Can I use a Hopper (all 4 tuners) with OTA on same cable, and Joey?

[Waterskier1]

Currently I have a 612,a 722, and 211K receivers. I have the 722 in the basement where all the sat antenna (3 coaxes) and OTA antennas enter the house. The 722 is connected one of the sat antenna coaxes, the internet and a sling box, and the SD output is connected to a video distribution system which also has OTA antenna input. This allow me to watch SD Dish and/or OTA at all the wired coax outlets in the house.

In addition, I have a 612 in the living room, fed with a cable that is diplex/triplex with one sat antenna (supplying two tuners in the 612) and OTA antenna from the basement. This cable is then diplex/triplex to the two tuners in the 612 and the OTA signal which is split between a Tivo box and the OTA input to the 612. This give me 2 dish sat channels plus one OTA recording on the 612 plus 2 channels OTA recording on the Tivo, just in the living room.

I have the 211K receiver in my bedroom, fed with one coax from the basement. That cable has the sat antenna diplex/triplex with the video distribution (which is actually rf, not video) rf output of the 722 mixed with OTA signals. This allows me to view the output of the 722 in SD, OTA and also input to the 211K. I did this so I can watch recorded shows from the 722, OTA shows, and HD live sat on the 211K. I also use the 211K in my RV.

Now I'd like to replace all this (possibly not the 211K since I'll still need it in the RV) with a Hopper/Joey system. I think I'd need to put the Hopper in the basement, since it will need two coax inputs from the sat antenna for the 4-tuner recording/watching. But, I don't believe that the Hopper has OTA recording or even an input, so I'll to supply OTA, and Hopper output to a Joey and Tivo in the Living Room which only has one coax cable. All coax cables are installed inside walls/ceiling and installing new ones (professionally inside wall/ceilings) would be a nightmare, cutting drywall in multiple locations, upstairs and downstairs). I've read that you can have the moca signals between the Hopper/joey and OTA signals on the same coax. So, it seems that the only solution for that location would be a wireless Joey, and use the coax for OTA only.

I believe that I'd have to do the same (wifi Joey) in my bedroom.

I would leave the rest of the TVs on rf input, assuming there is an rf output from the hopper, which will be SD only. I'm finding I'm not using those TV as much anyway.

I believe that the wireless Joey has less functionality, and certainly doesn't have any recording capability, so I'll loose at least one record tuner capability.

Does this sound like it would work? Is there a better solution without tearing out walls and ceilings to route coax cables? Routing cables along the outside of the house or around baseboards is NOT an option.

 

[harshness]

Could you summarize that epic in five bullet points or less that details what you want to end up with? It kinda rambles a bit.

There is an "OTA dongle" available for the Hopper that adds one OTA tuner to the mix.

Please note that there are only three satellite tuners in the Hopper. If you need/want more, you need to contemplate a Super Joey or another Hopper.

 

[ChadT41]

I don't think you can run the OTA signal on the same cable as the Hopper. Also, only one cable will need to come from node to hopper. Two cables go from dish to node, which is usually located closer to the dish. This can vary based on install, but typically. The wireless Joey has every functionality as a regular Joey, including wireless capabilities, except the wireless Joey is an approved method of wireless Joey, whereas the regular Joey is unsupported to be wireless.

 

[thomasjk]

With an OTA module on the Hopper you can view everything using Joey or Super Joey at other locations depending on your exact wiring. Dish uses MOCA to distribute HD to secondary locations.

 

[harshness]

IIRC, the Solo Node adds the extra half band above the conventional DPP stack so the OTA band should still be available.

 

[harshness]

Dish uses MOCA to distribute HD to secondary locations.

This is what fouls the OTA diplexing possibilities. I had forgotten about MoCA.

 

[thomasjk]

I'm pretty sure you can't diplex OTA but MOCA will handle the distribution from the Hopper.

 

[ChadT41]

I'm pretty sure you can't diplex OTA but MOCA will handle the distribution from the Hopper.

I believe you are correct sir.

 

[harshness]

I believe you are correct sir.

