Charlie speaks..... Finally!!!

[iceondsom]

Churn happens when customers quit. Customers quit because they don't feel loyal to the company. Most folks don't have HD and don't care how many channels are out there. They just feel crapped on when they spend 30 minutes on the phone with someone who is ignorant of how their system works and can't help them. Throw in rudeness and stupid phone menus with talking computers and they just want to chuck it in and go to cable or Direct tv. I've been installing DNW for 5 years now and have been a customer that long. For the last 18 months or so the result of out sourcing has been bad. Most of these people aren't trained to do the job they need to do when they answer the phone and it is the fault of what ever big shot at DNW that is in charge. It is the same for all business, take care of your customers if you don't want "churn". I know you all know this, but I just had to get it off my chest.

E*'s churn is a result of two major factors. The first has to deal with their call centers. While no one likes speaking to an outsourced call center, 90% of E*'s calls are kept in house. The 10% that are outsourced are low-level, non-escalated issues like questions on how to program a remote control. The real problem was that E* got caught with their pants down in Q3 as they were short-staffed and call volume unexpectedly sky-rocketed. This led to long hold times and ticked off customers.

The second major contributor was the $100 Back Bonus promotion that ended August 15th. As you may recall, this promotion offered customers $10 bill credits each month for 10 months with AT100 or higher. Customers could receive an additional $10 credit each month if they also had HD programming. This offer of up to $200 in bill credits attracted a lot of promotion jumpers. Once they hit the last month of bill credits they disco'd.

E* learned their lesson and will never again offer a promo like that. Notice that all the goodies in the current promotion are tied to an 18-month agreement.

 

[ScoBuck]

Those are NOT the major factors cited by Echostar in their call yesterday - OR in their 10-Q.

So - its begs the question - do you believe Dish is NOT being honest in its SEC filings?

 

[RandallA]

Plus they've been doing the 18 months commitment for awhile now so this has nothing to do with the current state of the company.

"The second major contributor was the $100 Back Bonus promotion that ended August 15th. As you may recall, this promotion offered customers $10 bill credits each month for 10 months with AT100 or higher. Customers could receive an additional $10 credit each month if they also had HD programming. This offer of up to $200 in bill credits attracted a lot of promotion jumpers. Once they hit the last month of bill credits they disco'd."

 

[probinson]

Well, for you who have their locals in HD via E* or OTA, I'm sure it's not a big deal. For those of us who don't, it is a big deal.

Absolutely agree! I live in a hole, about 40 miles away from my local channels. I can get *one* CBS channel, if it's not raining, or cloudy, or foggy, or...

When I was shopping for a TV provider earlier this year, the availability of my local channels in HD was a HUGE consideration for me. That's why I initially, and reluctantly, went with Time Warner Cable. That was the ONLY way to get ALL of my HD locals since our Fox network doesn't have an HD OTA feed. It's only available in HD by a direct line to the 2 cable companies in the area.

However, after having 3 cable boxes crashing 6-8 times / day, I had to go somewhere else. Since no one else had my HD locals, the next consideration for me was hardware. And IMHO, the ViP622 blew D*'s box out of the water! That is why I ultimately chose E*.

So I say, bring on the HD locals (as long as they're in my market )

 

[KAB]

E*'s churn is a result of two major factors. The first has to deal with their call centers. While no one likes speaking to an outsourced call center, 90% of E*'s calls are kept in house. The 10% that are outsourced are low-level, non-escalated issues like questions on how to program a remote control. The real problem was that E* got caught with their pants down in Q3 as they were short-staffed and call volume unexpectedly sky-rocketed. This led to long hold times and ticked off customers.

The second major contributor was the $100 Back Bonus promotion that ended August 15th. As you may recall, this promotion offered customers $10 bill credits each month for 10 months with AT100 or higher. Customers could receive an additional $10 credit each month if they also had HD programming. This offer of up to $200 in bill credits attracted a lot of promotion jumpers. Once they hit the last month of bill credits they disco'd.

