Are there any downfalls for using a pole mount instead of mounting on house?

[Jimbo]

Where do you buy your poles?

Can someone please post where I can get the appropriate diameter pole? Also how high off the ground and how far in the ground do you suggest I go with it?

I bought mine at the local Fence company.
The post should be 2" OD. for the Slimline.

I put mine on a 16' pole sunk 3 ft in the ground, this way it's above the roof line, however, I have a flat roof at that point and have easy access to dust it off when needed, it's also supported to the house.
1 bag of concrete (80 lb) works well.


How high off the ground ?
You can go as high as your comfortable with, I would suggest 3-4 ft off the ground (don't forget to add the underground portion).

Unless you want to keep it low to the ground to blend in with other stuff.

 

[skyviewmark]

An Independent installer will DEFINITELY charge for doing work at your place, however you may get a better job, because you are paying for the install.

I HAVE NEVER charged a customer for a pole mount.. And I am an independent. So You need to recheck your facts. In fact all the independents I know give the pole mount for free.. I make enough money on the job that I can do this.. I also do wall fishes free if the customer wants it.. All you guys out there that seem to think the independent retailer is a bad way to go need to recheck your thoughts.. We are probably the ONLY people that actually care that you as a customer are happy with our work. Because we want you to refer us to your friends.. As far as the customer paying for the install???? We give the same free deal that you get from dish or DirecTV.. So again. GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT!!

 

[raoul5788]

I HAVE NEVER charged a customer for a pole mount.. And I am an independent. So You need to recheck your facts. In fact all the independents I know give the pole mount for free.. I make enough money on the job that I can do this.. I also do wall fishes free if the customer wants it.. All you guys out there that seem to think the independent retailer is a bad way to go need to recheck your thoughts.. We are probably the ONLY people that actually care that you as a customer are happy with our work. Because we want you to refer us to your friends.. As far as the customer paying for the install???? We give the same free deal that you get from dish or DirecTV.. So again. GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT!!

If you are not charging for pole mounts and wall fishes you are in the minority. Good for you, but I think you are crazy!

 

[ranmic]

I HAVE NEVER charged a customer for a pole mount.. And I am an independent. So You need to recheck your facts. In fact all the independents I know give the pole mount for free.. I make enough money on the job that I can do this.. I also do wall fishes free if the customer wants it.. All you guys out there that seem to think the independent retailer is a bad way to go need to recheck your thoughts.. We are probably the ONLY people that actually care that you as a customer are happy with our work. Because we want you to refer us to your friends.. As far as the customer paying for the install???? We give the same free deal that you get from dish or DirecTV.. So again. GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT!!

I wish you had installed mine. I paid the installer $80. As a matter of fact D* told me in advance that I would have to pay.

You are awesome.

 

[sean321]

I install satellites and generally recommend them lower then higher. Especially if you live where it snows a fair amount. If the dish gets covered you can just walk outside and brush it off. The ice is the worst killer for the signal however. Typically I just use a spade and get the cable down a few inches. Installed my own and the ground took care of itself pretty quickly.

 

[Liquidforce88]

I HAVE NEVER charged a customer for a pole mount.. And I am an independent. So You need to recheck your facts. In fact all the independents I know give the pole mount for free.. I make enough money on the job that I can do this.. I also do wall fishes free if the customer wants it.. All you guys out there that seem to think the independent retailer is a bad way to go need to recheck your thoughts.. We are probably the ONLY people that actually care that you as a customer are happy with our work. Because we want you to refer us to your friends.. As far as the customer paying for the install???? We give the same free deal that you get from dish or DirecTV.. So again. GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT!!

Skyviewmark,

I assume that you are doing the sale and the install. As such you get paid far more than any other installer to do the work. MOST installers work as subcontractors and as such get paid very little to do the work. As such they will charge for things that are considered EXTRA by every provider out there. Even Dish Network has gone back to a charge for pole mounts with the RSP's.

It is wonderful that you are able to provide these services FREE, but most installers are not in the situation that you are. Don't make it sound like every installer should be doing it free. Plain and simple the money is not there for them to do it free. As a business person you should really look at what you are doing to yourself, you are leaving alot of money on the table.

To the original poster: Expect to pay around $75 for the pole and $1.00 per foot to bury the cable. Depending on your lawn most of the time it is just slit trenched in a few inches and you will probably not even be able to tell that the cable was installed.

