields

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You can do it with Dishpro too.. 2 DPDuals, 2 DP21 switches, or 2 DPSingles and a SW34.. which will leave you open for a 3rd sat with minimum add on (just another dish and a DPSingle)
 
E

El_Cu_Guy

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May 6, 2004
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You cannot get both 110 & 119 off one LNB unless its a Twin or Quad

You can use two singles or duals or a combination of the two (you'll need a Y-bracket of course). Tie them together with either a SW21 or a DP21 (you will need to use a DP21 if the LNBfs are Dish Pro).

no. but most dishes are oval

The older Dish300 dishes are round. The newer ones are oval. Oval dishes will allow you to receive a better signal as the signal footprint is at the top 1/3 or the dish (not the center like most think).

you could...it would help rain fade

Rain fade with a 20" dish!?! The Dish500 IS a 20" dish. We use 24" dishes for commercial installs. They don't skew so they require multi-dishes. The larger dishes (ie 32") are SuperDishes. Unless you live in any area that you would need a second satellite to receive locals or live way out there a SuperDish isn't necessary.

Are all antenna brands pretty much the same (Dish Network, Winegard, Channel Master, Kaul-Tronics, etc.)?

I work for Echostar/ DNSC. Winegard makes our dishes (actually they're antennas). They are branded and are of a higher quality than what you'll pick up from Radio Shack.



If what I understand what you are asking, you want to get both 110 & 119 off one LNB, but it can't be a Twin...That isnt possible.

It's possible but you'll need switches.

Any combo of LNBs will work, but you may want to get DishPros.

WRONG. DishPro LNBfs cannot be used in combination with legacy LNBfs. You must use DishPro switches if you use DishPro LNBfs. You must also consider what type of receivers you are using. If you are using legacy receivers you must use legacy LNBfs or purchase an inverter. Legacy receivers will not see DishPro LNBfs or switches.

grifter5k --

So you don't want to use a twin because you may want to switch to DirectTV? You can either replace the dish and use the same mount or replace the Y-bracket with a single and set skew to 90.

DirectTV doesn't own any of their own satellites. They lease space/programming from 119 and 101. 119 is owned by Echostar, the parent company of Dish Network. Just aim the dish more towards 119 and your signal will be screaming.

Trust me, I do so many conversions (DirectTV to Dish and back if the customer is stupid and for some reason decides to stick with DirectTV) as a Dish Network Service Corporation (DNSC) Techinician.
 
bcshields

bcshields

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El_Cu_Guy said:
I work for Echostar/ DNSC. Winegard makes our dishes (actually they're antennas).

Ah, that explains it. BTW, they're called reflectors. Antennas pick up UHF/VHF.

I was going to flame you, but I'll be nice, relax, man. You never know who's watching what you write. Also.. be careful you don't disclose anything considered confidential.

No need to impress. Just relax, kick back, join in a thread and add a comment or two.
 
M

Mr Tony

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Nov 17, 2003
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El cu

Did you bother to read the thread???

The original post it sounded like they wanted to get both 110 & 119 off one LNB without switches, which is not possible. Then he explained what he was doing (thinking of hooking up a FTA receiver) and all of his questions were answered.

no. but most dishes are oval

The older Dish300 dishes are round. The newer ones are oval. Oval dishes will allow you to receive a better signal as the signal footprint is at the top 1/3 or the dish (not the center like most think).

my responce says "most dishes are oval

If what I understand what you are asking, you want to get both 110 & 119 off one LNB, but it can't be a Twin...That isnt possible.


It's possible but you'll need switches.
please tell me how I can get both 110 & 119 off ONE LNB, and it cant be a Twin or Quad...a Dual will only get one satellite, not two. Thats what the original question was.

So you don't want to use a twin because you may want to switch to DirectTV? You can either replace the dish and use the same mount or replace the Y-bracket with a single and set skew to 90.

he never said about going to Direct. He wants to use a FTA receiver in conjunction with his Dish system


There...I'm done...:D
 
M

Mr Tony

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Nov 17, 2003
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I wasnt
I have read through most of his posts and they are full of misinformation....
 
E

El_Cu_Guy

Member
May 6, 2004
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0
please tell me how I can get both 110 & 119 off ONE LNB, and it cant be a Twin or Quad...a Dual will only get one satellite, not two. Thats what the original question was.

He'll need another dual damn. Read the rest of the post and you'll pick up on that.

he never said about going to Direct. He wants to use a FTA receiver in conjunction with his Dish system

from his post--
Keeping my options open to use the dish with FTA or DirectTv in the future.

Ah, that explains it. BTW, they're called reflectors. Antennas pick up UHF/VHF.

If you get a chance read the box. Also you'll find it list in training materials list as:
dish
reflector
antenna (more commonly used and accurate)...def (layman): an electrical device that sends or receives radio or television signals...It's also listed as antenna on the inventory request forms we submit to warehouse.
 
M

Mr Tony

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Dude
Lets see, you're quoting me off my original reply (#2). In the original post (#1), there was no mention of DirectTV...His responce said he was open to DirectTv. Get your facts right.

He'll need another dual damn. Read the rest of the post and you'll pick up on that.

Again...read the original post.
 
K R Kimmel

K R Kimmel

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It's not that we want to scare of the newbies as much as we want to point out false information being posted as fact.

I'm suprised that nobody has taken up the following.

DirectTV doesn't own any of their own satellites. They lease space/programming from 119 and 101. 119 is owned by Echostar, the parent company of Dish Network.

DirectTV currently has 8 satellites in orbit. DirectTV 1R, 2 and 4S broadcast programming from the 101°W slot, DirectTV 6 broadcasts from 110°W and DirectTV 5 broadcasts from 119°W. DirectTV 1 and 3 are serving as in-orbit spares. DirectTV 7S was launched Tuesday morning and has not yet attained it's final orbit. It is intended to operate at the 119°W orbital location.
 
gpflepsen

gpflepsen

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boba said:
You really should read what you post. You need to edit this post What is a dual Twin LNB?

Ooops. I meant two legacy twin LNBs on a Y yoke mount on a dish 500. You know, the way the 500 was originally released. This gives four totally independent outputs from two satellites. That's two from each satellite.

Is that better? :)
 

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