(Alternative) OTA HD-STB Discussion

[robertjp]

Simple HD solution

I will say that Ive been a loyal dish subscriber since they only had about 500,00 subscribers, they have around 10 million or so. Ive been with them for 6 years or so. Recently I bought a 50" lcd HD projection tv, got a 811 reciever, and subscribed to dish HD package if you want to call it that. 5 channels of which only about 2 or 3 actually show HD content. TNT is a joke, my sd TNT looks better, at least its not stretrched. Anyway my question is why do we put up with this.? Maybe Im dumb but why isnt everyone just switching to voom for $49 bucks a month and having 30 HD channels.? Im sure there is a good reason only I dont know it. Im definitely considering it though. Let me know why people are not flooding over to voom for HD content in MPG4. Thanks Bob

 

[nippjas]

Voom will not have MPEG 4 until 2005 and by then Dishnetwork will "likely" own them. DirecTV has some stuff going on right now too...Echostar and DirecTV are in the race for space and no one knows how this race is going to end. Most of us are just waiting it out to see who wins this race. Switching providers is completely upto you...I think before you start you E* bashing you should at least spend a few days up in the Voom forums on SatelliteGuys and DBSTalk. I personally think changing right now is pointless until the dust settle and we can clearly see who's where and what they have to offer. All 3 DBS providers are working on MPEG4, and I hear 2005-2006 will be a very surprising year.

Jason

 

[SimpleSimon]

I agree - I'm doing the wait'n'see, but Charlie needs to do something soon.

 

[robertjp]

What would it hurt to switch over now and then comeback if it improves? At least dish will get the message.

 

[nippjas]

with 10 million customers...one leaving doesn't justify a response. Well maybe..."Good luck don't let the door hit you on the way out, oh and by the way when you find out the grass isn't necessarily greenier on the other side we're gonna hit you with a reactivation fee and disqualify you for special promotions and special upgrade purchases...have a nice day."

 

[don_riggins]

The issue with voom also is poor customer service. They may have cleaned up their act but for about 6 months they were not supported by the BBB because so many issues went to them unanswered.

 

[keno]

Im sure there is a good reason only I dont know it. Im definitely considering it though. Let me know why people are not flooding over to voom for HD content in MPG4. Thanks Bob

I would suggest you give it a try. Under Voom's current promotion you can get three rooms hooked up for $1.00. You can leave Dish hooked up and run both Dish and Voom for 6 months to test it out. If not happy, drop it. It won't cost you that much. However, with the current promotion, you may have to wait for installation. I've never had a problem with Voom. Customer service has been fine, and installation went smoothly. At least your enjoying HD TV now, and not some promise in the future.

 

[bpasker8]

But is all 50 channels of voom's hd worth $50 a month? Specifically will any of their HD channels be stretched SD images?

 

[robertjp]

Nippjas,

Do you have stock in dish? and thats why you are offended I may leave? Jeez take a chill pill. And for the Voom promo going now why wouldnt I switch? It seems like a no brainer. Worse that can happen is I go back to dish. Its not like they give me any special deals or promotions anyway. So you think 5 suck HD channels is better than 21-30 for the samje price? see ya.

 

[nippjas]

Nippjas,

Do you have stock in dish? and thats why you are offended I may leave? Jeez take a chill pill. And for the Voom promo going now why wouldnt I switch? It seems like a no brainer. Worse that can happen is I go back to dish. Its not like they give me any special deals or promotions anyway. So you think 5 suck HD channels is better than 21-30 for the samje price? see ya.

No...I'm just sick of people whining about how bad E* is without looking at user comments of the alternatives...And I was making the point that Voom subs "May" end up being E* subs anyway. It's just a really iffy time right now for where anybody is headed and what technologies will be in place when they get there....Also who cares if I have Echostar stock or not....I am voicing my opinion as being a happy customer and you appear to be voicing an opinion about being an unhappy customer...What you are going to censor my support and emphasize your dis-support....Are you promoting free speech or marketing for the competitor? If your that unhappy by all means switch...



Jason

 

[DarrellP]

I have the Dish HD Pack and Voom Basic, and the PQ on the Dish HD Pack channels is far superior to any channel on Voom. Voom suffers from what's called "mosquito" noise, it looks like the screen is alive with mosquito's. It looks very much like film grain only it comes to life.