 

[Jimbo]

I install satellites and generally recommend them lower then higher. Especially if you live where it snows a fair amount. If the dish gets covered you can just walk outside and brush it off. The ice is the worst killer for the signal however. Typically I just use a spade and get the cable down a few inches. Installed my own and the ground took care of itself pretty quickly.

I'm hoping you install the sat DISH's not the sat itself

If your installing the actual satellite .......

What are you doing on this forum, your WAY over our heads !

btw, welcome to the site !

 

[cfb]

Couple of comments...

Some of the above notes are fairly dependent on what sort of weather you enjoy. Although even in a warm climate with few soil freezes I'd use ~200lbs of concrete on a post and bury it at least 2.5-3' deep. In an area where the ground freezes solid, I'd use at least 300lbs and bury it so the end is well below the solid freeze line.

Find out what the fence people in your area do to bury a fence post so it wont get heaved up. Then do that.

Burying wire directly in the ground isnt a great idea, even if the cable is rated for it. And burying it 4" in the ground or with a lawn edger isnt a good idea at all.

For most areas I'd use a piece of small diameter conduit and do a J at both ends to prevent water/ice intrusion. And I'd bury it below the lowest likely frost line. Even in a warm climate I'd put it at least 12-18" down.

Its just nuts to have the soil push your 4"/edger buried cable up to the point where a dethatcher rips it in half or you dig it up 5 years from now planting something.

When I do this, I use a hand held turf cutter ($5), remove the grass about 9-12" along the cable path and set it aside. Dig at least a foot or two down (at least three in northern areas that have a deep hard freeze) with a long thin shovel made for trenching ($8). Pull the cable through the conduit and the J fittings, then glue the J fittings after, since that'll make it easier to pull the cable, maybe $30-35 for the conduit. Refill the hole and replace your cut turf. It'll be invisible in 2 weeks.

Cut your turf about 2' in diameter for the hole for the pole, dig that, set the pole in concrete to about 4" below the soil level and make the hole/concrete larger at the bottom than the top. Most people not knowing better will do it the other way around and the freeze/defrost cycle or even soil expansion/contraction will push the whole thing up out of the ground. When you're done put the cut turf back.

Thats how you do it right. What will soon follow is a dozen people telling you they didnt do it that way and it worked okay for them. They have different soil and a different climate than you do so their results varied. They may have also gotten lucky. Whats even better is that you have a 99% chance of pulling new/extra cable through your conduit in a few years when you add to the system or replace it with something that requires better/different cable, or a piece of your cable goes bad on you.

 

[FED-UP-INSTALLER]

Very professional, now how much do you charge to do that, and how long does it take?

 

[raoul5788]

Couple of comments...

Some of the above notes are fairly dependent on what sort of weather you enjoy. Although even in a warm climate with few soil freezes I'd use ~200lbs of concrete on a post and bury it at least 2.5-3' deep. In an area where the ground freezes solid, I'd use at least 300lbs and bury it so the end is well below the solid freeze line.

Find out what the fence people in your area do to bury a fence post so it wont get heaved up. Then do that.

Burying wire directly in the ground isnt a great idea, even if the cable is rated for it. And burying it 4" in the ground or with a lawn edger isnt a good idea at all.

For most areas I'd use a piece of small diameter conduit and do a J at both ends to prevent water/ice intrusion. And I'd bury it below the lowest likely frost line. Even in a warm climate I'd put it at least 12-18" down.

Its just nuts to have the soil push your 4"/edger buried cable up to the point where a dethatcher rips it in half or you dig it up 5 years from now planting something.

When I do this, I use a hand held turf cutter ($5), remove the grass about 9-12" along the cable path and set it aside. Dig at least a foot or two down (at least three in northern areas that have a deep hard freeze) with a long thin shovel made for trenching ($8). Pull the cable through the conduit and the J fittings, then glue the J fittings after, since that'll make it easier to pull the cable, maybe $30-35 for the conduit. Refill the hole and replace your cut turf. It'll be invisible in 2 weeks.

Cut your turf about 2' in diameter for the hole for the pole, dig that, set the pole in concrete to about 4" below the soil level and make the hole/concrete larger at the bottom than the top. Most people not knowing better will do it the other way around and the freeze/defrost cycle or even soil expansion/contraction will push the whole thing up out of the ground. When you're done put the cut turf back.