If you're going to use MoCA, you can't diplex OTA but if you put in a band-stop filter and use any networking scheme other than MoCA, you can diplex.

Now that HD has become the thing, RF distribution systems are dropping like flies.

 

[bwexler]

There is no coax/RF output from a Hopper.
There is HDMI and component only and Dish does not intend either to display on more than one device.
From your description I would guess you are at least as much a TV addict as I am. How many people will be watching TV in your home. If it is just you watching from different locations around the house, You will have different requirements than you, a wife and 5 kids.
From my interpretation of your setup you will need 3 cable from Hopper to dual node, then one coax to each of 2 Hoppers a second coax to each Hopper location for the OTA adapter from the antenna and ideally one coax cable from the dual node to each Joey location. That will provide 3 Dish tuners in each Hopper (6 total) plus one OTA tuner at each Hopper (2 OTA total). All the Joeys will be able to access all the tuners and all the recordings and control what and when to record as well as special features like fast forward pause etc. The Hoppers will only be able to view their own 3 + 1 tuners, but will be able to view recordings on the internal hard drive on the other Hopper. The wireless Joeys may solve the wiring problem, but if you already have one coax to all the TV locations, placing a Joey at the end of each coax should be easy enough. If you want independant OTA viewing at each location (beyond the two OTA connections at the Hoppers you would need a second coax at each of those locations.
It may also be possible to mirror a Hopper or Joey if for example two TVs were back to back on opposite sides of a wall.
I have done much of this but others here will be better at providing technical specs and procedures.

 

[Waterskier1]

I see that I was not clear. So let me try again.

- What are you calling a Node?

- Does the Hopper have an OTA antenna input,
-If so, does the OTA tuner have independent recording capabilities, like my 612 (i.e., I can record two Dish Sat channel plus one OTA channel all at the same time)

- As one poster mentioned, the advent of HD Joeys, does likely eliminate much of my need for my old video distribution system (other than to get OTA signals to each TV.

-Since the Hopper only has HDMI and Component output, my current video dist. system won't work.

-Most of the time, no more than 2 different sources (real time/recorded) are needed. Often it will be only one, but at different locations in the house (Basement HT, Living Room, Bedroom are primary, but I do currently have TVs in the guest BR, Den, Kitchen, and Office which are only feed with OTA and the SD output of the 722).

-I only have one coax home run to each location from the Basement Utility Closet. This Closet is on the back side of the Basement HT, where the 722 currently resides.

-Right now, the only way to watch output from the 722 is on the HT Big Screen, or via the SD RF output which is mixed with OTA and distributed to all other locations in the house.

-I have about 15 coax locations in the house/garage/patio, but don't use most - when I remodeled the house years ago, I put what I thought I would need, everywhere I thought I would need it - including CAT 5. My how things have changed!

-Given the above, I thought the best location for the Hopper would be in the Basement HT, where I can easily add one more coax from the antenna, but that is based on my assumption that I would need to coax feeds from the antenna to feed 4 independent tuners in the Hopper.

-Since it seems so many of the shows I want to record are all during prime time, I added a Tivo in the Living room, fed off the same cable that has the diplex coax to the 612, so I can relegate 2 OTA (Local) channel recording to the Tivo, thereby freeing up the 612 and 722 tuners to Sat programming, or an additional Local channel, if required.

-I mostly watch the Tivo in the Living Room, so that output doesn't need to be distributed.

-My system works acceptably, but it would be nice if I could get HD at all locations.

I may have some wrong assumptions, like having SD output (that I could modulate onto RF if needed) from the Hopper. I know this is a convoluted system, and I might be better to start from scratch, but with the criteria that I only have one coax to each location, except the Basement HT, which backs up the the Utility Closet where everything is available.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and offer suggestions.

