Bill James states HOF WILL admit steroids users!

[salsadancer7]

I had heard about this article on the local sports talk radio down here a few days back and I didn't want to comment about it until I actually found the story.

I don't know about whether they will be inducted into the HOF, but I DO AGREE on his assessment on the use of PEDs. Who am I or anyone else to question, quite possibly the best baseball writer/historian in the sport.


Bill James: Baseball Hall of Fame will admit steroid users

BY STEVE SCHRADER • FREE PRESS SPORTS WRITER • July 26, 2009

For a guy who lives by the sanctity of the baseball statistic, author Bill James seems pretty pragmatic about the so-called steroid era.
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The numbers guru has never spoken on the subject before, until his current article for his publisher at actapublications.com.

First, James predicts that performance-enhancer abusers -- the ones we now think will never go to the Baseball Hall of Fame -- eventually will be enshrined.

"I am not especially advocating this," James writes. "I simply think that is the way it is."

And he says the major effect he has seen on the game is to prolong players' careers well into their 30s.

"But what does this mean? It means that steroids keep you young," James writes. "You may not like to hear it stated that way, because steroids are evil, wicked, mean and nasty, and youth is a good thing, but ... that's what it means. Steroids help the athlete resist the effects of aging. Well, if steroids help keep you young, what's wrong with that?

"What's wrong with that is that steroids may help keep players 'young' at some risk to their health, and the use of steroids by athletes may lead non-athletes to risk their health as well."

Bill James: Baseball Hall of Fame will admit steroid users | Freep.com | Detroit Free Press

 

[anders5189]

I had heard about this article on the local sports talk radio down here a few days back and I didn't want to comment about it until I actually found the story.

I don't know about whether they will be inducted into the HOF, but I DO AGREE on his assessment on the use of PEDs. Who am I or anyone else to question, quite possibly the best baseball writer/historian in the sport.


Bill James: Baseball Hall of Fame will admit steroid users

BY STEVE SCHRADER • FREE PRESS SPORTS WRITER • July 26, 2009

For a guy who lives by the sanctity of the baseball statistic, author Bill James seems pretty pragmatic about the so-called steroid era.
Advertisement

The numbers guru has never spoken on the subject before, until his current article for his publisher at actapublications.com.

First, James predicts that performance-enhancer abusers -- the ones we now think will never go to the Baseball Hall of Fame -- eventually will be enshrined.

"I am not especially advocating this," James writes. "I simply think that is the way it is."

And he says the major effect he has seen on the game is to prolong players' careers well into their 30s.

"But what does this mean? It means that steroids keep you young," James writes. "You may not like to hear it stated that way, because steroids are evil, wicked, mean and nasty, and youth is a good thing, but ... that's what it means. Steroids help the athlete resist the effects of aging. Well, if steroids help keep you young, what's wrong with that?

"What's wrong with that is that steroids may help keep players 'young' at some risk to their health, and the use of steroids by athletes may lead non-athletes to risk their health as well."

Bill James: Baseball Hall of Fame will admit steroid users | Freep.com | Detroit Free Press

Prolonging old players careers also screws young players. You'd hate to be a LF prospect for the Giants in the last decade. Some guys probably had to spend more time in the minors, and may never got their shot in the big leagues, because meatheads like Barry Bonds wanted to play until he was 50 and try to hit balls across San Francisco Bay into Oakland.

 

[salsadancer7]

Prolonging old players careers also screws young players. You'd hate to be a LF prospect for the Giants in the last decade. Some guys probably had to spend more time in the minors, and may never got their shot in the big leagues, because meatheads like Barry Bonds wanted to play until he was 50 and try to hit balls across San Francisco Bay into Oakland.

Dude, if you can play, you will not sit in the minors. They will either TEACH YOU another position or trade you for a position they need IF the guy preventing you from getting to the big club is a stud. SELDOM does a guy stay around that long in the minors....and the guys that usually do are pitchers.

 

[salsadancer7]

...ALSO, there have been some HOFers that stated that IF steroids were around when THEY PLAYED, they would have taken them too.....Buck O'Neal AND Mike Schmidt.