Thats how you do it right. What will soon follow is a dozen people telling you they didnt do it that way and it worked okay for them. They have different soil and a different climate than you do so their results varied. They may have also gotten lucky. Whats even better is that you have a 99% chance of pulling new/extra cable through your conduit in a few years when you add to the system or replace it with something that requires better/different cable, or a piece of your cable goes bad on you.

300 lbs of concrete? Are you kidding? It is April 1st, after all. 160 lbs, below the frost line, is plenty for anywhere. I agree about putting the cable in a conduit, but going to the frost line is ridiculous. That would be 42" here in CT. If it's in a conduit, 8-12" is plenty deep enough.

 

[cfb]

Many codes specify burial of conduit 6" below the frost line, and a pole to be 1/3 below ground and 1/3 above ground, with a bag of concrete per foot exposed above ground if you're installing in soft or sandy soil, and allow a bit less if installing in hard, clay, rocky soils.

Kind of silly to go to all this effort and have your conduit freeze and crack, fill with water and freeze again, or to have your pole lean or get pushed up out of the ground. Might take 5-6 years and you might be able to correct the dish position to accommodate it, but why not do it right?

In certain areas with sandy soil and high wind loads, 160lbs of concrete would be sadly inadequate.

Good thing I didnt bring up brazing some rebar to the bottom of the pole and a 12" metal plate at the surface level...

As far as cost and time, I cant say for sure as I've only done this for myself. As someone who has a vested financial interest in a construction company, I'd advise everyone doing something like this to identify their local codes and best practices and follow those. You'll probably do better than advice from someone on the internet who has different soil, different wind, a different dish, used a different pole, different concrete and/or any of the other plausible variables.

Heck, if its the physical labor thats the issue, you can rent a small auger to dig the hole and a small ditch witch to do the trenching at your local lowes or home depot. Many of the larger ones rent tools like this for ~$35/hr. Just make sure you know where your gas, electric, cable and water lines are before you dig.

Heres a good source for details:
http://www.dslreports.com/faq/2689

 

[WhoRay85]

Well, if the installer had 6-8 hrs to do one install, your procedure may just work well for them. However, most of our guys have 3 or 4 installs a day and need to be moving on to the next one within 3 hours.

One to two bags of quikcrete, a 3' hole for the pole and a flat spade (for the trench) are all I need to securely pole mount a Ka/Ku dish that is not going anywhere. we had 50 knot winds here last week, and not one of my mounts caused a problem. ( I work in the Raleigh DMA for MASTEC - mostly out in the suburban to rural areas).

While I do occasionally add something to the pole base in sandy soil (usually a mast base) - I always flatten 6-8" of the pole.

I also have never charged a customer for a pole mount or to bury cable (and have buried as much as 200' at once. My van will not tow a ditchwitch or anything else for that matter. Besides, it's also against company policy. Besides, if we're only making $50-60 for the entire job - why spend more than you're making to rent any heavy equip?


:rantver

 

[tychipman]

Wow, eq rental, conduit , labor. That would be like a $500 dollar pole mount. Sounds like it would last forever but getting a less informed custy to part with $75.00 can be a chore. Very informative butr far beyond reasonable.

 

[cfb]

Well, if what you're doing is working for you and the customers arent reporting any intermittent problems, then I guess its all good.

That having been said, lots of people seem to have all sorts of funny little issues that just might be a dish wobbling in the wind or a cable thats been cracked by ice or has a water intrusion issue. Might be tough to connect that back to the sub standard pole mount and burying the cable a couple of inches in the dirt, but that might be the cause.

 

[singkwan2004]

I HAVE NEVER charged a customer for a pole mount.. And I am an independent. So You need to recheck your facts. In fact all the independents I know give the pole mount for free.. I make enough money on the job that I can do this.. I also do wall fishes free if the customer wants it.. All you guys out there that seem to think the independent retailer is a bad way to go need to recheck your thoughts.. We are probably the ONLY people that actually care that you as a customer are happy with our work. Because we want you to refer us to your friends.. As far as the customer paying for the install???? We give the same free deal that you get from dish or DirecTV.. So again. GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT!!

You never charge a pole mount ? Now that I wonder how you can stay in business. A 2" 6' pole cost around $15, if quikset cement needed, there another $6.00 plus other materials and labor, time travel, car maint, gas, insurance, etc. I do not know how much you can get from an installation now, but before when they only pay $100 per installation, we have to watch where we will go for the job, sometime if too far and trip charge is not allow, we will not take that job.