Antenna suggestion

TomCat4680

TomCat4680

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 15, 2008
1,513
1
Mt. Morris, Michigan
I live in the Flint/Tri-Cities, MI market and I use my rooftop RS U75R/WG HDP269/AM21 setup to watch Detroit stations which are on average 50 miles away, and half of the time a third of them don't come in at all (usually during the day) and the rest of time time they break up when traffic outside gets heavy (I live on a busy main road). What antenna would solve these problems so I can watch them 24 hours a day without interference? I'm on a limited budget and I'm in an apartment building so I can't get something huge.

OR...

Should I just keep what I got and invest in a taller pole?

Here's my data from TVFool with the antenna height set to 25 feet

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3db7c8bb6fd23f9e
 
Last edited:
boba

boba

SatelliteGuys Master
Dec 12, 2003
11,350
1,033
Dorchester, TX.
What do you have now?
What are your limitations on installation?
What channels do you want to receive?
 
TomCat4680

TomCat4680

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 15, 2008
1,513
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Mt. Morris, Michigan
What do you have now?
What are your limitations on installation?
What channels do you want to receive?

I thought I answered all of those questions already but I guess I wasn't explicit enough

I got a Radio Shack U75R UHF only antenna with a Winegard HDP-269 pre-amp.

My limitations are money (I want to spend less than $100 if possible). Also it'd be on top of a 2 story apartment building mounted to a pole so there's not much space.

I want to watch:

WJBK
WDIV
WXYZ
WMYD
WWJ
WTVS

all of which are about 50-60 miles away.
 
boba

boba

SatelliteGuys Master
Dec 12, 2003
11,350
1,033
Dorchester, TX.
Do you have a rotator? Where is your antenna currently aimed? WJBK is Ch7 VHF so your UHF antenna isn't designed to receive it. The other 5 are UHF and very similar look angles
 
boba

boba

SatelliteGuys Master
Dec 12, 2003
11,350
1,033
Dorchester, TX.
Those little symbols to the left of the stations indicate co-channel or adjacent channels. This means you will have trouble receiving a clear signal for these channels.

Your local channels I would bet are to your North so your antenna is pointed opposite of where you need to be for the 6 stations you would like.
 
TomCat4680

TomCat4680

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 15, 2008
1,513
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Mt. Morris, Michigan
No rotator. I have it pointed southeast towards Southfield. Like I said I can receive my locals on the dish so no need to watch them OTA.
 
boba

boba

SatelliteGuys Master
Dec 12, 2003
11,350
1,033
Dorchester, TX.
You might try turning your antenna around and see if your local channels offer subchannels that aren't on satellite.

Your Winegard HDP269 may not be enough amp to get the distant stations an HDP269 has 12 dB gain VHF & UHF, an AP 8275 has 29dB VHF & 28dB UHF. The problem with more gain is the co-channel interference may also be amplified. Example WWJ uses ch 44 for a broadcast channel at 53 miles distant WZPX also uses ch44 at 75 miles away and a different direction. Under the right conditions WZPX can interfere with WWJ's signal.

A more directional antenna can be the cure but the Radio Shack antenna is as good as anything else I could recommend for the price. Additional height may help but you will probably need guy wires to stabalize a taller mast. Do you have room to place them?

I would go for a 8275 amp in place of the 269 but it is a gamble. 17 dB more gain is going to change something hopefully not the interference.
 
Last edited:
TomCat4680

TomCat4680

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 15, 2008
1,513
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Mt. Morris, Michigan
You might try turning your antenna around and see if your local channels offer subchannels that aren't on satellite.

Your Winegard HDP269 may not be enough amp to get the distant stations an HDP269 has 12 dB gain VHF & UHF, an AP 8275 has 29dB VHF & 28dB UHF. The problem with more gain is the co-channel interference may also be amplified. Example WWJ uses ch 44 for a broadcast channel at 53 miles distant WZPX also uses ch44 at 75 miles away and a different direction. Under the right conditions WZPX can interfere with WWJ's signal.

A more directional antenna can be the cure but the Radio Shack antenna is as good as anything else I could recommend for the price. Additional height may help but you will probably need guy wires to stabalize a taller mast. Do you have room to place them?

I would go for a 8275 amp in place of the 269 but it is a gamble. 17 dB more gain is going to change something hopefully not the interference.

I can already watch subchannels for both markets with the antenna how it is.

I was told since WFUM is to the southeast and only 20 miles away an amp higher than 12 would overload the front end.

I told you I don't have much space, especially not for guy wires. A pole will have to do.

So can you recommend another more higher powered VHF High/UHF antenna that's strong enough for me to watch the Detroit stations but not so strong it'll have interference from other distant stations?
 
Last edited:
boba

boba

SatelliteGuys Master
Dec 12, 2003
11,350
1,033
Dorchester, TX.
Sorry Tomcat you know more about your area than I can guess at, I'll let someone else jump in with an antenna suggestion under $100 that you feel can fit on your apartment roof.
 
No Static At All

No Static At All

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 18, 2008
268
0
Northern Va
Tomcat,

Relaible reception of the Detroit stations will require higher gain antennas. The pre-amp you have now is fine for feeding 1 or possibly 2 TV's.