E* learned their lesson and will never again offer a promo like that. Notice that all the goodies in the current promotion are tied to an 18-month agreement.

I don't think so!

 

[skottey]

No doubt !!!! The typical end user thinks that when they make their $40-$100 monthly payment, that all that money goes to the provider. Hummmmmmmm.

Lets see.............with each channel having a cost, and all overhead, csr's, intallers, hardware, etc.................... the provider has to be breaking even after the first month right?

I don't think even the most naive subscriber thinks that $40-$100 is all profit to Dish. Everyone knows there is cost involved. The question is at what point they start making a profit, and if it isn't for 16 months, they need to fix their business model, because it ain't working so well for them.

 

[AT&TDishman]

Charlie's theme song: Manana, manana is good enough for me!!!

However, is it good enough for current and future subs?

 

[mattopia]

If it takes them 16 months to make a profit, than they should REQUIRE everyone to sign a 24 month contract, not just offer a non-required 18 month contract for a savings of $49.99. With 18 months they are only going to make 2 months profit off a customer if they bail after the contract. At least 24 months would give them 8 months of profit.

Then they'd be called DirecTV! It appears that D* no longer gives you any options to not have a contract. I don't do contracts, and E* is the only sat provider that would allow me to sign up with no commitment.

 

[iceondsom]

Those are NOT the major factors cited by Echostar in their call yesterday - OR in their 10-Q.

So - its begs the question - do you believe Dish is NOT being honest in its SEC filings?

The call center trouble falls under the umbrella of operational challenges. Promotion jumpers were mentioned too.

 

[rcdallas]

There you go Charlie, you heard it Dish is getting pretty stale ya'll are letting the grass grown beneath you feet.

Time to move out of ya'lls comfort zone !!!

 

[iceondsom]

Plus they've been doing the 18 months commitment for awhile now so this has nothing to do with the current state of the company. [\QUOTE]

The point is that to get the goodies (HBO & Cinemax free for 90 days, DishHD free for 6 mos.) you must sign up for the 18-month agreement. That is new and will continue.

 

[Stargazer]

Remember that "I Like 9" promotion that Dish Network had for the middle package about 5-6 years ago? I experienced the most chargebacks from Dish Network from this. This was the first time I was told by my distributor I owed THEM money, over $1,000. I refused to pay them telling them they would have to wait until I added more customers to make it break even. I never had so many nonpays in my life.

I think Dish Network is not as good of a value as it used to be due to all the b.s. fees. It really adds up.

 

[skottey]

Then they'd be called DirecTV! It appears that D* no longer gives you any options to not have a contract. I don't do contracts, and E* is the only sat provider that would allow me to sign up with no commitment.

I'm not on a contract either, but they won't let me lease a second 622 without $149 + 18 months. I am not going to do that and lock myself in, especially after all this talk about a big push of HD locals instead of HD nationals like I want. I may go Verizon FIOS when it comes to my neighborhood, and I am not going to be locked into Dish. Cable doesn't have me on a contract, and I am not getting on one with Dish. If they want to keep me around they need to keep me happy, not rope me in. But it looks like they are really pushing commitments now.

 

[ScoBuck]

The call center trouble falls under the umbrella of operational challenges. Promotion jumpers were mentioned too.

You said the 2 major factors were:
1)'The first has to deal with their call centers."
2)"The second major contributor was the $100 Back Bonus promotion that ended August 15th."

I am wondering how you know this as you state it as fact.

DISH stated the following:
We believe our subscriber churn rate has been and is likely to continue to be negatively impacted by a number of factors, including, but not limited to, (1)increased competition, (2)an increase in non-pay disconnects primarily resulting from the adverse economic conditions described above, (3)decreased customer satisfaction with our products and services resulting from operational inefficiencies, (4)continuing effects of customer commitment expirations, and (5)increases in the theft of our signal or our competitors’ signals.


