Blu-Ray - not ready for the mass market?

[jrbdmb]

With my new HD setup (Sony 52" W-series LCD, Yamaha RX-V463 receiver, 5.1 setup) I have looked into the current crop of BD players and come out disappointed. What I have noted is:

1. High prices, both for decent players and BD titles.
2. Incompatibility, too many examples of certain BD movies not playing on certain players.
3. Unreliability - cheap players running too hot or malfunctioning after a few months. Even quality brands like Panasonic have models on their 7th (!) firmware level.

IMHO, it just doesn't feel like BD is ready for mass-market acceptance yet, not until player / media prices fall, incompatibility problems are almost non-existant, and firmware updates are only rarely needed. The average consumer wants an appliance that will "just work" and play movies - and they have that in DVD. To them, the advantages of BD picture / sound may not be worth the technical issues noted above, not to mention the higher price. And it is for the reasons above that I have not moved to BD yet.

Anyhow - any guesses as to when BD will resolve these issues?

(BTW - posters in this forum - who in many cases have already bought multiple BD players, will buy only BD movies, and somewhat enjoy browsing internet forums to debug technical problems with their BD players - should not be considered "average" consumers. )

 

[HD MM]

I'm not aware of all the "issues" you speak of.

I've had my PS3 for 2 years now. I use it primarily for Blu-Rays. I watch at least 3 movies a week on it. Not one "issue" to speak of. I'm more than happy with my BD player. The increased picture and audio quality has been well worth the price to upgrade to the latest generation of movie viewing.

Not sure what your statement of "BD Players aren't ready for the mass market yet" theory is based on.

 

[db2]

I sort of agree with you on point 2. It seems that several of the big titles have required firmware updates to the players to access all features. I don't think the BDA has handled the profile 1.1, 2.0 stuff very well.

I have not heard of many players overheating or malfunctioning myself. I'm not saying there isn't a problem I just haven't read much about it. If you're drawing this conclusion after reading forums like AVS forum I would caution you. In places like AVS the 1% or 2% of people that have failures tend to band together and squawk loudly so it seems like everyone is having issues.

I agree with you on half of point 1. The prices of the media are way too high. They need to get all new releases under $20 with a decent percentage under $15. IMHO they are doing themselves a disservice because they are pushing people into renting.

I do not agree with you on player prices. BD players are much cheaper than DVD players were at this point in the DVD life cycle. I also like the fact that there are players at all ends of the price spectrum.

When will BD resolve issues? The next crop of BD players should start shipping in April. Hopefully that will drive prices of existing units down and the new units should have less bugs. IMHO I don't think we'll see a large shift in lowering prices until next home theater season which usually kicks off in September.

My $0.02

 

[KAB]

Prices are falling, not just right now where demands exceeds supply.
Incapability...the very FEW that I have heard of have been corrected with firmware upgrades.
Unreliability...Only the first run of current Samsung players have been cited for over-heating. Firmware levels have nothing to do with reliability. They are for adapting for the ever changing technology tweaks, and in some cases, errors.

Think about this. How many CD or DVD players have had go bad on you over the years? And compared to 1996 when DVD took off at much more robust rate, players were averaging about $350.00.

In short, I can't agree with your assessment.

 

[dlma1]

I have to disagree with your statements:

1. Player prices have been coming down significantly. Sony's BDP-S350 is under $ 300 (sometimes on sale for $250). From all reports I've heard, it is very reliable. As for BD titles, many are competitive with regular DVD. Check out Amazon - many titles are $9.99 to $14.99. And in the case of the higher price titles, BD titles are only 2-3 dollars more than DVD.
2. Incompatibility: I don't think that this true anymore. I have a Sony 5000ES, a Pioneer Elite 94, and Sony 550 - none of them have any problems. And I used to have a Samsung 1000, one of the first, and it worked fine with my collection about 100 BD titles.
3. Unreliability - you can't base reliability on firmware levels. Firmware provides updates for NEW features as well as problem fixes.

So, I would not be afraid to dive into Blu-Ray. CNET has some good recommendations on players; check it out!

 

[Zookster]

I think it's a credit to the technology that firmware updates are being made easily available through a connected broadband connection. Yes, I get prompted to update my PS3 every couple of weeks. And yes, there have been a couple of FW updates for my Panny BD35 since I got it in Dec. But as others have stated, these have just made enhancements to the hardware. In no case was my BD player not working to its full capabilities without those updates, nor have I ever experienced an instance where a disc would not play without a FW update (and I'm often getting new releases the week they come out from Netflix.)

 

[bhelms]

I got my Sony S550 for $274 delivered (special 1-time CC sign-up deal, but might repeat in a slack market - check the SonyStyle site). It came with profile 2.0 installed and I have not updated the FW, don't see a need to do so. (I do not use the interative stuff yet due to no BB 'net access.) No glitches, no titles that won't play. Been using it for about 4 months now. 100% reliable and predictable.

My issue is with title prices. Notwithstanding our current point in the BR product lifecycle, I still think they need to drop another 25%. I have bought about 20 titles thus far, some for $10. But I'm more or less on "pause" waiting for the deals at this point...

 

[Paradox-SJ]

I would have to disagree with OP as well. I have a pani55 and I have not had (to date) any issue of any kind technically or with playing a single disk.

