All movies now have aspect ratios above 1.78:1 (1 Viewer)

Fgsilva

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Ok, I've had my Mitsubishi HDTV for over 2 years. I remember wathching "Open range" when I just got it and I was amazed with the clear picture I got back then. ( I still rememer people a the house saying "ooooH" "awwwww" :p ) I also at the time didn't care about the black bars at the top since I had not read my TV manual yet. But since I read in my manual that "black bars" and "tv logos" can burn my screen (and I can afford to buy a new one for a while!) everytime I rent a DVD with aspect ratios above 1.78:1 I have to use the "expand" command on my TV or zoom on the DVD player! With that I lose resolution and even parts of the movie (for example some movies they put the subtitles right where the black bars are! :mad: ). Lately, it seems that EVERY SINGLE movie I rent will have the freaking black bars. So, why the heck did they make HDTVs with a widescreen aspect ratio that is not used much in the movie industries?

anyway, I was just wondering if anybody else gets as frustrated as I am with this and if you really care about "burning" of your HDTV screen? Besides, what is the lifetime of the projection TVs anyway??
 

Fgsilva

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Really? I thought that by having the black bars there would be an uneven burn of the screen (I think that's what my manual says).
dragon002 said:
"black bars" wont burn in, white ones may. but not black.
 

shugo77

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Fgsilva said:
Really? I thought that by having the black bars there would be an uneven burn of the screen (I think that's what my manual says).

You are correct, my manual for my Hitachi Widescreen says the same thing.
 

navychop

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The studios want to have a wider screen than TVs. It's a selling point to get you to go to a theatre. Movies were 4:3 until TV came out, then widescreen became popular.
 

charper1

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Historic and commonly used aspect ratios

* 1.19:1: "Movietone" - early 35 mm sound film ratio used in the late 1920s and early 1930s, especially in Europe. The optical soundtrack was placed on the side of the 1.33 frame, thus reducing the width of the frame. The Academy frame (1.37) fixed this by making the frame lines thicker. The best examples of this ratio are Fritz Lang's first sound films: M and The Testament of Dr. Mabuse. This is roughly the frame size used for anamorphic photography today.
* 1.25:1: Commonly used computer resolution of 1280x1024. Native aspect ratio of many LCDs. Also the aspect ratio of 4x5 film photos.
* 1.29:1: Ratio of US Letter size paper (11:8.5 inches), in landscape format.
* 1.33:1: 35 mm original silent film ratio, common in TV and video as 4:3. Also standard ratio for IMAX and MPEG-2 video compression.
* 1.37:1: 35 mm full-screen sound film image, nearly universal in movies between 1928 and 1953. Officially adopted as the Academy ratio in 1932. Still occasionally used. Also standard 16 mm.
* 1.414:1: Aspect ratio of standard ISO paper sizes (A4, A3, et cetera). Also the square-root of 2.
* 1.43:1: IMAX 70mm horizontal format.
* 1.5:1: The aspect ratio of 35mm film used for photography. Wide-aspect computer display (3:2). Used in Apple Powerbook G4 15.2" displays with resolutions of most recently 1440x960. Also the native NTSC DVD-Video resolution, 720x480, although most videos use non-square pixels for a 4:3 ratio.
* 1.6:1: computer display widescreen (8:5, commonly referred to as 16:10). Used in WSXGAPlus, WUXGA and other display resolutions.
* 1.618:1: the golden ratio.
* 1.66:1: 35 mm European widescreen standard, also Super 16 mm and Japanese HiVision. (5:3, sometimes expressed more accurately as "1.67".)
* 1.75:1: early 35 mm widescreen ratio, since abandoned.
* 1.78:1: video widescreen standard (16:9). Also used in high-definition television One of 3 ratios specified for MPEG-2 video compression.
* 1.85:1: 35 mm US and UK widescreen standard for theatrical film. Uses approximately 3 perforations ("perfs") of image space per 4 perf frame; films can be shot in 3-perf to save cost of film stock.
* 2:1: Univision System, developed by Vittorio Storaro, with the intention of making this a universal theatrical and television ratio. It never really went anywhere.
* 2.2:1: 70 mm standard. Originally developed for Todd-AO in the 1950s. 2.21:1 specified for MPEG-2 but not used.
* 2.35:1 : 35 mm anamorphic prior to 1970, used by CinemaScope ("'Scope") and early Panavision. The anamorphic standard has subtly changed so that modern anamorphic productions are actually 2.39, but often referred to as 2.35 anyway, due to old convention. No recent anamorphic films are 2.35. (Note that anamorphic refers to the print and not necessarily the negative.)
* 2.39:1: 35 mm anamorphic from 1970 onwards. Sometimes rounded up as 2.4. Sometimes referred to as 'Scope.
* 2.55:1: Original aspect ratio of CinemaScope before optical sound was added to the film. This was also the aspect ratio of CinemaScope 55.
* 2.59:1: Cinerama at full height (three specially captured 35 mm images projected side-by-side into one composite widescreen image).
* 2.76:1: MGM Camera 65 (65mm with 1.25x anamorphic squeeze). Only used on a handful of films between 1956 and 1964, such as Ben-Hur (1959).
* 4:1: Polyvision, three 35 mm 1.33 images projected side by side. Only used on Abel Gance's Napoléon (1927).