Here is some MORE from Bill James:

It seems to me that, with the passage of time, more people will come to understand that the commissioner's periodic spasms of self-righteousness do not constitute baseball law. It seems to me that the argument that it is cheating must ultimately collapse under the weight of carrying this great contradiction-that 80% of the players are cheating against the other 20% by violating some "rule” to which they(the players) never consented, which was never included in the rule books, and which for which there was no enforcement procedure. History is simply not going to see it that way.

The end of the day here is about the year 2040, perhaps 2050. It will come upon us in a flash. And, at the end of the day, Mark McGwire is going to be in the Hall of Fame, and Roger Clemens, and Sammy Sosa, and Rafael Palmeiro, and probably even Barry Bonds. I am not especially advocating this; I simply think that is the way it is. I only hope that, when all of these players are enshrined, they will extend a hand up to a few players from the Will Clark division of the game.

Bill James on steroids - SweetSpot by Rob Neyer - ESPN

 

[anders5189]

Dude, if you can play, you will not sit in the minors. They will either TEACH YOU another position or trade you for a position they need IF the guy preventing you from getting to the big club is a stud. SELDOM does a guy stay around that long in the minors....and the guys that usually do are pitchers.

It's not just pitchers. There are a limited number of guys who can play in the majors. Teams have 25 man rosters. Think about Juan Pierre for the Dodgers. He CAN play, but he's been turned into a utility player by the Dodgers because he plays behind Manny Ramierez. Now Pierre just gets to pinch hit occasionally, and the only reason Ramierez starts is because he's been taking steroids and he fills the left field bleachers. That's not right. If Pierre were stuck playing behind a guy who was legitimately better it'd be one thing. His ass is glued to the bench because of a cheater.

 

[salsadancer7]

It's not just pitchers. There are a limited number of guys who can play in the majors. Teams have 25 man rosters. Think about Juan Pierre for the Dodgers. He CAN play, but he's been turned into a utility player by the Dodgers because he plays behind Manny Ramierez. Now Pierre just gets to pinch hit occasionally, and the only reason Ramierez starts is because he's been taking steroids and he fills the left field bleachers. That's not right. If Pierre were stuck playing behind a guy who was legitimately better it'd be one thing. His ass is glued to the bench because of a cheater.

Pierre is an OUTFIELDER...not just a left fielder. With Colorado, Marlins and the Cubs, he played just about centerfield only. The reason he behind ALL of the other outfielders....not just Manny, is because they are better than he is in some capacity. I will give you that Pierre is a better fielder than Manny, but he will NEVER be in the same class as Manny is to produce...period. His ass is glued to the bench because Manny baseball eye and HITTING was not increased by steroids, Manny is one of THE BEST righthanded hitters in our lifetime....you may say his power numbers MIGHT have been due to PEDs, but his batting average and run producing ability may have had little to do with it.

 

[anders5189]

Pierre is an OUTFIELDER...not just a left fielder. With Colorado, Marlins and the Cubs, he played just about centerfield only. The reason he behind ALL of the other outfielders....not just Manny, is because they are better than he is in some capacity. I will give you that Pierre is a better fielder than Manny, but he will NEVER be in the same class as Manny is to produce...period. His ass is glued to the bench because Manny baseball eye and HITTING was not increased by steroids, Manny is one of THE BEST righthanded hitters in our lifetime....you may say his power numbers MIGHT have been due to PEDs, but his batting average and run producing ability may have had little to do with it.

OK so Manny's Babe Ruthesque performance last year after he weasled his way out of Boston was just due to his hitting eye. Let's not forget that we now know that he's been on the juice since at least 2003.

 

[salsadancer7]

OK so Manny's Babe Ruthesque performance last year after he weasled his way out of Boston was just due to his hitting eye. Let's not forget that we now know that he's been on the juice since at least 2003.

And what about before last year? ....Look, the juice may have help his power numbers...but you still have to SEE a 90+ mph fastball to hit it. As well as A-Rod and Barry Bonds.... those guys were/are good....REGARDLESS of whether they took the juice or not. IF baseball were as easy as how suddenly everything assumes it is, there would be more teams and more players and I might have been playing it.

