Belden 7916A 2.2 cable OK to use for HD - Details

[HiTechJeff]

In a recent incident I had with a DirecTV service call, which I will post about later and save the space here to stay on topic, they questioned my cable I had installed.

The cable I had used back in 2002 was Belden cable part #7916A that is labeled on the jacked at 2.2Ghz sweep tested. To cut to the matter, both DirecTV and the idiot installer tried to tell me that I HAD to have 3.0 Ghz cable and that this would not work. I knew this was not true, as I am an IT guy and can run circles around 99.9% of anyone at or sent by DirecTV. However, I never say for sure so I shut down the install in part due to this until I was able to confirm for 100% FACT.

Bottom line is I contacted Belden DIRECT and spoke with THEIR tech support. You can't get any better than the ones that made the cable. What I thought was indeed 100% correct. The Belden 7916A cable that says 2.2 on it is the EXACT same cable used today that says 3Ghz. There is no difference whatsoever in how they make it now as opposed to the one labled 2.2Ghz. It is only the new labling and the fact it is now tested up to 3Ghz. The 2.2 is and can go way beyond what it is rated for and they said all of it will and does pass easily 3Ghz. Therefore, their tech said their is no need at all to replace it just to say 3Ghz as it is the very same cable period and to ignore what anyone else says.

This confimred what I thought and both the installer and DirecTV are 100% WRONG on requiring 3Ghz cable as long as it is 2.2Ghz or at least in case of Belden. The Belden tech did say they did know there are many companies that make cable that says 2.2 which actually will NOT pass anything higher or even is over rated at 2.2. However, Belden has always UNDER rated their cables and it is evident by the fact the 7916A is the same as it was back in 2002.

So, I did some more checking and it seems that both Belden and Comscope are just fine and are more than 100% acceptable for ANY HDTV use be it OTA, DirecTV, Dish, etc. I thought others may find this info useful in case they are told they MUST have 3.0Ghz cable and have installed Belden 2.2 or Comscope 2.2 cable to save yourself a lot of headache thinking you will need to install new.

NOTE: As I said above, this does not apply to cheap 2.2 rated cable and I have only 100% confirmed the Belden. The Comscope I am 90% sure on but have not spoke with their tech dept yet.

 

[Smith P.]

If I'll connect spectrum analyzer to same length of 3 GHz rated and 2.2 or 1.8 GHz rate, you'll see no difference in attenuation of 1650-2150 MHz range what Dish/DTV using.

 

[iwc5893]

In a recent incident I had with a DirecTV service call, which I will post about later and save the space here to stay on topic, they questioned my cable I had installed.

The cable I had used back in 2002 was Belden cable part #7916A that is labeled on the jacked at 2.2Ghz sweep tested. To cut to the matter, both DirecTV and the idiot installer tried to tell me that I HAD to have 3.0 Ghz cable and that this would not work. I knew this was not true, as I am an IT guy and can run circles around 99.9% of anyone at or sent by DirecTV. However, I never say for sure so I shut down the install in part due to this until I was able to confirm for 100% FACT.

Bottom line is I contacted Belden DIRECT and spoke with THEIR tech support. You can't get any better than the ones that made the cable. What I thought was indeed 100% correct. The Belden 7916A cable that says 2.2 on it is the EXACT same cable used today that says 3Ghz. There is no difference whatsoever in how they make it now as opposed to the one labled 2.2Ghz. It is only the new labling and the fact it is now tested up to 3Ghz. The 2.2 is and can go way beyond what it is rated for and they said all of it will and does pass easily 3Ghz. Therefore, their tech said their is no need at all to replace it just to say 3Ghz as it is the very same cable period and to ignore what anyone else says.

This confimred what I thought and both the installer and DirecTV are 100% WRONG on requiring 3Ghz cable as long as it is 2.2Ghz or at least in case of Belden. The Belden tech did say they did know there are many companies that make cable that says 2.2 which actually will NOT pass anything higher or even is over rated at 2.2. However, Belden has always UNDER rated their cables and it is evident by the fact the 7916A is the same as it was back in 2002.

So, I did some more checking and it seems that both Belden and Comscope are just fine and are more than 100% acceptable for ANY HDTV use be it OTA, DirecTV, Dish, etc. I thought others may find this info useful in case they are told they MUST have 3.0Ghz cable and have installed Belden 2.2 or Comscope 2.2 cable to save yourself a lot of headache thinking you will need to install new.