If space permits, the best bang for the buck is the Winegard YA-1713 & the AD 91-XG, combined together with a UVSJ. While these antennas are a bit large, they are very lightweight, & have very low wind drag. The YA-1713 should be at least 1 foot above the roofline & the 91-XG about 2-3 feet above the YA-1713.

If you woiuld like a 1 antenna solution, the Wingard HD767P is probably your best bet, but will not have near as much gain on UHF as the 2 antenna solution.
 
TomCat4680

TomCat4680

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 15, 2008
1,513
1
Mt. Morris, Michigan
Tomcat,

Relaible reception of the Detroit stations will require higher gain antennas. The pre-amp you have now is fine for feeding 1 or possibly 2 TV's.

If space permits, the best bang for the buck is the Winegard YA-1713 & the AD 91-XG, combined together with a UVSJ. While these antennas are a bit large, they are very lightweight, & have very low wind drag. The YA-1713 should be at least 1 foot above the roofline & the 91-XG about 2-3 feet above the YA-1713.

If you woiuld like a 1 antenna solution, the Wingard HD767P is probably your best bet, but will not have near as much gain on UHF as the 2 antenna solution.

I'd rather have a smaller 1 antenna solution. Is the AntennaCraft HBU line any good? I'm thinking I'll need a HBU33 or higher
 
No Static At All

No Static At All

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 18, 2008
268
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Northern Va
The HBU33 is a good antenna, but I don't think it will have anough gan for reliable reception. The Winegard HD7694 or 7695 have slightly higher gain & are fairly compact.
 
TomCat4680

TomCat4680

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 15, 2008
1,513
1
Mt. Morris, Michigan
The HBU33 is a good antenna, but I don't think it will have anough gan for reliable reception. The Winegard HD7694 or 7695 have slightly higher gain & are fairly compact.

The solid signal site says they have much lower range though. (40 and 30 for the 7695 is way too low). The Detroit channels aren't my in market locals, they're all at least 50 miles away.
Also please read my TV fool data posted earlier. Won't WFUM's close proximity (under 20 miles) and high powered signal (500 kW) to the southeast overload the front end if I have a really high gain UHF antenna? I already get 100% signal strength on it!
And how do I solve the problem of heavy traffic from the busy main road causing interference? Higher pole seems most logical I'm guessing, correct?
 
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No Static At All

No Static At All

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 18, 2008
268
0
Northern Va
A higher gain antenna shouldn't cause concern for overloading. Amplifier choice is most crucial & you have made an excellent choice. I am using these 2 antennas with much stronger signals & no obvious overloading. TV FOOL

I would experiment around with heights if you haven't already. The Radio Shack antenna you are using is a decent choice for medium range UHF reception. The moving cars are creating multipath signal reflections which can be a challenge to eliminate. A higher gain antenna would probably help alleviate this as well.

Winegards mileage ratings are on the conservative side. They are generally meaningless whan comparing different brands of antennas.
 
TomCat4680

TomCat4680

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 15, 2008
1,513
1
Mt. Morris, Michigan
A higher gain antenna shouldn't cause concern for overloading. Amplifier choice is most crucial & you have made an excellent choice. I am using these 2 antennas with much stronger signals & no obvious overloading. TV FOOL

I would experiment around with heights if you haven't already. The Radio Shack antenna you are using is a decent choice for medium range UHF reception. The moving cars are creating multipath signal reflections which can be a challenge to eliminate. A higher gain antenna would probably help alleviate this as well.

Winegards mileage ratings are on the conservative side. They are generally meaningless whan comparing different brands of antennas.

Well of course you get really great reception with them, you're within 10 miles of 19 transmitters! Might as well live on top of the Empire State Building.
 
No Static At All

No Static At All

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 18, 2008
268
0
Northern Va
I had the same goal as you. Reliable reception of the 2nd market stations that aren't carried on cable; without overload.:)
 
TomCat4680

TomCat4680

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 15, 2008
1,513
1
Mt. Morris, Michigan
I had the same goal as you. Reliable reception of the 2nd market stations that aren't carried on cable; without overload.:)

Well 40 bucks for an antenna that'll be used for 1 channel seems foolish. A combo unit would make much sense. How bout the next higher up HBU, the HBU44, is that enough gain?
 
No Static At All

No Static At All

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 18, 2008
268
0
Northern Va
I've don't have experience with the HBU44, but it looks like it may be a good choice. The advertised gain of the Winegard HD7695P is higher for about the same price.

Comparing gain ratings on antennas is a much better indicator of antenna performance. The mileage ratings are more confusing/misleading than anything else.

My VHF antenna is rated at only 40 miles, but receives 65 miles out with very acceptable reliablity. (No pre-amp)
 
TomCat4680

TomCat4680

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 15, 2008
1,513
1
Mt. Morris, Michigan
I've don't have experience with the HBU44, but it looks like it may be a good choice. The advertised gain of the Winegard HD7695P is higher for about the same price.

Comparing gain ratings on antennas is a much better indicator of antenna performance. The mileage ratings are more confusing/misleading than anything else.

My VHF antenna is rated at only 40 miles, but receives 65 miles out with very acceptable reliablity. (No pre-amp)

I don't see the average gain of the Winegard you mentioned on either its website or Solid Signal's.
 

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