 

[ChadT41]

The node is the heart of a moca network. Moca is the MultiMedia Over Coax. It is how everything is whole home in the house. The hopper does not have an OTA input but you can buy a USB OTA module for $30 from Dish for the OTA signal. That plugs into the USB port on the hopper. The coax plugs into the module. It is a free OTA tuner that you can record on. It will not affect your 3 satellite tuners. If your recording is in the primetime, and on the big 4, you get primetime anytime that will record the four locals with one tuner.
Go to google, and type in Hopper Installation, and then click on images. The first one to come up should be from DBSTalk, and is how the Hopper would be installed.

 

[rglore]

Hopper also has a composite output. I use it for whole home SD distribution.

 

[KaptainRandom]

Think of the HopperJoey system as computer internet streaming.

The Hoppers contain all the tuners, 3 sat plus 1 optional ota for each Hopper.
The Hopper does all the tuning and recording.
Also think of the Hopper's tuners/dvr 'streaming' video out, networking via RG6 or wirelessly to Joeys or itself (think like there is a Joey built into the Hopper.

Think of the Joeys as very simple media players (client) on the RG6 or wireless network.
The Joeys requests and plays specific video stream from the Hopper. Joeys do not actually tune channels themselves, the Hoppers feed the single stream only.

The Hopper can stream any tuner or dvr to any of the Joeys and can stream an individual tuner to all of the Joeys at the same time.

This is a server/client network setup.

 

[Waterskier1]

Kaptain, I kinda figured that, but don't know how many tuners the hopper has, especially when you can record all the networks at prime time....that takes at least 4 tuners itself, but they must be doing it differently. Also, it is unclear which tuners are dedicated (if they are) to what type of recording. My point of reference is the 612 and 722, where the OTA tuner is in addition to the 4 dish sat tuners. And then the MOCA really throws a wrench into the system, since it can't coexist with OTA signals. That's why I was contemplating wifi joeys. But then they don't have tuners/recorders like the super joey does. So thought I'd post and see if anyone else has gone through the retrofit/upgrade installation and could provide ideas.

 

[thomasjk]

The Hopper has 3 tuners, one of which can be configured to record all 4 major networks on only one tuner. Add the OTA module and you have 4 tuners. The MOCA network will distribute everything to other locations that use a Joey. A Super joey can be added to supply 2 more tuners for a total 6 with OTA.

 

[bwexler]

You can think of the node like a splitter. It can be placed anywhere between the Sat Dish and the Hopper(s). A solo node can support ONE Hopper and several Joeys. A dual node can support two Hoppers and multiple Joeys. A solo node requires two coax cables from the Dish and a dual node requires 3 coax cables from the dish. Only one coax is needed from the node to each Hopper or Joey location. You can ad a tap (splitter) if you need more locations then the node can connect directly. A super Joey has some special wiring requirements, that are above my pay grade.
A Perfect system for a couple, who are TV junkies is two Hoppers with Sling and enough Joeys (at $7/month each) to support all your remaining TVs, Plus an OTA adapter on each Hopper. This would allow eight independent tuners, one of which can magically record the four major networks. then 8 TVs ( or 11 if 4 are watching the networks) can independently watch what they want live or any recordings on the Hoppers.
If the Hopper is recording it consumes one tuner for the four network channels and one tuner for each additional channel. The OTA tuner can only tune ONE channel at a time to watch or record.
Since I am getting as long winded as you, I will let you digest this and respond with more questions as you sort through the maze.

 

[harshness]

You can think of the node like a splitter.

No, you cannot. It is nothing like a splitter. If you play fast and loose with the terminology, it could be thought of as a special kind of combiner.

It is a stacker that puts enough bands on a single cable to feed three tuners.

 

[harshness]

The process of figuring this stuff out is better approached (as many systems are) by defining the goal and letting those who have some idea what is going on address the goal.

Building up and tearing down what-if scenarios based on trying to emulate some other system isn't particularly productive.

 

[Waterskier1]

Ok, then a "node" is a piece of hardware, independent of the existing dish antenna, and the hopper/joeys?

No, you cannot. It is nothing like a splitter. If you play fast and loose with the terminology, it could be thought of as a special kind of combiner.

It is a stacker that puts enough bands on a single cable to feed three tuners.