NOTE: As I said above, this does not apply to cheap 2.2 rated cable and I have only 100% confirmed the Belden. The Comscope I am 90% sure on but have not spoke with their tech dept yet.

And what is the tech supposed to go by when they show up to do the job? We're trained to read the rating posted on the cable, because that is the standard that we were held to. There is no way for the techs to know which cables are underrated, overrated, or rated as posted so to be safe they have to go by what the manufacturer prints on the cable. In addition, if the tech used that cable he would fail a QC and get a chargeback (meaning he would have to go back out and bring it up to spec for no pay).

Customers like you are the reason idiots like me no longer do this type of work.

 

[HiTechJeff]

And what is the tech supposed to go by when they show up to do the job? We're trained to read the rating posted on the cable, because that is the standard that we were held to. There is no way for the techs to know which cables are underrated, overrated, or rated as posted so to be safe they have to go by what the manufacturer prints on the cable. In addition, if the tech used that cable he would fail a QC and get a chargeback (meaning he would have to go back out and bring it up to spec for no pay).

Customers like you are the reason idiots like me no longer do this type of work.

Thanks for proving my point. From what I have seen and dealt with, this is the type of service you get, very sub par to say the least. Do it yourself or Pay a professional home theater dealer in your area and you will get a much better install.

If this is DirecTV fault so be it, they should train their people better. Everyone I know certainly just repeats the typical jargon they are trained with by DirecTV and they are not good either unless you get to a very top level person at DirecTV. Even then, it's spotty because they are not REAL IT/Tech guys.

While I understand what you are saying about not being able to sign off on it if they install using cable already there at a customers home, that is a fault with DirecTV. Let me sign off on it and if there's a problem then I would be the one to have to fix it. I have no problem with that because I am an IT guy and could do it with my eyes closed. I know others are less technical and that is most likely why they REQUIRE their people to do it X way or else they won't approve the install. However, they should allow the customer to sign off on it if they want to with a note by the installer the customer wanted to use their own cable or do X and then it's their issue to deal with if it does not work out.

I'm just saying that most everyone I have ever dealt with from cable companies, Dish, DirecTV, etc. are far from caring about your eqipment, your home or how things are done. Most people with nice homes won't even allow service people to enter them due to how they treat your place like not wiping their feet and wearing booties to protect your floor etc. In other words they are non caring. That may not be you and I understand it's not a 100% blanket statement but for the most part that covers at least 90% of the FREE insatall guys out there.

 

[iwc5893]

Thanks for proving my point. From what I have seen and dealt with, this is the type of service you get, very sub par to say the least. Do it yourself or Pay a professional home theater dealer in your area and you will get a much better install.

If this is DirecTV fault so be it, they should train their people better. Everyone I know certainly just repeats the typical jargon they are trained with by DirecTV and they are not good either unless you get to a very top level person at DirecTV. Even then, it's spotty because they are not REAL IT/Tech guys.

While I understand what you are saying about not being able to sign off on it if they install using cable already there at a customers home, that is a fault with DirecTV. Let me sign off on it and if there's a problem then I would be the one to have to fix it. I have no problem with that because I am an IT guy and could do it with my eyes closed. I know others are less technical and that is most likely why they REQUIRE their people to do it X way or else they won't approve the install. However, they should allow the customer to sign off on it if they want to with a note by the installer the customer wanted to use their own cable or do X and then it's their issue to deal with if it does not work out.

I'm just saying that most everyone I have ever dealt with from cable companies, Dish, DirecTV, etc. are far from caring about your eqipment, your home or how things are done. Most people with nice homes won't even allow service people to enter them due to how they treat your place like not wiping their feet and wearing booties to protect your floor etc. In other words they are non caring. That may not be you and I understand it's not a 100% blanket statement but for the most part that covers at least 90% of the FREE insatall guys out there.

I understand your point, but what about the customer that signs off on something like this (or no second line for the DVR, no phone line connection, etc...) that changes their mind in 3 months? They end up calling DirecTV to bring their system up to what it should have been installed to in the first place, and DirecTV tells them that it will cost them money to have a tech come back out and fix it. This upsets the customer and they threaten to switch their provider unless D* fixes it for free. D* gives in and schedules a tech to come back out (again, for no pay) to bring the system up to spec because the customer changed their mind and threw a hissy fit about it.