 

[Ramy]

You knew I was going to say this but I am going to say it anyway. Then PETE ROSE should be in too!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[HD MM]

Enshrine them with an asterisk next to their names so everyone throughout history can know they were cheaters.

 

[AntAltMike]

I'd put asterisks next to everyone's name from now on, which denotes, "probably took something, because nearly everybody did."

I'm still waiting for someone to post a link to some kind of scientific study showing the observed correllations between PEDs and adverse health effects. Without PEDs, someone else would be governor of California right now.

 

[Juan]

Now that Rollie "Vaseline" Fingers is in the Hall of Fame They really should not care about roids

 

[Hart5150]

Enshrine them with an asterisk next to their names so everyone throughout history can know they were cheaters.

Should we put ones next to the players who played pre-integration?

How about one next to an actual cheater like Gaylord Perry?

Guys who played in regular seasons with 154 games not a 162?

Should Gibson get one because he had the advantage of the mound being higher?

How about those that played in the dead ball era?

How about guys like Mike Schmidt who admitted to playing loaded on amphetamines?

You don't want to open that can of worms.

 

[jbernardi]

Pete Rose should be in the HOF decades before any of these steroid cheaters are even considered.

Rose violated the no-gambling rule, but never bet against his own team. He deserved some punishment, but not a total ban from the HOF.

 

[HD MM]

Should we put ones next to the players who played pre-integration?

How about one next to an actual cheater like Gaylord Perry?

Guys who played in regular seasons with 154 games not a 162?

Should Gibson get one because he had the advantage of the mound being higher?

How about those that played in the dead ball era?

How about guys like Mike Schmidt who admitted to playing loaded on amphetamines?

You don't want to open that can of worms.

Now you're just being silly. Injecting performance enhancing drugs into your body trumps all of those examples.

 

[cosmo_kramer]

I'm still waiting for someone to post a link to some kind of scientific study showing the observed correllations between PEDs and adverse health effects. Without PEDs, someone else would be governor of California right now.

Here's one link from a prestigious medical facility that showed up in an easy Google search:

Many athletes take anabolic-androgenic steroids at doses that are much higher than those prescribed for medical reasons, and most of what is known about the drugs' effects on athletes comes from observing these users. It is impossible for researchers to design studies that would accurately test the effects of large doses of steroids on athletes, because giving test participants such high doses would be unethical. This means that the effects of taking anabolic-androgenic steroids at very high doses haven't been well studied.

Taking performance-enhancing drugs: Are you risking your health? - MayoClinic.com

As for Ahnold, he's apparently not juicing anymore:

 

[salsadancer7]

Should we put ones next to the players who played pre-integration?

How about one next to an actual cheater like Gaylord Perry?

Guys who played in regular seasons with 154 games not a 162?

Should Gibson get one because he had the advantage of the mound being higher?

How about those that played in the dead ball era?

How about guys like Mike Schmidt who admitted to playing loaded on amphetamines?

You don't want to open that can of worms.

BINGO!! The best post of the thread so far....:up

 

[salsadancer7]

Now you're just being silly. Injecting performance enhancing drugs into your body trumps all of those examples.

But cheating is cheating, anyway you look at it.....or are we gonna go by the old phrase of "she is a little pregnant..."?

What gets me is here is THE LEADING statistician AND historian in the game, the guy that created stats measures by which baseball STILL uses EXTENSIVELY....and you guys, are more or less saying he is wrong and full of sh**...!!! LOL!!

 

[HD MM]

But cheating is cheating, anyway you look at it.....or are we gonna go by the old phrase of "she is a little pregnant..."?

What gets me is here is THE LEADING statistician AND historian in the game, the guy that created stats measures by which baseball STILL uses EXTENSIVELY....and you guys, are more or less saying he is wrong and full of sh**...!!! LOL!!

The examples your buddy listed weren't "cheating". Pitching off a smaller mound, playing 154 games and "dead balls" were a part of the times.

 

[thowe21]

They'll all eventually get in....maybe posthumously but eventually. I think Rose will get in sooner than later.