The evolution of film and TV aspect ratios

Comparison of three common aspect ratios constrained by the screen diagonal size (the black circle). The smaller box (blue) and middle box (green) are common formats for cinematography. The largest box (red) is the format used in standard television.


The 4:3 ratio for standard television has been in use since television's origins and many computer monitors use the same aspect ratio. Since 4:3 is the aspect ratio of the usable frame within the Academy format once the soundtrack had been taken into account, films could be satisfactorily viewed on TV in the early days of the medium. When cinema attendance dropped, Hollywood created widescreen aspect ratios to immerse the viewer in a more realistic experience and, possibly, to make broadcast films less enjoyable if watched on a regular TV set.
 

Fgsilva

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very nice review Charper! but I wonder if nowadays the fear of losing audience to TV still exists? Although since I got my HDTV I have been going less and less to the movies...:rolleyes:

charper1 said:
Historic and commonly used aspect ratios


The evolution of film and TV aspect ratios

Comparison of three common aspect ratios constrained by the screen diagonal size (the black circle). The smaller box (blue) and middle box (green) are common formats for cinematography. The largest box (red) is the format used in standard television.


The 4:3 ratio for standard television has been in use since television's origins and many computer monitors use the same aspect ratio. Since 4:3 is the aspect ratio of the usable frame within the Academy format once the soundtrack had been taken into account, films could be satisfactorily viewed on TV in the early days of the medium. When cinema attendance dropped, Hollywood created widescreen aspect ratios to immerse the viewer in a more realistic experience and, possibly, to make broadcast films less enjoyable if watched on a regular TV set.
 

charper1

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Fgsilva said:
very nice review Charper! but I wonder if nowadays the fear of losing audience to TV still exists? Although since I got my HDTV I have been going less and less to the movies...:rolleyes:

Just reporting what I have read, not my original work. I also agree on the movies vs home HD. I only pay (usually matinee) if the movie is DESERVING of the theater experience. Of late, movies like Star Wars, T3, or V for Vendetta.
 

120inna55

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Unless you're abusing your TV (i.e. "torch mode"), watching a 2-hr movie with black bars is not going to cause burn-in.

Just be a little cautious not to watch 2 or 3 2-hr movies with the same sized black bars in a row without breaking it up with different aspect ratios.

Burn-in is not the "monster" is was once believed to be.

I have a DLP, but burn-in insurance was not the reason I went with that technology. I just liked the image, size, inputs, and cost. I, of course, do not have to worry about going to sleep only to wake up to find the static DVD player menu has been displayed for 5 hours. If I had a CRT RPTV, I'd have set the sleep timer to protect against such accidents.

In other words, enjoy your TV and your movies. With only a touch of common sense, you'll be fine.
 

Fgsilva

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that's a good point.I guess the manual does says you can have the black bars for no longer than 25% (I think ) of the hours the tv is used. though it may be weird for the rest of the family to see the tv with black bars since I yelled at them every time to EXPAND the picture to avoid that!:devil:

120inna55 said:
Unless you're abusing your TV (i.e. "torch mode"), watching a 2-hr movie with black bars is not going to cause burn-in.

Just be a little cautious not to watch 2 or 3 2-hr movies with the same sized black bars in a row without breaking it up with different aspect ratios.