I agree that you will generally get a better install by doing it yourself, or having a home theater company do it but that is not always the case. I've seen good and bad from all aspects, including the "free" installers, customer work, and home theater "experts" that have no clue where the satellites are in the sky (I went to one "prewired for satellite" home where all of the cables came out on the ground floor of the northwest corner of the house. Where I live, we point to the south east. Since it was a three story town house, I couldn't do a roof mount and the customer was upset that I would have to wrap their house in cable to tie in to their existing system. I couldn't bury the cable because of two sidewalks that were right up against the house.)

 

[charper1]

+1 and I'm an end user that backs what IWC says about what MOST customers will do. AND I think if they have a standard, and its to be obtained by reading what the factory has printed on the cable jacket; then in this case Beldin may have a quality cable , but if it actual meets the specs they says it does; then change the jacket label. It really does not matter how much overkill training someone has, hell they could be a master installer, but if they are told NOT to do something , then they don't do it; that simple; just like you and the rules at your job; regardless if they are perfect or not; you follow the rules to get paid or stay employed. GEEZ.

 

[Smith P.]

Seems to me you are support 'monkey training' . Doing install you must have basic knowledge about signals range and why 2.2 GHz rated cable WILL WORKS WITHOUT PROBLEMS !!!

 

[charper1]

I didnt say it did or didn't work and I do not support monkey training or whatever the hell that actually is, and could absolutely care less on both counts; BUT to me regardless of what will work if YOUR company's policy states DO NOT use one thing or another; then you follow those rules; plain and simple.

 

[iwc5893]

I didnt say it did or didn't work and I do not support monkey training or whatever the hell that actually is, and could absolutely care less on both counts; BUT to me regardless of what will work if YOUR company's policy states DO NOT use one thing or another; then you follow those rules; plain and simple.

And that was my point. RG-59 will "work", but it's not approved. If you use non-approved materials you are violating the rules and open yourself up to call backs and possible issues down the road.

 

[texasbrit]

There are a couple of different things here. First, does 2.2Ghz cable work? Of course it does. DirecTV only uses up to 2.15Ghz anyway. So there is no need for 3Ghz cable. So why does DirecTV specify 3Ghz cable at all - I doubt whether anyone can tell you. Someone, somewhere just decided to play it safe and specify the higher number. Second, what's the difference between cable marked 2.2Ghz and cable marked 3Ghz? In 99% of cases, nothing. Even if there were a difference, it wouldn't matter. Even if the cable was marked 2Ghz, it probably would not matter either. The difference in signal attenuation even at the higher frequencies between the 2 cables even at say 150ft would be negligible.

So should an installer use 3Ghz solid copper-core cable for a new installation? Absolutely, because that he has been told to do. And should an installer refuse to do an installation where the cables are already in place and are only 2.2Ghz? Absolutely not. That is just completely dumb. If an installer is worried about this they should just note on the installation paperwork that the cabling was already in place and get the customer to sign it. I know if anyone came to my house and told me they wanted to rip out and replace my perfectly good RG6 cable I would tell them to leave.

 

[iwc5893]

There are a couple of different things here. First, does 2.2Ghz cable work? Of course it does. DirecTV only uses up to 2.15Ghz anyway. So there is no need for 3Ghz cable. So why does DirecTV specify 3Ghz cable at all - I doubt whether anyone can tell you. Someone, somewhere just decided to play it safe and specify the higher number. Second, what's the difference between cable marked 2.2Ghz and cable marked 3Ghz? In 99% of cases, nothing. Even if there were a difference, it wouldn't matter. Even if the cable was marked 2Ghz, it probably would not matter either. The difference in signal attenuation even at the higher frequencies between the 2 cables even at say 150ft would be negligible.

So should an installer use 3Ghz solid copper-core cable for a new installation? Absolutely, because that he has been told to do. And should an installer refuse to do an installation where the cables are already in place and are only 2.2Ghz? Absolutely not. That is just completely dumb. If an installer is worried about this they should just note on the installation paperwork that the cabling was already in place and get the customer to sign it. I know if anyone came to my house and told me they wanted to rip out and replace my perfectly good RG6 cable I would tell them to leave.

I agree with you, but as an installer, I wouldn't set myself up to come back for no pay and bring your system up to spec just because you signed off on it. I've had customers sign off on things and been burned by it because they changed their mind later (as little as a week in one case). It got to the point that if I couldn't install the system up to spec, I wouldn't install it.

 

[Smith P.]

It's not in a SPEC - it's ... OUT of spec ! The 3 GHz label.