I dont see firmware update as a bad thing but a very good thing as they improve the product over time. Long gone are the days where you would have to just take the product back becasue of an issue that is easily fixed with an update. These are specialized computers after all....So would you say OS's that recieves updates and SP are not ready for the mass market too?

As far as the price for BD media....I dont buy I rent movies.

 

[meStevo]

I would completely disagree with the OP if Iron Man didn't give us such a poor experience the first time that we played it that whenever we see a 'this title requires an update to use all of it's features' the wife and I very carefully select no and proceed to watch our movie.

There will be more Iron Mans. One of the biggest titles of 2008 not playing on release day just because my player is connected to the internet shows a lack of foresight by some party, and without someone specific to blame the whole format takes the hit.

 

[Paradox-SJ]

I would completely disagree with the OP if Iron Man didn't give us such a poor experience the first time that we played it that whenever we see a 'this title requires an update to use all of it's features' the wife and I very carefully select no and proceed to watch our movie.

There will be more Iron Mans. One of the biggest titles of 2008 not playing on release day just because my player is connected to the internet shows a lack of foresight by some party, and without someone specific to blame the whole format takes the hit.

(Assuming you gaming machine are connected)

Seriously meStevo? You have a PS3 and a 360 are they not both connected?

Why wouldnt you connect your BD players?

 

[jrbdmb]

OP here ... I read that the Tropic Thunder BD release had compatability issues ...I'd like to avoid buying the kids the next Disney BD release only to find out (with everyone gathered in front of the TV) that I need new FW on my Groppo XG-9 to watch the movie. I guess I'm asking when the technology will mature a bit.

But I agree that I should not extrapolate the few issues I read about on here and AVS to crucify all BD players. I will examine the new crop of Panasonic and Sony players when they come out and decide if it is time to "jump in."

 

[meStevo]

(Assuming you gaming machine are connected)

Seriously meStevo? You have a PS3 and a 360 are they not both connected?

Why wouldnt you connect your BD players?

Unless I am misunderstanding the question, I'm not sure what you're asking . I had a problem (like many) with Iron Man because my PS3 was connected to the internet. The title automatically updated and the server(s) weren't ready for the load on release day.

Poor usability (no prompt, mandatory/foced update) and poor experience led to poor expectations that we still have today of every title update. Those are the kind of mistakes that need to not happen again.

If I didn't have my player networked (PS3 or otherwise) I wouldn't have had a problem. If my parents had the same thing happen to them they would not have been able to watch the movie because they wouldn't have Googled it our known where to look to find out that disabling the internet connection fixed the problem.

Things are getting better, as they should be. This kind of stuff should be behind us, especially as some just use BDLive as a bullet point and just shove people off to the same content (essentially a website of ads) requiring less QA and fewer opportunities to mess up

 

[dfergie]

Tropic Thunder killed my Magnavox's BD capability's... before I rented it, it played everything I threw at it... the Magnavox wouldn't play it and shortly afterwards wouldn't (and still won't play any BD's) I have the Sony BDP350 and am totally happy with it and haven't had any problems with it... sure the prices need to come down some more, but after Blue won the war I'm happy that they aren't higher...

 

[gadgtfreek]

1) Was true, but is changing. The disc prices on amazon and ebay are fine

2) Not really, depends on the brand. Panny and Sony have been great, and the newer BD35 has only had 2 updates. Panny usually has the update out before the disc releases.

3) Panny's brands in the "7th level" are the older ones. As stated above, the new BD35 and BD55 have no issues. You cant expect an early format to work this easily, and HDDVD was just as bad.

As far as unreliable cheap players, my dads insignia works fine, yet nicer Sammy players are known to overheat. Once again, its all about the brand. Buy a Pio, Panny or Sony and dont look back.

 

[SatinKzo]

Tropic Thunder killed my Magnavox's BD capability's... before I rented it, it played everything I threw at it... the Magnavox wouldn't play it and shortly afterwards wouldn't (and still won't play any BD's) I have the Sony BDP350 and am totally happy with it and haven't had any problems with it... sure the prices need to come down some more, but after Blue won the war I'm happy that they aren't higher...

Wow, I didn' t know your mag stopped working completely.

 

[dfergie]

It only killed the Blue Laser apparently, It works just fine with AVC HD and regular DVD's...

 

[teachsac]

No prob with Tropic Thunder on any of my Panasonic players. I have yet to have a BD not play.

S~

 

[Bobby H]

The situation with Blu-ray players is better than the DVD format was regarding its first couple generations of players.

For instance, the situation with evolving capabilities in newer players was clearly spelled out via the "BD Profile" numbering system. DVD never had anything like that. Most who bought players in 1997 were stuck with players that lacked dual layer DVD compatibility, lacked DTS Digital Out and had lots of performance issues that could not be updated via firmware upgrades.

Regarding the issue with Iron Man, that's not really a problem relating to Blu-ray player hardware or the movie disc either. Paramount simply underestimated the level of user demand for the disc's BD Live functions. Subsequent Blu-ray releases have made BD Live updates a prompt "do you want to update?" kind of thing rather than something automatic. PS3 consoles could have BD Live updating set to query instead of automatic regardless of the movie disc's settings.

 

[navychop]

As I posted in another thread, the Costco near me is currently selling a lot of Blu-ray titles for $16 or less.

 

[KAB]

As I posted in another thread, the Costco near me is currently selling a lot of Blu-ray titles for $16 or less.

Great. But are they anything you really want?