Burn-in is not the "monster" is was once believed to be.

I have a DLP, but burn-in insurance was not the reason I went with that technology. I just liked the image, size, inputs, and cost. I, of course, do not have to worry about going to sleep only to wake up to find the static DVD player menu has been displayed for 5 hours. If I had a CRT RPTV, I'd have set the sleep timer to protect against such accidents.

In other words, enjoy your TV and your movies. With only a touch of common sense, you'll be fine.
 

SatelliteGAL

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If I get the full version and not the "widescreen" version and set my dvd player to 16:9 it is perfect. The dvd player takes care of it. If I get the widescreen version I end up with black bars no matter what I try. Perhaps I can have smaller black bars on some settings but thats about it. It makes no sense but that's the way it is.
 

120inna55

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SatelliteGAL said:
If I get the full version and not the "widescreen" version and set my dvd player to 16:9 it is perfect. The dvd player takes care of it. If I get the widescreen version I end up with black bars no matter what I try. Perhaps I can have smaller black bars on some settings but thats about it. It makes no sense but that's the way it is.

Assuming your set is 16:9, then your DVD player is stretching the image. Many of us find this fondling of original aspect ratio to be unacceptable.;)
 

Neutron

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dragon002 said:
"black bars" wont burn in, white ones may. but not black.

Dude, what are you smoking??

The bars you want that won't cause as much of a burn in are the grey bars.

My widescreen does that on all SD channels.
 

120inna55

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If the bars are black, then theoretically, there is little light (or activity) involving the phosphors that make up the black bars. Thus the intended viewable content (which does not remain black constantly) will age faster than the bars. Causing the area on the screen that had black bars to be "younger" than the rest of the screen which could (theoretically, under abusive/extreme conditions) cause that area to become constantly visible (burned-in). The gray bars are intended to age that area a little, in an attempt to make this phenomenon less likely.

But I must reiterate: typical use and ensuring that your contrast and color settings aren't cranked is the best defense against burn-in. Unless you are constantly playing the same aspect ratio without ever mixing in different ratio's, then most users are safe. Burn-in is just not that big of an issue. You need not stretch/zoom your content to avoid burn-in.

I'm speaking in terms of CRTs (RPTV and Direct View). I believe plasmas do have more of an issue with burn-in.
 

cdru

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120inna55 said:
If the bars are black, then theoretically, there is little light (or activity) involving the phosphors that make up the black bars. Thus the intended viewable content (which does not remain black constantly) will age faster than the bars. Causing the area on the screen that had black bars to be "younger" than the rest of the screen which could (theoretically, under abusive/extreme conditions) cause that area to become constantly visible (burned-in). The gray bars are intended to age that area a little, in an attempt to make this phenomenon less likely.
I think of it as reverse burn in. The non-black area remains normal, but the rest of the screen "burns in" although not as bad as if you had a static image 24x7.
 

navychop

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Will all that be on the test? ;)

P.S.- Was V for Vendetta all that good? Can't decide if we want to see it, skip it, wait for PPV/disc.
 

herdfan

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Go rent "The Interpreter". Director Sydney Pollack has a nice commentary about ratios used in movies. He shows what Pan and Scan takes away from the original. Made the wife watch it and now she no longer complains about the bars.

And expanding the picture makes it look worse and sort of defeats the purpose of a HDTV anyway.
 

dragon002

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Neutron said:
Dude, what are you smoking??

The bars you want that won't cause as much of a burn in are the grey bars.

My widescreen does that on all SD channels.


Black is the absence of light, correct?

the black bars are not showing any picture, they arent being used.

how can you have burn in if they arent being used?

now if you are talking color (say paint) instead of light, black is ALL the colors.

i may be thinking about this wrong, but i doubt it.
 

120inna55

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dragon002 said:
Black is the absence of light, correct?

the black bars are not showing any picture, they arent being used.

how can you have burn in if they arent being used?

now if you are talking color (say paint) instead of light, black is ALL the colors.

i may be thinking about this wrong, but i doubt it.

Your statement is correct, but as cdru put more eloquently than me, it's reverse burn-in. It's speaking to the uneven aging of phosphors through repeated, long-term presence of black bars. Or one could say, absence of light.
 

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