I've had many email conversations with the Engineers at Dish and they really do strive to deliver the best possible HD picture. I've emailed voom a million times in the last 8 months and all I ever get for a reply is that it's been forwarded to the proper channels. Obviously they aren't getting it or just don't care about PQ.

I know I am in the low % with the size screen I have, but people with 42" sets have said they can see it on some channels, especially EquatorHD. I can see it to some degree on every channel and it does not make the viewing experience a good one, thus I rarely watch Voom, I watch OTA and Dish 95% of the time.

So for the $50 bucks am I getting my HD's worth, NO. I will probably drop them come January when they raise the price as my bill will go up to $74/month for the Basic pack and 2 stb's. That is far too much money, IMHO for what they deliver.

I like the the Voom concept and think they have some fantastic original programming, but I can't watch it without being distracted. I relegate most shows to a DVD, that way I can justify the noise and lousy picture.

 

[robertjp]

Interesting comment. facts, I like it. I cant complain about the dish PQ. No problem there except for TNT which is a joke, my problem is paying 3 grand for a HD tv and only having 4 part time HD channels plus locals I get off the air. Are there others who feel this way about voom PQ?

 

[nippjas]

Interesting comment. facts, I like it. I cant complain about the dish PQ. No problem there except for TNT which is a joke, my problem is paying 3 grand for a HD tv and only having 4 part time HD channels plus locals I get off the air. Are there others who feel this way about voom PQ?

From what I have read and been told by friends who have it....what Darrell is saying sounds familiar. Which takes me back to my comment about going to the Voom forums and listening to what they have to say. There's a fairly large Voom room right here on this forum....I would recommend checking it out.

Robert, I'm sorry I snapped at you...but please realize where I am coming from. Dish is not the only satellite provider I have ever had....I've been with Dish since almost the beginning, just after the Houston Tracker Systems went public and became Echostar....I have had USSB(which forced me into DirecTV when they merged)...And I have had cable... . For the money I am very pleased with the quality of Dish...NOW I FULLY AGREE I also want more HD...But I've waited a long time for HDTV and a little while longer isn't gonna kill me. I get 7 HD channels, albeit 1 is PPV....I would be lying if I didn't admit just the other day I admitted I may not renew my yearly HD subscription until more is added...But I am more than happy with the quality of the limited content I receive...exception TNT.

Jason

 

[Harry]

I am keeping my options open right now. My HD package contract will be done in January and I'll make a decision then.

I watch more local, HD content than the HD Package stuff. (It's a $10 ripoff, IMHO) By July of 2005, ALL local broadcasters are supposed to be at full power for their digital signal, which means more channels for me.

Options Priority:
1 - Drop the HD package and stay with E*. Right now, my bill runs around $70/month. Too expensive. Dropping the HD package and the HBO/Max will make it comptetative again.
2 - Go with Direct. (I kinda feel that Direct will eventually outdo E*)
3 - Maybe look at Voom but I don't like their options right now. Maybe they'll change.
4 - Drop Satellite altogether and stay with locals only. ( I will NEVER go back to Comcast cable though)

My suggestion to newbies is forget the HD package unless you simply can't get any locals via OTA.

 

[nippjas]

...I watch more local, HD content than the HD Package stuff. (It's a $10 ripoff, IMHO) By July of 2005, ALL local broadcasters are supposed to be at full power for their digital signal, which means more channels for me....

My suggestion to newbies is forget the HD package unless you simply can't get any locals via OTA. Harry, I also watch more HDTV off OTA...and also watch more HD OTA than off Dish.

On the newbie comment...please note that currently there is currently only 1 dish provided network in HD which is CBS-HD...and you much qualify to receive it...so your last sentence kind of confuses me..."forget the HD package unless you simply can't get any locals via OTA."

Also please note that the mandate for digital broadcast is in relationship to ATSC Digital broadcast (DTV)...High Definition Television (HDTV) is not part of that FCC mandate...Many newbies confuse DTV and HDTV...they are two completely seperate topics/technologies. Now will the majority of DTV providers also simulcast programming in HDTV...for the most part YES...but again HDTV is not an FCC mandated technology. I have many links to this subject matter in case I confused anyone.