Your number 2 is not mentioned, and your number 1 is PERHAPS a part of their number 3.

My point, it is not 2 simple things as you suggest, there are quite a few factors involved.

 

[iceondsom]

You said the 2 major factors were:
1)'The first has to deal with their call centers."
2)"The second major contributor was the $100 Back Bonus promotion that ended August 15th."

I am wondering how you know this as you state it as fact.

DISH stated the following:
We believe our subscriber churn rate has been and is likely to continue to be negatively impacted by a number of factors, including, but not limited to, (1)increased competition, (2)an increase in non-pay disconnects primarily resulting from the adverse economic conditions described above, (3)decreased customer satisfaction with our products and services resulting from operational inefficiencies, (4)continuing effects of customer commitment expirations, and (5)increases in the theft of our signal or our competitors’ signals.


Your number 2 is not mentioned, and your number 1 is PERHAPS a part of their number 3.

My point, it is not 2 simple things as you suggest, there are quite a few factors involved.

Of course there were more than 2 factors. The 2 I mentioned were major factors but I didn't mean to imply that such a complicated problem could be boiled down to only those two factors. Didn't think I needed to C&P the 10-Q and go over each and every one of them.

 

[Darrell]

Dish Subscriber Numbers !

Being a Dish network dealer since 1996 I'm not surprised with the subscriber numbers and the churn rate.

Ive seen this coming for a while, ever since Dish partnered with the Telecoms(ATT&T, Winstream, etc...) their quality of installs and customer service has gotten steadily worse

The Telecoms sign up new subscribers, then an installer from who knows where comes to install the dish. Most dont know how to even hook up a receiver to the tv with anything but RF or S-Video. One of our customers called Dish and upgraded to Dish HD , the installer they sent hooked up the receiver with an S-Video cable! He did tell the fellow that he may need a different cable and "They sell them at walmart"

Dish has abandoned the Small Dish Dealers who got them where they are, now all they care about is the Telecoms

They are reaping what they sowed!

 

[rcdallas]

What was the I like 9 promotion? That pick 9 different channels or somethin?

 

[rcdallas]

Being a Dish network dealer since 1996 I'm not surprised with the subscriber numbers and the churn rate.

Ive seen this coming for a while, ever since Dish partnered with the Telecoms(ATT&T, Winstream, etc...) their quality of installs and customer service has gotten steadily worse

The Telecoms sign up new subscribers, then an installer from who knows where comes to install the dish. Most dont know how to even hook up a receiver to the tv with anything but RF or S-Video. One of our customers called Dish and upgraded to Dish HD , the installer they sent hooked up the receiver with an S-Video cable! He did tell the fellow that he may need a different cable and "They sell them at walmart"

Dish has abandoned the Small Dish Dealers who got them where they are, now all they care about is the Telecoms

They are reaping what they sowed!

There's a definition that matches that...

Complacent

com·pla·cent Pronunciation[kuhm-pley-suhnt]

–adjective 1. pleased, esp. with oneself or one's merits, advantages, situation, etc., often without awareness of some potential danger or defect; self-satisfied: The voters are too complacent to change the government.

 

[pdxsam]

I may go Verizon FIOS when it comes to my neighborhood, and I am not going to be locked into Dish. Cable doesn't have me on a contract, and I am not getting on one with Dish. If they want to keep me around they need to keep me happy, not rope me in. But it looks like they are really pushing commitments now.

I believe FIos is requiring a 12 month commitment to secure a certain price point. I don't know what the difference is for the non commitment

 

[ScoBuck]

Of course there were more than 2 factors. The 2 I mentioned were major factors but I didn't mean to imply that such a complicated problem could be boiled down to only those two factors. Didn't think I needed to C&P the 10-Q and go over each and every one of them.

You said it was a result of 2 major factors, not many factors - I am only trying to broaden the issues to the many that there are.

No biggie, but that IS what you originally said.