AZBox Stab HH120 Problem

[jwwbrennan]

I have an AZBox connected to a Stab HH120 that is not working correctly. The AZBox Ultra works fine with a fixed dish but with the Stab it works sometimes, not at all at other times and moves back and forth over the requested position much of the time. It over shoots the goal as often as not and then spends more time than I have trying to hone in on the satellite. It worked well for a long time before this started to happen. As it continues to get power and signal to move (rather than not moving at all) I tried switching the AZBox OS/firmware from 9.5309 to Enigma 2 with no improvement. I can't find any information identifying which device/software is controlling various aspects of the movement so don't know how to isolate the problem.

This is a come-and-go hobby with me so, being one of the constants, I may well be the problem. Is there something I have simply forgotten? If anyone can help I would appreciate it.

On another note...as a person with lots of Linux experience I am not certain I would want to change over to Enigma without it. One might get the feeling of being a stranger in a strange land. On the other hand it could be great if you like such things.

 

[Valasante]

I have Azbox Premium for the last three years and used the Stab HH 120 with it for 2 yeats before it parked as a result of a aviolent storm. I have had it for 12 years! I use Usals and found it excellent. It always worked correctly. Prior to that I was using DisEQC which gave problems you mentioned from time to time

 

[AcWxRadar]

JW and Valasante,

I use BOTH USALS (mostly) and DiSEqC 1.2 motor control in my system with the AZBox Premium Plus IRD. I have never experienced the issue that you report, JW. However, I also do NOT have a STAB motor. I have a DG-380 PowerTech motor. Valasante, I am not sure if you are familiar with the motor I have or not, but it is a really good, robust workhorse motor.

Valasante, I am glad to hear the you are using USALS on your system. I am a staunch advocate of USALS. I try to persuade others to adopt it, but some folks cannot seem to make it work for them. I believe that it is because they don't have their dish and motor aligned properly. They don't follow the rules of aligning a dish and get frustrated and fall back on DiSEqC 1.2 control to skirt around the issue.

JW, I think your motor has a problem. Maybe a bad connection and maybe too much gear backlash (play or slop) or a combination of both.

RADAR

 

[jwwbrennan]

I said all that and managed not to mention that dish uses only USALS, that was an oversight. It has been working well for years...until lately. Radar, you are probably correct but there are a couple of reasons I was thinking the AZBox might be continuing to issue commands well after the call of duty.

1. I don't know how responsible the receiver and its programming are for establishing position when using USALS. Does the AZBox continue to haggle over reception or does it send a simple goto command and be done with it? Does the software calculate location or the motor firmware or a combination of both? Wouldn't exclusive motor firmware control make all DiSEqC 1.2 capable receiver software USALS capable? The motor seems to have a very limited command set and no apparent measurement of signal strength for use in fine tuning (which is where it spends its time). What criteria could the motor use in shifting about in search of the best signal? Executive Summary: I have no idea.

2. The most significant reason for me to believe it is in the house is height and access of the dish, build up of snow and thermometer reading of minus 10 degrees C.

Thanks folks,

 

[Magic Static]

I have no experience with a STAB, but I had an SG9120 that worked fine for awhile and them seemed to develop a mind of it's own. A Hardware Reset on the motor took care of the problem. You might try it. I havn't checked the AZBox, but my DVB boards will keep sending DiSEqC commands until an acceptable signal level is reached, or different command issued.

 

[jwwbrennan]

"DVB boards will keep sending DiSEqC commands until an acceptable signal level is reached, or different command issued" is interesting. How is an acceptable signal determined? Weather conditions have all signals down somewhat but viewable. Viewing on the stationary disk is fine as it doesn't have the option to move to a better spot.

I really like the Stab but it has no hard reset (run the goto 0 command is all there is) and that always leaves me wondering. I have used it several times and after long negotiations it settles on the correct spot.

Are DVB boards more forthcoming with data? If not a solution it may just be interesting. Any recommendations for Windows 7 64 bit?

Thanks

 

[AcWxRadar]

....Radar, you are probably correct but there are a couple of reasons I was thinking the AZBox might be continuing to issue commands well after the call of duty.

1. I don't know how responsible the receiver and its programming are for establishing position when using USALS. Does the AZBox continue to haggle over reception or does it send a simple goto command and be done with it? Does the software calculate location or the motor firmware or a combination of both? Wouldn't exclusive motor firmware control make all DiSEqC 1.2 capable receiver software USALS capable? The motor seems to have a very limited command set and no apparent measurement of signal strength for use in fine tuning (which is where it spends its time). What criteria could the motor use in shifting about in search of the best signal? Executive Summary: I have no idea....

Thanks folks,

In all my experience with the AZBox and USALS, it simply calculates a command based upon the site's LAT/LONG coordinates and the orbital degree of the sat and sends out a one time DiSEqC command to the motor to move accordingly. Once the motor reaches that destination, it's all over. If the signal is absent, it doesn't attempt to reposition the motor or try to refine the signal quality for a peak result by honing in on the signal.

The command sent is processed by the motor, but the command is only sent once. So, if the motor is dodging around trying to find the position and going back and forth, I'd say there is something awry in the motor's logic or relay controls.