Jason

 

[bcshields]

and you much qualify to receive it...so your last sentence kind of confuses me..."forget the HD package unless you simply can't get any locals via OTA."

Also, 1 year of the HD Pak is required to get the 811 for free. Unless you can find an OTA HD rcvr for under $120 (which may, I'm not too knowledgeable of the topic)... then you pretty much have to get the HD pak.

 

[Harry]

On the newbie comment...please note that currently there is currently only 1 dish provided network in HD which is CBS-HD...and you much qualify to receive it...so your last sentence kind of confuses me..."forget the HD package unless you simply can't get any locals via OTA."

I am saying that if you can get locals OTA, then probably the HD Package is not worth it. (You can buy an STB if your tv is not digital ready)

Also please note that the mandate for digital broadcast is in relationship to ATSC Digital broadcast (DTV)...High Definition Television (HDTV) is not part of that FCC mandate...Many newbies confuse DTV and HDTV...they are two completely seperate topics/technologies. Now will the majority of DTV providers also simulcast programming in HDTV...for the most part YES...but again HDTV is not an FCC mandated technology. I have many links to this subject matter in case I confused anyone.

While it may not be part of the mandate, most, if not all, are broadcasting HD. This is true in my market, ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX and PBS are all broadcasting DTV and HDTV. FOX is broadcasting one channel of DTV/HD and one channel of digital for their realtime local weather radar. PBS transmits one channel of HD and one channel of local programming in DTV. Having an STB allows me to get all of these channels (the 811 does as well) but the STB has a superior picture to the 811 and no bugs to constantly fight.

 

[keno]

But is all 50 channels of voom's hd worth $50 a month? Specifically will any of their HD channels be stretched SD images?

Voom actually has about 38 or 39 HD channels. All the "exclusive" channels are in HD all the time. You will see SD on some HD channels, like TNT. I don't watch some of the exclusive stations, like Moov or Auction. But some of the exclusive stations are fantastic, like Monsters, Rave, Rush, and Equator.

The picture quality on my set from Voom is very good. No so called "Mosquito noise". I had a chance to view the HD channels on Voom and Dish, side by side (like Discovery-HD), and noticed no difference. Both have excellent picture quality.

I receive over 50 channels of HD because I also subscribe to Adelphia HD service, which includes INHD1 and INHD2, HDNet and HDNMovies, plus all the OTA channels in HD.

 

[nippjas]

Having an STB allows me to get all of these channels (the 811 does as well) but the STB has a superior picture to the 811 and no bugs to constantly fight.

Harry, which unit do you use, I'd love to get a thread going to help rate OTA STB's...

I have a Samsung SIR T-165 and it is far from being bug free....Other SIR users seem to agree with me. The new SIR-T451 is supposed to be a lot better. As far as the SIR being better then the 811 at OTA....The SIR has a bit better edge definition and better aspect control....But I see no other benefits of using the SIR over an 811 for OTA. In my opinion the PQ is not justifyably better...I discontinued using it because I needed a simpler solution for may family...Having OTA's mapped directly into my receiver's EPG was a big plus....no having to toggle back and forth, real handy when the barely cable ready in-laws show up.

Yes a STB is a good alternative if you do not plan on HD satellite delivered programming...but to have both....The only reason I have one was I had it before my 811...Back at this time the 6000u was fairly expensive and number of channels was even more pathetic...

Jason

 

[Harry]

Harry, which unit do you use, I'd love to get a thread going to help rate OTA STB's...

I have the LG LST-3100A. The only thing I do not care for on it is the remote, specifically the volume control. It controls the volume through the STB and not the TV. To me, it has a better picture than the 811, although the 811 is not bad. It supposidly has the 5th generation chip.

To have both is redundant but with my HD package requirement fixing to be completed, I wanted an alternative to the 811. This way, I will be able to watch HD and tape something else from satellite (wife requirement!) if push comes to shove. E* is simply moving too slow in adding anything to the HD package. I can only watch so many shark shows on DiscoveryHD, which is getting repetative. HDNet is a nice outfit but I occassionally only watch a movie now and then on their movie channel. HBO pretty much sucks now and I will be dropping it soon. I guess I am too impatient with a service that is still in it's infancy.