STAB motors should be highly refined for USALS application as the STAB company actually developed the USALS program. But, not all receivers will be able to process USALS unless they are engineered to do so. The AZBox is, so that is not a concern here. This does not mean that the AZBox (your specific box) does not have some glitch or failure. It may indeed be sending out repeat commands to move the motor, but it is NOT normal operation.

I would check and clean all cable connections between the AZBox and the motor/LNBF first. Try again. If the problem persists, then try a motor reset and try again. If it still persists, then you will have to try substitution (either the motor or the AZBox). I'd try the box first if you can. Do you have another USALS compatible IRD?

RADAR

 

[AcWxRadar]

"DVB boards will keep sending DiSEqC commands until an acceptable signal level is reached, or different command issued" is interesting. How is an acceptable signal determined? Weather conditions have all signals down somewhat but viewable. Viewing on the stationary disk is fine as it doesn't have the option to move to a better spot.

Thanks

This is something you can use. I take it you have a stationary dish and a motorized one. Try routing the LNBF cable from the motor to the LNBF of the fixed point dish instead of the LNBF on the motorized dish. Then set that sat up in the menus to use USALS motor control and command the system to drive the motor there. You know you have an optimal signal from that fixed dish, so there will be no point for the signal quality to affect anything. Then just watch what the motor does. If it keeps dodging around like it is looking for something, you can be assured that it isn't looking for a better signal, since it is already presented to it from the fixed dish.

I don't know if you follow my logic here or not, but what I am proposing is a way to kinda "lie" to the system and fool it by feeding a solid sat signal to it from the fixed dish. The result I am expecting is that the motorized dish will continue moving around erratically like you have witnessed before, even though a good signal is being detected.

 

[jwwbrennan]

(Edit: I was mistaken in my understanding of the software and deleted a section that was incorrect.) When I request signal from the fixed dish, which is pointed at a satellite beyond the range of the motorized unit, the motor goes to the end of its tether and stops - there's nothing more so the motor stops attempting anything. It then sends the signal from the fixed dish and leaves the other unit at the end. It doesn't do its step dance I assume because there is no place to go. Now that I think about it, it is a bit baffling as to why the signal intended for the "off" side of a 22 Khz is going to a dish on the "on" side. Maybe the 22 Khz switch has packed it in or are the motor signals passed anyway?

Do you think the switch could be the culprit? What is the best switch combination for an Invacom Quad Polar on a motor and a generic single on the fixed?

Thanks for all the help.

 

[jwwbrennan]

I have a work around that suits me for now. Enigma has a feature called "Search East" and "Search West". You plug in the details of a satellite and transponder and hit the button. It stops at the best signal, you add it to the list of locations and just add the address (001, 002) to the satellite definition. It ain't USALS but it works like a charm; no back and forth over the station. Sometime I will try to figure out what happened to the USALS, it started on the official software and was still there under Enigma.

Thanks again for all your help.

 

[AcWxRadar]

jwwwbrennan,

I didn't think about non-factory firmware! The Enigma may incorporate a feature to search for signal and peak it. Sorry, but I didn't even think to ask about this.

RADAR

 

[jwwbrennan]

RADAR, I must say Enigma is great software for those interested in having a peek at what the CPU and other electronic tidbits are talking about while you are being distracted by television. It is fast on blind scans but recording an event in a few days on transponders without EPG is limited (or my understanding of setting it is) so I am going back to 5309. It's very good; just designed for those interested in a different aspect of the hobby. It would be nice if the 5309 people would speak with the Enigma people. They both run on Linux so it should be Open Source with the code available to everyone to use and modify. I think that is still one of the few rules for running on Linux.

Edit: I found the screen for setting a recording according to time and date so this software does pretty much everything for me.

Thanks and Happy Satellite Juggling

 

[Cham]

Just fyi, I had a stab 120 where the nut inside holding the main shaft to the gear came loose. I realized the shaft was loose when trying to re-align the dish, couldn't get it to track the arc properly at all, and there was too much play. I removed the motor and brought it home to take apart on the bench where I was able to fix the issue by removing the shaft and tightening the nut that pre-loads the bearing, cleaned everything up as much as possible, and re-lubed the bearing with lubriplate. Reinstalled the shaft and re-torqued the nut (added loc-tite), re-assembled the housings and re-installed. Been working perfect for two years or so. The Stab 120 is a good design and works great with the Azbox and USALS as Radar says.

Not sure about the enigma software yet. Tempted to try it...

-C.
There was a spring that minimizes backlash; can't quite remember exactly how it is installed but take note on dis-assembly so you know how it goes back together later.

 

[jwwbrennan]

Cham,

The unit has never been quicker just using the predefined positions and goto commands. I always thought the motor was a little slow but now it is surprisingly quick getting into position and returning a stable signal. Switching between transponders with this software is also faster than it has ever been.

I can see how Enigma would be intimidating to anyone with limited Linux experience but it is very good and decidedly robust. There were a few spots during installation where I wondered what would I think if I hadn't been through here before. Much of your effort might be given over to understanding software rather than capturing and processing signals from space. There is a file called "how to use azup.rar" that includes the very brief installation by number process of installing Enigma and reinstalling the original system if required. Before trying anything you may want to get azup running on your computer. Depending on your operating system (64 bit in particular) it may be the biggest challenge in the whole installation.

Good luck,